Nepotism in pilot selection
Thread Starter
There are a lot of pilots in Europe willing to take a P2F program or even bribe.
That ''offer'' I had from this instructor was to give 10k cash, plus an overpriced TR, to have a salary of around 1200 euros
Obviously some pilots were taking that offer and I guess it wasn't the only airline with this practice
Why airlines to pay high salaries if so many pilots in Europe are willing to reach that point...
That ''offer'' I had from this instructor was to give 10k cash, plus an overpriced TR, to have a salary of around 1200 euros
Obviously some pilots were taking that offer and I guess it wasn't the only airline with this practice
Why airlines to pay high salaries if so many pilots in Europe are willing to reach that point...
Could you share the name of the company that was accepting bribes?
Join Date: Mar 2023
Location: UK
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No I did not, neither did my friend who is now at ab. He was in the recruitment process pre covid when they were hiring Q400 fo:s and what I can tell about the guy in the sim, he was from our neighbouring country where maybe not all opc`s are that strict. I do not know anybody who has got chosen to an airline with less hours than has been required, I was just telling my opinion with an example from real life, at least to some extent. And as I said, most of the experienced pilots are of course more competent than fresh graduates, but there are rare exceptions. For example if you go through a selection process to your training, where 2 percent of the applicants get chosen, it might be that you have some qualities that are seeked from the airlines also.
That would be much more relevant with this thread rather the story of a failed candidate you posted
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The same was saying a guy in airBaltic topic
There was a conversation about the pilots who were not filling the entry requirements and still got in
As a result just for the ab A220 fleet, there are 3 runway excursions, one AOG due a hard landing (93kt over the runway in AMS hitting the ground above 1200 fpm ) and an incident where an A220 started final descent before FAF and was flying at 600ft AGL in 6,5 NM before the runway threshold, over Brussels city in VMC
There was a conversation about the pilots who were not filling the entry requirements and still got in
As a result just for the ab A220 fleet, there are 3 runway excursions, one AOG due a hard landing (93kt over the runway in AMS hitting the ground above 1200 fpm ) and an incident where an A220 started final descent before FAF and was flying at 600ft AGL in 6,5 NM before the runway threshold, over Brussels city in VMC
Rwy excursions happen for many different reasons than just "pilots hired below published requirements". People make mistakes, all the time, regardless of their hours or previous experience. On the opposite, junior crews with little experience may display above average skills or attitude, even if they do not meet a published requirement.
I conducted my fair share of interviews in my previous career (not aviation related) and yes at times, I asked HR to send job offers to candidates who did not meet all the point of the job description. Not because they bribed me or because I knew the cousin or their godmother, but just because they showed a personality that would fit the team and make their onboarding a lot smoother and faster. A skill can be learned much faster than changing an attitude or a personality trait.
Bottom line is, hiring below a requirement that you publish on a job description is:
1) legal
2) doesn't necessarily mean there is nepotism or bribery. I'd even say these are extrem assumptions but ok...
3) as a hiring manager, you would be dumb to reject someone who displays a great attitude, just because they don't meet 100% of your published requirements. I'm of course not saying that you should disregard completely the requirements, they are here for a reason, which is to filter and give a direction to the applications you receive. But seeing the world as black or white, solely based on job requirements, would be dumb
Thread Starter
How can you be certain these incidents involved the FOs not meeting entry requirements? Do you work at AB? Were you part of the investigations?
Rwy excursions happen for many different reasons than just "pilots hired below published requirements". People make mistakes, all the time, regardless of their hours or previous experience. On the opposite, junior crews with little experience may display above average skills or attitude, even if they do not meet a published requirement.
I conducted my fair share of interviews in my previous career (not aviation related) and yes at times, I asked HR to send job offers to candidates who did not meet all the point of the job description. Not because they bribed me or because I knew the cousin or their godmother, but just because they showed a personality that would fit the team and make their onboarding a lot smoother and faster. A skill can be learned much faster than changing an attitude or a personality trait.
Bottom line is, hiring below a requirement that you publish on a job description is:
1) legal
2) doesn't necessarily mean there is nepotism or bribery. I'd even say these are extrem assumptions but ok...
3) as a hiring manager, you would be dumb to reject someone who displays a great attitude, just because they don't meet 100% of your published requirements. I'm of course not saying that you should disregard completely the requirements, they are here for a reason, which is to filter and give a direction to the applications you receive. But seeing the world as black or white, solely based on job requirements, would be dumb
Rwy excursions happen for many different reasons than just "pilots hired below published requirements". People make mistakes, all the time, regardless of their hours or previous experience. On the opposite, junior crews with little experience may display above average skills or attitude, even if they do not meet a published requirement.
