British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Hector,
Of course it is. Why else would they do it? Or, perhaps, you'd care to look into it rather than just throwing another BASSA smoke grenade on here for your first posting. It's actually a new policy which is designed to fundamentally change APU usage so if we close all the blinds, the APU can be left switched off longer and we can utilise less fuel (which is predicted by nigh on all analysts to continue getting increasingly more expensive). Of course, if you want to believe it's all about you then go ahead. The only ones who'll suffer if you don't do it will be your colleagues following you on to the aircraft which will be significantly hotter than it was had you followed the simple request.
But hey, never, ever, let the truth get in the way of a moment of self-righteous BASSA indignation. It's all about me. Repeat.
MrB
Of course it is. Why else would they do it? Or, perhaps, you'd care to look into it rather than just throwing another BASSA smoke grenade on here for your first posting. It's actually a new policy which is designed to fundamentally change APU usage so if we close all the blinds, the APU can be left switched off longer and we can utilise less fuel (which is predicted by nigh on all analysts to continue getting increasingly more expensive). Of course, if you want to believe it's all about you then go ahead. The only ones who'll suffer if you don't do it will be your colleagues following you on to the aircraft which will be significantly hotter than it was had you followed the simple request.
But hey, never, ever, let the truth get in the way of a moment of self-righteous BASSA indignation. It's all about me. Repeat.
MrB
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Perhaps because 40 years ago BA didn't have 299+ IFE screens heating the cabin on a long turnaround? Far from this being BA imposing it's will on the cabin crew for the sake of it, this is BA implementing a practical and effective system that saves fuel and money and increases passenger and crew comfort at zero cost. BASSA are impeding this system purely for the sake of being awkward, although comments like Hectors mirror BASSAs deep seated wish that everything should stay the same as it was four decades ago.
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I believe Mr Claypole, that the crews are not being told to switch off the IFE at out stations or back at base.
Seems logical to me due to all the heat those screens put out.
From your comment TC, it appears that anyone that does not agree with the underlying sentiment on this forum, is automatically identified as a BASSA sympathiser. Are people not allowed to have an alternative point of view here?
Seems logical to me due to all the heat those screens put out.
From your comment TC, it appears that anyone that does not agree with the underlying sentiment on this forum, is automatically identified as a BASSA sympathiser. Are people not allowed to have an alternative point of view here?
Hector Vector
The reason it wasn't done 40 years ago is that back then fuel was much cheaper than it is today so running the APU to keep the cabin cool was not prohibitively expensive. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever with BA trying to impose its will. It seems much more like BASSA trying to impose its will just for the sake of it. Muppets.
The reason it wasn't done 40 years ago is that back then fuel was much cheaper than it is today so running the APU to keep the cabin cool was not prohibitively expensive. It has absolutely nothing whatsoever with BA trying to impose its will. It seems much more like BASSA trying to impose its will just for the sake of it. Muppets.
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You are misinformed Hector. IFE should be switched off (completely, not just seat power to off), chillers should be switched off, blinds should be closed on the sunny side of the aircraft. Hardly a great chore for the BASSAites now is it? People are very welcome to have an alternative view here, but if the view is more soundbite than evidence supported assertion I expect they'll have a choppy ride. Incidentally flight crew have their own procedures to follow but don't think that it's all about them.
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Hector
Why is it perfectly reasonable and safe for us to close the blinds in flight as soon as the meal service is finished, yet deemed to be far too dangerous on the ground after landing unless a health and safety assessment is carried out by Bassa?
Or is this a yet another Bassa hot towel imposition hissy fit?
Why is it perfectly reasonable and safe for us to close the blinds in flight as soon as the meal service is finished, yet deemed to be far too dangerous on the ground after landing unless a health and safety assessment is carried out by Bassa?
Or is this a yet another Bassa hot towel imposition hissy fit?
Hector
I was P2 747 classic 90-96.
Blinds were pulled down then on the extended t/r in CCU and DAC.
OK the APU was still running but the APU/packs needed all the help they could get.
Just the same on 737 300/400 ex LGW. APU/packs that needed help.
Its all part of a " total crew" operating an aircraft.
Do you not think of cabin crew as part of the total crew?
As has been said it is being done now as a fuel saver. Flight Deck, both BA and other airlines have been changing their operating techniques for years to save fuel. Is closing the blinds so much to ask?
1066
I was P2 747 classic 90-96.
