100 pilot's sick in EK A/C on ground.. LACK OF CREW!!!
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ManaDubai,
As you are obviously a management type and as you are endeavoring to at least post on here in a coherent manner, I will try to reply likewise:
As others have pointed out, the general mood of the pilots at Emirates as evidenced here has not come out of thin air but is the result of a number of actions taken by the company. I would very much like you to respond to these particular points if you can.
1. Mine and other contracts specifically says that Emirates will pay my water and electric bills. It does not say that it will only pay part or up to a certain amount. This is in my contract. Where I come from, to do otherwise is termed a "breach of contract" and is illegal. To add insult to injury, we were not told that this was because time were tough and that we all had to tighten our belts. No, this was for the environment.
2. Mine and other contracts specifically state that I am entitled to 42 days of leave a year yet I have been told that I am really "only entitled to 30 days." Again, that little old thing called a contract comes to mind.
3. When pilots interviewed here, they were shown a certain standard of accommodation and assured that the policy was for a married pilot with children would be provided with a villa. When they showed up, some with as many as 4-5 children were given small 2 bedroom apartments as temporary accommodation. I guess the term temporary is relative as for some it stretched beyond 2 years. Contractual? Perhaps not but where I come from it's called bait and switch and generally refers to the actions of those known as con men and thieves.
4. When those same pilots interviewed here (when the company was fairly desperate for pilots), they were given the criteria for advancement. Many based their decision to move their families thousands of miles away from home on those criteria. When it suited the company, those same criteria were changed, severely disadvantaging the future earning potential of those pilots and their families. Again, contractual - no but the word sleazy comes to mind.
5. Finally for now, lets talk about fatigue. There is not a reputable airline in the world that is flying their pilots the amount of hours and across the numbers of time zones that Emirates is. 94 hours average and most of the line pilots I know are routinely flying trips to the U.S. and Australia in the same month. Now, you don't appear to be a pilot so I'll make this simple for you. You would be wiped out flying as a passenger that much through that many time zones, yet we are required to work to some of the most arcane and unrealistic rules in this or any other industry. Now as you say, a better forum would be for us to take our concerns to our managers. Many of us have tried that and have been rebuffed at every turn. The last time I saw someone bring it up, our fearless leader launched into a speech about us being at the forefront of fatigue management and that other airlines were following our lead. Let's think about this for a second - he didn't even say there was no fatigue, just that we were "managing it". A medical definition of fatigue is:
Definition
Fatigue is physical and/or mental exhaustion that can be triggered by stress, medication, overwork, or mental and physical illness or disease.
Description
Everyone experiences fatigue occasionally. It is the body's way of signaling its need for rest and sleep. But when fatigue becomes a persistent feeling of tiredness or exhaustion that goes beyond normal sleepiness, it is usually a sign that something more serious is amiss.
Physically, fatigue is characterized by a profound lack of energy, feelings of muscle weakness, and slowed movements or central nervous system reactions. Fatigue can also trigger serious mental exhaustion. Persistent fatigue can cause a lack of mental clarity (or feeling of mental "fuzziness"), difficulty concentrating, and in some cases, memory loss.
This is what we are managing. To be clear, to be fatigued is to be impaired. Do you want your flight crew to be impaired when something goes wrong, or when the weather is poor? This issue has been brought to this company's attention numerous times yet has been completely and utterly ignored.
I could go on but I would really like to see your responses to these 5 points. I won't even go into the fact that the company holds the passports of employees below a certain grade, in violation of UAE law. (Oh, I guess I just did).
The reason that the company is having a difficult time recruiting and retaining pilots is because of their actions. If you or I behaved in the ways described, we would be known as someone who does not keep their word and who is not to be trusted. That is the crux of Emirates problem and why you read the types of contributions that you have bemoaned.
As you are obviously a management type and as you are endeavoring to at least post on here in a coherent manner, I will try to reply likewise:
As others have pointed out, the general mood of the pilots at Emirates as evidenced here has not come out of thin air but is the result of a number of actions taken by the company. I would very much like you to respond to these particular points if you can.
1. Mine and other contracts specifically says that Emirates will pay my water and electric bills. It does not say that it will only pay part or up to a certain amount. This is in my contract. Where I come from, to do otherwise is termed a "breach of contract" and is illegal. To add insult to injury, we were not told that this was because time were tough and that we all had to tighten our belts. No, this was for the environment.
2. Mine and other contracts specifically state that I am entitled to 42 days of leave a year yet I have been told that I am really "only entitled to 30 days." Again, that little old thing called a contract comes to mind.
3. When pilots interviewed here, they were shown a certain standard of accommodation and assured that the policy was for a married pilot with children would be provided with a villa. When they showed up, some with as many as 4-5 children were given small 2 bedroom apartments as temporary accommodation. I guess the term temporary is relative as for some it stretched beyond 2 years. Contractual? Perhaps not but where I come from it's called bait and switch and generally refers to the actions of those known as con men and thieves.
4. When those same pilots interviewed here (when the company was fairly desperate for pilots), they were given the criteria for advancement. Many based their decision to move their families thousands of miles away from home on those criteria. When it suited the company, those same criteria were changed, severely disadvantaging the future earning potential of those pilots and their families. Again, contractual - no but the word sleazy comes to mind.
5. Finally for now, lets talk about fatigue. There is not a reputable airline in the world that is flying their pilots the amount of hours and across the numbers of time zones that Emirates is. 94 hours average and most of the line pilots I know are routinely flying trips to the U.S. and Australia in the same month. Now, you don't appear to be a pilot so I'll make this simple for you. You would be wiped out flying as a passenger that much through that many time zones, yet we are required to work to some of the most arcane and unrealistic rules in this or any other industry. Now as you say, a better forum would be for us to take our concerns to our managers. Many of us have tried that and have been rebuffed at every turn. The last time I saw someone bring it up, our fearless leader launched into a speech about us being at the forefront of fatigue management and that other airlines were following our lead. Let's think about this for a second - he didn't even say there was no fatigue, just that we were "managing it". A medical definition of fatigue is:
Definition
Fatigue is physical and/or mental exhaustion that can be triggered by stress, medication, overwork, or mental and physical illness or disease.
Description
Everyone experiences fatigue occasionally. It is the body's way of signaling its need for rest and sleep. But when fatigue becomes a persistent feeling of tiredness or exhaustion that goes beyond normal sleepiness, it is usually a sign that something more serious is amiss.
