BA CC industrial relations (current airline staff only)

[Yellow Pen]

If some crews can do it so well why do others struggle? It clearly can be done well, so why not consistently well?

[PC767]

May I dare to suggest that is the passengers who are not consistent.

As is their right, they tend to have adhoc requests, wish to engage in conversation, have problems for crew to sort, eat at different speeds, drink different amounts, have many different needs from the inflight experience etc.

Unlike service routines which are written in offices and tested on willing watersiders, who sit and observe the script.

Passengers are human, not guinea pigs. Perhaps the problem is that the service is inflexible and does not take into account adhoc needs and problems, perhaps this is where extra hands on deck are a bonus.

The service works well when everything else works well, in all cabins. If all the equipment is working, if all the product is available and if passengers are in the mood to take just what is given then service can be consistent. However we all know the reality...

And maybe this is where some crew excel over others. Thinking outside the box and going the so called extra mile to make things work. An area of goodwill which has suffered under Walsh's civil war.

[Middy]

PC767 I appreciate your thoughts but sooooooo boring !!!!

This had never been Mr Walsh's civil war but support form The City who want the company back where it should be on the FTSE 100 index and have supplied funds to do just that.

This is now the real world of aviation and individuals are welcome to join it or not. Their choice. BASSA simply do not like being told what to do after so many years pulling the strings.

Bruised ego's do not make a company successful and keep thousands of hard working staff across all areas employed. The future is everthing for us all and BASSA need to wake up and work alongside many others to keep us all in a job.

If people do not like that then they can leave and discover what a tough world we really live in today.

[PC767]

Who states that the company has a right to be on the FTSE 100 index. If the company sorted its problems out and performed well enough it would earn a place there. And do you really believe a group of cabin crew are the difference between being where we are or being back in the FTSE 100.

I'm sure both Bassa and Unite would be delighted to work with Mr Williams, however despite their requests and his comments that he is willing, nobody is talking.

Finally, I think most crew are aware of life in the real world, they actually live in it, and that is why they fear for their futures. Striking may well not be the right answer (and I didn't), but rolling over and watching safeguards, wages and work disappear isn't either.

Editted to add, I do not find the needs of the passengers I serve boring, nor the uncertain future I face.

[GayGourmet]

Unlike service routines which are written in offices and tested on willing watersiders, who sit and observe the script.

Sorry PC767, I do understand this perception, but this is not the whole picture when it comes to evaluating new products and services. In the past BA had to consult Unite and were often frustrated by their resistance to change for customer benefit.

And just to clarify, while ww crew should be proud of their 92% customer satisfaction scores, Club World London City crew (who are LGW based) achieve 95-97% every month. There are 3 crew for 32 customers and they plate up meals, deliver media players to all customers, mix cocktails, among other unique service elements.

I'm not being argumentative, just wanted to share some stats that may not be available to all, and make the point that exceptional levels of service are achievable with the right attitude from the crew.

I believe the majority of BA crew (wherever they are based) are extremely talented. But there are still a number who let the side down.

[VintageKrug]

GG: In the past BA had to talk to Unite and were constantly frustrated by their resistance to change for customer benefit. Involving unite has proved time and again to be the least effective way to re-design service on board.

Evidence to support GG's statement:

Here is the HotTowelGate link:

. LGW/LHR - 29/01/09 Hot Towels

And here is ClubWorldLondonCityGate:

. LGW - 24/07/09 - Fisher - LCY Update

you can see that BA originally wanted a la carte dining for London City, but it "wouldn't work" according to BASSA. Here:

. LGW - 27/07/09 - Fisher - Failure to Agree

you can see that Unite originally wanted Cabin Crew to have 24 hours rest in Ireland after operating the arduous (less than one hour!) LCY-SNN service.

While there may have been a few valid points in all that, it's just no way to operate a modern business.

[kangaroojack]

Oh, wow....so it really is true re the 'hot towel issue' in traveller +...I'm shocked, totally, totally astounded!

