R.I.P. Simferopol ACC
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
R.I.P. Simferopol ACC
Today one of the busiest ATC centres in Ukraine was closed after being stormed by russian military forces.
Air traffic service above that region is now partly provided from Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk ACCs.
All equipment was left for russian invaders....
Air traffic service above that region is now partly provided from Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk ACCs.
All equipment was left for russian invaders....
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Russia
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I really hate all that political BS happening in Ukraine these days, but being called an invader by you, guys, is more than offensive. I couldn't even imagine our people to be confronting each other. Wish to hear you on the air again as soon as possible.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Emel.OW on the 28-th of February 13 IL-76 with russian troops landed at military aerodrome close to Simferopol. They were flying without any FPL and at extremely low altitude, not to be seen by radars (but two of them squawked for few minutes with A/C during approach) Later russians got control of each aerodrome around Crimea and blocked ukrainian military units. First time when russians, armed with PKMS, entered UKFF tower, they prohibited Turkish flight to land.
So it is an INVASION. And don't be offended because of it. Ur president Putler started cold war.
So it is an INVASION. And don't be offended because of it. Ur president Putler started cold war.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Berlin/Germany
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and ???
some illegal U/S Drohns fly into other Countrys, shoot to civilians... Som military Fighters going into Russ Airspace .. (U2) ... som military Fighters going into other countries .. to shoot.. hey - lets the Ukraine and the Krim separate-- why not -- is not our Business to decide other Poeples way. The USA using capital punishment. The USA is not in a position to talk to the Poeple in Europe about any legal or illegal action.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Berlin/Germany
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The USA ist self-determined, an the the Ukraine also. What is the reason for the military presents near the Ukraine? USA has enough Problems himself. Guantanamo etc... Amy go home. The USA generated problems - in the financial - in the environment (deepwather Horizon), in the Nature (Monsanto) and more and more.....
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now we have cold war with Russia for Airspace above Crimea and Black Sea. During last years Uksatse (Ukrainian State Air Traffic Services Enterprise) invested in Simferopol center almost 50 mln euros. Russian State ATM Corporation got everything for free and issued NOTAM that since 04.04 they are going to take control of airspace (now it's controlled from Ukraine's centers in Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk).
Eurocontols reaction of Russian NOTAM:
AIM VALID 28/03/2014-31/03/2014 - RELEASED 23:10:01 28/03/2014
EUROCONTROL IS STRICTLY FOLLOWING ICAO CONVENTION ON
INTERNATIONAL CIVIL AVIATION AND WILL NOT RECOGNISE ANY
UNILATERAL DECLARATION OFAIR NAVIGATION SERVICE PROVISION OVER
ANY PART OF UKRAINIAN AIRSPACE OTHER THAN FROM THE UKRAINIAN
AUTHORITY.
A NUMBER OF ROUTES ARE CLOSED WIE-UFN AS WELL AS UKFF
(SIMFEROPOL) AND UKFB (SEVASTOPOL) AIRPORTS.
THE NETWORK MANAGER WILL:
- REJECT ALL FPLS FILED VIA THE CLOSED ROUTES AND ALL FPLS
DEP/DESTUKFF AND UKFB ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING NOTAMS ISSUED BY THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES.
Russia says that they don't give a f*k about Eurocontrol as "it's no longer Ukrainian airspace".
Eurocontols reaction of Russian NOTAM:
AIM VALID 28/03/2014-31/03/2014 - RELEASED 23:10:01 28/03/2014
EUROCONTROL IS STRICTLY FOLLOWING ICAO CONVENTION ON
INTERNATIONAL CIVIL AVIATION AND WILL NOT RECOGNISE ANY
UNILATERAL DECLARATION OFAIR NAVIGATION SERVICE PROVISION OVER
ANY PART OF UKRAINIAN AIRSPACE OTHER THAN FROM THE UKRAINIAN
AUTHORITY.