Physically, fatigue is characterized by a profound lack of energy, feelings of muscle weakness, and slowed movements or central nervous system reactions. Fatigue can also trigger serious mental exhaustion. Persistent fatigue can cause a lack of mental clarity (or feeling of mental "fuzziness"), difficulty concentrating, and in some cases, memory loss.
This is what we are managing. To be clear, to be fatigued is to be impaired. Do you want your flight crew to be impaired when something goes wrong, or when the weather is poor? This issue has been brought to this company's attention numerous times yet has been completely and utterly ignored.
I could go on but I would really like to see your responses to these 5 points. I won't even go into the fact that the company holds the passports of employees below a certain grade, in violation of UAE law. (Oh, I guess I just did).
The reason that the company is having a difficult time recruiting and retaining pilots is because of their actions. If you or I behaved in the ways described, we would be known as someone who does not keep their word and who is not to be trusted. That is the crux of Emirates problem and why you read the types of contributions that you have bemoaned.
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Read Mana's last post very closely. He/she is either working daily in EGHQ, has worked there or dearly wants to be. His buzz words, his sentences are clearly those of a management prince.
Now he may be getting quite a chuckle out of all this, seeing how many are being wound up. His musings are definitely Management 101. He doesn't speak of the realities of flying the line at 95 hours and what it does to family life here. As I have said numerous times before, this is all from an airline that has not lost one red dirham in the course of operations.
Let's look at some realities.....if this airline is in such dire straights as Mana suggests. Perhaps some non cost items to blunt the pain. Jumpseat comes to mind. What's the cost to management other than control. Why originally were we told we could not have more than 4 days off in a row (now 7)? What does it matter if the hours and work is being flown? Why just one ALT a year for relatively new employees...cost to the company? Negligible.
Profit for shareholders? Well yes, but who are the shareholders. And Mana since you are so subscribed to being part of some management somewhere, take a look through the Jan-Feb Harvard Business review www.hbr.org and look for an article on how companies have failed by adhereing to that strategy. Companies who look to treat customers and employees as there main thrust have faired way better than those that adhere to the shareholder (re. Jack Welch) is king theory.
Your youth and wannabe attitude shows through with your manifesto straight from the handbook. But we will forgive you when you have been hosed by management after management, saying the same things over and over again around the world. Difference here, ZERO RECOURSE.
Put things back as they were as short as two years ago with perhaps a few changes for the company and you will find a pilot group falling all over themselves to be proud and assist this company in any way they can. Who benefits? Customers, employees and guess what "shareholders". Leave things as they are, planes will be parked because crews run out of time and can't continue at a 90+ hour months, interview sessions will continue to lack participants, and families will continue to suffer as the bread winner of the household is absent either in body or mind for most of the month. It is not the fault of the pilots that the above is happening and it's not the fault of the postings here. So whose fault is it that these attitudes have evolved over a very short period of time. Is EK the worst of the lot, by no means. Doesn't make it right. Could it be the best.....IMHO it has been and could be again. But not on the course you prescribe.
Now he may be getting quite a chuckle out of all this, seeing how many are being wound up. His musings are definitely Management 101. He doesn't speak of the realities of flying the line at 95 hours and what it does to family life here. As I have said numerous times before, this is all from an airline that has not lost one red dirham in the course of operations.
Let's look at some realities.....if this airline is in such dire straights as Mana suggests. Perhaps some non cost items to blunt the pain. Jumpseat comes to mind. What's the cost to management other than control. Why originally were we told we could not have more than 4 days off in a row (now 7)? What does it matter if the hours and work is being flown? Why just one ALT a year for relatively new employees...cost to the company? Negligible.
Profit for shareholders? Well yes, but who are the shareholders. And Mana since you are so subscribed to being part of some management somewhere, take a look through the Jan-Feb Harvard Business review www.hbr.org and look for an article on how companies have failed by adhereing to that strategy. Companies who look to treat customers and employees as there main thrust have faired way better than those that adhere to the shareholder (re. Jack Welch) is king theory.
Your youth and wannabe attitude shows through with your manifesto straight from the handbook. But we will forgive you when you have been hosed by management after management, saying the same things over and over again around the world. Difference here, ZERO RECOURSE.
Put things back as they were as short as two years ago with perhaps a few changes for the company and you will find a pilot group falling all over themselves to be proud and assist this company in any way they can. Who benefits? Customers, employees and guess what "shareholders". Leave things as they are, planes will be parked because crews run out of time and can't continue at a 90+ hour months, interview sessions will continue to lack participants, and families will continue to suffer as the bread winner of the household is absent either in body or mind for most of the month. It is not the fault of the pilots that the above is happening and it's not the fault of the postings here. So whose fault is it that these attitudes have evolved over a very short period of time. Is EK the worst of the lot, by no means. Doesn't make it right. Could it be the best.....IMHO it has been and could be again. But not on the course you prescribe.
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Mana
Nobody that I have spoken to wants Emirates to do badly. All of our financial futures, while we remain in Dubai, are tied to the company's success so please quit looking for the easy excuse in the a few bad apples. I can also tell you that in the 25 years that I have worked in this industry I have never been treated with such disrespect. To say "if you don't like it, leave", is to close your eyes to the enormous professional commitment that every pilot in this company has made when they move to Dubai.
Quoting UAE Labour Law is a VERY slippery slope. There are many work conditions that are stipulated that Emirates does not comply with like to overtime pay and working at night to name a few. You cannot apply some of the rules and then expect to be exempt from others. You should be versed on all of it before you start quoting any of it. Air Arabia doesn't pay extra for night flying because they're nice guys but because they are following UAE Labour Law....!!
As far as what's being said on this forum being inaccurate and untrue, I think you are being selective yet again. Would the same be said of the continuous positive comments that were found on his very forum between 4-10 years ago. This site and the pilots who posted here have not vanished so something else must have certainly changed.
I would suggest that all the management who have an interest and an ablility to return Emirates to its former level of respect in the airline community take a long inward look at the scorched earth policies of the last number of years and address the real and present problems that exist within OUR company. Morale may not present a flight safety risk as stated by the HORSE but it does cause long term damage to the employer-employee relationship. Time to put away your egos and stop worrying about saving face. We are all waiting for some positive leadership instead of more threats and intimidation. I would also submit that your window of opportunity is closing very quickly and the time to act is before the world economy goes into full recovery because if these conditions remain wen it does there will be alot of unfilled airplanes baking on the ramp and you will only have yourselves to blame.
