100 pilot's sick in EK A/C on ground.. LACK OF CREW!!!
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MANA
Your continued silence on this thread means you are either in a different hemisphere and a few time zones displaced
and your layover hotel doesn't have free internet on the contract, or my misinformed friend you don't have the code for the cockpit door because you are not allowed in anyway
.
All the best !
Reebs.320
Your continued silence on this thread means you are either in a different hemisphere and a few time zones displaced
and your layover hotel doesn't have free internet on the contract, or my misinformed friend you don't have the code for the cockpit door because you are not allowed in anyway.All the best !
Reebs.320
Everyone here knows I am not as negative as most to EK, to the point of raising some of the more vocal critics ire, and am always willing to point out when any of the negative stuff is simply crap or at least exageration.
It's from that stand-point that I feel justified in saying- Mana, shut the hell up.
Countering pure hysterical crap like sheikmyarse puts out is one thing. Putting up totaly blinkered, one sided propoganga is not only ridiculous, it achieves the opposite to what you are intending.
There have been serious changes to EK pilots pay and conditions, and they have been almost entirely negative. I understand that they have been in response to tough ecconomic times, but there has not been one iota of willingness shown to move things back in the right direction as things improve.
Fatigue and moral are MAJOR issues, and the current recruitment is far to late to avoid a dangerous period while eveyone flys hard with lots of newbees around.
What has been most distressing to me has been the fact that, coupled with a reduction in renumeration,there has been a totally counter-productive attitude of fire first and ask questions later.
The treatment of the Manchester crew was down-right immoral. Even in the case Accra crew, the company tried to spout some form of victroy for justice when the guys were fired, but managed to get there jobs back when it came to be recognised they'd done nothing wrong!!
Really, an attitude of "Help us through difficult times, we'll appreciate it, help where we can, and reward you when things pick up" would have gone a LONG way to stopping people WANTING to post negative stuff on PPRUNE. "Like it or leave" doesn't.
I want EK to succeed and prosper, yes for my own selfish reasons but also for the good of everyone else who works here.
Head-in-sand about the problems the company is making for itself does not achieve this.
It's from that stand-point that I feel justified in saying- Mana, shut the hell up.
Countering pure hysterical crap like sheikmyarse puts out is one thing. Putting up totaly blinkered, one sided propoganga is not only ridiculous, it achieves the opposite to what you are intending.
There have been serious changes to EK pilots pay and conditions, and they have been almost entirely negative. I understand that they have been in response to tough ecconomic times, but there has not been one iota of willingness shown to move things back in the right direction as things improve.
Fatigue and moral are MAJOR issues, and the current recruitment is far to late to avoid a dangerous period while eveyone flys hard with lots of newbees around.
What has been most distressing to me has been the fact that, coupled with a reduction in renumeration,there has been a totally counter-productive attitude of fire first and ask questions later.
The treatment of the Manchester crew was down-right immoral. Even in the case Accra crew, the company tried to spout some form of victroy for justice when the guys were fired, but managed to get there jobs back when it came to be recognised they'd done nothing wrong!!
Really, an attitude of "Help us through difficult times, we'll appreciate it, help where we can, and reward you when things pick up" would have gone a LONG way to stopping people WANTING to post negative stuff on PPRUNE. "Like it or leave" doesn't.
I want EK to succeed and prosper, yes for my own selfish reasons but also for the good of everyone else who works here.
Head-in-sand about the problems the company is making for itself does not achieve this.
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MANA
I have to agree with Wizofoz.
We all knew that the recession was going to impact EK. We are not naive. The company should have approached the pilots and asked them to make some sacrifices for a year with a review every six months thereafter. Most guys would have willingly obliged and also would have probably gone out of their way to help. However, the company used the recession as an excuse to adjust all t&c's in their favor and also to treat the pilots with utter disdain and disrespect. This is the reason why guys are upset.
I have to agree with Wizofoz.
We all knew that the recession was going to impact EK. We are not naive. The company should have approached the pilots and asked them to make some sacrifices for a year with a review every six months thereafter. Most guys would have willingly obliged and also would have probably gone out of their way to help. However, the company used the recession as an excuse to adjust all t&c's in their favor and also to treat the pilots with utter disdain and disrespect. This is the reason why guys are upset.
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This thread makes me chuckle.
Firstly, because it truely shows how desperatley the EK pilot group desires to communicate with it's management, that they are willing to try to communicate with someone who gives the impression that they could be in the management camp!
