British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Your role may be light years away from how it was 20 years ago, but have your earnings been decimated to where they were 20 years ago? Thats what crew are concerned about.
and dont talk about losing allowances on the 'good' routes.
Look at the long ranges gone over the last 10 years because they don't make any money. KUL, a reduction to HKG and NRT. GIG has fewer services too.
CC need the restructure to allow BA to open up new routes, making us more profitable and securing our future!
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Bill Francis has now said that seniority will be returned on your commuting route
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I just don't understand why commuters should be treated different to the rest of the crew who live near the airport. Why should they achieve staff travel back but the rest can't (at the moment anyway). Don't get me wrong, I agree with staff travel being removed for strikers, and I don't mind if it gets given back (new seniority) if there's an agreement.
People choose where they live.... (no, I don't want to hear about recruitment in various parts of Europe x amount of years ago)
People choose where they live.... (no, I don't want to hear about recruitment in various parts of Europe x amount of years ago)
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Juan Togoh
This is an extract from 'report call sign' post on the previous page. I may be reading it wrong, but it sounds like seniority returning on the commuting flight.
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
This is an extract from 'report call sign' post on the previous page. I may be reading it wrong, but it sounds like seniority returning on the commuting flight.
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
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erm, no...
This is an extract from 'report call sign' post on the previous page. I may be reading it wrong, but it sounds like seniority returning on the commuting flight.
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
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PC767 wrote:
Certain agreements are incorporated into individual contracts, some are not - like the crew complements agreement which cover planning for and deployment of thousands of cabin crew.
This one says that if you strike, you lose variable top up pay. It's contractual because it's individual to the employee.
Easy.
Easy.
That isn't a contract of employment, it is an agreement. The top up pay is not being incorporated into your contract of employment, which is why, should you strike it will be removed.
That isn't a contract of employment, it is an agreement. The top up pay is not being incorporated into your contract of employment, which is why, should you strike it will be removed.
This one says that if you strike, you lose variable top up pay. It's contractual because it's individual to the employee.
Easy.
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Eligibility?
Just to pick up something:
What exactly does 'eligibility', mean? There is no explicit wording saying that seniority will be restored.
If I was a commuter who had lost their staff travel as a consequence of going on strike, I would want that wording clarified.
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
If I was a commuter who had lost their staff travel as a consequence of going on strike, I would want that wording clarified.
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PC767
Easy.
That isn't a contract of employment, it is an agreement. The top up pay is not being incorporated into your contract of employment, which is why, should you strike it will be removed.
And it isn't bad, just the points I raised need addressing. I'm not looking for unlimited guarantees and promises. Just a guaranteed framework of trips and/or trip movements between fleet which will protect future earnings. Is it now unreasonable to at least expect some say in what we earn.
Year one on old fleet will be fine. Earn bellow the average of yr 2009/10 and the company will top you up. But throughout the year box trips are moved across to new fleet. In extremis old fleet are left with Africa and India trips. That will drop the average variable payments for the year 2010/11. I would like to know now if my 2011 top up will reflect the 'new' average or the 2009/10 average. The guarantee I'm after is the detail used for future top up payments. The company may happily state that the top up will be reviewed yearly. I can then make my mind up if I like the guarantee or not. At least I know where I stand.
That isn't a contract of employment, it is an agreement. The top up pay is not being incorporated into your contract of employment, which is why, should you strike it will be removed.
And it isn't bad, just the points I raised need addressing. I'm not looking for unlimited guarantees and promises. Just a guaranteed framework of trips and/or trip movements between fleet which will protect future earnings. Is it now unreasonable to at least expect some say in what we earn.
Year one on old fleet will be fine. Earn bellow the average of yr 2009/10 and the company will top you up. But throughout the year box trips are moved across to new fleet. In extremis old fleet are left with Africa and India trips. That will drop the average variable payments for the year 2010/11. I would like to know now if my 2011 top up will reflect the 'new' average or the 2009/10 average. The guarantee I'm after is the detail used for future top up payments. The company may happily state that the top up will be reviewed yearly. I can then make my mind up if I like the guarantee or not. At least I know where I stand.
