British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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The explanation why so many groundstaff have volunteered to be VCC, is they think that this is a bypass of the system to become full time cabin crew, rather than any loyalty to British Airways.
Oh dear. I'm a little lost for words now....A first for me.
There is little for backers of BA to worry about folks, so calm down! The end is nigh for the BASSAmentalists. Thank goodness. They have chosen to take the final turn in the path to oblivion, and it will happen. Good riddance to those who can't be bothered to work for and with the company - we can't wait to see the back of the trouble makers. Hurrah!
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Duncan wrote:
I am an Engineer and have no aspirations of being full-time CC.
I am VCC for my future and that of BA.
NO OTHER REASON "Duggie".
Stop trying to find points to score where they are not even on offer.
By the way - I notice you pick and choose the posts to respond to.
I thought with all your spare time Duncan - you'd be able to read and respond to each one.
The explanation why so many groundstaff have volunteered to be VCC, is they think that this is a bypass of the system to become full time cabin crew, rather than any loyalty to British Airways.
Most groundstaff are envious of the cabin crew and very few crew ever leave flying to work on the ground, unless it is for medical reasons.
Most groundstaff are envious of the cabin crew and very few crew ever leave flying to work on the ground, unless it is for medical reasons.
I am VCC for my future and that of BA.
NO OTHER REASON "Duggie".
Stop trying to find points to score where they are not even on offer.
By the way - I notice you pick and choose the posts to respond to.
I thought with all your spare time Duncan - you'd be able to read and respond to each one.
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Juan Tripp
I also think todays figures suggest that the real amount of strikers is probably around the 3500 - 5000 mark. A very small minority indeed considering they keep posting on other forums that there are only 1 or 2 non strikers on each of their trips. Hasn't crossed their tiny little minds that crew may tell a little white lie to make life easier?
It looks like another ballot is inevitable, although I dare say there will be some desperate attempts by unite to get a deal after these damming ballot results today. Mind you if they continue to ballot crew like me who left the union in March then I fear another injunction?
I say let them strike though, with the help of our colleagues around the company we will get the 100% long haul schedule we need and we can then wave goodbye to the people who do not want to accept reasonable changes. Changes that will no doubt seem more than reasonable after a few weeks on the dole!
I also think todays figures suggest that the real amount of strikers is probably around the 3500 - 5000 mark. A very small minority indeed considering they keep posting on other forums that there are only 1 or 2 non strikers on each of their trips. Hasn't crossed their tiny little minds that crew may tell a little white lie to make life easier?
It looks like another ballot is inevitable, although I dare say there will be some desperate attempts by unite to get a deal after these damming ballot results today. Mind you if they continue to ballot crew like me who left the union in March then I fear another injunction?
I say let them strike though, with the help of our colleagues around the company we will get the 100% long haul schedule we need and we can then wave goodbye to the people who do not want to accept reasonable changes. Changes that will no doubt seem more than reasonable after a few weeks on the dole!
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Duggie,
Count the votes again, mate. 3500 or so out of 10000+ does not a majority make.
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It was NOT a "reasonable" offer, that is why it has been rejected.
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I am flight crew and for personal reasons I have not previously put myself forward to be VCC. However if BASSA again call for prolonged strike action as we have already seen I will volunteer.
I do this not because I hate CC; not because I want to see BASSA trashed; not because I think CC should earn minimum wage but because BASSA is endangering the long term prospects of my employer and therefore me whilst simultaneously winning their members nothing.
So CC, please don't call me names when you see me pushing a trolley as I try to our customers with us.
BASSA has got itself into this predicament. The leadership played with fire and got alot of it's members burnt (loss of ST, bullying, resentment between friends, alienation at work etc.). Now it wants to try the same tactics but expects a different result. Please step back whilst you still have something to lose.
I do this not because I hate CC; not because I want to see BASSA trashed; not because I think CC should earn minimum wage but because BASSA is endangering the long term prospects of my employer and therefore me whilst simultaneously winning their members nothing.
So CC, please don't call me names when you see me pushing a trolley as I try to our customers with us.