Secondly, that there is a belief by some that this would help in fixing any of the problems confronting the pilot group!
It's simply not the way things are dealt with here. EK management is a multi-level dictatorship, with each level of management dictating to those below them, while refusing to listen to anything that doesn't fit their view of the world from those below them.
I said it makes me chuckle but in hind sight it's actually very sad!!!
Firstly, because it truely shows how desperatley the EK pilot group desires to communicate with it's management, that they are willing to try to communicate with someone who gives the impression that they could be in the management camp!
Secondly, that there is a belief by some that this would help in fixing any of the problems confronting the pilot group!
It's simply not the way things are dealt with here. EK management is a multi-level dictatorship, with each level of management dictating to those below them, while refusing to listen to anything that doesn't fit their view of the world from those below them.
I said it makes me chuckle but in hind sight it's actually very sad!!!
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Mana
You have to understand that once Pilot morale is down it stays down. In the big scheme of things if all other subjects were fine then the average pilot discontented or otherwise wouldn't give a monkeys nuts about the odd problem or two be it the utilities cap at one end of the scale to fatigue at the other end (within reasonable bounds given that flying is fatigueing wherever you are)
If they feel safe and wanted then your half way there. The fact is given the current economical climate Pilots shouldn't be leaving Emirates, yes they are a bunch of mercenaries but if they are happy mercenaries they don't normally leave. I say that with 30 years of experience dealing with them!
You have to understand that once Pilot morale is down it stays down. In the big scheme of things if all other subjects were fine then the average pilot discontented or otherwise wouldn't give a monkeys nuts about the odd problem or two be it the utilities cap at one end of the scale to fatigue at the other end (within reasonable bounds given that flying is fatigueing wherever you are)
If they feel safe and wanted then your half way there. The fact is given the current economical climate Pilots shouldn't be leaving Emirates, yes they are a bunch of mercenaries but if they are happy mercenaries they don't normally leave. I say that with 30 years of experience dealing with them!
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As "whossyorrynow"s post sadly shows, this forums negative attitude towards EK has been a fact for at least 6 years, in contrast to some of your earlier response that you were perfectly happy 2-3 years ago. It is sad that you let yourself be seduced by the negative image created here, and that you obviously try to persuade more EK staff into this incorrect view of the company.
During those 6 years EK has had fantastic growth, and very little turnover of its staff. If this forums description of reality was correct we would be out of business years ago. As I have stated earlier the turnover has recently increased some from its earlier record low numbers, and this is perfectly normal when the world economy recovers. Dubai, despite all its pleasures and joys are not for everyone and EK totally understands that some want to move back to their native countries if they get a competitive offer.
The higher turnover combined with new aircraft and a situation where EK has to compete with European and American carriers (after their long absence from the jobmarket) to hire new staff has created the current situation where some of EKs pilots have to take on a higher workload. This is not a situation that can be blamed on EKs management as EK don't control the factors that create the current situation. EK will always have a hard time competing against US and Western European carriers when it comes to staff as people always have a higher wish to work in their native country. EK try to compensate this by giving employees compensation packages that is highly competitive, and is very successful in doing so.
According to earlier posts airline personnel (ore anyone else for that matter) won’t do their best unless they are happy and like their job. I think that is totally true. With that in mind it is very pleasing to see that EK has customer satisfaction among the best in the airline world, and that passengers is very loyal to EK as they like the product we can offer.
On this background I strongly disagree with the notion that most EK personnel are not satisfied with their job or work conditions at EK. Your incorrect and inaccurate postings at PPRuNe does not affect EK recruitment severly, but the faulty image created here does make readers of this forum less likely to apply for a position at EK, and that is unfortunate as it is not based on facts.
I am not going to discuss company policy regarding people who is let go because of mishandling on their part. As such cases are strictly personal I think its unprofessional to speculate about what the individual has or has not done. No one is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is in severe breach with regulations.
Regarding the utilities cap neither your or I am lawyers, and I based my posts on the legal view expressed by UAE lawyers on this matter. I think you should do the same as it is not our personal opinion that is relevant for how the contract is to be interpreted. The cap had to be introduced to stop a situation where all of us had to pay for a few employees shedding and excessive usage. This was a problem concerned to villas only, and it would not have been right to introduce a cap for employees not living in accommodation that was the subject of such luxury consumption. EK try to deal with challenges in a just manner, and I think the utilities cap is a perfect example of this.
