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British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)

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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:05
  #1781 (permalink)  
 
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I would be inclined to believe BA's figures, as they will be based on verifiable checkin data, reduced by those who are actually sick. The offer to ACAS to verify shows a high level of confidence.
BASSA don't even know how many members they have, crew have been too scared to communicate with BASSA that they are resigning and are simply stopping their payroll deductions. This is why many received ballot papers when they shouldn't have.
They may have received 7000 claims for strike pay, but there will be many multiple claims for different periods.
Can anyone produce verifiable rather than anecdotal evidence that BA have lied during this dispute?
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:07
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Originally Posted by Hector Vector
There is no sympathy for the Temps from Mainline crew. They have tried to mob us out of our jobs and now they are rewarded by a ruthless management. They were good enough to get Willie through a strike, but not good enough to earn only £11,000 a year plus £2.40. I think BA have done crew like PTC a favour. Go find yourselves a better job outside of the aviation industry. There is no future in BA anymore, no promotion, no pension, no job security, BA has become a pariah employer.

Perhaps the Temps can have a bit of empathy for what it is like to be on the receiving end of this current LT in BA.
Our jobs? Didn't you refer to your wife as the BA cabin crew member in your initial postings? Either I'm misreading your autobiography such as it exists on here or your cover story is slipping.

Pariah employer? Hmm, well time will tell I guess when MF recruitment gets into full swing. If your assertion is correct then we won't be able to get the staff. Of course, if we do, then you may just have to reassess your position on that one.

MrB
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:11
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There is no future in BA anymore, no promotion, no pension, no job security.
And yet there have not been mass resignations, perhaps the reality is that this is quite a good job and that to get one with similar remuneration and conditions is beyond what is actually achievable in this economic crisis.
Whatever the reality is, it does seem to be a long way from BASSAland.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:12
  #1784 (permalink)  
 
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Malcolm. How do you prove BA is lying?

Does anyone believe the veracity of Walsh anymore? This is the man only 12 months ago said BA had "only six months to survive"? Was that true?

Was it also true when Walsh said that "BA was in a fight for its survival"?

In hindsight, Walsh has tried to bully and browbeat employees into taking pay cuts like the pilots, though the company would now be in profit if it wasn't for the ongoing cabin crew dispute.

It is time for a change of CEO. History will show Walsh to be a failure as CEO; a destructive and divisive leader who ruined a great company.

Sorry Juan, I should have labelled that no future comment with Mixed Fleet. No future at all on that contract.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:25
  #1785 (permalink)  
 
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Come on Hector, answer the man! You originally stated that your wife was cabin crew and now you state it's your job at risk.

If you're going to come on here as a BASSA stooge, at least try to put a bit of effort into it!

If your entire persona is a fake why on earth should anyone listen to a word you say?
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:26
  #1786 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone believe the veracity of Walsh anymore? This is the man only 12 months ago said BA had "only six months to survive"? Was that true?
Who knows? I and many, many of my colleagues, in fact, all EXCEPT a 'certain group' of employees, took drastic change with regards to working practises, even to the point of working for 'free'!

Then of course, much of it was 'undone, by a 'group of employees' that felt that they should be exempt from change. So, again, who knows how much 'we' contributed financially. Probably quite significantly.

And you guys wonder why there are so many VCC's.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:28
  #1787 (permalink)  
 
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Of course most of the VCC wouldn't pass the MF interview. And they may not even have a job to go back to!! You couldn't make it up.
This has been done to death. VCC are not rendering their existing roles redundant by becoming VCC. It has always been made clear that they are just volunteer crews. Projects have been put on hold/delayed and people are working overtime to cover for VCC.

The only workgroup to have demonstrated that the airline can keep going without them are cabin crew.

Look how much he has cost BA and as far as Walsh is concerned, the fight goes on!!
Except it doesn't.

The merest hint of any unofficial industrial action will be kicked into touch by Unite's lawyers. Witness the highly embarrasing public rebuke for BASSA by the Joint General Secretaries of Unite over closing window blinds (the clear, unequivocal advice, free of any rhetoric and sabre-rattling has Unite's legal advice written all over it):

http://uniteba.com/ESW/Files/100805.BA.Repudiation.pdf

As for industrial action, there is absolutely no hope of BASSA managing to conduct a legal ballot for any further action.

The chances of BASSA managing to identify an entirely new set of issues for a further ballot, get a decent mandate for industrial action, not mess up the administration of the ballot, and not shoot themselves in the foot by linking the strike ballot to the previous dispute in any official communications, internet posts etc are zero.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 16:57
  #1788 (permalink)  
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If you havent the time to read this then the 1 line translation is "We havent got a clue what to do now"

EASY TO READ VERSION OF WHERE WE ARE
Aug 7th, 2010 by admin

Alternate “Easy to read” version of where we are.

