British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
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Whenever I read your posts Hot Wings I am always shocked by what you say.
These 'minor grievances' are all the claims for the docking of pay for days after the strikes. For example someone who striked on the last day of the strike and then phoned in to say they were now not on strike had there pay docked for all the days up until they actually worked again. Now I don't know if that is ok or not but I know that the crew that did talk to their managers were actually told by BA to put in a grievance.
In all my years working for BA I have never met someone who has put in a grievance against anyone, so your statement about all these spurious grievances seems very strange to me. Reading your posts I sometimes wonder if we work for the same airline.
These 'minor grievances' are all the claims for the docking of pay for days after the strikes. For example someone who striked on the last day of the strike and then phoned in to say they were now not on strike had there pay docked for all the days up until they actually worked again. Now I don't know if that is ok or not but I know that the crew that did talk to their managers were actually told by BA to put in a grievance.
In all my years working for BA I have never met someone who has put in a grievance against anyone, so your statement about all these spurious grievances seems very strange to me. Reading your posts I sometimes wonder if we work for the same airline.
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Cake - and eating it
Betty Girl
I really enjoy your posts, which are refreshing and well composed.
However, comma, how can someone go on strike on the last day, then declare themselves 'not on strike,' when the strike is over, and expect to be paid for the subsequent days? It had been made abundantly clear that strikers would not be paid until they were back at work, which would be according to the (perhaps revised) roster.
"You can't have your cake and eat it too!"
I really enjoy your posts, which are refreshing and well composed.
However, comma, how can someone go on strike on the last day, then declare themselves 'not on strike,' when the strike is over, and expect to be paid for the subsequent days? It had been made abundantly clear that strikers would not be paid until they were back at work, which would be according to the (perhaps revised) roster.
"You can't have your cake and eat it too!"
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Neptune,
As you know I did not go on strike, so I have nothing to do with these grievances. I was just making the point that those that have been to their manager to say they thought, what was deducted was unfair, have been told to put in a grievance, that all.
I was not saying either way if it was right or wrong. I expect some will be ruled as unfair and some will be seen to be fair but as I have NO details of any of them so I don't actually know.
My post was really made because I was surprised at Hot Wings post about cabin crew 'frequently' putting in 'spurious grievances' about Captains and the like!!!Not something I ever see, let alone on a frequent basis!!!
P.S. I find your post balanced and interesting. Thanks.
As you know I did not go on strike, so I have nothing to do with these grievances. I was just making the point that those that have been to their manager to say they thought, what was deducted was unfair, have been told to put in a grievance, that all.
I was not saying either way if it was right or wrong. I expect some will be ruled as unfair and some will be seen to be fair but as I have NO details of any of them so I don't actually know.
My post was really made because I was surprised at Hot Wings post about cabin crew 'frequently' putting in 'spurious grievances' about Captains and the like!!!Not something I ever see, let alone on a frequent basis!!!
P.S. I find your post balanced and interesting. Thanks.
Last edited by Betty girl; 1st Oct 2010 at 08:49.
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Hotwings,
Just thinking about your recent posts and I started to wonder are you a Captain yourself ? And have you maybe had a grievance filled against you at some time recently? That just might explain the reason for your obvious dislike of current cabin crew!!
Have you had a look a Virgin's latest ad. It is on the SLF threads. There are lots of 'dols' on the ad. Maybe you would be more happy working for Virgin.
If you are hoping that Mixed fleet is going to be like that I think you might be very disappointed. The crew I have met are really great crew but none of them were wearing 5 inch heals or resembled a dol at all.
Of course joking apart Virgin girls in reality are not dols either. They are nice normal crew very like alot of BA crew. I am sure some of them might be very upset at the sexual nature of the latest ad even if it is a bit tongue in cheek.
Just thinking about your recent posts and I started to wonder are you a Captain yourself ? And have you maybe had a grievance filled against you at some time recently? That just might explain the reason for your obvious dislike of current cabin crew!!
Have you had a look a Virgin's latest ad. It is on the SLF threads. There are lots of 'dols' on the ad. Maybe you would be more happy working for Virgin.
If you are hoping that Mixed fleet is going to be like that I think you might be very disappointed. The crew I have met are really great crew but none of them were wearing 5 inch heals or resembled a dol at all.
Of course joking apart Virgin girls in reality are not dols either. They are nice normal crew very like alot of BA crew. I am sure some of them might be very upset at the sexual nature of the latest ad even if it is a bit tongue in cheek.
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Betty Girl,
Unlike some, I am old enough and wise enough to know that the grass is not always greener - something I realised when I joined BA. Still, you get used to it here after a year or two.