Now, if I was a member of Cabin Crew I would be extremely embarassed if I was approached about this outside the company. An extra crew member onboard for a task that takes 'minutes'?????????????

I dare anyone, even the BASSA diehards to come on here and defend this.

I'm surprised the media did'nt get a hold of this during the dispute to show all and sundry the level of militancy and 1970's union mentality, though, even back then, it would have received the 'you what' response!

Oh dear. I thought I had a clear picture of what we are up against, clearly I was wrong. I was 'kinda' hoping that this was a fictional case. What a lot of !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fargoo]

Ref the Fisher (LCY) servce, i've read that link and can't see any problem with the Unite side of it at all. Far from them rejecting an a la carte service it clearly says

Originally BA brands wanted ‘a la carte’ flexible dining for 32 people. Some initial trials were done and it was obvious that this was not achievable with 3 crew. BA believe that 3 crew can deliver a Club World service however. The aircraft delivery is the problem as we will not be able to do many trials. The aircraft will be similar to the A319 however.

Seems to be reasonable to shelve an original idea if trials show it's unworkable.

[fly12345]

Hot towels in WT+ have been done on every flight I have operated.
No problem.

[jetset lady]

So not only do you completely ignore my explanation of, as you so quaintly call it, "ClubWorldLondonCityGate" VintageKrug, but you then go on to post the same incorrect information on another thread. Re-posting it here won't make it any closer to the truth than it was on the passenger thread.

[twinboom]

hello fly1-to-5. Alas not on the recent, in all other respects most satisfactory, LHR-DEL-LHR, 747 out / 777 back on which I was a (full fare paying....) WT+ Pax and, before anyone asks yes: I am current Airline Crew so qualified to post.
My annual trip, in Prem Econ, to the S.Hemisphere is normally on the VS competition. Now of course I didn't choose them for that reason (actually their ff programme is greatly superior so if one doesn't need truly World Wide coverage then it is a no-brainer) but one does get, inter alia, the Hot Towel served - like everything else - with a Smiley face. Theres a clue.

[Glamgirl]

Now, now, everyone. This thread is about BA CC and terms & conditions, aka strike issues. Posters here are now moving into childish territory, talking about whether hot towels etc should be "permissible" for CC to do during a flight.

I do notice that certain posters talk about how difficult the service can be, considering the reduced crewing levels, however I also notice the "implied" lack of team work in regards to other cabins. By this I mean if Club finishes the service first, the crew help in other cabins, and the same goes for the WT crew. It seems it's a WW "thing" to only stay in their allocated cabins, whereas at LGW we muck in wherever needed.

Having said the above, I think we need to re-focus on the issues at hand, ie whether the next ballot will be legal or not and so on and so forth.

VK, as we all can see, you are rather good at some research, however, when crew tell you what the real story is, please accept it.

[Abbey Road]

Having said the above, I think we need to re-focus on the issues at hand, ie whether the next ballot will be legal or not and so on and so forth.

Unite and BASSA may be able to produce a legal ballot. What is seriously in doubt is whether any strike action will be protected - there is a big difference!

Given that public communications from both Unite and BASSA have constantly gone on about the links between any forthcoming strike and those that have already taken place, the considered opinion is that a forthcoming strike would not be protected. The 12 week zone has come ..... and long gone! The first folk to strike would be propelled on their way out of the door, sharpish, with P45 to quickly follow! And vexatious ballots, with no intention of actually striking, but merely to allegedly damage BA's business, are also likely to fall foul of the law. Either way, BASSA and Unite are up the creek ..... and the paddles disappeared ages ago!

Len McCluskey's 'threats' are mere posturing - he hasn't a hope of getting BA to change it's position.

[MissM]

Abbey Road

Not the P45 rumour again, please. Even before the first strike in March last year there were rumours that anyone going on strike would be issued their P45.

If BA would have any intention of actually going ahead with it surely they would have issued them earlier when they had the chance? Why have they gone to court on several occassions for an injuction when they instead could have allowed us to go on strike and issue our P45?

