100 pilot's sick in EK A/C on ground.. LACK OF CREW!!!
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@ MANA
quote:
"EK does not, have not, and will not breach any employee contracts."
You gave it away Mana... YOU ARE MANAGMENT.....
YOU ARE LYING LIKE THEY DO....
quote:
"EK does not, have not, and will not breach any employee contracts."
You gave it away Mana... YOU ARE MANAGMENT.....
YOU ARE LYING LIKE THEY DO....
Join Date: Aug 1999
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Loyalty is a two way street Mana. And if any understanding or progress is going to be made, you should stop concentrating so much on management's point of view and at least accept that there could be another. I accept that times are tough right now, but please explain why conditions have steadily eroded over the last 6 years. You want to double your number of pilots, but are battling to cover attrition, hence this desperate post on here. While I appreciate the opportunity for dialogue (finally), it does smack of desperation.
Your lack of understanding of current concerns is all I feared it may be. You ask why we air our negativity here; well where else? Communication on any matter regarding our deteriorating conditions is met with a brush off. What do we have left, apart from moving on?
This was once, over a decade ago, when I came here for an interview, a good job. You have made it an industry joke. All I can say is that it is a big wheel, and it turns real slow, but one day we will be back on top. Hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror.
Your lack of understanding of current concerns is all I feared it may be. You ask why we air our negativity here; well where else? Communication on any matter regarding our deteriorating conditions is met with a brush off. What do we have left, apart from moving on?
This was once, over a decade ago, when I came here for an interview, a good job. You have made it an industry joke. All I can say is that it is a big wheel, and it turns real slow, but one day we will be back on top. Hope you can still look at yourself in the mirror.
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I am happy that the views reflected by the majority of you are not representational for EKs staff, and that the reality experienced luckily differs allot from the one portrayed here. I think EK needs to take measures to ensure that negative views not in accordance with reality is not tolerated, and that such views cannot be allowed to destroy the good working climate at EK. If we could operate in a professional manner and have faith in our co-workers we would all be much better off.
So EK needs to take measures........sounds like a threat to me. misMana(agment), please enlighten us where the pilot group is NOT operating in a professional manner. Any potential recruit only has to read the above. You sir in the last two days have done more to damage the reputation of EK than all the posts over the past year. Many recruits could look at our postings and say we are a bunch of whingers and they themselves could gut it out. But you, with what you have written proves without a doubt what all have been saying. We will be looking in Safa for a link to your gold star.
So EK needs to take measures........sounds like a threat to me. misMana(agment), please enlighten us where the pilot group is NOT operating in a professional manner. Any potential recruit only has to read the above. You sir in the last two days have done more to damage the reputation of EK than all the posts over the past year. Many recruits could look at our postings and say we are a bunch of whingers and they themselves could gut it out. But you, with what you have written proves without a doubt what all have been saying. We will be looking in Safa for a link to your gold star.
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But there is more
Business is business you hear from time to time. Today these words seem to have the connotation that everything is permitted.
EK will use everything in its power to get the job done, and that is why they are facing more and more rebellion, inside the company as well as fierce resistance from airlines that have to compete with EK on the basis of safety, efficiency and quality only.
EK however, being owned by the government, that is a single family that owns the whole country, has a significant advantage over its competitors, who more and more do no longer accept the EK tactics.
When the financial crisis broke out, Dubai cried out that they were treated unfair by the international media but internally they will even attack those that are loyal to them.
Intimidation, harassment, torture, blackmail, bribe, psychological rape etc .... Everything money can buy is on the menu. Do not be mistaken, EK has to do this. Dubai as a country is not yet big enough to be self sustaining, they have to grow, whatever the human (it's only expats anyway) cost in order to survive.
Any criticism, even when uttered with positive intention will be driven into the ground, EK is their national pride.
One may think what kind of drivel is all of this but every single bit of is has been proved to be true. If they have any pride they should face this evidence head on.
I am not saying that the owners are all that bad, but if they are being told what the possibilities are and what the risks, they will cover part of the risk if things go wrong in order to avoid any international exposure. They are the law and soon enough they will tell other authorities how things are done.
They already have the vice president seat at ICAO, if they are not careful in that capacity, they might expose their true nature more than they intend to.
This is a political reality they will have to accept. Air Canada supported by their government, knows all about it. Enough is enough.
And news in this industry spreads very fast.
Mana: PPRuNe is the only way to get this exposed, to do so internally if far too dangerous, a reality only a fool would ignore. This argument and this argument only is the reason why this forum is so active. You do not see these kind of arguments coming out of any airline outside he Middle East.