ALL FUTURE "top up" payments will be based on a trigger figure of 2009/10s ACTUAL flying schedule
When Current fleets get smaller and smaller and the routes get less and less, there still will remain enough "work" on those fleets for the crew on them....IE Bill francis wants to maximise your 900 hours so you are efficient and effective to the business.
Now lets say some or even alot of the high earning routes have LEFT current fleet (which will happen to reflect expansion growth and commercial requirements) you still will be working a full roster, you will still be paid the top up payent,,,,you will NEVER earn less than the trigger figure. Even if it means you have done 50 New yorks in that year and no other destinations. Unlikely, but you get my drift!
so
in answer to your question "The contract is binding and legal in the eyes of the law between you and your employer. you will both have signed it............ you can look to pick it to pieces and never choose to lay out any trust, however if thats the case i ask you this one vital question
WHAT do you actually want?
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Also, this commuting route thing could be open to abuse. How about I say that I commute from LAX when I don't (I just like going on holiday there). I suppose they would need proof of residency?
And also, why should one group of strikers (commuters) get an advantage over strikers who live in say Brighton, for example? It seems to put one group at an advantage over another.
AD
And also, why should one group of strikers (commuters) get an advantage over strikers who live in say Brighton, for example? It seems to put one group at an advantage over another.
AD
Staff Travel
"If you are a commuter who has lost eligibility, it will be returned on the route from your home to work as soon as our offer is accepted and signed by Unite."
Last edited by Abbey Road; 7th Jul 2010 at 21:08. Reason: Spelling! :-(
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This will not include staff travel seniority. It is only, as mentioned by the company several weeks back, that ST will be returned to commuters asap, and to the rest of the strikers later in the year (October?). Seniority for strikers has been lost in toto for the time being!
So I suppose this is no good to Ava Hannah and the rest of the strikers?
Whats the feeling out there, amongst the strikers about this proposal? Think it will be accepted? I am not at work at the moment, so can't tell.
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If there is no restoration of ST DOJ for the commuter route there is precious little reason for strikers like Ava to accept this current offer. This would be a shame as it represents a missed opportunity.
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BA's Walsh to guarantee flights if new strike
Just seen this on Google News. (I'm BA crew down at LGW btw - someone told me about it earlier today at Jubilee House). 100% of all flights? I get the impression that this is the last throw of the dice for Unite/BASSA because what happens when the strike can't stop one flight getting away? Interesting times and I hope this is resolved in the not too distant future.
(Reuters) - British Airways will be able to guarantee all of its flights should there be any new strike action, the company's Chief Executive Willie Walsh said in an interview on Wednesday.
"If in case of a strike 100 percent of flights will, as we believe, be guaranteed, British (Airways) will not only not lose money it will end up saving," Walsh told Il Sole 24 Ore.
The days when the trade unions could ground airway companies were gone, he said.
Walsh said flight personnel costs had been cut by 45 percent. "In terms of annual savings the benefit to the company is 65 million pounds per year. For now," Walsh said.
Walsh said the credit crunch had forced BA to cut its flight capacity by about 10 percent. "At the moment we have recouped about 1.5 percent of the lost quota," he said.
(Reuters) - British Airways will be able to guarantee all of its flights should there be any new strike action, the company's Chief Executive Willie Walsh said in an interview on Wednesday.
"If in case of a strike 100 percent of flights will, as we believe, be guaranteed, British (Airways) will not only not lose money it will end up saving," Walsh told Il Sole 24 Ore.
The days when the trade unions could ground airway companies were gone, he said.
Walsh said flight personnel costs had been cut by 45 percent. "In terms of annual savings the benefit to the company is 65 million pounds per year. For now," Walsh said.
Walsh said the credit crunch had forced BA to cut its flight capacity by about 10 percent. "At the moment we have recouped about 1.5 percent of the lost quota," he said.
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I have a question - What kind of percentage is needed to accept this proposal? I cannot find anywhere what the acceptance rate (if indeed there is one) and what is the threshold for the deal to go through.
Does anyone know?
Does anyone know?