I conducted my fair share of interviews in my previous career (not aviation related) and yes at times, I asked HR to send job offers to candidates who did not meet all the point of the job description. Not because they bribed me or because I knew the cousin or their godmother, but just because they showed a personality that would fit the team and make their onboarding a lot smoother and faster. A skill can be learned much faster than changing an attitude or a personality trait.
Bottom line is, hiring below a requirement that you publish on a job description is:
1) legal
2) doesn't necessarily mean there is nepotism or bribery. I'd even say these are extrem assumptions but ok...
3) as a hiring manager, you would be dumb to reject someone who displays a great attitude, just because they don't meet 100% of your published requirements. I'm of course not saying that you should disregard completely the requirements, they are here for a reason, which is to filter and give a direction to the applications you receive. But seeing the world as black or white, solely based on job requirements, would be dumb
Happy to have in this topic a Czech guy ( you posted that you live and work in Prague) who works for airbaltic as your location is Riga.
Instead of general assumptions you can tell us how they called at the first place the Czech group of pilots who didn’t meet the entry requirements. I don’t have first hand knowledge but there are a lot of posts about it in airbaltic thread and it was one of the reasons to open this thread. You can give useful info as all this fuzz was about you guys.
Regarding your post
1.It’s true AB has quite a lot of pilot related incidents. Since are pilot related there must be something in selection or training or both.
2. At least what I found on google, AB lately had more than 300 pilot candidate’s interviews , why to bother invite the ones who didn’t meet the entry requirements? To waste time and money? They had a ton of CVs I guess, what is reasonable is to pick the ones who meet the requirements. You say they “showed personality” How is that, via the piles of CVs? According the posts at ab thread a whole group of Czechs who didn’t meet the requirements passed, isn’t suspicious?
Regarding the legality, as far as I know, ab is a state company, Latvian tax payers fund it, and no monkey business should happen.
In my last days in the Air Force was interviewing pilot candidates, if I was not following the rules I would be court martialed cause I was working for the state. Laws are varies from country to country but braking regulations in public sector can lead you to serious legal trouble. Anyway I don’t know the exact status of ab.
Of course all these are theories, you can give us a more comprehensive answer. And saying “showed personality” isn’t convincing at least when you apply for a job in a different country supposedly you don’t know the hiring team in person
In my last days in the Air Force was interviewing pilot candidates, if I was not following the rules I would be court martialed cause I was working for the state. Laws are varies from country to country but braking regulations in public sector can lead you to serious legal trouble.
Last edited by BraceBrace; 20th Jun 2023 at 20:24.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You didn’t quote me but I am the OP.
Happy to have in this topic a Czech guy ( you posted that you live and work in Prague) who works for airbaltic as your location is Riga.
Instead of general assumptions you can tell us how they called at the first place the Czech group of pilots who didn’t meet the entry requirements. I don’t have first hand knowledge but there are a lot of posts about it in airbaltic thread and it was one of the reasons to open this thread. You can give useful info as all this fuzz was about you guys.
Regarding your post
1.It’s true AB has quite a lot of pilot related incidents. Since are pilot related there must be something in selection or training or both.
2. At least what I found on google, AB lately had more than 300 pilot candidate’s interviews , why to bother invite the ones who didn’t meet the entry requirements? To waste time and money? They had a ton of CVs I guess, what is reasonable is to pick the ones who meet the requirements. You say they “showed personality” How is that, via the piles of CVs? According the posts at ab thread a whole group of Czechs who didn’t meet the requirements passed, isn’t suspicious?
Regarding the legality, as far as I know, ab is a state company, Latvian tax payers fund it, and no monkey business should happen.
In my last days in the Air Force was interviewing pilot candidates, if I was not following the rules I would be court martialed cause I was working for the state. Laws are varies from country to country but braking regulations in public sector can lead you to serious legal trouble. Anyway I don’t know the exact status of ab.
Of course all these are theories, you can give us a more comprehensive answer. And saying “showed personality” isn’t convincing at least when you apply for a job in a different country supposedly you don’t know the hiring team in person
Happy to have in this topic a Czech guy ( you posted that you live and work in Prague) who works for airbaltic as your location is Riga.