EK does not, have not, and will not breach any employee contracts. If you don’t agree that this is the case you should take your complaints to the legal system. A change in compensation, rosters and so on does not happen unless it is extraordinarily necessary to ensure your job security and long term sustainability of the company. Emirates have a very strict safety policy that ensures the highest standards, and as a result EK has not had one fatal accident since its startup 25 years ago. It is the flight crew’s job to ensure the safety of each individual flight, and if the flight crew is not able to perform their job at the highest standards they should not be in the air. Any flight crew who does not act in accordance with this directly breaches international and company regulations. However EK cannot accept that flight crew won't abide their scheduled rosters if this is caused by unwillingness to perform your job because of negative attitude.
You argue that problems can't be taken up with the appropriate managers as you don't get the response you want. Of course management can’t do something about all minor complaints, but if you express them in a decent and professional manner and your complaint is shared by a large proportion of the staff it will be taken into consideration. Management staff can of course not comply with all wishes you might have, but try to do their best to ensure a good work environment for all EK employees.
"Kiwi" states a good point in his post. Thinking that you can change anything at EK through a internet forum is naive. Regardless of what position I might ore might not have, a forum like this is not the right place to take your complaints.
During those 6 years EK has had fantastic growth, and very little turnover of its staff. If this forums description of reality was correct we would be out of business years ago. As I have stated earlier the turnover has recently increased some from its earlier record low numbers, and this is perfectly normal when the world economy recovers. Dubai, despite all its pleasures and joys are not for everyone and EK totally understands that some want to move back to their native countries if they get a competitive offer.
The higher turnover combined with new aircraft and a situation where EK has to compete with European and American carriers (after their long absence from the jobmarket) to hire new staff has created the current situation where some of EKs pilots have to take on a higher workload. This is not a situation that can be blamed on EKs management as EK don't control the factors that create the current situation. EK will always have a hard time competing against US and Western European carriers when it comes to staff as people always have a higher wish to work in their native country. EK try to compensate this by giving employees compensation packages that is highly competitive, and is very successful in doing so.
According to earlier posts airline personnel (ore anyone else for that matter) won’t do their best unless they are happy and like their job. I think that is totally true. With that in mind it is very pleasing to see that EK has customer satisfaction among the best in the airline world, and that passengers is very loyal to EK as they like the product we can offer.
On this background I strongly disagree with the notion that most EK personnel are not satisfied with their job or work conditions at EK. Your incorrect and inaccurate postings at PPRuNe does not affect EK recruitment severly, but the faulty image created here does make readers of this forum less likely to apply for a position at EK, and that is unfortunate as it is not based on facts.
I am not going to discuss company policy regarding people who is let go because of mishandling on their part. As such cases are strictly personal I think its unprofessional to speculate about what the individual has or has not done. No one is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is in severe breach with regulations.
Regarding the utilities cap neither your or I am lawyers, and I based my posts on the legal view expressed by UAE lawyers on this matter. I think you should do the same as it is not our personal opinion that is relevant for how the contract is to be interpreted. The cap had to be introduced to stop a situation where all of us had to pay for a few employees shedding and excessive usage. This was a problem concerned to villas only, and it would not have been right to introduce a cap for employees not living in accommodation that was the subject of such luxury consumption. EK try to deal with challenges in a just manner, and I think the utilities cap is a perfect example of this.
EK does not, have not, and will not breach any employee contracts. If you don’t agree that this is the case you should take your complaints to the legal system. A change in compensation, rosters and so on does not happen unless it is extraordinarily necessary to ensure your job security and long term sustainability of the company. Emirates have a very strict safety policy that ensures the highest standards, and as a result EK has not had one fatal accident since its startup 25 years ago. It is the flight crew’s job to ensure the safety of each individual flight, and if the flight crew is not able to perform their job at the highest standards they should not be in the air. Any flight crew who does not act in accordance with this directly breaches international and company regulations. However EK cannot accept that flight crew won't abide their scheduled rosters if this is caused by unwillingness to perform your job because of negative attitude.
You argue that problems can't be taken up with the appropriate managers as you don't get the response you want. Of course management can’t do something about all minor complaints, but if you express them in a decent and professional manner and your complaint is shared by a large proportion of the staff it will be taken into consideration. Management staff can of course not comply with all wishes you might have, but try to do their best to ensure a good work environment for all EK employees.
