British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Hiya Norm. Good, the debate has started up again. I was getting worried that things were tailing off a bit.
So, who are the crew cheesed off with then?
And, how many is many?
So, who are the crew cheesed off with then?
And, how many is many?
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No matter what BA does, somethings will never change. There are those within the community who will always refuse to read communication in any shape or form, from the company. Such is the strength of the BASSA propaganda and mentality that whatever BASSA says, goes regardless of anything else. Sadly and regrettably that is the problem within the crew community with BASSA controlling their lives.
It should be the other way round, the members controlling and influencing the Union, not the Union controlling the members.
Will they ever learn, having lost so much for nothing?
Just something to remember that if this offer is not accepted, it will get worse. As for non-Unionised members, not much you can do except to accept the reasonable offer. The deal is done on our behalves and it is a pretty good offer. I also think we're pretty fortunate to have got off so lightly. This is as good as it gets so why quibble?
It should be the other way round, the members controlling and influencing the Union, not the Union controlling the members.
Will they ever learn, having lost so much for nothing?
Just something to remember that if this offer is not accepted, it will get worse. As for non-Unionised members, not much you can do except to accept the reasonable offer. The deal is done on our behalves and it is a pretty good offer. I also think we're pretty fortunate to have got off so lightly. This is as good as it gets so why quibble?
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In some ways, you're right that this thread is dying, but the important aspect of this thread being here in the first place is to give us all a voice. Those of us (me included) who feel that talking about the REAL issues will be victimised, this is the one and only neutral forum there is. For that, many people are grateful and I think it's a great idea to keep this thread open.
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Interest is waning.....
I think this thread is a good barometer of the general mood amongst CC. It is whithering because interest in the so-called strike is dying quickly. Those who have lost ST have begun to realise that they will never get the support of their (non striking) colleagues to get it back, and the non-strikers/VCC are content in the knowledge that any future industrial action by BASSA will have zero effect on the operation.
BASSA have become irrelevant, and will continue to be so until they grow up and start to conduct themselves like a real union.
And hurrah to that!
BASSA have become irrelevant, and will continue to be so until they grow up and start to conduct themselves like a real union.
And hurrah to that!
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Martin Broughton is quoted as saying at today's AGM "The Board's patience with BASSA has now been exhausted (...) We will win the right to manage."
"I can assure you that the Board stands firmly behind Willie and the managemnt team."
"We will continue to support the strategy of adopting cost measures and working practices that will enable us to operate profitably on a consistent basis."
Think it can now be taken as given that the current offer is indeed final.
"I can assure you that the Board stands firmly behind Willie and the managemnt team."
"We will continue to support the strategy of adopting cost measures and working practices that will enable us to operate profitably on a consistent basis."
Think it can now be taken as given that the current offer is indeed final.
Last edited by LD12986; 13th Jul 2010 at 12:12.
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And not forgetting the patience from the rest of the staff. Lets hope this is over with, roll on profitability for all our sakes.
I'm certainly not expecting guarantees as ground staff, but hopeful of a little more job security, and, who knows, a pay rise? Wishful thinking maybe.
I'm certainly not expecting guarantees as ground staff, but hopeful of a little more job security, and, who knows, a pay rise? Wishful thinking maybe.
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AGM report from Bloomberg
British Airways Union to Ask Shareholders to Press Compromise From Walsh - Bloomberg
Walsh told investors that British Airways is in dispute with the BASSA branch of Unite, which represents cabin crew, rather than with the majority of workers, and that he’s hopeful the latest proposal will be seen as a way of ending the dispute.
“We are absolutely determined to make what changes are necessary to ensure that British Airways is competitive in the future,” he said. “There is no fudging of this issue. Our costs must be brought into line with those of our competitors.”
Cabin-crew costs at Dubai-based long-haul carrier Emirates are probably less than half those at British Airways, he said.
“We are absolutely determined to make what changes are necessary to ensure that British Airways is competitive in the future,” he said. “There is no fudging of this issue. Our costs must be brought into line with those of our competitors.”
Cabin-crew costs at Dubai-based long-haul carrier Emirates are probably less than half those at British Airways, he said.
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100%
so BA will fly 100% longhaul if there is another strike
If crew reject this offer and if BA does fly 100% longhaul (and WW has been very accurate with his previous predictions), I really fear for what sort of deal will be on the table then, maybe 90 days notice or sign mixed fleet contracts for all - what does everyone think ?
LTF
If crew reject this offer and if BA does fly 100% longhaul (and WW has been very accurate with his previous predictions), I really fear for what sort of deal will be on the table then, maybe 90 days notice or sign mixed fleet contracts for all - what does everyone think ?