Nobody that I have spoken to wants Emirates to do badly. All of our financial futures, while we remain in Dubai, are tied to the company's success so please quit looking for the easy excuse in the a few bad apples. I can also tell you that in the 25 years that I have worked in this industry I have never been treated with such disrespect. To say "if you don't like it, leave", is to close your eyes to the enormous professional commitment that every pilot in this company has made when they move to Dubai.
Quoting UAE Labour Law is a VERY slippery slope. There are many work conditions that are stipulated that Emirates does not comply with like to overtime pay and working at night to name a few. You cannot apply some of the rules and then expect to be exempt from others. You should be versed on all of it before you start quoting any of it. Air Arabia doesn't pay extra for night flying because they're nice guys but because they are following UAE Labour Law....!!
As far as what's being said on this forum being inaccurate and untrue, I think you are being selective yet again. Would the same be said of the continuous positive comments that were found on his very forum between 4-10 years ago. This site and the pilots who posted here have not vanished so something else must have certainly changed.
I would suggest that all the management who have an interest and an ablility to return Emirates to its former level of respect in the airline community take a long inward look at the scorched earth policies of the last number of years and address the real and present problems that exist within OUR company. Morale may not present a flight safety risk as stated by the HORSE but it does cause long term damage to the employer-employee relationship. Time to put away your egos and stop worrying about saving face. We are all waiting for some positive leadership instead of more threats and intimidation. I would also submit that your window of opportunity is closing very quickly and the time to act is before the world economy goes into full recovery because if these conditions remain wen it does there will be alot of unfilled airplanes baking on the ramp and you will only have yourselves to blame.
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I once again find it astonishing that when an individual speaks out opinions that aren’t shared by the majority on this forum the answer from most of you is angry and irrational responses.
As you put it yourself you are highly educated and intelligent people. Then you should also be able to discuss your disagreements in an educated and intelligent way.
I do understand that the utilities cap is inconvenient for those few of you who have a consumption that is above the new limit. This does however not mean that it is a breach of your contract. Your contract states that "The Company will pay rent, tax, all relevant cooking gas, electricity and water charges". From a legal point of view relevant refers to normal consumption in the accommodation you are placed, and excessive luxury use is not covered by the contract. With the new cap EK has only formalized what was in the contract all the time, that only relevant consumption is covered. This view is shared by UAE lawyers and as a result not a contract breach.
Most of you were hired to EK when the world economy was booming, and Dubai was one of the hotspots on the globe. While Dubai's future still looks bright, there is no doubt in the fact that Dubai has severe challenges that needs to be overcome. It’s of course unfortunate that some employees feel that they haven't got everything they thought they would when signing up for the company. EK try its best to live up to everyone’s high expectations, but in the business climate that has existed the last years that has been and still is difficult at times. As you have stated yourself these complaints is not a breach of contract, and therefore not something that you can hold EK accountable.
As stated earlier EK understands that it needs to recruit more staff to create more flexibility and ensure further growth, and is as a result of this currently hiring new pilots, cabin crew and so on. EKs management is aware of that the current backup is thin and is taking measures to improve. It is every EK employee’s job and duty to do our best effort to ensure that the A/C is on route. EK is in the business of moving people, and if we cannot do that in a good and flawless manner we will no longer have a business to work at, much less talk negative about in internet forums. Your poor attitude and apparent unwillingness to help the company through a difficult time will not make things better.
EK is in their recruitment work not trying to oversell what we can offer, and wants to create a realistic image of how life at EK will be. Every day EK receives new highly qualified applications for different positions from all over the world which shows that what EK can offer is good enough and competitive enough to attract the new staff required to overcome current challenges and ensure further growth. EK is not heaven, but it’s certainly not hell either, and I think it’s sad that so many of you have such lack of respect for your own company and colleagues that you want to drag it into the mud through this forum.
As you put it yourself you are highly educated and intelligent people. Then you should also be able to discuss your disagreements in an educated and intelligent way.
I do understand that the utilities cap is inconvenient for those few of you who have a consumption that is above the new limit. This does however not mean that it is a breach of your contract. Your contract states that "The Company will pay rent, tax, all relevant cooking gas, electricity and water charges". From a legal point of view relevant refers to normal consumption in the accommodation you are placed, and excessive luxury use is not covered by the contract. With the new cap EK has only formalized what was in the contract all the time, that only relevant consumption is covered. This view is shared by UAE lawyers and as a result not a contract breach.
Most of you were hired to EK when the world economy was booming, and Dubai was one of the hotspots on the globe. While Dubai's future still looks bright, there is no doubt in the fact that Dubai has severe challenges that needs to be overcome. It’s of course unfortunate that some employees feel that they haven't got everything they thought they would when signing up for the company. EK try its best to live up to everyone’s high expectations, but in the business climate that has existed the last years that has been and still is difficult at times. As you have stated yourself these complaints is not a breach of contract, and therefore not something that you can hold EK accountable.
As stated earlier EK understands that it needs to recruit more staff to create more flexibility and ensure further growth, and is as a result of this currently hiring new pilots, cabin crew and so on. EKs management is aware of that the current backup is thin and is taking measures to improve. It is every EK employee’s job and duty to do our best effort to ensure that the A/C is on route. EK is in the business of moving people, and if we cannot do that in a good and flawless manner we will no longer have a business to work at, much less talk negative about in internet forums. Your poor attitude and apparent unwillingness to help the company through a difficult time will not make things better.
EK is in their recruitment work not trying to oversell what we can offer, and wants to create a realistic image of how life at EK will be. Every day EK receives new highly qualified applications for different positions from all over the world which shows that what EK can offer is good enough and competitive enough to attract the new staff required to overcome current challenges and ensure further growth. EK is not heaven, but it’s certainly not hell either, and I think it’s sad that so many of you have such lack of respect for your own company and colleagues that you want to drag it into the mud through this forum.
Good on you Mana,
EK is at the brink, I believe Uncle Maurice has said we will only make $1billion this year. How will we cope.
I do hope all the pilots and other employees that have to dish out money to pay for their DEWA bill will be noted in the final financial report 2009/2010.
Our min block hour pay, our reserve pay, our AD pay, our SIM pay, our pay for leave days were all removed because the new big cheese thought we were having too many days off, and started rostering AD instead of days off. Funny thing was we had already flown max hours and could not be used, so these extra AD turned into 3.5hrs extra over time. Well who would have guessed after several months of this, the grand poobah would discover that his great idea was costing the company money!!!! Easily fixed by the 15% pay neutral pay cut. Pilots were the only group in the company to take a pay cut then, Dec 2003. Just we were the only group that took a pay cut in 2009. So feel proud to be part of that elite group.