EK will use everything in its power to get the job done, and that is why they are facing more and more rebellion, inside the company as well as fierce resistance from airlines that have to compete with EK on the basis of safety, efficiency and quality only.
EK however, being owned by the government, that is a single family that owns the whole country, has a significant advantage over its competitors, who more and more do no longer accept the EK tactics.
When the financial crisis broke out, Dubai cried out that they were treated unfair by the international media but internally they will even attack those that are loyal to them.
Intimidation, harassment, torture, blackmail, bribe, psychological rape etc .... Everything money can buy is on the menu. Do not be mistaken, EK has to do this. Dubai as a country is not yet big enough to be self sustaining, they have to grow, whatever the human (it's only expats anyway) cost in order to survive.
Any criticism, even when uttered with positive intention will be driven into the ground, EK is their national pride.
One may think what kind of drivel is all of this but every single bit of is has been proved to be true. If they have any pride they should face this evidence head on.
I am not saying that the owners are all that bad, but if they are being told what the possibilities are and what the risks, they will cover part of the risk if things go wrong in order to avoid any international exposure. They are the law and soon enough they will tell other authorities how things are done.
They already have the vice president seat at ICAO, if they are not careful in that capacity, they might expose their true nature more than they intend to.
This is a political reality they will have to accept. Air Canada supported by their government, knows all about it. Enough is enough.
And news in this industry spreads very fast.
Mana: PPRuNe is the only way to get this exposed, to do so internally if far too dangerous, a reality only a fool would ignore. This argument and this argument only is the reason why this forum is so active. You do not see these kind of arguments coming out of any airline outside he Middle East.
Last edited by Pitch Up Authority; 11th Mar 2010 at 19:05.
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So Mana,
Have you made a list of the people appropriate measures need to be taken against.
You talk about UAE law, that pardond a guy for shoving sand up a persons mouth and planting nails in his butt and rubbing salt on it, because the poor guy did not know what he was doing. The SUV just went over him a few times becase he had diminished responsability. What do you guys smoke here.
Would you like to see the video, probably not
Have you made a list of the people appropriate measures need to be taken against.
You talk about UAE law, that pardond a guy for shoving sand up a persons mouth and planting nails in his butt and rubbing salt on it, because the poor guy did not know what he was doing. The SUV just went over him a few times becase he had diminished responsability. What do you guys smoke here.
Would you like to see the video, probably not
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I also hope that Mana is a fellow pilot, using his posts to illuminate the situation here. I want to believe that management is not so desperate or stupid as to resort to such imbecilic responses. I want to believe it......but...
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If he is a pilot, he has to be a local kid, so full of the brainwashing they get.
Like they have a culture
The only Arabs that had one were north of the PERSIAN GULF.
If the Persians knew there would be a thing like black gold, they would have taken this Arabian outback over 2000 years ago.
Like they have a culture
The only Arabs that had one were north of the PERSIAN GULF.
If the Persians knew there would be a thing like black gold, they would have taken this Arabian outback over 2000 years ago.
For those newbies that are trying to post, your posts may need a moderator approval. Its a software thing. Bear with me
Also be aware that you maybe being wound up..... Just a thought.
Carry on.
EGGW
Also be aware that you maybe being wound up..... Just a thought.
Carry on.
EGGW
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Very interesting developments here.
I can just imagine the fallout in the media over this thread if god forbid a fatigue related mishap was to eventuate.
The warning signs were there and if mana is actually a bona fide EK management hack they were warned appropiately through conventional and not so conventual (public) ways, hopefully the courts willl hang the ones responsible for the mess from the tallest crane in the UAE however thats probably wishfull thinking.
It seems to be that the grievances posted here are not just a select few but a large proportion of the EK flt crews.
Feel sorry for you guys that have to deal with this, all i can say is hang in there, things will get better one way or another even if it means leaving.
I can just imagine the fallout in the media over this thread if god forbid a fatigue related mishap was to eventuate.
The warning signs were there and if mana is actually a bona fide EK management hack they were warned appropiately through conventional and not so conventual (public) ways, hopefully the courts willl hang the ones responsible for the mess from the tallest crane in the UAE however thats probably wishfull thinking.
It seems to be that the grievances posted here are not just a select few but a large proportion of the EK flt crews.
Feel sorry for you guys that have to deal with this, all i can say is hang in there, things will get better one way or another even if it means leaving.
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Hey MANA !