LTF
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Who knows what will happen...
...I can understand why people would vote to reject it to be perfectly honest. This is coming from someone who did not support or agree with the strikes and came to work. Although I don't like the proposal - I still do fear what might happen.
But I don't really like the idea of getting rid of my future job security just like that in this proposal. I do think Mixed Fleet will take years, however there are just so many loop holes in what BA want (like redeployment) I can't help thinking it makes it EASIER for them in the future to force us over - even if it is NOT their intention now!
Like I have said before I fully agree no job is guaranteed for life - however I think you will all appreciate that we like having job security, and agreements to how change is brought in... I am sure many people would be moaning if a new fleet of pilots were brought in... remember Openskies? I think if the boot was on the other foot it would be a different ball game altogether!
Having said that I am worried of what a further strike will do!!!!
...I can understand why people would vote to reject it to be perfectly honest. This is coming from someone who did not support or agree with the strikes and came to work. Although I don't like the proposal - I still do fear what might happen.
But I don't really like the idea of getting rid of my future job security just like that in this proposal. I do think Mixed Fleet will take years, however there are just so many loop holes in what BA want (like redeployment) I can't help thinking it makes it EASIER for them in the future to force us over - even if it is NOT their intention now!
Like I have said before I fully agree no job is guaranteed for life - however I think you will all appreciate that we like having job security, and agreements to how change is brought in... I am sure many people would be moaning if a new fleet of pilots were brought in... remember Openskies? I think if the boot was on the other foot it would be a different ball game altogether!
Having said that I am worried of what a further strike will do!!!!
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Hi Sidebustle
I think any striker must consider the risk that they will be sacked.
BA statements suggest that will act decisively this time....
All IMHO & I've been totally wrong so far....
High stakes for your staff travel though
I think any striker must consider the risk that they will be sacked.
BA statements suggest that will act decisively this time....
All IMHO & I've been totally wrong so far....
High stakes for your staff travel though
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As non-crew, I understand the meaning of change, in which I have been involved several restructures of the past few years, and made sacrifices in terms of no pay rises, increase workload, etc..
So, I'm stuggling to see why CC would want to jeopardise their jobs to hold out for anything else that may come as a result of any further AI, WW and the senior management team have made it quite clear that this is the final offer, and as they have got progressively worse, it seems inevitable that the outcome of this dispute is not going to be good for those unwilling to accept that change is needed.
WW clearly has the full backing of the board and chairman, as demonstrated in yesterday's AGM, does this not make all you involved in this dispute think that now is the time to act and secure your futures, rather than hope for something better, when it isclear that up to now your branch of UNITE, BASSA have been unable to properly negotiate and appear only to use the printed word to show their feelings with no substance on how to provide a longterm solution, that doesn't require any payback.
So, I'm stuggling to see why CC would want to jeopardise their jobs to hold out for anything else that may come as a result of any further AI, WW and the senior management team have made it quite clear that this is the final offer, and as they have got progressively worse, it seems inevitable that the outcome of this dispute is not going to be good for those unwilling to accept that change is needed.
WW clearly has the full backing of the board and chairman, as demonstrated in yesterday's AGM, does this not make all you involved in this dispute think that now is the time to act and secure your futures, rather than hope for something better, when it isclear that up to now your branch of UNITE, BASSA have been unable to properly negotiate and appear only to use the printed word to show their feelings with no substance on how to provide a longterm solution, that doesn't require any payback.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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I am sure many people would be moaning if a new fleet of pilots were brought in... remember Openskies?
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HF
Scope protects us from BA and its subsiduaries. It does not protect us from the subsiduaries of TopCo or whatever it is going to be called these days. I don't think we can afford to be so cocky...
I for one can completely understand the fears of BASSA and the crew. However, I think BASSA went about it all in completely the wrong way. They should have been bending over backwards to negotiate sensibly right from the start. Putting themselves in the firing line was a huge mistake. Unfortunately, a mistake which has cost the crew very dearly, and will continue to do so. In the short term, the union have cost BA dearly too, but in the long term, I am quite sure the company will recover their money several fold.
Good luck to all but as I have said from the start, you are not going to win this one. Better to cut your losses now and accept the offer.
Scope protects us from BA and its subsiduaries. It does not protect us from the subsiduaries of TopCo or whatever it is going to be called these days. I don't think we can afford to be so cocky...