Instead of general assumptions you can tell us how they called at the first place the Czech group of pilots who didn’t meet the entry requirements. I don’t have first hand knowledge but there are a lot of posts about it in airbaltic thread and it was one of the reasons to open this thread. You can give useful info as all this fuzz was about you guys.
Regarding your post
1.It’s true AB has quite a lot of pilot related incidents. Since are pilot related there must be something in selection or training or both.
2. At least what I found on google, AB lately had more than 300 pilot candidate’s interviews , why to bother invite the ones who didn’t meet the entry requirements? To waste time and money? They had a ton of CVs I guess, what is reasonable is to pick the ones who meet the requirements. You say they “showed personality” How is that, via the piles of CVs? According the posts at ab thread a whole group of Czechs who didn’t meet the requirements passed, isn’t suspicious?
Regarding the legality, as far as I know, ab is a state company, Latvian tax payers fund it, and no monkey business should happen.
In my last days in the Air Force was interviewing pilot candidates, if I was not following the rules I would be court martialed cause I was working for the state. Laws are varies from country to country but braking regulations in public sector can lead you to serious legal trouble. Anyway I don’t know the exact status of ab.
Of course all these are theories, you can give us a more comprehensive answer. And saying “showed personality” isn’t convincing at least when you apply for a job in a different country supposedly you don’t know the hiring team in person
Flying for AB does not give me insights into their HR and hiring policies. I just fly their planes, I don't hire pilots. I'm not going to make assumptions on something I don't know.
To my knowledge AB doesn't have more incidents than any other airline. Back to my question, do you have comparative data to support your claim? Were you involved in the investigations? If not, then you are just speculating.
The personality and attitude is something you assess during the interview of course, to see if the candidate will integrate well with your crews. If you want to be flexible on your requirements to allow meeting candidates with interesting profiles, it's up to you. Many employers are not strict on all published requirements for this exact reason. But you seem to see the world as black or white only (if I caricature, I would have guessed you come from the military without you telling us... )
Regarding your speculation that "a whole group of Czechs passed the assessment", I can only tell about my experience:
- I don't see many Czech crews in the crew briefing
- I didn't know anyone at AB when I applied
- I didn't get any shortcut, I met the requirements and had the same assessment as everyone else through my application (online test, then 2 days assessment in Riga with sim, technical interview, HR interview, psychology interview/psychometric tests, and finally management interview). There was no middle man or whatever complotist thing you mentioned in the other post...
- I certainly didn't bribe anyone ( lol, from all your assumptions, I have to admit this one made me laugh
) I can't even afford a TR, so Immagine a bribery...I also did not pay anything for my TR or LT. Just the regular bond as usual for many airlines.I'm not sure this will satisfy your hunger for plots but please chill and stop seeing tricks everywhere. I got rejected by other airlines, with no responses, no feedback. I just forget about it and move on. Trust me life is easier like that
Thread Starter
Not all people living in Prague are Czechs. Including me.
Flying for AB does not give me insights into their HR and hiring policies. I just fly their planes, I don't hire pilots. I'm not going to make assumptions on something I don't know.
To my knowledge AB doesn't have more incidents than any other airline. Back to my question, do you have comparative data to support your claim? Were you involved in the investigations? If not, then you are just speculating.
The personality and attitude is something you assess during the interview of course, to see if the candidate will integrate well with your crews. If you want to be flexible on your requirements to allow meeting candidates with interesting profiles, it's up to you. Many employers are not strict on all published requirements for this exact reason. But you seem to see the world as black or white only (if I caricature, I would have guessed you come from the military without you telling us... )
Regarding your speculation that "a whole group of Czechs passed the assessment", I can only tell about my experience:
- I don't see many Czech crews in the crew briefing
- I didn't know anyone at AB when I applied
- I didn't get any shortcut, I met the requirements and had the same assessment as everyone else through my application (online test, then 2 days assessment in Riga with sim, technical interview, HR interview, psychology interview/psychometric tests, and finally management interview). There was no middle man or whatever complotist thing you mentioned in the other post...
- I certainly didn't bribe anyone ( lol, from all your assumptions, I have to admit this one made me laugh) I can't even afford a TR, so Immagine a bribery...I also did not pay anything for my TR or LT. Just the regular bond as usual for many airlines.