With regards to grievances, I was refering to "minor" grievances. I would say that an issue over pay is not a minor grievance, however, were the company not clear in stating that a striker would not be paid again until they were next rostered for work? It may be an alien concept but if you withdraw your labour and inconvenience our passengers then do you expect to be treated as loyal employees?
If anyone doubts what I have said about minor grievances, talk to your managers and ask them, ask your CSDs or captains even. They will all have examples; use of jump seats, rest seats, upgrades, hands in pockets, uniform standards (the dreaded L word), even cling-ons on crew transport! Some people don't like what they're asked or told to do, so they file a grievance. It would be naive to think that it doesn't go on and, to some extent, it explains why so many flight crew and CSDs/pursers let things go unchallenged - even cabin crew managers are afraid of having grievances filed against them!
Unlike some, I am old enough and wise enough to know that the grass is not always greener - something I realised when I joined BA. Still, you get used to it here after a year or two.
With regards to grievances, I was refering to "minor" grievances. I would say that an issue over pay is not a minor grievance, however, were the company not clear in stating that a striker would not be paid again until they were next rostered for work? It may be an alien concept but if you withdraw your labour and inconvenience our passengers then do you expect to be treated as loyal employees?
If anyone doubts what I have said about minor grievances, talk to your managers and ask them, ask your CSDs or captains even. They will all have examples; use of jump seats, rest seats, upgrades, hands in pockets, uniform standards (the dreaded L word), even cling-ons on crew transport! Some people don't like what they're asked or told to do, so they file a grievance. It would be naive to think that it doesn't go on and, to some extent, it explains why so many flight crew and CSDs/pursers let things go unchallenged - even cabin crew managers are afraid of having grievances filed against them!
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Thanks for your response Hotwings,
I personally am not aware of lots of crew taking out trivial grievances like the ones you mention but in a company the size of BA I would not be surprised if there were some grievances taken out by all sections of the airline.
I doubt many would be for trivial things like you mention and as I said earlier, I have never met anyone who has been through any grievance system in my whole career with BA, which I think sounds longer than yours, so far.
You must have a lot of bad luck flying with such difficult crew all the time, I wonder if other flight crew share your experience. Hopefully loads of you wont join in and agree with Hotwings for that would make for a truly sad state of affairs. I always have a great relationship with my flight crew colleagues and reading your underlying dislike of most BA cabin crew is quite upsetting.
I personally am not aware of lots of crew taking out trivial grievances like the ones you mention but in a company the size of BA I would not be surprised if there were some grievances taken out by all sections of the airline.
I doubt many would be for trivial things like you mention and as I said earlier, I have never met anyone who has been through any grievance system in my whole career with BA, which I think sounds longer than yours, so far.
You must have a lot of bad luck flying with such difficult crew all the time, I wonder if other flight crew share your experience. Hopefully loads of you wont join in and agree with Hotwings for that would make for a truly sad state of affairs. I always have a great relationship with my flight crew colleagues and reading your underlying dislike of most BA cabin crew is quite upsetting.
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Hot Wings
I have to agree with Betty - I must have worked in a different company to you for the last 24 years as I most certainly have never heard of any trivial grievances - the like of which you are referring too.
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Actually I also think Hot Wings is mistaken unless he can substantiate it. As a CSD I can say that CC tend to have an abhorrence of all things 'office' and prefer to deal with things out on line. Largely they avoid their managers like the plague and go to great lengths not to visit the desks at CRC let alone Waterside. They may well down load the forms and carry them around in their bags for a while but I bet very few ever get round to being completed. If they have a moan then they head for the coffee shop, the TV room or the Union offices and let off steam to other crew. There may have been an increase during the dispute but that is to be expected.
On a different note, I received a letter today from Unite strongly urging me to reconsider my membership and rejoin at the earliest convenience. Particularly they say, as BA has been apathetic about getting to the negotiating table!
On a different note, I received a letter today from Unite strongly urging me to reconsider my membership and rejoin at the earliest convenience. Particularly they say, as BA has been apathetic about getting to the negotiating table!
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#15,
Whilst not too prevelant the 'minor greivances' sadly exist. The main recipients I know of tend to be the flight crew when the CC member believes that the flight crew have not excercised CRM correctly and 'informed/told' them to do something.
Whilst not having been the recipient of one myself I have flown with many who have been and one friend who was the target of a very personal and very pointed attack on the BASSA forum.
Just because you don't have first hand experience of it happening doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Whilst not too prevelant the 'minor greivances' sadly exist. The main recipients I know of tend to be the flight crew when the CC member believes that the flight crew have not excercised CRM correctly and 'informed/told' them to do something.
Whilst not having been the recipient of one myself I have flown with many who have been and one friend who was the target of a very personal and very pointed attack on the BASSA forum.