I for one can completely understand the fears of BASSA and the crew. However, I think BASSA went about it all in completely the wrong way. They should have been bending over backwards to negotiate sensibly right from the start. Putting themselves in the firing line was a huge mistake. Unfortunately, a mistake which has cost the crew very dearly, and will continue to do so. In the short term, the union have cost BA dearly too, but in the long term, I am quite sure the company will recover their money several fold.
Good luck to all but as I have said from the start, you are not going to win this one. Better to cut your losses now and accept the offer.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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It does not protect us from the subsiduaries of TopCo or whatever it is going to be called these days.
Slidebustle,
I understand some of your worries and I do feel a huge amount of sympathy for the 'moderate' cabin crew members who so many of us feel have been totally let down by the bassa reps complete intransigence.
I think that your worries regarding redeployment are unfounded. Redeployment is only used if your job disappears - that is your job as a member of the cabin crew community. I am pretty certain that any suggestion of moving cabin crew from legacy fleets to mixed fleet is NOT part of redeployment.
If the cabin crew once again vote to reject the latest offer I think it will be the end for them. WW and management have been incredibily patient throughout this whole sorry affair. Sending individuals the latest offer and giving them an opportunity to sign as an individual is a very clever move - and I am certain that there will be a huge take-up of that offer.
If bassa vote for more IA - I would hope that WW will still give those who wish the opportunity to accept the offer as an individual that last chance to sign.
For the strikers I hope that WW issues them 90 days notice of a change of contract onto mixed fleet conditions - take it or leave it!!
The strikers account for less than 10% of the employees of BA. It is therefore time that WW finally sorted out those people ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!
I understand some of your worries and I do feel a huge amount of sympathy for the 'moderate' cabin crew members who so many of us feel have been totally let down by the bassa reps complete intransigence.
I think that your worries regarding redeployment are unfounded. Redeployment is only used if your job disappears - that is your job as a member of the cabin crew community. I am pretty certain that any suggestion of moving cabin crew from legacy fleets to mixed fleet is NOT part of redeployment.
If the cabin crew once again vote to reject the latest offer I think it will be the end for them. WW and management have been incredibily patient throughout this whole sorry affair. Sending individuals the latest offer and giving them an opportunity to sign as an individual is a very clever move - and I am certain that there will be a huge take-up of that offer.
If bassa vote for more IA - I would hope that WW will still give those who wish the opportunity to accept the offer as an individual that last chance to sign.
For the strikers I hope that WW issues them 90 days notice of a change of contract onto mixed fleet conditions - take it or leave it!!
The strikers account for less than 10% of the employees of BA. It is therefore time that WW finally sorted out those people ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!!
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I for one can completely understand the fears of BASSA and the crew. However, I think BASSA went about it all in completely the wrong way. They should have been bending over backwards to negotiate sensibly right from the start. Putting themselves in the firing line was a huge mistake. Unfortunately, a mistake which has cost the crew very dearly, and will continue to do so. In the short term, the union have cost BA dearly too, but in the long term, I am quite sure the company will recover their money several fold.
We are all fearful/mindful of how Mixed Fleet is going to affect us. The fatal mistake was that BASSA stirred the entire community up into voting against one crew member off an aeroplane.
They should have agreed the crew complements in return for some hard and fast securities for us (high MTP, specific route transfer deal, % of route transfers etc) against Mixed Fleet. It may be that with careful negotiation, Mixed Fleet, could have been avoided all together. I believe that was what BA was hoping for.
Instead, Mixed Fleet has been brought in with NO INPUT from our community whatsoever. Temps are working alongside us on constant 24hr availability - NO INPUT on that either. The crew community is now in complete disarray - not knowing which way to turn.
Slidebustle, there is little point trying to analyse things too much now - the damage, as outlined above, has been done. This is simply about damage limitation for our existing community. The offer is a good one and whether we accept or reject it has no bearing on Mixed Fleet at all. Mixed Fleet is a fait accompli. Reading the mind-numbing, forest-destroying BASSA publication about the offer will only serve to muddle the mind. Set yourself free by ONLY reading the offer from BA, and then decide if you like it or not. Then sign, or don't sign based on the facts contained in the offer.
It really is that simple.
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LTF
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HiFlyer14
I wish it was as simple as that.
Unfortunately no-one who is still in the union can accept on an individual basis. The only thing to do in this case if you want to accept the offer is vote yes now. My worry is that the majority won't and a ballot to strike will soon follow. In my opinion nothing positive will come out of further striking. Scary times!
I wish it was as simple as that.
Unfortunately no-one who is still in the union can accept on an individual basis. The only thing to do in this case if you want to accept the offer is vote yes now. My worry is that the majority won't and a ballot to strike will soon follow. In my opinion nothing positive will come out of further striking. Scary times!