Blinds were pulled down then on the extended t/r in CCU and DAC.
OK the APU was still running but the APU/packs needed all the help they could get.
Just the same on 737 300/400 ex LGW. APU/packs that needed help.
Its all part of a " total crew" operating an aircraft.
Do you not think of cabin crew as part of the total crew?
As has been said it is being done now as a fuel saver. Flight Deck, both BA and other airlines have been changing their operating techniques for years to save fuel. Is closing the blinds so much to ask?
1066
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Duggie/Hector,
While I suspect neither JPMs or the ANO may apply to you individually as employees any more, how can BASSA justify asking it's membership to knowingly break the law by refusing a lawful command from the commander which is directly related to the welfare of the passengers and crew for which he is responsible?
By carrying out BASSAs "instruction", any crew member will be breaking the law. It is very dangerous ground.
Why are BASSA members above the law, Duggie?
Originally Posted by JPM 1.3
The UK ANO states: Every person in an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom shall obey all lawful commands which the commander of that aircraft may give for the purpose of securing the safety of the aircraft and of persons or property carried therein ...... In addition, OPS 1.090 states: All persons carried in the aeroplane shall obey all lawful commands given by the commander for the purpose of securing the safety of the aeroplane and of persons or property carried therein.
By carrying out BASSAs "instruction", any crew member will be breaking the law. It is very dangerous ground.
Why are BASSA members above the law, Duggie?
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Hector Vector wrote: I believe fuel was very expensive in 1973
But ask yourself this, if Starbucks want their coffees made a certain way, is it unreasonable for them to expect their employees to follow the instructions? No. If Mr Ford wants the steering wheel to be fitted in the usual place in his cars would he get upset if his employees used their 'theatre and flare' and fitted it where they pleased. Yes.
Last edited by demomonkey; 3rd Aug 2010 at 11:41.
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It also happens in CPT where the aircraft sits on the ground all day. The blinds are not closed by the cabin crew but probably by a member of ground staff/engineer as a courtesy not just to our customers but also to the crew operating to LHR not to mention the cost saving to BA
I don't suppose for one minute that the individual/s concerned have had a working practice trial or a health and safety assessment or a six week training course.
I don't suppose for one minute that the individual/s concerned have had a working practice trial or a health and safety assessment or a six week training course.
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My wife who is cabin crew with BA informs me that there are now trials to reduce the crew complement on the 744 down to four in WT.
Looks like BA's ambition of doing away with the Psr grade is coming to fruition. All those senior Pursers who thought they could hide in the galleys in the twilight years of their careers marking up SPML's, are going to be very upset now being stuck out on a trolley. Many of whom did not support the strike for fear of losing their Staff Travel. You live and learn; they should have supported their union.
Still there seems to be plenty of Pursers volunteering to work down at the moment. You have to be careful what you wish for these days.
What goes around, comes around
Looks like BA's ambition of doing away with the Psr grade is coming to fruition. All those senior Pursers who thought they could hide in the galleys in the twilight years of their careers marking up SPML's, are going to be very upset now being stuck out on a trolley. Many of whom did not support the strike for fear of losing their Staff Travel. You live and learn; they should have supported their union.
Still there seems to be plenty of Pursers volunteering to work down at the moment. You have to be careful what you wish for these days.
What goes around, comes around
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I know I'll be moderated for adding little or nought to the flow of debate but enough already.
The world is full of empty rhetoric already. Can someone from a pro-BASSA point of view not come on here and actually debate with some facts rather than just scaremongering and pseudo-psychic predictions of future doom for all if BASSA aren't supported? Please. It's as if you're just a tag team who take it in turns to come on here and use phrases like "FACT", "thin end of the wedge", "latte drinkers", "what goes around comes around" etc etc et bloody c.
There's a few extremists on the opposing bench here too, I grant you, but I'd wager the majority of us posting on here are perfectly receptive to a well argued point of view. Please give us one so we can return to some meaningful debate on the matter.
Thanks in faint hope,
MrB
The world is full of empty rhetoric already. Can someone from a pro-BASSA point of view not come on here and actually debate with some facts rather than just scaremongering and pseudo-psychic predictions of future doom for all if BASSA aren't supported? Please. It's as if you're just a tag team who take it in turns to come on here and use phrases like "FACT", "thin end of the wedge", "latte drinkers", "what goes around comes around" etc etc et bloody c.