Sorry to rain on your parade buddy, but EK is way, way short of being a World Class Airline.
Do take a look at Skytrax, and see just how many complaints are posted there by disgruntled passengers.
My family and I have have flown EK a couple of times, and have vowed never to do it again.
You aircraft are FILTHY inside.
The toilets are FILTHY.
Your staff on the ground are LAZY and RUDE.
Your staff in the air are LAZY and RUDE.
Your seats are UNCOMFORTABLE.
Your cabin service is POOR.
I had a Flightcrew application in with EK a few years ago - I am more than qualified to work for you - but I have since withdrawn that application.
I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR EK ANYMORE.
Just take a guess why, Mana...
Do take a look at Skytrax, and see just how many complaints are posted there by disgruntled passengers.
My family and I have have flown EK a couple of times, and have vowed never to do it again.
You aircraft are FILTHY inside.
The toilets are FILTHY.
Your staff on the ground are LAZY and RUDE.
Your staff in the air are LAZY and RUDE.
Your seats are UNCOMFORTABLE.
Your cabin service is POOR.
I had a Flightcrew application in with EK a few years ago - I am more than qualified to work for you - but I have since withdrawn that application.
I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR EK ANYMORE.
Just take a guess why, Mana...
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Well,having followed various threads on pprune over the past 10 years or so there are really only a couple of major airlines I would not put my family on.
One is Korean the other is Emirates.
I fly longhaul for a major far east airline, I know all about fatigue believe me and the way you guys at Emirates are rostered to fly does not instill much confidence in the safety of your operation.
Emirates policy with regard to rostering and in particular fatigue management will eventualy bite them in the arse,it nearly did in Melbourne and sadly I think another Melbourne is just around the corner.
So until rostering practices change,I will not recommend to anyone who asks me Emirates as a SAFE airline to fly on.
my 2 cents worth.
good luck to you all, I hope common sense will prevail.
One is Korean the other is Emirates.
I fly longhaul for a major far east airline, I know all about fatigue believe me and the way you guys at Emirates are rostered to fly does not instill much confidence in the safety of your operation.
Emirates policy with regard to rostering and in particular fatigue management will eventualy bite them in the arse,it nearly did in Melbourne and sadly I think another Melbourne is just around the corner.
So until rostering practices change,I will not recommend to anyone who asks me Emirates as a SAFE airline to fly on.
my 2 cents worth.
good luck to you all, I hope common sense will prevail.
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Mana is certainly not a pilot. I have never run across a colleague who spoke the management 'double-speak' as well as him.
The Utilities issue is ''incovenient''? Sorry, it's much more than ''inconvenient'', you ass.
"Dubai's future looks bright''? Wow, that statement actually made me laugh out loud!
''SOME pilots have to take on a higher workload''. Nope, all pilots must take on a higher workload but more importantly, it is unsustainable. This fact, which includes fatigue, health and family issues, is obviously readily apparent to most prospective new-joiners.
''No employee is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is not a severe breach of regulations''. That is a complete falsehood, which every single pilot at EK has come to understand.
''EK has not, have not and will not breach employee contracts''. That is another complete falsehood that every employee, not just pilots, realizes about Emirates Airline.
Then Mana goes on to state that UAE lawyers have been consulted, obviously prior to the myriad of changes to our T&C's, and no doubt they weighed the likelihood of legal action before giving their advice. Clearly, even our pathetic management knew what they were doing, and they started taking risks and have yet been held to account.
Personally, I think we should encourage Mana to continue posting... he has quickly become the best ''anti-advertisement'' for prospective recruits to this shameless cesspool.
NOTHING will change for the better, until aircraft are parked! Even then, I doubt things will return to a sane level. The 'tipping' point has been surpassed and Emirates Airline is obviously attempting to mitigate the damage by employing certain immoral individuals to counter the truthful statements made on Pprune. It is comedic, except for the fact that the issues are so serious.
I have believed, up until reading Mana's dictated posts, that individuals who are UNEMPLOYED might want to consider EK as a short-term 'stop-gap' in their career, but NOW, I don't think this job is suitable even for those pilots. Short of living in a place where you stand a high risk of being killed (crime, traffic, etc) AND you are out of work....... forget about this job.
Mana has wonderfully demonstrated the attitude of our management and the futility of our struggle for important issues like Fatigue, Health, Lifestyle or even a tiny amount of respect for our professionalism and abilities.
This company has lost the plot!
The Utilities issue is ''incovenient''? Sorry, it's much more than ''inconvenient'', you ass.
