British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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I don't think that Willie and the board underestimated for one single minute, how puerile, deluded, anachronistic, self-serving and malicious the BASSA leadership would be throughout this sorry episode...............
Hector Vector,
You complain about bitchiness on this thread. To be fair, it appears that your position is to do just that. You have stated that "My wife who is cabin crew with BA ....", so is it reasonable for us all to assume that she is a BASSA supporter, and you side with the view of that challenged group?
You are a new poster, who claims to be a pilot, having done time in the RAF, now holding a CPL and flying the Embraer 190. That doesn't sit very well with this statement, though:
Any chance you can clarify that for us, just so we get a better idea of where you're actually coming from?
You complain about bitchiness on this thread. To be fair, it appears that your position is to do just that. You have stated that "My wife who is cabin crew with BA ....", so is it reasonable for us all to assume that she is a BASSA supporter, and you side with the view of that challenged group?
You are a new poster, who claims to be a pilot, having done time in the RAF, now holding a CPL and flying the Embraer 190. That doesn't sit very well with this statement, though:
Actually TC I own my own aeroplane, so I do not need Staff Travel. It has two engines left and right, not one or two.
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If WW is running a Union busting strategy it has to be said that it's not very good. He's been at it 18months+ now. It started at the beginning of the recession and now even that's over. Glaciers have moved faster!
Maybe it's just another case of rhetoric not matching reality?
The problem with people like Hector, Duggie, Juan etc is that none of them ever manage to produce a convincing argument that the rest of us can if not accept at least appreciate. When you drag up issues such as reluctance to close window blinds all you succeed in doing is losing more and more support amongst the rest of your colleagues who negotiated successfully.
The problem is that amongst all the BASSA diehards who wouldn't lift a finger unnecessarily for a pax or colleague there are 1,000s of hard working, dedicated, friendly, proactive, smart, professional BA Cabin Crew who are an absolute delight to work with. BASSA's default behaviour of intransigence, ignorance and arrogance has only succeeded in weakening the good guys and gals terms and conditions.
Maybe it's just another case of rhetoric not matching reality?
The problem with people like Hector, Duggie, Juan etc is that none of them ever manage to produce a convincing argument that the rest of us can if not accept at least appreciate. When you drag up issues such as reluctance to close window blinds all you succeed in doing is losing more and more support amongst the rest of your colleagues who negotiated successfully.
The problem is that amongst all the BASSA diehards who wouldn't lift a finger unnecessarily for a pax or colleague there are 1,000s of hard working, dedicated, friendly, proactive, smart, professional BA Cabin Crew who are an absolute delight to work with. BASSA's default behaviour of intransigence, ignorance and arrogance has only succeeded in weakening the good guys and gals terms and conditions.
Last edited by demomonkey; 4th Aug 2010 at 13:43.
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Hi deeceethree
I Believe...oops i mean Duncan Fashion etc seem to be one of the Bassa Duty Trolls using this forum as a bassa pr medium.
It seems impossible to engage them in debate.
DF may have a DHC 7 or a IL76 will he answer the question or any question...no
Regards SD
I Believe...oops i mean Duncan Fashion etc seem to be one of the Bassa Duty Trolls using this forum as a bassa pr medium.
It seems impossible to engage them in debate.
DF may have a DHC 7 or a IL76 will he answer the question or any question...no
Regards SD
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The BASSA game plan has now resulted in numerous dismissals, half the membership
with no staff travel (and resentful of the other half who still have it), all the changes put forward by the management are now in place and friendships built up over years distroyed in six months.
what more could they balls up ?
with no staff travel (and resentful of the other half who still have it), all the changes put forward by the management are now in place and friendships built up over years distroyed in six months.
what more could they balls up ?
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I suspect BASSAs [i]piece de resistance[i/] will be getting so many former members onto new contracts which stipulate Unite as the negotiating body that BASSA can be derecognised by BA. BASSA will be consigned to the history books forever, with Duncan and his cohort of dismissed reps left gnashing their teeth and wondering who to blame next.
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Willie Walsh colleague forum on strikers
At today's colleague forum, Willie Walsh gave some information about this week's talks with Unite at ACAS.
He said that he and Tony McCarthy [director of people] had met Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson for about an hour and a half. He had shared some information with them.