BASSA has got itself into this predicament. The leadership played with fire and got alot of it's members burnt (loss of ST, bullying, resentment between friends, alienation at work etc.). Now it wants to try the same tactics but expects a different result. Please step back whilst you still have something to lose.
Last edited by demomonkey; 20th Jul 2010 at 19:11.
What a surprise!
3500 CC have lost staff travel, 3500 CC vote to reject the offer.
Now of the 4,000 odd CC who were Bassa members and chose not to express an opinion, would any of them care to explain why? Would they accept that yet again they have failed to prevent Bassa from dragging the company's name through the mud?
As in the past, the so called moderate majority have failed through lack of courage to stand up to 3500 more militant members.
You deserve what is coming just as surely as those who voted to reject the offrer.
3500 CC have lost staff travel, 3500 CC vote to reject the offer.
Now of the 4,000 odd CC who were Bassa members and chose not to express an opinion, would any of them care to explain why? Would they accept that yet again they have failed to prevent Bassa from dragging the company's name through the mud?
As in the past, the so called moderate majority have failed through lack of courage to stand up to 3500 more militant members.
You deserve what is coming just as surely as those who voted to reject the offrer.
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What I find touching here is that somehow the pilots, engineers and other groundstaff who are cheering Willie on, seem to think that they will be immune from his attentions later on? If he beats the cabin crew, the rest of you will simply roll over and get it where the sun don't shine.
The engineers here who are surplus to requirements are fritting their time away training as trolley dollies, whilst the longhaul fleet have AML part 2's full of ADD's which impact on the customers. Poor old G-BNLV has been pulled out of the desert and flown to Cardiff. That will keep our enginners busy when it re-enters service. Whilst Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and the rest operate nice gleamy new aircraft, Willie is spending the cash beating up his cabin crew. Passengers on BA have to fly on semi-retired aircraft with ground engineers and pilots as cabin crew. What an encouragement to book with British Airways! Even I don't fly with BA for my commuting!!
Walsh already had his spin script prepared before the ballot was posted out. But this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone .You could have seen this response coming before the proposal was even put to the membership.Same old argument: if you have not raised any objection , then you have agreed !!
As I have said before the 'General' needs to be replaced before more money and troops are expended on a failed strategy. No comfort at all for BA in the ballot result in spite of putting on the bravest of faces. Let's see what happens in the real ballot.
In the meantime, BA goes down the tubes.
The engineers here who are surplus to requirements are fritting their time away training as trolley dollies, whilst the longhaul fleet have AML part 2's full of ADD's which impact on the customers. Poor old G-BNLV has been pulled out of the desert and flown to Cardiff. That will keep our enginners busy when it re-enters service. Whilst Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and the rest operate nice gleamy new aircraft, Willie is spending the cash beating up his cabin crew. Passengers on BA have to fly on semi-retired aircraft with ground engineers and pilots as cabin crew. What an encouragement to book with British Airways! Even I don't fly with BA for my commuting!!
Walsh already had his spin script prepared before the ballot was posted out. But this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone .You could have seen this response coming before the proposal was even put to the membership.Same old argument: if you have not raised any objection , then you have agreed !!
As I have said before the 'General' needs to be replaced before more money and troops are expended on a failed strategy. No comfort at all for BA in the ballot result in spite of putting on the bravest of faces. Let's see what happens in the real ballot.
In the meantime, BA goes down the tubes.
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Well Ranger the strategy has failed simply because we are going to a third ballot. The blueprint for union busting is to provoke a strike and then defeat it. Over 100 university academics have recognised the tactic and are supporting us.
Therefore, negotiations were never going to get anywhere as the mantra was to put BASSA out of business first, rather than negotiate cost savings.
Therefore, negotiations were never going to get anywhere as the mantra was to put BASSA out of business first, rather than negotiate cost savings.
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What I find touching here is that somehow the pilots, engineers and other groundstaff who are cheering Willie on, seem to think that they will be immune from his attentions later on? If he beats the cabin crew, the rest of you will simply roll over and get it where the sun don't shine.
Whilst Emirates, Etihad, Qatar and the rest operate nice gleamy new aircraft, Willie is spending the cash beating up his cabin crew.