Luckily the flight ops management stood up for the pilot group....oh wait there, no they didn't. Just as they have never stood up for the pilot group at any time in the past decade. When you listen to TCAS waste people's time at pilot wash up meetings declaring to one and all that all the bad decisions are made by someone far higher than himself, you wonder why he is still on the payroll, as he seems to do nothing. I have been to wash ups when ED talks, but have no clue what he was trying to say, but feel proud that EK was an equal opportunity employer (anyone remember the story about using NBO as the alternate for JNB? Once again ED proving what a well traveled and smart fella he is!!!).
You reap what you sow. Or so middle to upper middle managers (known fondly as muppets) are discovering at the moment. But its not of course their fault, but rather the fault of anyone who dares say what happens on PPRUNE. Just imagine what would happen if VOIP became legal!!!!
The Don
EK is at the brink, I believe Uncle Maurice has said we will only make $1billion this year. How will we cope.
I do hope all the pilots and other employees that have to dish out money to pay for their DEWA bill will be noted in the final financial report 2009/2010.
Our min block hour pay, our reserve pay, our AD pay, our SIM pay, our pay for leave days were all removed because the new big cheese thought we were having too many days off, and started rostering AD instead of days off. Funny thing was we had already flown max hours and could not be used, so these extra AD turned into 3.5hrs extra over time. Well who would have guessed after several months of this, the grand poobah would discover that his great idea was costing the company money!!!! Easily fixed by the 15% pay neutral pay cut. Pilots were the only group in the company to take a pay cut then, Dec 2003. Just we were the only group that took a pay cut in 2009. So feel proud to be part of that elite group.
Luckily the flight ops management stood up for the pilot group....oh wait there, no they didn't. Just as they have never stood up for the pilot group at any time in the past decade. When you listen to TCAS waste people's time at pilot wash up meetings declaring to one and all that all the bad decisions are made by someone far higher than himself, you wonder why he is still on the payroll, as he seems to do nothing. I have been to wash ups when ED talks, but have no clue what he was trying to say, but feel proud that EK was an equal opportunity employer (anyone remember the story about using NBO as the alternate for JNB? Once again ED proving what a well traveled and smart fella he is!!!).
You reap what you sow. Or so middle to upper middle managers (known fondly as muppets) are discovering at the moment. But its not of course their fault, but rather the fault of anyone who dares say what happens on PPRUNE. Just imagine what would happen if VOIP became legal!!!!
The Don
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Mana, we really appreciate your posting here. Seriously, how else would we know what the talking points are for management? And son, you just don't get it. And that's the problem in a nut shell, nobody seems to get it.
Let's rehash a few incidents over the last year, and please explain to us not so fortunate to have your insight into the perspective of EGHQ. How did firing a TRI (that's a training pilot) and a pilot UNDER training for making an honest mistake, not causing ANY problems from their mistake, conducive to pilot trusting of management. Along those lines, the same goes for firing a pilot for taking a picture of his crew (PR pix done all the time) outside of the aircraft. Old news I know, but still sits there like a five day rotten egg. How about the decision to limit our days off, no matter how many hours we fly. What has that got to do with the company's ability to make profits? Please explain that to us novice managers.
Want to talk law? Any court of law (maybe not around here) deems past practices as contractual. As you so rightly state, relevant usage. Please, my friend, define relevant. What is relevant for one villa is not for another, given age, building quality etc. But remember, it was not to save the company money, it was to help the enviornment. What about those in flats? I guess their usage doesn't harm the enviornment.
Others have spoken about fatigue. As you may or may not know, we are supposed to NOT fly when fatigued. We are to say, I'm too tired/fatigued to operate this flight to my utmost ability. Want to guess how many flights would take off if we adhered to that verbatim? Want to guess how long that pilot will have a job if he did that down route and there was not alternatives for the passengers or no alternative to find another pilot?
Finally, it has all been said before and before. But you have not addressed ONE issue that has been brought to your attention other than your silly reference to "relevant" charges for utilities. And explain to me how this is not a breach of our contracts......opting out of accommodations to rent and getting paid an allowance. GONE. Sure it helps the company but it was contractual. No "relevant" clause in that one.
So instead of your Management 101 talking points, why not engage in a dialogue about the firings, the fatigue, the contractual breaches etc. We don't want you to disappear, but you seem to have a management mindset and I guess we just need to "get it". Certainly you don't.
Just rereading your post you say that the offerings at EK are "good enough" to attract new recruits. Any and every company can attract new recruits because new joiners come to any coorporation to improve their lot in life. But one key to a great company is how to retain the people that have built the company. So why, my friend, are we short staffed in many departments, especially pilots? Are those in charge so inept that they, one, don't know how to retain personnel, or two, they could not see the shortage coming? Or do they not care about retaining good personnel since most are not UAE nationals. EK does an unbelievable PR job to the general public (and to you obviously), but the pilot ranks are slowly thinning and "recruits" are not there as they once were. Ask yourself, my friend, why? Please, since you have a knack for managementspeak, address some of these and other postings from above so we mere minions can understand.
Let's rehash a few incidents over the last year, and please explain to us not so fortunate to have your insight into the perspective of EGHQ. How did firing a TRI (that's a training pilot) and a pilot UNDER training for making an honest mistake, not causing ANY problems from their mistake, conducive to pilot trusting of management. Along those lines, the same goes for firing a pilot for taking a picture of his crew (PR pix done all the time) outside of the aircraft. Old news I know, but still sits there like a five day rotten egg. How about the decision to limit our days off, no matter how many hours we fly. What has that got to do with the company's ability to make profits? Please explain that to us novice managers.
Want to talk law? Any court of law (maybe not around here) deems past practices as contractual. As you so rightly state, relevant usage. Please, my friend, define relevant. What is relevant for one villa is not for another, given age, building quality etc. But remember, it was not to save the company money, it was to help the enviornment. What about those in flats? I guess their usage doesn't harm the enviornment.
Others have spoken about fatigue. As you may or may not know, we are supposed to NOT fly when fatigued. We are to say, I'm too tired/fatigued to operate this flight to my utmost ability. Want to guess how many flights would take off if we adhered to that verbatim? Want to guess how long that pilot will have a job if he did that down route and there was not alternatives for the passengers or no alternative to find another pilot?