"Dubai's future looks bright''? Wow, that statement actually made me laugh out loud!
''SOME pilots have to take on a higher workload''. Nope, all pilots must take on a higher workload but more importantly, it is unsustainable. This fact, which includes fatigue, health and family issues, is obviously readily apparent to most prospective new-joiners.
''No employee is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is not a severe breach of regulations''. That is a complete falsehood, which every single pilot at EK has come to understand.
''EK has not, have not and will not breach employee contracts''. That is another complete falsehood that every employee, not just pilots, realizes about Emirates Airline.
Then Mana goes on to state that UAE lawyers have been consulted, obviously prior to the myriad of changes to our T&C's, and no doubt they weighed the likelihood of legal action before giving their advice. Clearly, even our pathetic management knew what they were doing, and they started taking risks and have yet been held to account.
Personally, I think we should encourage Mana to continue posting... he has quickly become the best ''anti-advertisement'' for prospective recruits to this shameless cesspool.
NOTHING will change for the better, until aircraft are parked! Even then, I doubt things will return to a sane level. The 'tipping' point has been surpassed and Emirates Airline is obviously attempting to mitigate the damage by employing certain immoral individuals to counter the truthful statements made on Pprune. It is comedic, except for the fact that the issues are so serious.
I have believed, up until reading Mana's dictated posts, that individuals who are UNEMPLOYED might want to consider EK as a short-term 'stop-gap' in their career, but NOW, I don't think this job is suitable even for those pilots. Short of living in a place where you stand a high risk of being killed (crime, traffic, etc) AND you are out of work....... forget about this job.
Mana has wonderfully demonstrated the attitude of our management and the futility of our struggle for important issues like Fatigue, Health, Lifestyle or even a tiny amount of respect for our professionalism and abilities.
This company has lost the plot!
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Mana,
Don't want to attack you personally so this is just an effort on my behalf so that you may appear a little more intelligent in your future posts.
Spellcheck will not help with your incorrect use of the words "to" (too) and "ore" (or) in your last post about yor uuce ov spelllchek.
Idiot.
Don't want to attack you personally so this is just an effort on my behalf so that you may appear a little more intelligent in your future posts.
Spellcheck will not help with your incorrect use of the words "to" (too) and "ore" (or) in your last post about yor uuce ov spelllchek.
Idiot.
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The law in the UAE is very much set up to protect local companies. Large companies like Ek can choose to ignore employees rights (as they have done with the utilities allowances), knowing;
a. there is no such thing as "class action" in UAE law, and
b. there is no such thing as legal precedence, therefore the case your mate just won means nothing when you go to court to argue the exact same situation.
Therefore, all UAE companies know it is difficult and expensive for individuals to go to court, especially against a large entity, and win. That's why they take risks like this, and are happy to break the law with very little chance of it coming back to bite them.
The courts in DXB are also notoriously slow, and lawyers are hesitant to take on a government entity.
So Mana, your argument about EK following the law does not sit well with me (and no doubt the majority of readers/contributors to this forum). It continues to make your arguments seem astonishingly naive.
a. there is no such thing as "class action" in UAE law, and
b. there is no such thing as legal precedence, therefore the case your mate just won means nothing when you go to court to argue the exact same situation.
Therefore, all UAE companies know it is difficult and expensive for individuals to go to court, especially against a large entity, and win. That's why they take risks like this, and are happy to break the law with very little chance of it coming back to bite them.
The courts in DXB are also notoriously slow, and lawyers are hesitant to take on a government entity.
So Mana, your argument about EK following the law does not sit well with me (and no doubt the majority of readers/contributors to this forum). It continues to make your arguments seem astonishingly naive.
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Bye Mana
I believe Mana has left the building. I don't think he ever expected such a response. I bet his boss/master told him to come on here and tell us how things are, but we showed him. The truth is very hard to take and I wish it could get to the top. This really could be a great place to work. Oh well the resumes are out and I'm just waiting to hear. Stay safe guys!.
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Of course he's left the building....it's the weekend at EGHK. EGT has used up all of his mismanagement talking points, so we will hear from him probably Monday with some more threats as in his last post.
Plus he will have to discuss what should be said in response. Let's face it, no question he is part of the EGHQ. How else would he know and make the slip that "lawyers were consulted". I don't know for sure; do you?
Plus he will have to discuss what should be said in response. Let's face it, no question he is part of the EGHQ. How else would he know and make the slip that "lawyers were consulted". I don't know for sure; do you?