13,420 - the number of cabin crew employed
11,691 - the number of cabin crew balloted by Unite
7,482 - the number of cabin crew who voted to strike
4,923 - the number of cabin crew who went on strike (March through June)
667 - the number of cabin crew who went on strike but also worked
He said that he is confident about these figures and is willing for ACAS to verify them.
So, it does seem as if BASSA cannot tell the difference between the number of claims for strike pay (about 7,000) and the number of strikers.
I have to say that I am surprised that such a large proportion of cabin crew went on strike. This highlights the divide between BA and cabin crew. It will take years get some sort of decent relationship between the two parties, not to mention the relationship between strikers and non-strikers.
He said that he and Tony McCarthy [director of people] had met Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson for about an hour and a half. He had shared some information with them.
13,420 - the number of cabin crew employed
11,691 - the number of cabin crew balloted by Unite
7,482 - the number of cabin crew who voted to strike
4,923 - the number of cabin crew who went on strike (March through June)
667 - the number of cabin crew who went on strike but also worked
He said that he is confident about these figures and is willing for ACAS to verify them.
So, it does seem as if BASSA cannot tell the difference between the number of claims for strike pay (about 7,000) and the number of strikers.
I have to say that I am surprised that such a large proportion of cabin crew went on strike. This highlights the divide between BA and cabin crew. It will take years get some sort of decent relationship between the two parties, not to mention the relationship between strikers and non-strikers.
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Willie Walsh had said the strikers were "less than 5,000", which we now know to be 4,923. The figure that we never had was 667 for those strikers who also worked. They must be kicking themselves for making the wrong decision which cost them pay, allowances and ST.
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I said a week ago
I think the numbers are higher than BA expected, least this is what I have been told from several people, I'm glad BA have come out with the numbers at last. Of course BASSA will attempt to rubbish them, but as BA have said before, really they cannot be seen to be lying to investors.
Now since I got back to work, the numbers I have been hearing is that 4600-5000 crew have been on strike, this from numerous sources within management who have no reason to lie to me
one even admitted that the number was more than BA planned for.
one even admitted that the number was more than BA planned for.
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I got the impression from what Willie said this afternoon that (whilst BASSA might have a different view of things) Tony Woodley and Derek Simpson were prepared to accept BA's figures or at least didn't see any point in challenging them.
If it is a choice between a figure that is produced by querying a payroll computer system for the number of people who've had wages docked for being on strike and one that is produced by a check of the number of pieces of paper (some of which may be duplicates and some of which may have been invalid) in an office, I know in which I'd place more trust.
In some ways, it matters far less to BA than it does to BASSA how many people actually supported the strike.
What matters to BA is that it is able to operate as much as possible of a normal timetable during the strike.
I imagine Willie would much rather have a strike in which 66% of cabin crew participate during which we operate 66% of flights than a strike in which 33% of cabin crew participate during which we operate 33% of flights.
If it is a choice between a figure that is produced by querying a payroll computer system for the number of people who've had wages docked for being on strike and one that is produced by a check of the number of pieces of paper (some of which may be duplicates and some of which may have been invalid) in an office, I know in which I'd place more trust.
In some ways, it matters far less to BA than it does to BASSA how many people actually supported the strike.
What matters to BA is that it is able to operate as much as possible of a normal timetable during the strike.
I imagine Willie would much rather have a strike in which 66% of cabin crew participate during which we operate 66% of flights than a strike in which 33% of cabin crew participate during which we operate 33% of flights.
Last edited by DeThirdDefect; 4th Aug 2010 at 20:34.
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Sobering thought
This dispute has so far cost Unite over £3.5M in strike pay plus the court costs. The fighting fund they put in place was only£700K. Assuming that the union could get all of those folk out on strike again, the couldn't last for more than 3 days on £700K. A 12 day stoppage would cost Unite another £2.8M assuming they plan to pay strike pay of £45 per day.
The big snag now is that 4250 crew now have lost well over a month's pay plus staff travel. Can they afford to take a further two to three weeks loss of pay ? Moreover, in September there will be 1250 New Fleet crew ready to take up the slack.These folk combined with the VCC will be able to plug the gap quite effectively should all the crew who went on strike choose to do so again. I can understand now why Willie Walsh is confident about running a 100% longhaul operation.