Finally, it has all been said before and before. But you have not addressed ONE issue that has been brought to your attention other than your silly reference to "relevant" charges for utilities. And explain to me how this is not a breach of our contracts......opting out of accommodations to rent and getting paid an allowance. GONE. Sure it helps the company but it was contractual. No "relevant" clause in that one.
So instead of your Management 101 talking points, why not engage in a dialogue about the firings, the fatigue, the contractual breaches etc. We don't want you to disappear, but you seem to have a management mindset and I guess we just need to "get it". Certainly you don't.
Just rereading your post you say that the offerings at EK are "good enough" to attract new recruits. Any and every company can attract new recruits because new joiners come to any coorporation to improve their lot in life. But one key to a great company is how to retain the people that have built the company. So why, my friend, are we short staffed in many departments, especially pilots? Are those in charge so inept that they, one, don't know how to retain personnel, or two, they could not see the shortage coming? Or do they not care about retaining good personnel since most are not UAE nationals. EK does an unbelievable PR job to the general public (and to you obviously), but the pilot ranks are slowly thinning and "recruits" are not there as they once were. Ask yourself, my friend, why? Please, since you have a knack for managementspeak, address some of these and other postings from above so we mere minions can understand.
Last edited by IXNAT; 10th Mar 2010 at 20:51.
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I once again find it astonishing that when an individual speaks out opinions that aren’t shared by the majority on this forum the answer from most of you is angry and irrational responses.
As you put it yourself you are highly educated and intelligent people. Then you should also be able to discuss your disagreements in an educated and intelligent way.
I do understand that the utilities cap is inconvenient for those few of you who have a consumption that is above the new limit. This does however not mean that it is a breach of your contract. Your contract states that "The Company will pay rent, tax, all relevant cooking gas, electricity and water charges".
From a legal point of view relevant refers to normal consumption in the accommodation you are placed, and excessive luxury use is not covered by the contract. With the new cap EK has only formalized what was in the contract all the time, that only relevant consumption is covered. This view is shared by UAE lawyers and as a result not a contract breach.
Most of you were hired to EK when the world economy was booming, and Dubai was one of the hotspots on the globe. While Dubai's future still looks bright, there is no doubt in the fact that Dubai has severe challenges that needs to be overcome. It’s of course unfortunate that some employees feel that they haven't got everything they thought they would when signing up for the company.
EK try its best to live up to everyone’s high expectations,
but in the business climate that has existed the last years that has been and still is difficult at times. As you have stated yourself these complaints is not a breach of contract, and therefore not something that you can hold EK accountable.
As stated earlier EK understands that it needs to recruit more staff to create more flexibility and ensure further growth, and is as a result of this currently hiring new pilots, cabin crew and so on. EKs management is aware of that the current backup is thin and is taking measures to improve.
It is every EK employee’s job and duty to do our best effort to ensure that the A/C is on route.
EK is in the business of moving people, and if we cannot do that in a good and flawless manner we will no longer have a business to work at,
much less talk negative about in internet forums. Your poor attitude and apparent unwillingness to help the company through a difficult time will not make things better.
EK is in their recruitment work not trying to oversell what we can offer, and wants to create a realistic image of how life at EK will be.
Every day EK receives new highly qualified applications for different positions from all over the world which shows that what EK can offer is good enough and competitive enough to attract the new staff required to overcome current challenges and ensure further growth.
EK is not heaven, but it’s certainly not hell either, and I think it’s sad that so many of you have such lack of respect for your own company and colleagues that you want to drag it into the mud through this forum.
Sort out the level of mud, and we'll get back to you.
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Hi!
From what I can discern, EK is in a precarious pilot manning situation, due to the fact that:
1-New airplanes are coming
2-Pilots are leaving
3-EK is having difficulty hiring enough pilots to replace the leavers AND fill the new cockpits
EK has been lowing the minimum standards they put in place when hiring started in Fall, 2009.
To fix the pilot manning situation, I believe that EK will have to continually lower their minimum standards, AND they will have to IMPROVE the T&Cs of the existing pilot work force.
Conditions in the US, which is what of the main drivers of how successful EK wll be in fixing their pilot manning, due to the fact that the US has the most number of excess pilots that can fly as expats, are improving for pilots.
Increased Hiring Now:
In the US, many regionals will be hiring this year, as will many of the larger-aircraft operators. This trend will accelerate past 2012.
New Regulations Will Require More Hiring:
Additionally, the US Congress is forcing the FAA to improve Flight/Duty/Rest regulations, to make them similar to the British CAA system. This will require hiring of more pilots (or recalling of furloughees) to fill the current flight schedule, by virtually ALL US airlines. Congress is also looking at a bill, with a good chance of becoming law, that will force ALL Part 121 (normal commercial airlines, like Delta and UPS) airlines to hire pilots WITH A FULL ATP. That is correct. A brand new FO, if/when the law passes, will need a FULL ATP to even apply at ANY US airline.
New Pilot Candidate Declines:
Since about 2000, here in the US, EVERY year the number of new Student Pilots, Commercial Pilots, and ATPs has gone DOWN. EVERY YEAR, for the past 10 years, and the trend has been accelerating. When Dec, 2012 hits, when pilots in the US will once again have to retire because of their age (65), there will be a firestorm of hiring required to fill new seats, fill retired guy's slots, and a MASSIVE SHORTAGE of new-hire candidates.
If EK does not improve T&Cs as fast as they possibly can, they will be caught in a negative feedback cycle, and they will be in very big trouble.
I encourage EK management to improve the T&Cs as fast as practical.
Good luck and I hope it works out well for EK over the next 5 years!
cliff
NBO
From what I can discern, EK is in a precarious pilot manning situation, due to the fact that:
1-New airplanes are coming
2-Pilots are leaving
3-EK is having difficulty hiring enough pilots to replace the leavers AND fill the new cockpits
EK has been lowing the minimum standards they put in place when hiring started in Fall, 2009.
To fix the pilot manning situation, I believe that EK will have to continually lower their minimum standards, AND they will have to IMPROVE the T&Cs of the existing pilot work force.
Conditions in the US, which is what of the main drivers of how successful EK wll be in fixing their pilot manning, due to the fact that the US has the most number of excess pilots that can fly as expats, are improving for pilots.
Increased Hiring Now:
In the US, many regionals will be hiring this year, as will many of the larger-aircraft operators. This trend will accelerate past 2012.