"Kiwi" states a good point in his post. Thinking that you can change anything at EK through a internet forum is naive. Regardless of what position I might ore might not have, a forum like this is not the right place to take your complaints.
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As it is the flight crew`s responsibility to ensure the safety of each individual flight , what may I ask is management`s responsibility ? You seem so adept at attributing blame to everyone and everything but yourselves. Seems to me like you management types think you can hide behind long-winded statements that actually say nothing but imply everything. We can read between the lines of everything you say. I think you totally underestimate the intelligence of the pilot workforce. If you were held to the same standards of responsibility as pilots are , you would have your license revoked.
I`m a highly experienced wide body Captain that will not be submitting my CV to such a poorly run and managed airline. Good luck EK pilots , you`ll need it.
I`m a highly experienced wide body Captain that will not be submitting my CV to such a poorly run and managed airline. Good luck EK pilots , you`ll need it.
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Sports Background
Mana,
Oh dear, what a diatribe. From all the mistake of spelling and syntax, are you really qualified to communicate from your ivory tower?
Do tell what sports you played at school. I would be most surprised if the list included rugby, because that would require team spirit, co-ordination and commitments to training.
"The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton." Capeesh? I thought not.
Oh dear, what a diatribe. From all the mistake of spelling and syntax, are you really qualified to communicate from your ivory tower?
Do tell what sports you played at school. I would be most surprised if the list included rugby, because that would require team spirit, co-ordination and commitments to training.
"The Battle of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton." Capeesh? I thought not.
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Mana,
I don't often post here although I am a very regular reader.
You are absolutely full of ****.
I have been here 11 years. My contract states clearly that utilities will be paid for - it is not referenced to the employee handbook which is EK's normal method of reducing my terms and conditions.
If you think morale is not at an all time low, may I suggest a line flight. Never know, it may also be a nice change for you.
I am looking at leaving asap - something I would have thought impossible 4 or 5 years ago.
I don't often post here although I am a very regular reader.
You are absolutely full of ****.
I have been here 11 years. My contract states clearly that utilities will be paid for - it is not referenced to the employee handbook which is EK's normal method of reducing my terms and conditions.
If you think morale is not at an all time low, may I suggest a line flight. Never know, it may also be a nice change for you.
I am looking at leaving asap - something I would have thought impossible 4 or 5 years ago.
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Mana:
Your pilot workforce is western. Flying was invented in the west. So was The Queen's English. So is most of current global contract law. In order to obtain legitimate entry in to the world of finance, even the DIFC operates under the British Legal System. This is noteworthy and important, as it shows the high regard placed on such a system. Sadly, our contracts do not fall under this jurisdiction. This is however advantageous for EK.
You may parse that contract changes don't qualify as illegal changes here under UAE Law. You are naive in the extreme to expect a professional workforce of pilots to be happy with forced reversions in terms and conditions at the whim of company management. No one likes to go backwards. Legal or not.
You are posting to attempt to correct some perception that you have that the posts on this forum are innaccurate. Again, you are mistaken. Emirates Airlines pilots are attempting to correct certain misperceptions in the market about this carrier and its treatment of its employees so that prosepctive employees will either be giving consideration, or perhaps even come to EK, armed with facts and truths that these individuals wish they were armed with upon thier entering in to the employ of this company. There is certainly more than a little frustration with the sleight of hand management style. We like to be honest and we expect the same in kind.
A fair day's wage for a fair day's work. That, by tradition has been around 65-80 hours per month, varying a bit depending on the type of operation. When a carrier posts a 406 million USD profit (2008 fiscal year, not the 268 million someone mistakenly quoted earlier), and doesn't give anything back to the employees, instead altering the 'de-facto' conditions of service without consultation then the company is going to face some public outcry.
The internet is a powerful tool. It has suplanted cordial relations between the pilot workforce and management and that genie isn't going back in the bottle. You have pushed us beyond our reasonable limits and a reasonable man is going to fight back with the tools - the only tool he has. That is this forum and I endorse it wholeheartedly as the last stand for pilots at this company.
Your even tempered tone belies the futility of your endeavor.
My loyalty to this company is only as valid as the paper it was written on - and that has been demonstrated to be as whimsical, manipulative, coy and disengenuous as you are.
Don't grow a wish-bone where you should have a backbone.
Your pilot workforce is western. Flying was invented in the west. So was The Queen's English. So is most of current global contract law. In order to obtain legitimate entry in to the world of finance, even the DIFC operates under the British Legal System. This is noteworthy and important, as it shows the high regard placed on such a system. Sadly, our contracts do not fall under this jurisdiction. This is however advantageous for EK.