I'm not sure this will satisfy your hunger for plots but please chill and stop seeing tricks everywhere. I got rejected by other airlines, with no responses, no feedback. I just forget about it and move on. Trust me life is easier like that
Flying for AB does not give me insights into their HR and hiring policies. I just fly their planes, I don't hire pilots. I'm not going to make assumptions on something I don't know.
To my knowledge AB doesn't have more incidents than any other airline. Back to my question, do you have comparative data to support your claim? Were you involved in the investigations? If not, then you are just speculating.
The personality and attitude is something you assess during the interview of course, to see if the candidate will integrate well with your crews. If you want to be flexible on your requirements to allow meeting candidates with interesting profiles, it's up to you. Many employers are not strict on all published requirements for this exact reason. But you seem to see the world as black or white only (if I caricature, I would have guessed you come from the military without you telling us... )
Regarding your speculation that "a whole group of Czechs passed the assessment", I can only tell about my experience:
- I don't see many Czech crews in the crew briefing
- I didn't know anyone at AB when I applied
- I didn't get any shortcut, I met the requirements and had the same assessment as everyone else through my application (online test, then 2 days assessment in Riga with sim, technical interview, HR interview, psychology interview/psychometric tests, and finally management interview). There was no middle man or whatever complotist thing you mentioned in the other post...
- I certainly didn't bribe anyone ( lol, from all your assumptions, I have to admit this one made me laugh
) I can't even afford a TR, so Immagine a bribery...I also did not pay anything for my TR or LT. Just the regular bond as usual for many airlines.I'm not sure this will satisfy your hunger for plots but please chill and stop seeing tricks everywhere. I got rejected by other airlines, with no responses, no feedback. I just forget about it and move on. Trust me life is easier like that
I highlighted the interesting part of your post.
For the recruiters to assess the personality and attitude, have to invite you first.
How to invite someone who doesn’t meet the requirements? Cause he has a nice photo in the CV? CVs are about certifications and experience. Under transparent procedures, you have what they ask, they call you, you don’t have, they take your CV off the piles and throw it to the recycle. Otherwise each company would have to call thousands off people in each job opening just to check if they have a nice personality.
btw in airbaltic thread were posts regarding people who were not invited cause didn’t meet entry requirements. Logical assumption is that there was something “special” about these candidates and I don’t think it was their personality which made the hiring team to take their CV out of the piles and invite them despite the fact they didn’t meet entry requirements
And lastly, at ab topic some posters say that Czech pilots who got hired were flying L410 which is not FMS, EFIS etc, as ab asks, can you confirm that?
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My only knowledge about airbaltic comes from the relevant thread in this forum and some google search. Seems it’s the first case of smoking gun found that’s why I mentioned it here and the purpose of that thread is to make a list of companies who act differently from those that publish. I shared my experience from another company but in that case weren’t any written requirements, so no hard evidence of nepotism.
I highlighted the interesting part of your post.
For the recruiters to assess the personality and attitude, have to invite you first.
How to invite someone who doesn’t meet the requirements? Cause he has a nice photo in the CV? CVs are about certifications and experience. Under transparent procedures, you have what they ask, they call you, you don’t have, they take your CV off the piles and throw it to the recycle. Otherwise each company would have to call thousands off people in each job opening just to check if they have a nice personality.
btw in airbaltic thread were posts regarding people who were not invited cause didn’t meet entry requirements. Logical assumption is that there was something “special” about these candidates and I don’t think it was their personality which made the hiring team to take their CV out of the piles and invite them despite the fact they didn’t meet entry requirements
And lastly, at ab topic some posters say that Czech pilots who got hired were flying L410 which is not FMS, EFIS etc, as ab asks, can you confirm that?
I highlighted the interesting part of your post.
For the recruiters to assess the personality and attitude, have to invite you first.
How to invite someone who doesn’t meet the requirements? Cause he has a nice photo in the CV? CVs are about certifications and experience. Under transparent procedures, you have what they ask, they call you, you don’t have, they take your CV off the piles and throw it to the recycle. Otherwise each company would have to call thousands off people in each job opening just to check if they have a nice personality.
btw in airbaltic thread were posts regarding people who were not invited cause didn’t meet entry requirements. Logical assumption is that there was something “special” about these candidates and I don’t think it was their personality which made the hiring team to take their CV out of the piles and invite them despite the fact they didn’t meet entry requirements
And lastly, at ab topic some posters say that Czech pilots who got hired were flying L410 which is not FMS, EFIS etc, as ab asks, can you confirm that?