As Oscar Wilde once wisely said, “the one thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about,” so, to that end, our “Walsh’s Waterloo” article served its purpose and certainly got people talking.

Some members loved the ironic metaphor, others lapsed into Daily Mail-esque moral outrage by trying to read hidden messages into ABBA lyrics. We simply tried to spell out, as best we could, where as crew we are and the tactics we now need to adopt to survive - evidently with some of the feedback we got, some of you didn’t quite get it!

So here are the points again, this time a little more bluntly.

Unite leadership met with Willie Walsh on Monday, the meeting lasted an hour or so; ACAS had to persuade him to attend, he is not interested in reaching a fair deal, he believes UNITE should simply accept the deal that you just voted to reject, or threatened the next one will be worse.

No more meetings have been requested or scheduled.

British Airways CEO is simply not interested in a different deal, he prefers a strike and he wants it right now - as soon as possible. Why? He has a glut of strike breaking volunteers to use up from all around this airline, they are sitting in hotels doing nothing, waiting, and if we don’t strike, they will keep waiting. If we strike and he operates a 100% of services, he remains the Daily Mail’s Union-busting poster boy and he sails off to Iberia the corporate hero.

We, as crew and as a union would be destroyed with no way back. We are not willing to put you into an obvious trap of his making. Currently, he also does not have a solution and he won’t get one unless it’s fair; but he can’t go to Iberia as the hero without one.

There lies his dilemma, the dispute needs to be resolved, he will do this either by crushing all opposition to his plans and then simply impose, or he will have a bout of common sense and reach an agreement that people will accept. If he does not, he will get his strike, but not necessarily at a time that is so convenient for him. Make sense?

So what do we do as crew? We wait and continue to demand a fair solution, not forever but until the time is right. It will require resolve and determination to do so but if we stick together and remain strong, we will prevail and achieve the security we need.

There are no forums where managers openly criticise British Airways leadership, or indeed Willie Walsh, or Bill Francis et al; ask yourselves why? We have an open forum where all opinion is welcome but also be aware, it’s double edged. Your managers read it every single day, they analyse and thrive on every negative comment; any disillusionment simply plays into their hands.

We need to be strong, brave and keep our determination; with belief, the parallels were that you can’t suppress your own people forever and that even an outnumbered army will triumph against a superior force if it refuses to surrender.

If people get squeamish over using military analogies, then people please wake up! Mr Walsh has been waging a ruthless “Anti Union War” for the past two years, its hard not to draw comparisons, Nicky Marcus Worldwide rep was suspended last night over an incident that arose from a disciplinary she is doing for a member - we are literally in a “battle” for our working lives.

Mr Walsh wants one glorious big battle that he wins and to the victor goes the spoils of war, we instead need to keep fighting but differently over a longer period, hence the Vietnam analogy.

New mixed fleet is already being recruited. It starts soon, very soon. People are applying from outside and from all over BA, even a number of current crew. They must all end their current contract and be reemployed on a new, very different contract.

This Fleet is where British Airways believes the future is. Not with you. They are calling them the “cr�me de la cr�me of crew”; that’s why you cannot transfer, you must “apply” to ensure you buy into the new culture; they will be kept completely separate from current crew so that they do not learn your culture. They will even be trained by external trainers and will not mix with you. Believe it or not, they will also - no doubt as a provocative stance - wear the uniform hat, to identify them as “different” - better if you like, than you.

The roles, working practices and aggressive performance management you will have to work to on this fleet will bear no resemblance to anything you have known.

Extra mock-ups are being built at Cranebank; they want to be able to process up to 2000 new crew per year. Do the maths and work out how long you could have left in a job that you recognise.

Mr Walsh has all but destroyed the union. Whether it’s window blinds, new crewing levels or less rest, who in the future is going to question it? Who are people going to complain to when things go wrong? The union? If things don’t change then it’s already too late. The office has long gone, reps are being routinely sacked, the union only exists within ourselves now, its structure has been dismantled.

When we needed peoples’ help, too many turned their backs and walked away - if they hadn’t, we wouldn’t be here now.

Crew colleagues broke the strike because they thought that life is just going to carry on as before; it’s not. One day in the not too distant future, they will wake up and realise that they have been had. They may well have “backed BA” but as a result, our management will have backed us ALL into a corner - by then, it will be way too late.

Now please, spare 5 minutes and re-read the article that we sent you, it’s all there, as is what we need to do to prevent this happening; you just need to open your mind a little to see it, ABBA lyrics were not meant to be taken literally they were a parody of Walsh’s desire for his own personal “Waterloo”. Criticism from some simply means that our strategies have to be continually made public; BA must laugh themselves to sleep, that we constantly and so publicly do this. Perhaps Mr Walsh will reciprocate and publish his plans and strategy in the cabin crew news.