You may parse that contract changes don't qualify as illegal changes here under UAE Law. You are naive in the extreme to expect a professional workforce of pilots to be happy with forced reversions in terms and conditions at the whim of company management. No one likes to go backwards. Legal or not.
You are posting to attempt to correct some perception that you have that the posts on this forum are innaccurate. Again, you are mistaken. Emirates Airlines pilots are attempting to correct certain misperceptions in the market about this carrier and its treatment of its employees so that prosepctive employees will either be giving consideration, or perhaps even come to EK, armed with facts and truths that these individuals wish they were armed with upon thier entering in to the employ of this company. There is certainly more than a little frustration with the sleight of hand management style. We like to be honest and we expect the same in kind.
A fair day's wage for a fair day's work. That, by tradition has been around 65-80 hours per month, varying a bit depending on the type of operation. When a carrier posts a 406 million USD profit (2008 fiscal year, not the 268 million someone mistakenly quoted earlier), and doesn't give anything back to the employees, instead altering the 'de-facto' conditions of service without consultation then the company is going to face some public outcry.
The internet is a powerful tool. It has suplanted cordial relations between the pilot workforce and management and that genie isn't going back in the bottle. You have pushed us beyond our reasonable limits and a reasonable man is going to fight back with the tools - the only tool he has. That is this forum and I endorse it wholeheartedly as the last stand for pilots at this company.
Your even tempered tone belies the futility of your endeavor.
My loyalty to this company is only as valid as the paper it was written on - and that has been demonstrated to be as whimsical, manipulative, coy and disengenuous as you are.
Don't grow a wish-bone where you should have a backbone.
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I, like "Mister Warning", am also not a frequent poster. I am however quite a frequent reader. I too have been here longer than is required for full provident fund redemption on resignation. I too am looking at getting out of here just as soon as I can. I used to love it here. But the present management and it's attitude leaves me stone cold - for every reason afore-stated. "Mana" epitomises the ignorance and arrogance inherent in management today. Respect is earned - not commanded. Sadly, today's manangement doesn't know what that means.
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Unbelievable! This is my only answer to Mana´s attitude. In stead of trying to listen and understand we only get manage-speak and head burying. Not ONE question answered by this guy! Only propaganda and BS.
This is a timewasting exercise, same as the pilots meetings. Guys, as sad as it is, this guy shows you exactly the "I don´t care about your complaints" attitude of our management. How very, very sad!
Don´t waste your time here anymore, nothing will change because they don´t want to change anything!
This is a timewasting exercise, same as the pilots meetings. Guys, as sad as it is, this guy shows you exactly the "I don´t care about your complaints" attitude of our management. How very, very sad!
Don´t waste your time here anymore, nothing will change because they don´t want to change anything!
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Mana is here to refute our claims because it's making a difference. We know the truth here, please ignore his management drivel and spare others from enduring the disgraceful management treatment of ALL the employee groups within EK.
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A double post but Mana needs to hear the truth,
Mana,
EK is at the point that management feels compelled enough to damage control and post on an internet forum. Very telling situation isn't it? This fact alone should be extremely worrying and as mentioned before is an effect not a cause of the poor morale within EK.
If an individual has a 50-60k yearly drm DEWA bill, perhaps it would be best to isolate the issue not brushstroke the entire villa community and unilaterally alter a contract. When isolated incidences occur don't you think they should be treated as such? This applies to shoot from the hip FCIs, FCNs, SOP's and a plethora of other reactionary changes over the recent years. Take some time to digest the situation and why it happened and how it can be reasonably rectified for a win-win solution.
Cost cutting contract adjustments and productivity increases have been made to the complete disregard for the safety and health of the pilot group. Fatigue is a very serious issue and rosters are stretched to the absolute maximum. The time zone changes, day and night operations and challenges to some of our destinations are not fully appreciated or considered. Just keep your head down, you are lucky to have a job we are told. Good for morale??