Walsh already had his spin script prepared before the ballot was posted out.
As I have said before the 'General' needs to be replaced before more money and troops are expended on a failed strategy.
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Flap62
What a surprise!
3500 CC have lost staff travel, 3500 CC vote to reject the offer.
Now of the 4,000 odd CC who were Bassa members and chose not to express an opinion, would any of them care to explain why? Would they accept that yet again they have failed to prevent Bassa from dragging the company's name through the mud?
As in the past, the so called moderate majority have failed through lack of courage to stand up to 3500 more militant members.
You deserve what is coming just as surely as those who voted to reject the offrer.
3500 CC have lost staff travel, 3500 CC vote to reject the offer.
Now of the 4,000 odd CC who were Bassa members and chose not to express an opinion, would any of them care to explain why? Would they accept that yet again they have failed to prevent Bassa from dragging the company's name through the mud?
As in the past, the so called moderate majority have failed through lack of courage to stand up to 3500 more militant members.
You deserve what is coming just as surely as those who voted to reject the offrer.
I thought the 'moderates' would conclude this in being overwhelming in favour of acceptance.
Something wrong here. Can anyone explain their reasons for not voting? Your choice of course, but a touch bewildering.
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3rd Defect, apart from the few 777-300's coming, the A380's have had their delivery dates deferred and even All Nippon airways will not get their first 787 until early 2012.
Thr youngest 747-400 is over 13 years old and even the 777's have been flying since 97. The 767-300's are all around 20 years old. Overall it is a geriatric fleet.
Thr youngest 747-400 is over 13 years old and even the 777's have been flying since 97. The 767-300's are all around 20 years old. Overall it is a geriatric fleet.
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CB. Other departments settled because they were offered a much sweeter deal than cabin crew. Have you got new employees coming in on new contracts with much lower pay and inverior T&C's? No I didn't think so.
Surely someone would do your job for less than you?
Surely someone would do your job for less than you?
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The airline made a revised offer in June that includes two years of guaranteed rises in basic pay from February 2011 on top of annual increment pay increases and gives certainty to crew about their future earnings. There are no cuts in pay and current Heathrow crew remain the best rewarded in the UK airline industry.
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Over 100 university academics have recognised the tactic and are supporting us.
It would be more impressive if you could claim the support of 100 of your colleagues from other departments.
Therefore, negotiations were never going to get anywhere as the mantra was to put BASSA out of business first, rather than negotiate cost savings.
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I've always said that there are about 4,000 hard core BASSAmentalists. The ballot indicates circa 3,400 deluded crew who can't see that they've lost. Most will be on 33 or 50%, so can be replaced by 1,200-1,500 new full time crew. How many new fleet crew are being recruited?!!!
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I have heard that new crew are currently being trained in the evenings, by an external agency, at a secret location (so they do not come into contact with current BASSA crew) ... 100% of longhaul aircraft should now be possible
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Other departments settled because they were offered a much sweeter deal than cabin crew.
How many departments have been offered a 2.9% rise for next year and a 3% one the year after?
I'm still waiting to be told what we're being offered for Feb 2009.
Besides, one minute you're claiming the only reason we sign up to be VCC is for the chance to be paid more by becoming CC and the next mute you're claiming we've had better pay deals than CC.
Which is it?
Have you got new employees coming in on new contracts with much lower pay and inverior T&C's? No I didn't think so.
We don't have any new employees and don't imagine we'll be seeing any in a long time. Instead we're expected to deliver the same (if not more) with fewer people to do our bit to help the company survive.
Last edited by DeThirdDefect; 20th Jul 2010 at 19:07.
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Duggie,
We've had better deals than cabin crew? I can't remember the last time I got a pay rise and I see no prospect of one in the near/medium term.
Who alone has been offered a pay rise? Hint: they work in the passenger compartment of aircraft.
We've had better deals than cabin crew? I can't remember the last time I got a pay rise and I see no prospect of one in the near/medium term.
Who alone has been offered a pay rise? Hint: they work in the passenger compartment of aircraft.