New Regulations Will Require More Hiring:
Additionally, the US Congress is forcing the FAA to improve Flight/Duty/Rest regulations, to make them similar to the British CAA system. This will require hiring of more pilots (or recalling of furloughees) to fill the current flight schedule, by virtually ALL US airlines. Congress is also looking at a bill, with a good chance of becoming law, that will force ALL Part 121 (normal commercial airlines, like Delta and UPS) airlines to hire pilots WITH A FULL ATP. That is correct. A brand new FO, if/when the law passes, will need a FULL ATP to even apply at ANY US airline.
New Pilot Candidate Declines:
Since about 2000, here in the US, EVERY year the number of new Student Pilots, Commercial Pilots, and ATPs has gone DOWN. EVERY YEAR, for the past 10 years, and the trend has been accelerating. When Dec, 2012 hits, when pilots in the US will once again have to retire because of their age (65), there will be a firestorm of hiring required to fill new seats, fill retired guy's slots, and a MASSIVE SHORTAGE of new-hire candidates.
If EK does not improve T&Cs as fast as they possibly can, they will be caught in a negative feedback cycle, and they will be in very big trouble.
I encourage EK management to improve the T&Cs as fast as practical.
Good luck and I hope it works out well for EK over the next 5 years!
cliff
NBO
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I think it’s sad that so many of you have such lack of respect for your own company and colleagues that you want to drag it into the mud through this forum
It was the company that broke off any dialogue with the pilots many years ago shortly after the AAR 'review' debacle. Even the 'pilots conferences' (which turned out to be The TCAS & Ed Show) failed to address any issues and only served to reinforce the impression that we are to be controlled by those we hold in contempt and not supported by them. By this exclusion you have increased the distance between the pilots and management which will be much harder to bridge if not impossible. If Pprune is your only recourse to have any discussion with your own pilots then you should be ashamed.
Looking forward to your next set of posts when you get into the office which should be in half an hour or so. Don't forget your Costa's first of course... I'll be preparing to follow a magenta line for 8+ hours or so (not even half way through a 90+ month) and will be doing my best to stay awake.
Last edited by Marooned; 11th Mar 2010 at 07:46.
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Disengagement
Management is made up of managing as well as leadership.:
We have managers who may well be doing a good job of managing(saving the company money), however without any regard for leadership they will never be a good manager.
We are in trouble as leadership also requires a backbone!!
DN
We have managers who may well be doing a good job of managing(saving the company money), however without any regard for leadership they will never be a good manager.
We are in trouble as leadership also requires a backbone!!
DN
Last edited by DickieKnee; 11th Mar 2010 at 03:25. Reason: update
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Hi Mana,
Welcome to PPRUNE! I most say that I have reallly enjoyed reading your posts. They are colourful and informative of the "management" culture in EK.
I think that, single handedly, you have done more to discourage pilots coming than any pilot-written post here. Congratulations.
You have confirmed that EK doesn't honour contracts, whether they are in relation to utilities, pay, hours etc. That FATIGUE is a massive problem. That things are not so good in Dubai. And, most importantly, that comments on PPRUNE are seriously hitting EK recruitment. EK have had 4000 staff LEAVE since Jan 2009.
But we are now recruiting. Get real ya Habibi!
For anyone thinking of EK, please read Mana's excellent posts. Working on the 80/20 Rule, assume 80% of what is written here about EK is true.
Finally, Mana, please don't forget to ask Uncle Maurice for your Nujoom (Star) award. You have done a great service for EK.
Welcome to PPRUNE! I most say that I have reallly enjoyed reading your posts. They are colourful and informative of the "management" culture in EK.
I think that, single handedly, you have done more to discourage pilots coming than any pilot-written post here. Congratulations.
You have confirmed that EK doesn't honour contracts, whether they are in relation to utilities, pay, hours etc. That FATIGUE is a massive problem. That things are not so good in Dubai. And, most importantly, that comments on PPRUNE are seriously hitting EK recruitment. EK have had 4000 staff LEAVE since Jan 2009.
But we are now recruiting. Get real ya Habibi!
For anyone thinking of EK, please read Mana's excellent posts. Working on the 80/20 Rule, assume 80% of what is written here about EK is true.
Finally, Mana, please don't forget to ask Uncle Maurice for your Nujoom (Star) award. You have done a great service for EK.
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I once again find it astonishing that when an individual speaks out opinions that aren’t shared by the majority on this forum the answer from most of you is angry and irrational responses.
As you put it yourself you are highly educated and intelligent people. Then you should also be able to discuss your disagreements in an educated and intelligent way.
As you put it yourself you are highly educated and intelligent people. Then you should also be able to discuss your disagreements in an educated and intelligent way.
Irrational responses? On the contrary, I think that any open minded person reading this will see that the responses to your posts have been for the most part rational and substantive. I think that they will also see that when asked to respond to particular issues, you are selective and incomplete.
I do understand that the utilities cap is inconvenient for those few of you who have a consumption that is above the new limit. This does however not mean that it is a breach of your contract. Your contract states that "The Company will pay rent, tax, all relevant cooking gas, electricity and water charges". From a legal point of view relevant refers to normal consumption in the accommodation you are placed, and excessive luxury use is not covered by the contract. With the new cap EK has only formalized what was in the contract all the time, that only relevant consumption is covered. This view is shared by UAE lawyers and as a result not a contract breach.
If you check your dictionary, relevant does not equate to normal and for your information, the contract does not say either. It says that the company will meet the cost of utilities. I have no doubt that the company would prevail in a UAE court of law. One only has to look down the road to see a very well publicized example of how the law is not applied evenly here.
Most of you were hired to EK when the world economy was booming, and Dubai was one of the hotspots on the globe. While Dubai's future still looks bright, there is no doubt in the fact that Dubai has severe challenges that needs to be overcome. It’s of course unfortunate that some employees feel that they haven't got everything they thought they would when signing up for the company. EK try its best to live up to everyone’s high expectations, but in the business climate that has existed the last years that has been and still is difficult at times. As you have stated yourself these complaints is not a breach of contract, and therefore not something that you can hold EK accountable.
As I am expected to live up to my word and as my reputation relies on it, so does Emirates reputation lie on them living up to their word. I don't think that anyone here will deny that things have changed in the airline world but the way the company went about instituting their changes leaves a lot to be desired. We were not told that the changes were due to the need for everyone to pitch in and help out. That might have been mistaken for leadership. We were told that we were all flying long haul (not true) and that a 20% increase in the overtime threshold was "reasonable". What it was was a 15% paycut for most pilots, something that we were told the rest of the company did not have.