, yes even Van Air has one Let with EFIS, FMA, FMS etcetc but retrofitted) True that the bush flying ones in Africa and Siberia probably aren't equiped with those. But I don't know more about those. The ones from Air Guyane though also have autopilot, EFIS and FMA, despite doing a bit of bush flying.So my educated guess is that it can meet AB's requirements.
From the CV you can tick the boxes for the technical requirements, but you can also draw someone's profile. Like past experiences, outside of aviation, life experiences, studies, hobbies. Again, I'm no pilot recruiter so maybe it is different when hiring crews. But when I was recruiting, if I would get a CV with only qualifications matching my requirements, and no other information on the candidate regarding previous experience, hobbies and other non-job related info, I would put it last on my pile as I don't have enough information to assess if we will "click" with the candidate.
Bottom line is that you're not hiring a robot who ticks all your boxes or doesn't. You're hiring your future colleague with whom you'll have to work, with whom you'll have lunch breaks, with whom you'll spend a lot of time with. If you hire a person who ticks all the boxes, a genius in his field, but who's a total di*k with no affinities with the team, you set yourself up for failure.
But that's just my view on recruiting. Some companies may think otherwise and fair enough, it's up to them.
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Germany
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not all people living in Prague are Czechs. Including me.
Flying for AB does not give me insights into their HR and hiring policies. I just fly their planes, I don't hire pilots. I'm not going to make assumptions on something I don't know.
To my knowledge AB doesn't have more incidents than any other airline. Back to my question, do you have comparative data to support your claim? Were you involved in the investigations? If not, then you are just speculating.
The personality and attitude is something you assess during the interview of course, to see if the candidate will integrate well with your crews. If you want to be flexible on your requirements to allow meeting candidates with interesting profiles, it's up to you. Many employers are not strict on all published requirements for this exact reason. But you seem to see the world as black or white only (if I caricature, I would have guessed you come from the military without you telling us... )
Regarding your speculation that "a whole group of Czechs passed the assessment", I can only tell about my experience:
- I don't see many Czech crews in the crew briefing
- I didn't know anyone at AB when I applied
- I didn't get any shortcut, I met the requirements and had the same assessment as everyone else through my application (online test, then 2 days assessment in Riga with sim, technical interview, HR interview, psychology interview/psychometric tests, and finally management interview). There was no middle man or whatever complotist thing you mentioned in the other post...
- I certainly didn't bribe anyone ( lol, from all your assumptions, I have to admit this one made me laugh) I can't even afford a TR, so Immagine a bribery...I also did not pay anything for my TR or LT. Just the regular bond as usual for many airlines.
I'm not sure this will satisfy your hunger for plots but please chill and stop seeing tricks everywhere. I got rejected by other airlines, with no responses, no feedback. I just forget about it and move on. Trust me life is easier like that
Flying for AB does not give me insights into their HR and hiring policies. I just fly their planes, I don't hire pilots. I'm not going to make assumptions on something I don't know.
To my knowledge AB doesn't have more incidents than any other airline. Back to my question, do you have comparative data to support your claim? Were you involved in the investigations? If not, then you are just speculating.
The personality and attitude is something you assess during the interview of course, to see if the candidate will integrate well with your crews. If you want to be flexible on your requirements to allow meeting candidates with interesting profiles, it's up to you. Many employers are not strict on all published requirements for this exact reason. But you seem to see the world as black or white only (if I caricature, I would have guessed you come from the military without you telling us... )
Regarding your speculation that "a whole group of Czechs passed the assessment", I can only tell about my experience:
- I don't see many Czech crews in the crew briefing
- I didn't know anyone at AB when I applied
- I didn't get any shortcut, I met the requirements and had the same assessment as everyone else through my application (online test, then 2 days assessment in Riga with sim, technical interview, HR interview, psychology interview/psychometric tests, and finally management interview). There was no middle man or whatever complotist thing you mentioned in the other post...
- I certainly didn't bribe anyone ( lol, from all your assumptions, I have to admit this one made me laugh
) I can't even afford a TR, so Immagine a bribery...I also did not pay anything for my TR or LT. Just the regular bond as usual for many airlines.I'm not sure this will satisfy your hunger for plots but please chill and stop seeing tricks everywhere. I got rejected by other airlines, with no responses, no feedback. I just forget about it and move on. Trust me life is easier like that
What is your opinion for the massive hiring of Czech VanAir pilots who were flying the LET410 before? It didn't cover the requirements of AB for EFIS/FMS experience.