The company is disjointed from many outside managers with the job of cost cutting and internal savings. There is very little cohesion or an open door policy of any kind. Come and talk to your manager? You must be joking. It is a very dragonian management style and here we are trying to vent our frustrations. Believe it Mana, this is a fact. It might not seem like it from your office, but look at these posts. It's not idle complaints and bored pilots with nothing better to do. There has been a paradigm shift in the last 5 years and EK is a money making machine, not so much a proud employer of highly motivated and happy employees. Can you imagine the profits if that were the case? One of the frustrating facts is that the foundations are there to make EK a great place to work. However, we are treated and FEEL like a neccessary evil. So just a few suggestions:
Respect our contract and conditions of service, more open and honest dialogue, read the last one again, honor internal transfers by seniority, hire more pilots for greater flexibility and lower the bid window, implement a true non-punitive safety culture, reward us when we sacrifice with pay increases, give us more positive feedback and search for ways of improving morale. It IS important.
Most pilots are willing to help and have done so in great numbers in the past but pay us over a reasonable threshold, not 92 hours. Most pilots have a very professional attitude, give EK their best and want this company to succeed, but you can't keep eroding our working conditions and take advantage of us without an eventual backlash. You have it before you.
But you say we must do this to protect the companies interests and profitability...yes, but to what end Mana? Where does the cost cutting and increase in productivity end? On the very backs of your hard working employees, EK will announce outstanding profits at year end in a couple months. I sincerely hope the pilot group will be compensated for our contributions.
This is not a PPRuNe rogue group of negative pilots spouting off - this is honest feedback and the true realities from your hard working line pilots. EK is in the business of moving people, but it is also in the business of PEOPLE and PEOPLE, not airplanes , is it's most important commodity. I suggest EK start to remember this and quickly.
The honesty above are the facts of this airline, and you sir are naive to think this forum is not a ligitimate outlet to voice our concerns because without a governing body or a real support group for us at EK ,this is ALL we have. With your strong language of professionalism and compliance, I suggest you also abide to the highest standards and fix what is obviously broken. I'd say you have some work to do...
Mana,
EK is at the point that management feels compelled enough to damage control and post on an internet forum. Very telling situation isn't it? This fact alone should be extremely worrying and as mentioned before is an effect not a cause of the poor morale within EK.
If an individual has a 50-60k yearly drm DEWA bill, perhaps it would be best to isolate the issue not brushstroke the entire villa community and unilaterally alter a contract. When isolated incidences occur don't you think they should be treated as such? This applies to shoot from the hip FCIs, FCNs, SOP's and a plethora of other reactionary changes over the recent years. Take some time to digest the situation and why it happened and how it can be reasonably rectified for a win-win solution.
Cost cutting contract adjustments and productivity increases have been made to the complete disregard for the safety and health of the pilot group. Fatigue is a very serious issue and rosters are stretched to the absolute maximum. The time zone changes, day and night operations and challenges to some of our destinations are not fully appreciated or considered. Just keep your head down, you are lucky to have a job we are told. Good for morale??
The company is disjointed from many outside managers with the job of cost cutting and internal savings. There is very little cohesion or an open door policy of any kind. Come and talk to your manager? You must be joking. It is a very dragonian management style and here we are trying to vent our frustrations. Believe it Mana, this is a fact. It might not seem like it from your office, but look at these posts. It's not idle complaints and bored pilots with nothing better to do. There has been a paradigm shift in the last 5 years and EK is a money making machine, not so much a proud employer of highly motivated and happy employees. Can you imagine the profits if that were the case? One of the frustrating facts is that the foundations are there to make EK a great place to work. However, we are treated and FEEL like a neccessary evil. So just a few suggestions:
Respect our contract and conditions of service, more open and honest dialogue, read the last one again, honor internal transfers by seniority, hire more pilots for greater flexibility and lower the bid window, implement a true non-punitive safety culture, reward us when we sacrifice with pay increases, give us more positive feedback and search for ways of improving morale. It IS important.
Most pilots are willing to help and have done so in great numbers in the past but pay us over a reasonable threshold, not 92 hours. Most pilots have a very professional attitude, give EK their best and want this company to succeed, but you can't keep eroding our working conditions and take advantage of us without an eventual backlash. You have it before you.
But you say we must do this to protect the companies interests and profitability...yes, but to what end Mana? Where does the cost cutting and increase in productivity end? On the very backs of your hard working employees, EK will announce outstanding profits at year end in a couple months. I sincerely hope the pilot group will be compensated for our contributions.
This is not a PPRuNe rogue group of negative pilots spouting off - this is honest feedback and the true realities from your hard working line pilots. EK is in the business of moving people, but it is also in the business of PEOPLE and PEOPLE, not airplanes , is it's most important commodity. I suggest EK start to remember this and quickly.