Mama mia..

Please keep strong, have faith in us and stay as one!

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Old 7th Aug 2010, 17:03
  #1789 (permalink)  
 
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This is the man only 12 months ago said BA had "only six months to survive"? Was that true?
I don't think any of us will know what would have happened if the crew reductions and cost savings hadn't kicked in. Would the city have continued to support BA with cash? The judgement of my union was that there was a need for concessions after they looked at the books, I have to trust them on that.
We still aren't out of the woods yet, we're facing massive competition from lower cost longhaul operators with far more up to date equipment, and highly aggressive shorthaul competitors. We are also severely restrained by LHR. Take a look at what is happening in Istanbul, a brand new airport that can launch modern aircraft non stop anywhere on the planet. Not to mention Dubai, Qatar and Abu Dhabi.
Although the loads are good at the moment all we need is a second dip in the recession and we're back in trouble.
We have to become more efficient or we really won't survive.
The thing that saddens us is that BASSA didn't seem to accept any of that and thought that things would just go on like the old days for ever. The last offer is good, accept it and let's get on with the real battle. Perhaps in 6 months time the mood of the rest of the company will be more inclined towards letting the strikers have ST back for more than just commuting.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 17:11
  #1790 (permalink)  
 
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When we needed peoples’ help, too many turned their backs and walked away - if they hadn’t, we wouldn’t be here now.
But we were told 7,000 cabin crew supported the strike.

BASSA is pleading for help - but without saying what it is they need.

Time for BASSA to admit they've lost. They made a catastrophic misjudgement. They picked the wrong battle at the wrong time. They massively underestimated the strength of their opponent (not Willie Walsh, but the whole company).

They have done nothing but make matters demonstrably worse for their members. They have lost earnings and staff travel, relationships with colleagues have been damaged and will take years to repair (if at all). Better offers from BA are now a distant memory.

Accept the offer and start to do your bit to rebuild relations with the company and other workgroups.

Then you might have a fighting chance of getting staff travel back.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 17:16
  #1791 (permalink)  
 
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The latest from BASSA all but admits they have lost

When we needed peoples’ help, too many turned their backs and walked away
Mr Walsh has all but destroyed the union
the union only exists within ourselves now
Contrast this "official" BASSA message with some of the still deluded masses

Look how much he has cost BA and as far as Walsh is concerned, the fight goes on!! Does he not know when he is beaten?
BASSA all but admit it is over as they have been unable to rally sufficient support for their ill fated action, it is only the diehard BASSAmentalists that have not understood this message.

I'm guessing that UNITE have told the leaders of BASSA that it is over and they are now starting the spin in an attempt to walk away from this with some small remnant of their dignity still intact.

In a year from now no-one will remember DH and LM except as those idiots who let BASSA self-destruct.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 17:21
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To be fair to BASSA, bar the odd reference or two to other events/songs and a little hyperbolic prose, that's one of their better communications. I would have had a great deal more respect for their conduct of the dispute had they presented themselves like that more often and steered away with from the frenzy-inducing hysteria so prevalent in their official releases.

MrB
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 17:42
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He has a glut of strike breaking volunteers to use up from all around this airline, they are sitting in hotels doing nothing, waiting, and if we don’t strike, they will keep waiting.
Actually, that's news to the VCC who have been back at work for two months.

If we strike and he operates a 100% of services
Duncan, how is this possible when you have 7,000 strikers?
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 20:02
  #1794 (permalink)  
 
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LD12986:
The merest hint of any unofficial industrial action will be kicked into touch by Unite's lawyers. Witness the highly embarrasing public rebuke for BASSA by the Joint General Secretaries of Unite over closing window blinds (the clear, unequivocal advice, free of any rhetoric and sabre-rattling has Unite's legal advice written all over it):
As for industrial action, there is absolutely no hope of BASSA managing to conduct a legal ballot for any further action.

The chances of BASSA managing to identify an entirely new set of issues for a further ballot, get a decent mandate for industrial action, not mess up the administration of the ballot, and not shoot themselves in the foot by linking the strike ballot to the previous dispute in any official communications, internet posts etc are zero.
IMO, this where we are. I am resigning my BASSA membership immediately. It may give me the chance of accepting the current offer should it be made available again formally. However, it does not change the fact that the offer is not, IMO, magnanimous or generous as has been previously described. It is quite simply as good as it is going to get.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 20:22
  #1795 (permalink)  
 