[Wirbelsturm]

If BA would have any intention of actually going ahead with it surely they would have issued them earlier when they had the chance? Why have they gone to court on several occassions for an injuction when they instead could have allowed us to go on strike and issue our P45?

Because BA has a legal right and responsibility to pursue all avenues to prevent damaging action that could impact the value attributed to the share holders.

Nothing to do with being caring but everything to do with ensuring that all avenues have been explored prior to contentious action being taken. Now that the courts have upheld ASLF's and the RMT's complaint against legal injunctions I feel we might see what pans out if another strike is called.

[Juan Tugoh]

If BA would have any intention of actually going ahead with it surely they would have issued them earlier when they had the chance? Why have they gone to court on several occassions for an injuction when they instead could have allowed us to go on strike and issue our P45?

I think, perhaps, it is more pertinent that UNITE have up until now managed to run protected strikes. The issues being used as a reason for further IA are not separate from the last action, this means that there is a real possibility that the strikers may be sacked without it automatically being deemed unfair dismissal. Similarly the costs incurred by BA (including losses incurred as a result of the IA) can be reclaimed form the union. The situation is different from previous strikes.

I do not think that BA will resort to sacking but I think they will go after UNITE for costs. There is no particular benefit to BA to sack strikers, there is a large financial reason to go after the union. Indeed it could be argued that the Board would be acting irresponsibly if it were not to go after the union for costs.

Just because they haven't done it so far doesn't mean they won't this time. The situation and the legalities are different this time. Gambling your job on the weak premise that they won't sack because they haven't done so far would be stupid, just plain stupid.

[MissM]

Are you saying that BA would sack thousands of cabin crew if we go on strike again? I doubt it very much as they wouldn't be able to run a full operation for months if they did.

I can't see anything wrong with fighting for a good cause instead of doing nothing and hoping it goes away sooner or later. At least some of us are supporting our union, which is the reason to our terms and conditions, unlike some who are doing nothing and relying on us that we are doing it on their behalf.

Crew on Mixed Fleet are getting a 747 license. Why? I was under the impression they would be operating only on A320 and 777. There's another sign that management really can't be trusted.

[Smell the Coffee]

Crew on Mixed Fleet are getting a 747 license. Why? I was under the impression they would be operating only on A320 and 777. There's another sign that management really can't be trusted.

I don't believe the 747 licence was ever under any question.

Having MF on all 3 aircraft makes sense - total flexibility to operate across most of the BA network.

I don't remember reading or hearing anything to the contrary.

BA made it obvious why it wanted to create MF. To save money. It does not surprise me therefore, that MF are getting trained on the 747 from April.

[Sporran]

Miss M,

Try looking at the situation from the employers side - just for once!!

The total lack of negotiation (as voted for by bassa members on that very democratic show of hands) means that BA management in their capacity as senior management in a PLC have a legal obligation to do their utmost to ensure that BA continues operations.

BA cabin crew, through their looney union branch, are holding ballot number four to withdraw their labour. There's another sign that this union cannot be trusted not to interfere in the running of the company. BA senior management are reacting to the position that the union put them in and would be deemed to be negligent if the did not do so.

There are always 2 sides to every argument and it is incredibly frustrating to the rest of us that so many cabin crew are unwilling to look at both sides of the argument.

BA have been incredibly patient throughout this whole saga. As stated above, Untie have by their own very public admission linked this ballot to those that have gone before.

No matter how much I detest some of the really awful antics from some quite nasty people I would prefer that BA do not make martyrs out of the first cabin crew who do not turn up - especially as they will most probably be cannon fodder for the 'brave leaders'....... However, with each passing day BA must be getting closer and closer to taking some VERY heavy action.

The continuous negative conduct of bassa should ensure that there can be no sympathy when the sleeping tiger finally wakens up.

[From Tunbridge Wells]

Sporran

I fear you may be wasting your time trying to persuade anyone who is still a Bassa supporter to try and start thinking independently - the mass brainwashing seems to have obliterated the part of the brain that is capable of reasoned thought processes for good.
It's a complete tragedy (and I'm being sincere - good crew totally hoodwinked makes me so sad)