The honesty above are the facts of this airline, and you sir are naive to think this forum is not a ligitimate outlet to voice our concerns because without a governing body or a real support group for us at EK ,this is ALL we have. With your strong language of professionalism and compliance, I suggest you also abide to the highest standards and fix what is obviously broken. I'd say you have some work to do...
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I respectfully suggest everybody step down from warning prospective new hires about the dangers of coming to EK.
It is now totally unnecessary as Mana has taken the job upon him/herself
Regards to all
It is now totally unnecessary as Mana has taken the job upon him/herself
Regards to all
Last edited by kiwi; 14th Mar 2010 at 07:26.
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The dogmatism of the EK management as depicted here by mana(gement) is typical for an uneducated ex-army (navy-whatever) mediocre little man from the midlands. And his team.
Funny that the little man talks about UAE law, a mix of sharia and western law and takes that as a basis for the contract the pilots have signed. Law of the contract is were you signed it, in your country.
Funny that he talks about a totally failed manpower planning, something the little man can not do anything about.
The little, insignificant man has not done anything for the fleet, pilots, employees for the past seven years.
Keep on going with your `pre war Yorkshire hospital` management style.
eventually your time will be up.
Funny that the little man talks about UAE law, a mix of sharia and western law and takes that as a basis for the contract the pilots have signed. Law of the contract is were you signed it, in your country.
Funny that he talks about a totally failed manpower planning, something the little man can not do anything about.
The little, insignificant man has not done anything for the fleet, pilots, employees for the past seven years.
Keep on going with your `pre war Yorkshire hospital` management style.
eventually your time will be up.
The higher turnover combined with new aircraft and a situation where EK has to compete with European and American carriers (after their long absence from the jobmarket) to hire new staff has created the current situation where some of EKs pilots have to take on a higher workload. This is not a situation that can be blamed on EKs management as EK don't control the factors that create the current situation. EK will always have a hard time competing against US and Western European carriers when it comes to staff as people always have a higher wish to work in their native country. EK try to compensate this by giving employees compensation packages that is highly competitive, and is very successful in doing so.
EK did not do any recruiting during a period when aircraft were rolling in and people were leaving. Why? Because they had changed the productivity threshold and thus thought they could man the new aircraft with the same number of crew working 90+ hrs/mth indefinatley.
Not their fault that this simply didn't work? I can tell you first hand that senior members of flight ops told the VPs it couldn't be sustained and were ignored.
As to a competative package, yes, it's still not bad. But how do you explain a situation where the demand for pilots is increasing, yet our package is significantly less than it was previously?
I am not going to discuss company policy regarding people who is let go because of mishandling on their part. As such cases are strictly personal I think its unprofessional to speculate about what the individual has ore has not done. No one is let go at EK unless they have performed actions that is in severe breach with regulations.
Regarding the utilities cap neither your ore I am lawyers, and I based my posts on the legal view expressed by UAE lawyers on this matter. I think you should do the same as it is not our personal opinion that is relevant for how the contract is to be interpreted.
As I said, Mana, if you've pissed ME off to the point of having to point out the flaws in your pro-company ramblings, you've done your case no good at all!
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wow
I, like many of you, am an avid reader but rarely post. However after seeing the posts from our friend "mana" I would like to share my views.
"Leadership" - definition
"The ART of influencing human behaviour in order to accomplish a mission towards a common goal." In my opinion severely lacking in EK.
The current practices of rostering crews for 92 hrs a month remind me of some of the 'safaris' driving down SZR. The red line is NOT a goal! It's a limitation! Sooner or later your going to need some serious work done, or have to change the system.
As far as I'm concerned (with all respect) most pilots have degrees in something from uni or college besides being pilots, most being in business. I don't know about you, but I could sit at a desk and make descisions just like you do, however do you know how to perform a single engine go-around mana? Bottom line is guys we are PROFESSIONALS, and we can't let anyone forget that.
As far as the choice of being here or home, of course we'd all like to be at home. However, we all chose to come here because the "package" was good. Mana, my friend, the package is all relative. If anyone of us could make the same at home we'd be there. Period. And unfortunately the package is sliding very quickly! TC's, hours, fatigue, blah blah, the list go's on! I think EK better wake up before they have a bunch of shiny AC sitting on the ramp with no one to fly them.