There's a few extremists on the opposing bench here too, I grant you, but I'd wager the majority of us posting on here are perfectly receptive to a well argued point of view. Please give us one so we can return to some meaningful debate on the matter.
Thanks in faint hope,
MrB
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Yes, and the 5th crewmember will work in J instead. Now I seem to remember the BASSAmentalists saying that LHR was different from LGW because they had big Club loads that were very demanding, so surely this is exactly what they want? Seems strange that some Pursers should want to hide in the galley for the rest of their career, but then why should BA pay them to do that? As for backing the union, I think working in the cabin (thats their job isn't it, cabin crew?) is a small price to pay to keep ones staff travel. Which presumably neither Hector nor his 'wife' now enjoy.
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Just for info-I work for one of your competitors-we've also just started closing blinds post flight due to reduced APU usage. Not a bleat from our CC-its common sense and makes a big difference to comfort levels for the next crew.
Simplez.
Simplez.
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The problem with the wide body jets is that the Aircon as supplied by the APU is very rarely 'man enough' to adequately cool the aircraft to acceptable temperatures.
As the ground air system has the same problem the action of closing the 'curtains' certainly seems a sensible one. The health and safety dictorate has already removed the ability to run engines on stand or open opposing doors at either end of the aircraft.
It would seem that BASSA are merely being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate and ignoring that the comfort achieved would benefit both their members as well as the customer.
As the ground air system has the same problem the action of closing the 'curtains' certainly seems a sensible one. The health and safety dictorate has already removed the ability to run engines on stand or open opposing doors at either end of the aircraft.
It would seem that BASSA are merely being obstinate for the sake of being obstinate and ignoring that the comfort achieved would benefit both their members as well as the customer.
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There is a lot of bitchiness on this forum.
Actually TC I own my own aeroplane, so I do not need Staff Travel. It has two engines left and right, not one or two.
So after all the joy of seeing the CSD out on a trolley, BA management have admitted their mistake to release that Grade back into the original managerial role.
Perhaps those that make these decisions should get a bit more input, like from the union, before messing about with crew positions and getting it wrong.
Regarding Wirbelstrums comments, with high ambient temperatures closing the blinds especially at night, does not make a lot of difference. The problem is that passengers on big jets are being cooked as the APU does not have sufficient time to get going, before boarding commences. The 777 is a lot better than the 747 in my experience, not surprisingly.
Actually TC I own my own aeroplane, so I do not need Staff Travel. It has two engines left and right, not one or two.
So after all the joy of seeing the CSD out on a trolley, BA management have admitted their mistake to release that Grade back into the original managerial role.
Perhaps those that make these decisions should get a bit more input, like from the union, before messing about with crew positions and getting it wrong.
Regarding Wirbelstrums comments, with high ambient temperatures closing the blinds especially at night, does not make a lot of difference. The problem is that passengers on big jets are being cooked as the APU does not have sufficient time to get going, before boarding commences. The 777 is a lot better than the 747 in my experience, not surprisingly.
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They have done no such thing. It's merely a mooted trial. No admission of error or fault has been made. Indeed, one might argue that they're listening to feedback from those directly involved in working under the new complements and are trying a more efficient use of the new crew matrices. But that wouldn't fit the rhetoric would it?
FYI,
Your night argument is slightly erroneous as, should the aircraft arrive at night then there won't be insolation on the airframe and through the windows to heat up an already cooled aircraft which has just arrived on stand - however getting into the habit of closing the blinds on all sectors merely simplifies the process (and as BASSA seem to have such issues with it, surely they'd welcome simplification?). This trial, as has been pointed out to you, is to save fuel. The aircraft isn't being left to cook in any respect, it's about using facilities such as PCA to maintain a lower temperature. As you'll know from your self-declared knowledge, the APU is good at maintaining a low temperature but struggles to bring it down from a hot one. Analogous to getting into a hot car and having the climate control fight 100% to start with.
MrB
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The problem is that passengers on big jets are being cooked as the APU does not have sufficient time to get going, before boarding commences.
If, as the Captain, I tell the CSD to close all of the blinds as part of my duty of care responsibilities I would expect it to be done irrespective of BASSA's wishes. There is no rhyme or reason to bring health and safety issues into the closure of a piece of plastic designed to be opened and closed. If this were not done then I would be querying why a legal order was not carried out.
Common sense must take precedence to the idiocy of BASSA.