A NUMBER OF ROUTES ARE CLOSED WIE-UFN AS WELL AS UKFF
(SIMFEROPOL) AND UKFB (SEVASTOPOL) AIRPORTS.
THE NETWORK MANAGER WILL:
- REJECT ALL FPLS FILED VIA THE CLOSED ROUTES AND ALL FPLS
DEP/DESTUKFF AND UKFB ACCORDING TO THE FOLLOWING NOTAMS ISSUED BY THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES.
Russia says that they don't give a f*k about Eurocontrol as "it's no longer Ukrainian airspace".
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mauritius,soon or latter
Posts: 541
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know that Ukraina had no any real power to react towards situation with Krim.
Krim just ceased and join Russian federation. It is better of course, unless you are menager of western weapon company in which case your sales plan fall behind expectation.
It will be interesting to see how "international community" will raect now.
At one side, there is Ukraina. According to them, Krim is part of Ukraina so rensponsibility over airspace (control,management and everything else ) is theirs. Relevant international documents backed this.
On the other side, there is Russian federation, who now accepts Krim,incorporated in their constitution (and other laws ) so Russia has no other option than to provide service and accept rensposibility over airspace above their teritory. Strictly speaking there is no differrence between Novosibirsk , Vladivostok, and Krim. They must do it . Relevant international documents backed this.
You can't recognize Russia as a state (even more as a member of UN with all their rights in that institution ) without respecting their teritory. It is not possible to separate towns, regions etc, in that context. You recognize state or not.
As it is obvious both sides claim the same thing.At next level further question becomes more interesting: Who effectivelly controls airspace?
As the answer obvious nfc.
Altough russian aircraft aren't nothing especial, and it is very under question how russian pilots are trainned, how many aircraft is available, how the system works (or doesn't work ) they (russians ) still have enough cards in their hands.
Just a name it few: money,gas, oil, titanium, and if all those fail (air force will fail before that) thay still have nuclear waepon,. A lot of it. What is the bigger problem in that context? They don't have a problem to use it.
That is something that everybody (except Ukraininas ) knows. And that is the reason why nobody will question,directly, effective russian control of airspace above Krim. Whatever some EU birocrats say.
In their history, russians never loose their teritory forever. Some occupation happend, but loosing teritory is not their style.
Ukrainians should know it better. You lived with them.
if we returning to use of airspace ,my bet goes to,
Eurocontrol will closed that portion of airspace, until political solution reached.
Russian will incorporate airspace in their system.
there won't be direct flights over Krim,or landings/departures from these airports.
Russians will connect those airports with their airports, and will reduce (subside airfares ) prices for flying there.
It will bring more flights and more syetm and people will need for safe system functioning.
Than managers of western companies will spot "great opportunity" ,russians will pay , and more or less, Krim will become normal part of World airpace structure.
they will explain it, with : human rights, bussiness without borders, safety first, increasing customer satisfaction, etc.
That is the raeson why Russian say :
Eurocontrol? Who the f***
@TC Ukraina,
believe me, I saw simillar example with my eyes.
Krim just ceased and join Russian federation. It is better of course, unless you are menager of western weapon company in which case your sales plan fall behind expectation.
It will be interesting to see how "international community" will raect now.
At one side, there is Ukraina. According to them, Krim is part of Ukraina so rensponsibility over airspace (control,management and everything else ) is theirs. Relevant international documents backed this.
On the other side, there is Russian federation, who now accepts Krim,incorporated in their constitution (and other laws ) so Russia has no other option than to provide service and accept rensposibility over airspace above their teritory. Strictly speaking there is no differrence between Novosibirsk , Vladivostok, and Krim. They must do it
. Relevant international documents backed this. You can't recognize Russia as a state (even more as a member of UN with all their rights in that institution ) without respecting their teritory. It is not possible to separate towns, regions etc, in that context. You recognize state or not.
As it is obvious both sides claim the same thing.At next level further question becomes more interesting: Who effectivelly controls airspace?
