Ukraine Crisis 2014
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I still think the inactivity of the UK and the USA in reneging on their commitments to protect the sovereignty of the Ukraine will have far reaching consequences into the future.
To be honest I just wish the UK would stop putting their nose into these things and signing up as guarantors as if we were still a World power, we are not and haven't been for a long time, to put the UK forces into context of how small we have become military wise, the British forces that surrendered in Singapore during WW2 were comparable to the size of the three full time UK forces after the latest cuts come into effect.
But to get back to the far reaching consequences I mentioned.
In a world where the likes of Pakistan hold nuclear weapons and the fragility in that region, and those countries that aspire to them such as North Korea or Iran, the bargaining chip of assurances given by the USA etc have now been shown to be worthless rhetoric and as such not worth the paper they were written on, which country in their right mind would surrender their nuclear weapon capability now on an agreement from the US or others.
This must now also include none nuclear countries who have mutual defence agreements in place, they now know that they mean nothing, and so do the threats to those countries. And that is a consequence that will have far reaching effects into the future, and just made the world a more dangerous place..
Well that's my view.
To be honest I just wish the UK would stop putting their nose into these things and signing up as guarantors as if we were still a World power, we are not and haven't been for a long time, to put the UK forces into context of how small we have become military wise, the British forces that surrendered in Singapore during WW2 were comparable to the size of the three full time UK forces after the latest cuts come into effect.
But to get back to the far reaching consequences I mentioned.
In a world where the likes of Pakistan hold nuclear weapons and the fragility in that region, and those countries that aspire to them such as North Korea or Iran, the bargaining chip of assurances given by the USA etc have now been shown to be worthless rhetoric and as such not worth the paper they were written on, which country in their right mind would surrender their nuclear weapon capability now on an agreement from the US or others.
This must now also include none nuclear countries who have mutual defence agreements in place, they now know that they mean nothing, and so do the threats to those countries. And that is a consequence that will have far reaching effects into the future, and just made the world a more dangerous place..
Well that's my view.
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Ron Paul has no ability to lecture anyone about anything, except perhaps having children and grandchildren that are even less impressive than he is.
Has he accidentally wandered into another stopped-clock moment regarding obtaining legal justification for war? It would be interesting if he's accepted that the UN is more real than the tooth fairy.
Has he accidentally wandered into another stopped-clock moment regarding obtaining legal justification for war? It would be interesting if he's accepted that the UN is more real than the tooth fairy.
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I still think the inactivity of the UK and the USA in reneging on their commitments to protect the sovereignty of the Ukraine will have far reaching consequences into the future.
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Remind me; was the recently deposed Government democratically elected? Is the interim boss fellah a democratically appointed Head of State? I only ask because I think that it's rather important to know and understand these things.
A riot is an ugly thing.
A riot is an ugly thing.
1994 security guarantee for Ukraine as simply a con to get them to give up their nukes,
It may also be as you say.
I don't pretend to know what went on behind the scenes.
A riot is an ugly thing.
(Young Frankenstein: Inspector Kemp: A riot is an ungly thing... undt, I tink, that it is chust about time ve had vun. )
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Crisis, what crisis? It is now page 17 in the Torygraph under World News, ie nothing to do with us.
Remind me; was the recently deposed Government democratically elected? Is the interim boss fellah a democratically appointed Head of State? I only ask because I think that it's rather important to know and understand these things.
In essence it appears that the timing of specific events may have a role in whether it was legal or not.
the places you mention are on the doorstep of Russia, locations Russia is
justified in being involved in.
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12:27:
Ukrainian border guards say Russia now has 30,000 soldiers inside Crimea. Serhiy Stakhov, an aide to the head of the border guards service, tells Reuters the figure is an estimate and includes both troops who arrived since last week and Russia's Black Sea Fleet, permanently based in the Crimean port of Sevastopol
Ukrainian border guards say Russia now has 30,000 soldiers inside Crimea. Serhiy Stakhov, an aide to the head of the border guards service, tells Reuters the figure is an estimate and includes both troops who arrived since last week and Russia's Black Sea Fleet, permanently based in the Crimean port of Sevastopol
which is nigh on the total RAF strength
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A reaction from USA.
US sends fighter jets to Baltic and boosts pressure on Putin over Ukraine - Telegraph
Some sort of visible reaction from POTUS. F15 and F16 aircraft deploy to Poland.
Piss poor-this doesn't achieve anything except prove how off the pace POTUS is. Everyone entirely missed the opportunity before the Russian deployment.
2 cents and all its worth, like everyone else.
Some sort of visible reaction from POTUS. F15 and F16 aircraft deploy to Poland.
Piss poor-this doesn't achieve anything except prove how off the pace POTUS is. Everyone entirely missed the opportunity before the Russian deployment.
2 cents and all its worth, like everyone else.
In re net worth and Putin's watch.