Did they call them cause looked nice guys?
How did they figure it out, by reading their CVs?
If I was in any HR team I would be annoyed with the candidates who send without having the requirements, would be useless extra work for me. That's why I don't send if I don't meet the entry requirements.
A year ago, when AB opened positions were still a lot of experienced unemployed pilots due of covid and war in the Ukraine, I don't think adequate candidates were less than the positions offered
Thread Starter
Commercial aviation is not the Air Force. No commercial pilot ever declared an "oath of enlistment". No commercial pilot "salutes" his chief pilots or any higher ranked person. You're making completely wrong comparisons. It's a simple negociated contract between an employer and an employee to do a job.
Maybe in the above case there is some legal issues since is a state company and receives tax money. Citizens pay for the brand new A220 and every second month or so they have a broken one due to pilot mistakes. If pilot selection is not in accordance with written regulations then it is a public employee misconduct which can have legal consequences. Said before that what I know for this company comes from a his forum, can’t be sure. It’s a forum not a court room
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually, I don't recall meeting a single Czech FO yet in the briefing room...I wish, cos I like Czech people, I spent my fair share of time in Praha Also written just above, Van Air has Lets with EFIS, AP etcetc, so this experience can meet AB's requirements. Not sure why you keep claiming otherwise. Yes they have planes without EFIS in their fleet but that doesn't mean the pilots there don't get the experience on both. And your claim of "a middle man" at AB...lol Guys I know people from Van Air, it's a small acmi airline they don't even have a middle man for themselves!
I'm not defending AB here, I'm just stating what I see. And it's not what you are writing about. That's it, no more no less.
But I feel you guys are going to keep looking for something anyway, so enjoy. I'm done here
Thread Starter
Why laughing with the bribe assumption?
What is your opinion for the massive hiring of Czech VanAir pilots who were flying the LET410 before? It didn't cover the requirements of AB for EFIS/FMS experience.
Did they call them cause looked nice guys?
How did they figure it out, by reading their CVs?
If I was in any HR team I would be annoyed with the candidates who send without having the requirements, would be useless extra work for me. That's why I don't send if I don't meet the entry requirements.
A year ago, when AB opened positions were still a lot of experienced unemployed pilots due of covid and war in the Ukraine, I don't think adequate candidates were less than the positions offered
What is your opinion for the massive hiring of Czech VanAir pilots who were flying the LET410 before? It didn't cover the requirements of AB for EFIS/FMS experience.
Did they call them cause looked nice guys?
How did they figure it out, by reading their CVs?
If I was in any HR team I would be annoyed with the candidates who send without having the requirements, would be useless extra work for me. That's why I don't send if I don't meet the entry requirements.
A year ago, when AB opened positions were still a lot of experienced unemployed pilots due of covid and war in the Ukraine, I don't think adequate candidates were less than the positions offered
If hired a number of pilots from a specific company and all of them were not filling the entry requirements then this indicates something organised
Thread Starter
Again you're asking me to confirm things I cannot know, so I'm not going to do that. I don't know these Czech pilots you are refering to. But I know a bit about the Let, having lived in CZ for a while. It's a CS-25 aircraft. Some are EFIS equiped (from factory or retrofitted) with autopilot and FMA. Especially the ones operated in commercial pax in Europe (and to anticipate your next question that I see coming Sherlock , yes even Van Air has one Let with EFIS, FMA, FMS etcetc but retrofitted) True that the bush flying ones in Africa and Siberia probably aren't equiped with those. But I don't know more about those. The ones from Air Guyane though also have autopilot, EFIS and FMA, despite doing a bit of bush flying.
So my educated guess is that it can meet AB's requirements.
From the CV you can tick the boxes for the technical requirements, but you can also draw someone's profile. Like past experiences, outside of aviation, life experiences, studies, hobbies. Again, I'm no pilot recruiter so maybe it is different when hiring crews. But when I was recruiting, if I would get a CV with only qualifications matching my requirements, and no other information on the candidate regarding previous experience, hobbies and other non-job related info, I would put it last on my pile as I don't have enough information to assess if we will "click" with the candidate.
Bottom line is that you're not hiring a robot who ticks all your boxes or doesn't. You're hiring your future colleague with whom you'll have to work, with whom you'll have lunch breaks, with whom you'll spend a lot of time with. If you hire a person who ticks all the boxes, a genius in his field, but who's a total di*k with no affinities with the team, you set yourself up for failure.