Just because you don't have first hand experience of it happening doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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As I said I have never heard of grievances being taken out for such trivial matters - they need their arses kicking if thats what some people do - regardless of if they went on strike or not
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numberfifteenplease,
Considering that you can't even tell which parts of the recent "Brutish Airways" newsletter were fabricated, I do believe that we actually live on entirely different planets!
ottergirl,
I obviously cannot post details of private grievances on here but I'm glad that you concede that the dispute has caused an increase! All I can say is go and ask your managers.
Betty girl,
Please be don't be upset by any perceived dislike of most cabin crew. In fact, here on EF the majority of crew are great - it almost feels like an entirely different company. The snag is, though, that there are an awful lot of BA employees who are not happy about the actions of BASSA.
Considering that you can't even tell which parts of the recent "Brutish Airways" newsletter were fabricated, I do believe that we actually live on entirely different planets!
ottergirl,
I obviously cannot post details of private grievances on here but I'm glad that you concede that the dispute has caused an increase! All I can say is go and ask your managers.
Betty girl,
Please be don't be upset by any perceived dislike of most cabin crew. In fact, here on EF the majority of crew are great - it almost feels like an entirely different company. The snag is, though, that there are an awful lot of BA employees who are not happy about the actions of BASSA.
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numberfifteenplease,
We crossed posts. I am led to believe that there will soon be a re-write of the whole policy in order to stop manager's time being wasted by trivial grievances. Perhaps, it is just the same people making lots of complaints?
We crossed posts. I am led to believe that there will soon be a re-write of the whole policy in order to stop manager's time being wasted by trivial grievances. Perhaps, it is just the same people making lots of complaints?
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Hot Wings,
I am so pleased that you find most of us on E/F to be great, that has made me feel a lot better.
I hope you will agree that it is surely only a small number of crew on WW that were not nice for you to work with when you were there. I know that most crew are actually nice people because it would be very hard to do this kind of a job if you did not like getting on with others.
Anyway, maybe we will fly together soon or maybe we already have. x
I am so pleased that you find most of us on E/F to be great, that has made me feel a lot better.
I hope you will agree that it is surely only a small number of crew on WW that were not nice for you to work with when you were there. I know that most crew are actually nice people because it would be very hard to do this kind of a job if you did not like getting on with others.
Anyway, maybe we will fly together soon or maybe we already have. x
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Miss BA ,
You really should report it if people are being mean to you because you are using staff travel. I would not tolerate any of my crew being mean to commuters and I find that crew follow the example set by the Purser or CSD that they are working with.
Some strikers feel very let down by us for working through the strike but it is totally unacceptable for them to be unpleasant to you or anyone on a flight. I recently had another Purser working down on one of my flights and he was obsessed with looking at the PIL. I can only imagine how he would have been if he had been in charge.
Don't tolerate this behavior Miss BA.
You really should report it if people are being mean to you because you are using staff travel. I would not tolerate any of my crew being mean to commuters and I find that crew follow the example set by the Purser or CSD that they are working with.
Some strikers feel very let down by us for working through the strike but it is totally unacceptable for them to be unpleasant to you or anyone on a flight. I recently had another Purser working down on one of my flights and he was obsessed with looking at the PIL. I can only imagine how he would have been if he had been in charge.
Don't tolerate this behavior Miss BA.
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I must have worked in a different company to you for the last 24 years as I most certainly have never heard of any trivial grievances - the like of which you are referring too.
Got home after the trip to find that my 'interruption' merited the CSD "demanding my suspension" with immediate effect. Thankfully the Captain, who witnessed the conversation, knew that if anyone was in the wrong it was the CSD.
Is that trivial enough?
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Miss BA, Yes you are right.
Although I am totally against any of them being mean to those of us that worked, I can't help feeling sorry for some of the more moderate strikers.
They have been led into a completely useless strike, that has lost them their staff travel, lost them some pay, actually made the agreements for all of us worse and unfortunately caused MF to be set up with the worst possible agreement I have ever seen. e.g. 1 weeks notice and stood down from flying duties on NO PAY if BA becomes over crewed!! Thanks Bassa.
So a little bit of me feels very sorry for some of them.
Although I am totally against any of them being mean to those of us that worked, I can't help feeling sorry for some of the more moderate strikers.
They have been led into a completely useless strike, that has lost them their staff travel, lost them some pay, actually made the agreements for all of us worse and unfortunately caused MF to be set up with the worst possible agreement I have ever seen. e.g. 1 weeks notice and stood down from flying duties on NO PAY if BA becomes over crewed!! Thanks Bassa.
So a little bit of me feels very sorry for some of them.