As stated earlier EK understands that it needs to recruit more staff to create more flexibility and ensure further growth, and is as a result of this currently hiring new pilots, cabin crew and so on. EKs management is aware of that the current backup is thin and is taking measures to improve. It is every EK employee’s job and duty to do our best effort to ensure that the A/C is on route. EK is in the business of moving people, and if we cannot do that in a good and flawless manner we will no longer have a business to work at, much less talk negative about in internet forums. Your poor attitude and apparent unwillingness to help the company through a difficult time will not make things better.
EK is only recruiting staff to maintain the current work levels and hence the fatigue levels for expansion. We have been told that average block hours per month and overtime thresholds will remain. I think that you would find that this is a very professional pilot group and that the failings of the operation are due to the failures of the management and their policies rather than of the pilots at the coal face. The upper management of EK flight ops have never flown here and in some cases have never flown in this type of operation. They have very little idea of what our operation and its inherent difficulties actually entail. You have admonished us for not taking our issues to management. That is exactly what this is all about. We have and they do not, nor do they care to listen.
EK is in their recruitment work not trying to oversell what we can offer, and wants to create a realistic image of how life at EK will be. Every day EK receives new highly qualified applications for different positions from all over the world which shows that what EK can offer is good enough and competitive enough to attract the new staff required to overcome current challenges and ensure further growth. EK is not heaven, but it’s certainly not hell either, and I think it’s sad that so many of you have such lack of respect for your own company and colleagues that you want to drag it into the mud through this forum.
I would much rather deal directly with a company that was interested in what I had to say but alas, that is not the case. You reap what you sow. Now I have responded to each and every one of your points. I would like you to address a few of the points made here that so far you have remained silent on:
1. How can the company justify the current levels of fatigue when there is so much evidence that the pilots themselves are finding them unworkable? What do you have to say to the families that are shouldering a lot of the burden of those fatigue levels?
2. What about the pilot who was fired while under training? An open and just safety culture?
3. What do you have to say to those pilots and their families who were stuffed into 2 bedroom apartments for over 2 years? What do you have to say to the pilots considering joining here who do not want to subject their families to the same?
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The most interesting thread in years, and I hope Mana will continue his dialogue.
Mana,
EK is at the point that management feels compelled enough to damage control and post on an internet forum. Very telling situation isn't it? This fact alone should be extremely worrying and as mentioned before is an effect not a cause of the poor morale within EK.
If an individual has a 50-60k yearly drm DEWA bill, perhaps it would be best to isolate the issue not brushstroke the entire villa community and unilaterally alter a contract. When isolated incidences occur don't you think they should be treated as such? This applies to shoot from the hip FCIs, FCNs, SOP's and a plethora of other reactionary changes over the recent years. Take some time to digest the situation and why it happened and how it can be reasonably rectified for a win-win solution.
Cost cutting contract adjustments and productivity increases have been made to the complete disregard for the safety and health of the pilot group. Fatigue is a very serious issue and rosters are stretched to the absolute maximum. The time zone changes, day and night operations and challenges to some of our destinations are not fully appreciated or considered. Just keep your head down, you are lucky to have a job we are told. Good for morale??
The company is disjointed from many outside managers with the job of cost cutting and internal savings. There is very little cohesion or an open door policy of any kind. Come and talk to your manager? You must be joking. It is a very dragonian management style and here we are trying to vent our frustrations. Believe it Mana, this is a fact. It might not seem like it from your office, but look at these posts. It's not idle complaints and bored pilots with nothing better to do. There has been a paradigm shift in the last 5 years and EK is a money making machine, not so much a proud employer of highly motivated and happy employees. Can you imagine the profits if that were the case? One of the frustrating facts is that the foundations are there to make EK a great place to work. However, we are treated and FEEL like a neccessary evil. So just a few suggestions:
Respect our contract and conditions of service, more open and honest dialogue, read the last one again, honor internal transfers by seniority, hire more pilots for greater flexibility and lower the bid window, implement a true non-punitive safety culture, reward us when we sacrifice with pay increases, give us more positive feedback and search for ways of improving morale. It IS important.
Most pilots are willing to help and have done so in great numbers in the past but pay us over a reasonable threshold, not 92 hours. Most pilots have a very professional attitude, give EK their best and want this company to succeed, but you can't keep eroding our working conditions and take advantage of us without an eventual backlash. You have it before you.
But you say we must do this to protect the companies interests and profitability...yes, but to what end Mana? Where does the cost cutting and increase in productivity end? On the very backs of your hard working employees, EK will announce outstanding profits at year end in a couple months. I sincerely hope the pilot group will be compensated for our contributions.
This is not a pprune rogue group of negative pilots spouting off - this is honest feedback and the true realities from your hard working line pilots. EK is in the business of moving people, but it is also in the business of PEOPLE and PEOPLE, not airplanes , is it's most important commodity. I suggest EK start to remember this and quickly.
Mana,
EK is at the point that management feels compelled enough to damage control and post on an internet forum. Very telling situation isn't it? This fact alone should be extremely worrying and as mentioned before is an effect not a cause of the poor morale within EK.
If an individual has a 50-60k yearly drm DEWA bill, perhaps it would be best to isolate the issue not brushstroke the entire villa community and unilaterally alter a contract. When isolated incidences occur don't you think they should be treated as such? This applies to shoot from the hip FCIs, FCNs, SOP's and a plethora of other reactionary changes over the recent years. Take some time to digest the situation and why it happened and how it can be reasonably rectified for a win-win solution.
Cost cutting contract adjustments and productivity increases have been made to the complete disregard for the safety and health of the pilot group. Fatigue is a very serious issue and rosters are stretched to the absolute maximum. The time zone changes, day and night operations and challenges to some of our destinations are not fully appreciated or considered. Just keep your head down, you are lucky to have a job we are told. Good for morale??
The company is disjointed from many outside managers with the job of cost cutting and internal savings. There is very little cohesion or an open door policy of any kind. Come and talk to your manager? You must be joking. It is a very dragonian management style and here we are trying to vent our frustrations. Believe it Mana, this is a fact. It might not seem like it from your office, but look at these posts. It's not idle complaints and bored pilots with nothing better to do. There has been a paradigm shift in the last 5 years and EK is a money making machine, not so much a proud employer of highly motivated and happy employees. Can you imagine the profits if that were the case? One of the frustrating facts is that the foundations are there to make EK a great place to work. However, we are treated and FEEL like a neccessary evil. So just a few suggestions:
Respect our contract and conditions of service, more open and honest dialogue, read the last one again, honor internal transfers by seniority, hire more pilots for greater flexibility and lower the bid window, implement a true non-punitive safety culture, reward us when we sacrifice with pay increases, give us more positive feedback and search for ways of improving morale. It IS important.