But that's just my view on recruiting. Some companies may think otherwise and fair enough, it's up to them.
, yes even Van Air has one Let with EFIS, FMA, FMS etcetc but retrofitted) True that the bush flying ones in Africa and Siberia probably aren't equiped with those. But I don't know more about those. The ones from Air Guyane though also have autopilot, EFIS and FMA, despite doing a bit of bush flying.So my educated guess is that it can meet AB's requirements.
From the CV you can tick the boxes for the technical requirements, but you can also draw someone's profile. Like past experiences, outside of aviation, life experiences, studies, hobbies. Again, I'm no pilot recruiter so maybe it is different when hiring crews. But when I was recruiting, if I would get a CV with only qualifications matching my requirements, and no other information on the candidate regarding previous experience, hobbies and other non-job related info, I would put it last on my pile as I don't have enough information to assess if we will "click" with the candidate.
Bottom line is that you're not hiring a robot who ticks all your boxes or doesn't. You're hiring your future colleague with whom you'll have to work, with whom you'll have lunch breaks, with whom you'll spend a lot of time with. If you hire a person who ticks all the boxes, a genius in his field, but who's a total di*k with no affinities with the team, you set yourself up for failure.
But that's just my view on recruiting. Some companies may think otherwise and fair enough, it's up to them.
In airbaltic thread someone posted a photo of OK-LAZ, VanAir L410
No EFIS and of course no FMS
You are free to upload photos with visible registration number, till then you are a misinformation poster
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Northern Europe
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even mediocre pilot with solid experience will be much safer than fresh cpl holder with the best knowledge of atpl's and airplane systems.
People at HR are kids on first time job accompanied by office pilots that couln't handle everyday flying. They think autopilot flies an airplane and in case it fails there is a captain to take over. According to them , FO is simply a rudiment required by outdated law. Why would they need to hire experienced FO that will ask for better conditions and salary when there is a kid from let410 that will lick their bottom and not complain for a few years just to be replaced by another expendabale kid after a couple of years.
Prove me wrong , but recent incident involving motivated instagram pilots almost crashing fully functional a220 in day VMC is my argument.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: EU
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Again you're asking me to confirm things I cannot know, so I'm not going to do that. I don't know these Czech pilots you are refering to. But I know a bit about the Let, having lived in CZ for a while. It's a CS-25 aircraft. Some are EFIS equiped (from factory or retrofitted) with autopilot and FMA. Especially the ones operated in commercial pax in Europe (and to anticipate your next question that I see coming Sherlock , yes even Van Air has one Let with EFIS, FMA, FMS etcetc but retrofitted) True that the bush flying ones in Africa and Siberia probably aren't equiped with those. But I don't know more about those. The ones from Air Guyane though also have autopilot, EFIS and FMA, despite doing a bit of bush flying.
So my educated guess is that it can meet AB's requirements.
From the CV you can tick the boxes for the technical requirements, but you can also draw someone's profile. Like past experiences, outside of aviation, life experiences, studies, hobbies. Again, I'm no pilot recruiter so maybe it is different when hiring crews. But when I was recruiting, if I would get a CV with only qualifications matching my requirements, and no other information on the candidate regarding previous experience, hobbies and other non-job related info, I would put it last on my pile as I don't have enough information to assess if we will "click" with the candidate.
Bottom line is that you're not hiring a robot who ticks all your boxes or doesn't. You're hiring your future colleague with whom you'll have to work, with whom you'll have lunch breaks, with whom you'll spend a lot of time with. If you hire a person who ticks all the boxes, a genius in his field, but who's a total di*k with no affinities with the team, you set yourself up for failure.
But that's just my view on recruiting. Some companies may think otherwise and fair enough, it's up to them.
, yes even Van Air has one Let with EFIS, FMA, FMS etcetc but retrofitted) True that the bush flying ones in Africa and Siberia probably aren't equiped with those. But I don't know more about those. The ones from Air Guyane though also have autopilot, EFIS and FMA, despite doing a bit of bush flying.So my educated guess is that it can meet AB's requirements.
From the CV you can tick the boxes for the technical requirements, but you can also draw someone's profile. Like past experiences, outside of aviation, life experiences, studies, hobbies. Again, I'm no pilot recruiter so maybe it is different when hiring crews. But when I was recruiting, if I would get a CV with only qualifications matching my requirements, and no other information on the candidate regarding previous experience, hobbies and other non-job related info, I would put it last on my pile as I don't have enough information to assess if we will "click" with the candidate.