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Hector Vector.
BA wishes to create a new ethos amongst future crew; they want to ensure that - as far as possible – they have the right people for the job.(As they have always tried to do with considerable success - there are but a few who let us down, even in these adverse times). The fact that YOU think the salary in not commensurate, is irrelevant; there will be PLENTY of talented, enthusiastic, customer service- orientated individuals out there who will be more than willing to take up the job, if offered. In the job market I knew previously, people who had done a great job were not automatically ‘rewarded’ by being kept on in that job - nor were they necessarily successful after applying for the same job on a permanent basis. It was all dependent upon the requirements of the authority at that time. Hard cheese, I know, but that’s life. People were naturally disappointed, but not bitter. IT WAS NOTHING PERSONAL. Additionally, how many more times does it need to be reiterated, this is not a personal vendetta by Mr Walsh to bust the Union, (although if that WERE to be the case, I think he could be forgiven in this instance, given the utter mess the union has brought about!). It is simply a process to attempt to bring the IFCE cost base down in order for us to compete into the future, whilst, in my view, trying to offer a modicum of security, at least for the next couple of years (which is more than most businesses would do) for those of us who have been accustomed to relatively comfortable conditions and remuneration. Please don’t retort with “the union have provided these” – they were provided by our employer BA – possibly protected by the union IN MORE PROSPEROUS TIMES. The world has since changed; BA is having to adapt now, and so must the Union - if they are serious about maintaining a role in the future at this airline.

Last edited by Missyminx; 7th Aug 2010 at 21:05.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 21:02
  #1796 (permalink)  
 
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Boondocker

I think your appraisal is spot on. Sadly, that should have been written by a responsible union 18 months ago, then we wouldn't be in this mess.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 21:11
  #1797 (permalink)  
 
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Hectors House

Of course most of the VCC wouldn't pass the MF interview. And they may not even have a job to go back to!! You couldn't make it up.
Hector, I am not sure how many VCC would want to apply for MF, but however on what grounds do you think they would not pass the MF interview, most I have meet are articulate, intellegent, level headed and hard working, probably just what BA are looking for and stand as much, if not more chance of acheiving MF status should they so wish.

Im backing ba, and willing to close window blinds. G.
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 21:28
  #1798 (permalink)  
 
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Cost Saving

Does anyone believe the veracity of Walsh anymore? This is the man only 12 months ago said BA had "only six months to survive"? Was that true?

Was it also true when Walsh said that "BA was in a fight for its survival"?
Hector (Duncun) Are you really so blinkered that you can not see what has happened over the last two years, yes it was all true, the rest of the airline has recognised this and has saved nearly a billion pounds on costs, through personal, and team sacrifices and changing working practices, as well as major cuts in managements numbers, pay freezes and structural change. Don`t you think it is the turn of cabin crew to join the rest of us and do their bit !!!!!!

G
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Old 7th Aug 2010, 21:35
  #1799 (permalink)  
 
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Hector

It is time for a change of CEO. History will show Walsh to be a failure as CEO; a destructive and divisive leader who ruined a great company
I am sorry Hector, but what Willy has done has taken a great company that was in a nose dive to distruction and turned it round though strong leadership and negotiation with all unions, except BASSA, and we, the rest of BA applaud the fact that at last someone has the balls to stand up to you and your ilk and refuses to let a few selfish prima dona`s ruining what can, and will be a great future for those of us that remain dedicated to BA, and remain employed.

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Old 7th Aug 2010, 21:43
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MissyMinx. You sound like a manager on an "In Touch" day.

Three years ago BA reported huge profits with crew on existing contracts and the workforce even more bloated in numbers than it is today. The fact whether BA is profitable or not, does not rest alone on the T&C's of its cabin crew.

Walsh and his team have made huge blunders, yet no one takes responsibility. This is best shown by the way Walsh sacked Kirkwood and Noyes for the T5 fiasco. BA would be making substantial profits now IF IT WASN'T FOR WALSH. He has dragged the airline through the mud and completely misplayed his hand dealing with the strike.

For instance he was training up VCC's, when he could have broken the first strike simply by not letting the 800 cabin crew take severance until after the dispute was resolved. He could have threatened those crew then who were leaving anyway, that if they took part in the action, they would lose their staff travel and any chance of severance. This was such a fundemental strategic blunder, that he should resign over this issue alone. He personally has cost the airline over £1bn in strike costs and lost forward bookings, over his failed strategy to break BASSA.

To go the injunction route was also a disaster. If the blueprint was to provoke an strike then bust it, his best chance was at Christmas, and it would have all been over months ago. But he blew that too.

The fact that he wants to bust unions in BA, is best typified by the way crew are being recruited onto Mixed Fleet. Not even Temps will make it, as they have been exposed to the good times of allowances, overtime, premium payments, destination payments, DOA's. Heaven forbid a few of them might get fed up with the poverty pay on MF and may even join a proper union like BASSA. Yes, that its the new "ethos" Missy Minx as you properly state. Mixed Fleet will be a non-unionised workforce.

So consider the hypocrisy of all the VCC's, especially the pilots, many of whom belong to a union, who are helping to bring this about. Shame on you.
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