As the answer obvious
nfc. Altough russian aircraft aren't nothing especial, and it is very under question how russian pilots are trainned, how many aircraft is available, how the system works (or doesn't work ) they (russians ) still have enough cards in their hands.
Just a name it few: money,gas, oil, titanium, and if all those fail (air force will fail before that) thay still have nuclear waepon,. A lot of it. What is the bigger problem in that context? They don't have a problem to use it.
That is something that everybody (except Ukraininas ) knows. And that is the reason why nobody will question,directly, effective russian control of airspace above Krim. Whatever some EU birocrats say.
In their history, russians never loose their teritory forever. Some occupation happend, but loosing teritory is not their style.
Ukrainians should know it better. You lived with them.
if we returning to use of airspace ,my bet goes to,
Eurocontrol will closed that portion of airspace, until political solution reached.
Russian will incorporate airspace in their system.
there won't be direct flights over Krim,or landings/departures from these airports.
Russians will connect those airports with their airports, and will reduce (subside airfares ) prices for flying there.
It will bring more flights and more syetm and people will need for safe system functioning.
Than managers of western companies will spot "great opportunity" ,russians will pay , and more or less, Krim will become normal part of World airpace structure.
they will explain it, with : human rights, bussiness without borders, safety first, increasing customer satisfaction, etc.
That is the raeson why Russian say :
Eurocontrol? Who the f***
@TC Ukraina,
believe me, I saw simillar example with my eyes.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
today was total mess in airspace above black Sea. Eurocontrol closed half of routes of ex-Simferopol FIR, and each traffic passing through conflicting zone were under control of TWO controllers (one from Odessa, another from Crimea) at same frequency, issuing DIFFERENT instructions in different languages. Controllers couldn't here each other, luckily there were no near-misses....
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Russia
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our company suggests us to have a Simferopol frequency on our 2nd box when flying in Odessa FIR. This is very similar to Ercan/Nicosia procedures, and I think we'll have the same situation for a long time since now. There are no detailed instructions at the moment, so any deviation like WX avoidance can make our life much more difficult 
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ukraine
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2 Emel.OW, Simferopol interferes on the same frequency as Odessa sector operates and also often calls on 121.5
Odessa also asks pilots to fill safety report upon arrival if they receive any instruction from "Simferopol control"
Odessa also asks pilots to fill safety report upon arrival if they receive any instruction from "Simferopol control"
Last edited by TC_Ukraine; 3rd Apr 2014 at 23:42.
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Russia
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The problem is that Odessa and Simferopol both have their own NOTAMS, telling us to comply only with their instructions. As far as Eurocontrol considers Russian NOTAM illegal, most non-Russian operators don't even take care of Simferopol ACC. As for us, we are between a rock and a hard place, and this situation doesn't really enhance flight safety.
It's not really like Ercan/Nicosia at all. Nicosia FIR issue notams stating that Nicosia is the only recognised controlling authority, and to call 10 mins before entering from VESAR etc with the new squawk assigned. Ercan actually do monitor Nicosia's frequency also. The situation in Cyprus, be it far from ideal, is manageable and not unsafe. It's called "chaos corner" for a reason though... I'm often amazed at the number of verbal bashings Nicosia ACC have to give to pilots that don't call 10 mins before entry. These guys must not read notams or route briefings. Mostly it's the airlines, usually Russian, and in very poor English.
Agreed, it does nothing for flight safety. Hope you guys get it sorted, and soon. Had great service from Simferopol ATC, and a great nightstop there once.
Agreed, it does nothing for flight safety. Hope you guys get it sorted, and soon. Had great service from Simferopol ATC, and a great nightstop there once.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Moldova
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ICAO EUROCONTROL and NATO are just watching on this all situation, no actions are taken.
safety first? no really ? money first !
read the ICAO yesterday press-realese , taking my words back about ICAO!
safety first? no really ? money first !
read the ICAO yesterday press-realese , taking my words back about ICAO!
Last edited by doc_exe; 16th Apr 2014 at 05:53.