Bottom line is that you're not hiring a robot who ticks all your boxes or doesn't. You're hiring your future colleague with whom you'll have to work, with whom you'll have lunch breaks, with whom you'll spend a lot of time with. If you hire a person who ticks all the boxes, a genius in his field, but who's a total di*k with no affinities with the team, you set yourself up for failure.
But that's just my view on recruiting. Some companies may think otherwise and fair enough, it's up to them.
If you were flying it (I believe you actually did after all these faulty information you try to pass) and you don't know the airworthiness requirement category, you are a danger in the sky.
And furthermore you are discrediting the company that hired you
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LET 410 is CS-23 aircraft.
If you were flying it (I believe you actually did after all these faulty information you try to pass) and you don't know the airworthiness requirement category, you are a danger in the sky.
And furthermore you are discrediting the company that hired you
If you were flying it (I believe you actually did after all these faulty information you try to pass) and you don't know the airworthiness requirement category, you are a danger in the sky.
And furthermore you are discrediting the company that hired you
@manekse I have a picture for you but I can't upload it, don't have yet 8 posts. I don't spam you all enough apparently
just check-out OK-VAA
Thread Starter
Allright, before going all drama queen on being a danger in the sky, did you know a CS-23 can be operated under regulations of a CS-25? Which many CS-23 planes in pax operations are doing, Jet31, Let, Beech1900d to name just a few. Van Air operates under these standards. But please don't ask me to pull out their EASA cert docs, I just know people there, I'm not going to be your own private investigator.
@manekse I have a picture for you but I can't upload it, don't have yet 8 posts. I don't spam you all enough apparently just check-out OK-VAA
@manekse I have a picture for you but I can't upload it, don't have yet 8 posts. I don't spam you all enough apparently
just check-out OK-VAAJoin Date: Oct 2016
Location: Riga
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lol man that's not my picture, I'm not going to ask for a detailed flight deck photo reportage...There is an EFIS and nav source FMS2 visible on the pic.
I'll send you the pic on PM, you can post it here.
But I somehow suspect that whatever I send you will not be enough for your appetite
Anyway guys, this has been fun, but as I said I'm done here, I have a life.
You can keep looking for all the plots you want since you seem to have all the time in the world.
Again, I'm not defending AB, Van Air or anyone, I couldn't care less. I just shared what I see and know, no more, no less. And from what I saw, from my humble position of flight crew only, there is no sign of nepotism, bribery or big chunk of Czech guys from Van Air not meeting requirements etcetc.
But, I feel that regardless of the information posted here, your minds are set on finding a smoking gun anyway. So I'm out of this thread and I wish you fun in your investigative endeavours.
I'll send you the pic on PM, you can post it here.
But I somehow suspect that whatever I send you will not be enough for your appetite
Anyway guys, this has been fun, but as I said I'm done here, I have a life.
You can keep looking for all the plots you want since you seem to have all the time in the world.
Again, I'm not defending AB, Van Air or anyone, I couldn't care less. I just shared what I see and know, no more, no less. And from what I saw, from my humble position of flight crew only, there is no sign of nepotism, bribery or big chunk of Czech guys from Van Air not meeting requirements etcetc.
But, I feel that regardless of the information posted here, your minds are set on finding a smoking gun anyway. So I'm out of this thread and I wish you fun in your investigative endeavours.
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: EU
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by OKSUP;[url=tel:11454907
11454907[/url]]Allright, before going all drama queen on being a danger in the sky, did you know a CS-23 can be operated under regulations of a CS-25? Which many CS-23 planes in pax operations are doing, Jet31, Let, Beech1900d to name just a few. Van Air operates under these standards. But please don't ask me to pull out their EASA cert docs, I just know people there, I'm not going to be your own private investigator.
@manekse I have a picture for you but I can't upload it, don't have yet 8 posts. I don't spam you all enough apparently just check-out OK-VAA
@manekse I have a picture for you but I can't upload it, don't have yet 8 posts. I don't spam you all enough apparently
just check-out OK-VAAAre you suffering some strange allergy reaction to facts?
You faulty wrote that LET410 is a CS-25 aircraft and I quoted you that LET410 is a CS-23 aircraft, which is the correct category according to EASA books. Why are you going hysterical?
I am really curious to see a picture of FMS installed in a L410