Uh, how is that watch worth $150,000?
Best I can guess, it is a black leather strapped version of this watch. Granted, I can't get that good of a look at it. Even so, I don't get the whole "$25,000 watch" thing, but then I don't have a net worth in nine figures. 
While I suspect he's got a bit of coin stashed away, (8, 9, 10 figures, serious money) the article in the link appears to be a bit sensationalist, and I suspect inaccurate. What does seem to be true is that he's not reporting quite as transparently as our own president does.
Uh, how is that watch worth $150,000?
Best I can guess, it is a black leather strapped version of this watch. Granted, I can't get that good of a look at it. Even so, I don't get the whole "$25,000 watch" thing, but then I don't have a net worth in nine figures. While I suspect he's got a bit of coin stashed away, (8, 9, 10 figures, serious money) the article in the link appears to be a bit sensationalist, and I suspect inaccurate. What does seem to be true is that he's not reporting quite as transparently as our own president does.
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That's good news for the future of the world - Patek Philippe's ads say that you don't own one of their watches, you just look after it for future generations.
I've seen less tasteful bling hanging off felons.
I've seen less tasteful bling hanging off felons.
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"All power comes out of the barrel of a gun". (reputedly: Chairman Mao).
Might has always been Right, and ever will be so.
Mr Putin is welcome to his watch. I have a little quartz clock (£2.50) on my bedside table. It keeps better time than the Longines on my wrist has ever done. For this I paid (70 years ago), in rupees, the present-day equivalent of £600.
Might has always been Right, and ever will be so.
Mr Putin is welcome to his watch. I have a little quartz clock (£2.50) on my bedside table. It keeps better time than the Longines on my wrist has ever done. For this I paid (70 years ago), in rupees, the present-day equivalent of £600.
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11 days later is a long time between comment on threads...
Putin's won then? Russia wins. Job done?
Got the Crimea back (from the Ukraine) - tick.
Ensured security of its southern flank (nautically at least) - tick.
Endured nothing further than a vocal response from the "west" -tick.
Demonstrated that President Potus Bam Bam looks even more miniscule, less of a world leader than even I imagined (his level of response has been truly tiny - on the UK media at least) - tick.
Raised Russian esteem and morale - tick.
There were a few rumblings today in the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper about it all, but this isn't 1968, or 1979 or 1981.
Is it "job done"?
Reading back to the start of the thread 20th Feb I was prophesying full on Ukrainian civil war. This hasn't happened, since Russia's intervention things have been rather more peaceful. Well I was totally wrong to date.
Is it possible for anyone on Prune to give Russia and Putin any credit, at all?
Got the Crimea back (from the Ukraine) - tick.
Ensured security of its southern flank (nautically at least) - tick.
Endured nothing further than a vocal response from the "west" -tick.
Demonstrated that President Potus Bam Bam looks even more miniscule, less of a world leader than even I imagined (his level of response has been truly tiny - on the UK media at least) - tick.
Raised Russian esteem and morale - tick.
There were a few rumblings today in the UK's Daily Telegraph newspaper about it all, but this isn't 1968, or 1979 or 1981.
Is it "job done"?
Reading back to the start of the thread 20th Feb I was prophesying full on Ukrainian civil war. This hasn't happened, since Russia's intervention things have been rather more peaceful. Well I was totally wrong to date.
Is it possible for anyone on Prune to give Russia and Putin any credit, at all?
Last edited by Hangarshuffle; 18th Mar 2014 at 21:12.
Some of had a Mod holiday
I do wonder, however, if the Ukranians haven't given themselves a better guarantee of never having a pro-Russian president again? A price to be paid for slicing off some of the electorate?
No war, Putins's true colours demonstrated to the world. The reasons to get over the dependence on gas and oil made completely obvious to the EU electorate and some Europeans thinking twice about defence cuts. It should be a bit easier to convince people to pay for wind farms and nuclear plants and to accept fracking now
With luck there will be a new, mostly intact, EU member or at least EEA member and the chance of a lot of economic development for the people living in it. The poor fellows left inside their Russian ghetto will be thinking about changing their citizenship and moving out to wave their flags somewhere else.
Perhaps NATO will be able to start using Antonovs? I am sure that calculations along these lines have been done already hence the lack of response.
No war, Putins's true colours demonstrated to the world. The reasons to get over the dependence on gas and oil made completely obvious to the EU electorate and some Europeans thinking twice about defence cuts. It should be a bit easier to convince people to pay for wind farms and nuclear plants and to accept fracking now
With luck there will be a new, mostly intact, EU member or at least EEA member and the chance of a lot of economic development for the people living in it. The poor fellows left inside their Russian ghetto will be thinking about changing their citizenship and moving out to wave their flags somewhere else.
Perhaps NATO will be able to start using Antonovs? I am sure that calculations along these lines have been done already hence the lack of response.