If there is no restoration of ST DOJ for the commuter route there is precious little reason for strikers like Ava to accept this current offer.
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What kind of percentage is needed to accept this proposal? I cannot find anywhere what the acceptance rate (if indeed there is one) and what is the threshold for the deal to go through.
Junior trash
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Might be worth noting that BA have already intimated in a letter to Unite that they believe the ballot grievances are a continuation of the existing dispute - haven't seen Unite deny this.
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I think the general consensus from strikers - is this proposal is certainly not good enough.
As for non-strikers - it may be mixed - think there will be many that will sign or vote YES for it (especially non-unionised) but I think there could be some who either won't vote or will Vote NO!
There are good points of it, but some of it is very vague and with Mixed Fleet here with 1250 already, we NEED contractual agreements.
There can never be GUARANTEES in the sense ''you are guaranteed a job and salary for life'' - unfortunately BUT when people say they want guarantees I think what they mean is that when BA say ''WE INTEND TO TRANSFER WORK FAIRLY'' - they want them to guarantee that by putting a matrix of routes/and actually state very clearly an exact way they will ensure this... They could then say ''any changes in BAs route network/disposal of routes will be reviewed with UNITE at the TUC at the time'' - this will ensure if say they dropped the HKG route - then they wouldn't have UNITE balloting a strike because they took the HKG route off us - because there was this condition in there. BUT at the same time it ensures that whilst HKG IS a route at BA it won't be unfairly taken off WW and given to MF.
That's what I think people mean by guarantees. More like contractual agreements!
We are very reliant on our allowances - and they vary greatly so we do need to maintain that.
As for non-strikers - it may be mixed - think there will be many that will sign or vote YES for it (especially non-unionised) but I think there could be some who either won't vote or will Vote NO!
There are good points of it, but some of it is very vague and with Mixed Fleet here with 1250 already, we NEED contractual agreements.
There can never be GUARANTEES in the sense ''you are guaranteed a job and salary for life'' - unfortunately BUT when people say they want guarantees I think what they mean is that when BA say ''WE INTEND TO TRANSFER WORK FAIRLY'' - they want them to guarantee that by putting a matrix of routes/and actually state very clearly an exact way they will ensure this... They could then say ''any changes in BAs route network/disposal of routes will be reviewed with UNITE at the TUC at the time'' - this will ensure if say they dropped the HKG route - then they wouldn't have UNITE balloting a strike because they took the HKG route off us - because there was this condition in there. BUT at the same time it ensures that whilst HKG IS a route at BA it won't be unfairly taken off WW and given to MF.
That's what I think people mean by guarantees. More like contractual agreements!
We are very reliant on our allowances - and they vary greatly so we do need to maintain that.
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Posted by MRC1972
Well for your information the first intake for Mixed Fleet will be handing their resignation sooner than you think...... Most EX Temps applied to Virgin when we got layed off spring 09, were successful and put on hold. A little interview and the job is ours to start training in September.
So they want crew to stick around for 2-3 years? hardly any crew are going to last 3 months. I think all of us EX temps are frustrated as we don't know if we're coming or going at the moment and would like to stay with BA but now we find it hard to see a future.
Well for your information the first intake for Mixed Fleet will be handing their resignation sooner than you think...... Most EX Temps applied to Virgin when we got layed off spring 09, were successful and put on hold. A little interview and the job is ours to start training in September.
So they want crew to stick around for 2-3 years? hardly any crew are going to last 3 months. I think all of us EX temps are frustrated as we don't know if we're coming or going at the moment and would like to stay with BA but now we find it hard to see a future.
Are you sure Virgin will be around long term? They are trying to sell the company, and it's no secret that Singapore Airlines want to sell/reduce their 49% stake in Virgin. Long haul is dominated by the alliances - Star and Oneworld, and Virgin doesn't belong to any. I'd be careful about this if I were you. BA has its faults, but it has more chance of still being here in 5 years - and growing thanks to its links with Iberia and American don't you think?
Incidentally, a bit of a personal question having noticed your age if that's your right age, just wondered what made you start flying at such a late stage in your life.