Someone else made a good point earlier. They talk about making employees happy. Hmm. Someone threatens to leave, pay them more. Hmm. Roadshow says life in Dubai will be rosy and fun. Hmm. How about retention of the 2200 or so guys and gals filling seats right now here in DXB for you!!!! How about trying to keep the skilled, professional, and talented people you have to keep the airline profitable and more importantly safe!
When I think back to 5 or 6 years ago, if you knew someone who worked at EK, they had made it! You strived to get there, and be a part of something special. Now, I am here, and wish it was as I heard it once was.
Guys and gals, I am proud to fly with each and every one of you. Keep it safe and hopefully one day our friend mana will wake up, talk to his superiors and make this place what it has the potential to be.
Joke.
"Leadership" - definition
"The ART of influencing human behaviour in order to accomplish a mission towards a common goal." In my opinion severely lacking in EK.
The current practices of rostering crews for 92 hrs a month remind me of some of the 'safaris' driving down SZR. The red line is NOT a goal! It's a limitation! Sooner or later your going to need some serious work done, or have to change the system.
As far as I'm concerned (with all respect) most pilots have degrees in something from uni or college besides being pilots, most being in business. I don't know about you, but I could sit at a desk and make descisions just like you do, however do you know how to perform a single engine go-around mana? Bottom line is guys we are PROFESSIONALS, and we can't let anyone forget that.
As far as the choice of being here or home, of course we'd all like to be at home. However, we all chose to come here because the "package" was good. Mana, my friend, the package is all relative. If anyone of us could make the same at home we'd be there. Period. And unfortunately the package is sliding very quickly! TC's, hours, fatigue, blah blah, the list go's on! I think EK better wake up before they have a bunch of shiny AC sitting on the ramp with no one to fly them.
Someone else made a good point earlier. They talk about making employees happy. Hmm. Someone threatens to leave, pay them more. Hmm. Roadshow says life in Dubai will be rosy and fun. Hmm. How about retention of the 2200 or so guys and gals filling seats right now here in DXB for you!!!! How about trying to keep the skilled, professional, and talented people you have to keep the airline profitable and more importantly safe!
When I think back to 5 or 6 years ago, if you knew someone who worked at EK, they had made it! You strived to get there, and be a part of something special. Now, I am here, and wish it was as I heard it once was.
Guys and gals, I am proud to fly with each and every one of you. Keep it safe and hopefully one day our friend mana will wake up, talk to his superiors and make this place what it has the potential to be.
Joke.
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trimotor: Corrected, I depend to heavily on spell check, so when it’s not there for me things start to go wrong .
I have no more to add in relation to other discussion points raised. I have expressed my view, you have expressed yours. I think it’s extremely unfortunate that you see people who view EK in a more positive light than yourself as company ramblers.
We have all acknowledged that EK has several challenges that need to be addressed and that everything is not perfect. I have tried to voice in a polite manner that internet forums is not the right place to take up these issues, and they will not get solved through discussing them here.
EK is one company with employees working together towards one goal. To be the best possible airline. I think it’s discouraging you don't see we are all in this together, and the only way to solve our problems is through cooperation and teamwork. Your view that everyone involved in management are either deaf ore dumb is both counterproductive and totally wrong.
I am happy that the views reflected by the majority of you are not representational for EKs staff, and that the reality experienced luckily differs allot from the one portrayed here. I think EK needs to take measures to ensure that negative views not in accordance with reality is not tolerated, and that such views cannot be allowed to destroy the good working climate at EK. If we could operate in a professional manner and have faith in our co-workers we would all be much better off.
.I have no more to add in relation to other discussion points raised. I have expressed my view, you have expressed yours. I think it’s extremely unfortunate that you see people who view EK in a more positive light than yourself as company ramblers.
We have all acknowledged that EK has several challenges that need to be addressed and that everything is not perfect. I have tried to voice in a polite manner that internet forums is not the right place to take up these issues, and they will not get solved through discussing them here.
EK is one company with employees working together towards one goal. To be the best possible airline. I think it’s discouraging you don't see we are all in this together, and the only way to solve our problems is through cooperation and teamwork. Your view that everyone involved in management are either deaf ore dumb is both counterproductive and totally wrong.
I am happy that the views reflected by the majority of you are not representational for EKs staff, and that the reality experienced luckily differs allot from the one portrayed here. I think EK needs to take measures to ensure that negative views not in accordance with reality is not tolerated, and that such views cannot be allowed to destroy the good working climate at EK. If we could operate in a professional manner and have faith in our co-workers we would all be much better off.