Most pilots are willing to help and have done so in great numbers in the past but pay us over a reasonable threshold, not 92 hours. Most pilots have a very professional attitude, give EK their best and want this company to succeed, but you can't keep eroding our working conditions and take advantage of us without an eventual backlash. You have it before you.
But you say we must do this to protect the companies interests and profitability...yes, but to what end Mana? Where does the cost cutting and increase in productivity end? On the very backs of your hard working employees, EK will announce outstanding profits at year end in a couple months. I sincerely hope the pilot group will be compensated for our contributions.
This is not a pprune rogue group of negative pilots spouting off - this is honest feedback and the true realities from your hard working line pilots. EK is in the business of moving people, but it is also in the business of PEOPLE and PEOPLE, not airplanes , is it's most important commodity. I suggest EK start to remember this and quickly.
Last edited by Saltaire; 11th Mar 2010 at 07:43.
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Hi Mana,
Haven't seen a reply from you yet. Do make sure you get your draft reply approved quickly from upstairs. It just wouldn't do to be "off message"
Please answer a question for me? An Airbus Captain, in his uniform, going to work for a rostered flight, gets arrested for.....absconding Poor man spent the night in jail for NOTHING. 
EK did nothing to help him or his family. Why?
I am sure that there are many people, both EK staff, and potential joiners who would like to know the truth.
Please enlighten us?
Mana, let me tell you something. The best thing about EK is the people. If the (mis) management of this potentially amazing company actually listened to and engaged with the staff positively, can you imagine the profits that could be made.
Look forward to your next post.
Haven't seen a reply from you yet. Do make sure you get your draft reply approved quickly from upstairs. It just wouldn't do to be "off message"
Please answer a question for me? An Airbus Captain, in his uniform, going to work for a rostered flight, gets arrested for.....absconding
Poor man spent the night in jail for NOTHING. EK did nothing to help him or his family. Why?
I am sure that there are many people, both EK staff, and potential joiners who would like to know the truth.
Please enlighten us?
Mana, let me tell you something. The best thing about EK is the people. If the (mis) management of this potentially amazing company actually listened to and engaged with the staff positively, can you imagine the profits that could be made.
Look forward to your next post.
Nothing New Under the Sun.
Some quotes from another PPRuNe thread ... dated Feb/March 2004
The whole thread is here:
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/12...t-meeting.html
As I recollect two of the 'voices' from the floor lost their '03/'04 profit share for speaking their minds at that 'lazy pilots' meeting.
Only been here a short time, not enjoying it at all. EK is going to be in deep if it doesn't do something soon regarding recruitment, pay and upgrades soon.
Well I'm sorry to say that EK generally (and I hate to generalise, but this is the case), don't give a Monkey's #oss about its employees;
Emirates is not a good job anymore. Do not waste your time applying.
Emirates' Flt Ops management is extremely disrespectful towards the pilots. BOTTOM LINE MANAGEMENT STRATEGY IS: IF YOU DO NOT LIKE IT YOU CAN LEAVE.
And always remember the management will reap what they sow. If they make to much of a mess, not only the pilots will suffer but the whole airline.
The contract your old man signed is not worth the paper it is written on, conditions change monthly for the worse.
I am not being paid enough to put up with this crap!
The SVPE&FO can see no reason at all why there is any bad feeling or why moral is not high.
I think the thing that is most upsetting to me is that in my mind Emirates was a First Class Airline all the way and we were really excited about being a part of it.
Anybody looking at coming here should do so ONLY if the existing conditions at their present location are so bad that they MUST move on,
However, with a family, we don't save a dime.
Wake up Emirates! We will not survive long enough to reach the forcasted expansion targets if you continue to employ stupid, inexperienced, asskissing, brown-nosing, idiots for upper management positions.
The upgrade was a huge factor. 4 months after I got here, they up and changed the rules.
He wisely decided not to come to EK and will keep on flying as a CPT with his present European A320 Charter company. He changed his mind due to the present very low crew-morale, the future upgrade prospects and last but not least the way EK managment is treating it's pilots...
...make any decision based on what conditions will become, not what they are now.
http://www.pprune.org/middle-east/12...t-meeting.html
As I recollect two of the 'voices' from the floor lost their '03/'04 profit share for speaking their minds at that 'lazy pilots' meeting.
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@Mana,
stop waisting your energy in doing ridiculous politics here on pprune...
Go back in your office and use your new won insider view (by reading pprune) to change this company in a better one again.
Soon you will find out, that these threat's against EK will turn into threats pro EK and all of a sudden (for you, i guess, a big surprise) people will love to work here again.....
Can i just ask you MANA, which fleet are you on?
Because as we all know, you are clearly a Management guy..... LOST THE CONNECTION to the base....
NOT KNOWING WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
stop waisting your energy in doing ridiculous politics here on pprune...
Go back in your office and use your new won insider view (by reading pprune) to change this company in a better one again.
Soon you will find out, that these threat's against EK will turn into threats pro EK and all of a sudden (for you, i guess, a big surprise) people will love to work here again.....
Can i just ask you MANA, which fleet are you on?
Because as we all know, you are clearly a Management guy..... LOST THE CONNECTION to the base....
NOT KNOWING WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT
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Saltaires Post
I dont have much to add but I particularly liked Saltaire's post.
Well reasoned tone and style. Pity he is not in management?
Is 'mana' short for mana gement? Or did I miss that earlier?
Once pilots work out that they get paid the same for zero hours as doing 92 the wheels will come off even more - AKA sick levels and stuff like that.
Just watched the ABC doco on DXB - pretty much reflects the place completely.
The good times are gone ... well unless you are a convicted felon who is designing clothes for the boss in Abu Dhabi ( Jamaican dude called Khan... but was that the emperor's new clothes I hear you ask!!!)
over and out!
lol
WJA
Well reasoned tone and style. Pity he is not in management?
Is 'mana' short for mana gement? Or did I miss that earlier?
Once pilots work out that they get paid the same for zero hours as doing 92 the wheels will come off even more - AKA sick levels and stuff like that.
Just watched the ABC doco on DXB - pretty much reflects the place completely.
The good times are gone ... well unless you are a convicted felon who is designing clothes for the boss in Abu Dhabi ( Jamaican dude called Khan... but was that the emperor's new clothes I hear you ask!!!)
over and out!
lol
WJA