The big question now is whether BASSA will give up gracefully or try to tough it out a bit longer. For the crew's sake I really hope they opt for the former. The latter course of action will only cause more harm. Either BASSA will find their members have no desire to continue, or if they do strike they will be so ineffectual that some may do something silly out of sheer frustration.
The big snag now is that 4250 crew now have lost well over a month's pay plus staff travel. Can they afford to take a further two to three weeks loss of pay ? Moreover, in September there will be 1250 New Fleet crew ready to take up the slack.These folk combined with the VCC will be able to plug the gap quite effectively should all the crew who went on strike choose to do so again. I can understand now why Willie Walsh is confident about running a 100% longhaul operation.
The big question now is whether BASSA will give up gracefully or try to tough it out a bit longer. For the crew's sake I really hope they opt for the former. The latter course of action will only cause more harm. Either BASSA will find their members have no desire to continue, or if they do strike they will be so ineffectual that some may do something silly out of sheer frustration.
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Would it be safe now to assume then that whatever address it is that BASSA operates (for want of a better word) from, either doesn't have windows or, if it does have windows that they don't have blinds?
Or maybe, just maybe, it does have windows, and blinds, and that the staff there simply open/close them as desired. God forbid that BASSA has put its staff in such mortal danger.
Oh, I've got it now ..... obviously the ambient brightness in the blind-up windows of the BASSA office has made it almost impossible to read the resignation letters. Although, looking for a positive, they could maybe try holding the membership lists upto the light. Or would that be just far too transparent?
CC89 on the other hand, must operate in such murky conditions that they've not been able to find the keyboard, and so update their website since 25 June.
Or maybe, just maybe, it does have windows, and blinds, and that the staff there simply open/close them as desired. God forbid that BASSA has put its staff in such mortal danger.
Oh, I've got it now ..... obviously the ambient brightness in the blind-up windows of the BASSA office has made it almost impossible to read the resignation letters. Although, looking for a positive, they could maybe try holding the membership lists upto the light. Or would that be just far too transparent?
CC89 on the other hand, must operate in such murky conditions that they've not been able to find the keyboard, and so update their website since 25 June.
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they think its all over!
From Stormin Normin...
A question? Is there a reliable source that can verify union membership now compared to 6 months ago? I am meeting alot of crew on flights who have left Amicas and Bassa.
The BASSA game plan has now resulted in numerous dismissals, half the membership
with no staff travel (and resentful of the other half who still have it), all the changes put forward by the management are now in place and friendships built up over years distroyed in six months.
what more could they balls up ?
with no staff travel (and resentful of the other half who still have it), all the changes put forward by the management are now in place and friendships built up over years distroyed in six months.
what more could they balls up ?
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The problem is that amongst all the BASSA diehards who wouldn't lift a finger unnecessarily for a pax or colleague there are 1,000s of hard working, dedicated, friendly, proactive, smart, professional BA Cabin Crew who are an absolute delight to work with. BASSA's default behaviour of intransigence, ignorance and arrogance has only succeeded in weakening the good guys and gals terms and conditions.
I totally agree - bring on Performance Mangement ... that will sort this problem out and recognise the many good crew BA has
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How about having some managers in IFCE that don't suffer from Stockholm Syndrome and protect their crew at all costs? How many times do we hear of Captains reporting crew for poor performance - with the Captain then ending up having a grievance filed against them. Flt Ops withdraw....IFCE withdraw....the status quo continues.
Last edited by Hot Wings; 5th Aug 2010 at 10:48.
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Mixed Fleet
Well, myself and may other temps who all came back to help BA during the strike , have now had an official email saying we are not suitable for MF!!
So , we are good enough to help you, extremley hard workers, put up with lots of xxxx over the last few months, AND had to apply for MF when other temps who DIDNT want to help during strike didn't have to apply and now got permanent positions on MF. How can this seriously be right??????????????????????
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! !
So , we are good enough to help you, extremley hard workers, put up with lots of xxxx over the last few months, AND had to apply for MF when other temps who DIDNT want to help during strike didn't have to apply and now got permanent positions on MF. How can this seriously be right??????????????????????
aaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!! !