British Airways vs. BASSA (current Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PTC great to have such enthusiasm how ever I have to say I was upset by the tone of your post.. It almost intermates that MF will be the saviour of this dispute.. Belive it or not PCT we do not let the FD starve,
We have conversations with the Captains and FO's even have a laugh with the ones that want a laugh I still go out and socialise with anyone who wants to socialise.
We are all getting on with the situation as best we can (yes a few die hards on both sides make it difficult)...I do wish you the very best in your new role but think you may find it a little more enjoyable if you realise that we all work as a team at the moment and you realy will not be the one who decides if the boys get food or not.
We have conversations with the Captains and FO's even have a laugh with the ones that want a laugh I still go out and socialise with anyone who wants to socialise.
We are all getting on with the situation as best we can (yes a few die hards on both sides make it difficult)...I do wish you the very best in your new role but think you may find it a little more enjoyable if you realise that we all work as a team at the moment and you realy will not be the one who decides if the boys get food or not.
Last edited by dave3; 29th Sep 2010 at 15:15.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Uk
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetset lady, I personally don't think that PTC really has to listen to your advice!.
As you made it very clear that they will not be making any decisions
, teamwork and CRM at its best ..
PTC has decided to go into MF with a fresh approach and not carrying any of the ill feeling seen in SOME of the current crew,
I fail to see how this is a attitude the deserves the comment of "wind your neck in"
.
I look forward to everyones future in BA being positive and all the "playground" spats ending, this can be a great airline
As you made it very clear that they will not be making any decisions
, teamwork and CRM at its best ..PTC has decided to go into MF with a fresh approach and not carrying any of the ill feeling seen in SOME of the current crew,
I fail to see how this is a attitude the deserves the comment of "wind your neck in"
.I look forward to everyones future in BA being positive and all the "playground" spats ending, this can be a great airline
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: uk
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am so sorry I seem to have upset alot of you guys on here, as I already stated, I and alot of others are aware that NOT EVERY CC IS LIKE THIS!!!!!!!! Its very refreshing to hear that you all seem like a good bunch of crew!! I was mearly stating from first hand experience that I have had on several occasions OK!!!!
May I politely suggest that maybe some of you have the blinkers on if you think none of this goes on! I am sure we have all had some experience of this in some form. If you haven't then I really wish I had been working on your flights!!
This is a discussion forum is it not?
I am leaving this point now so happy flying guys!!
Oh and for the record, well done for working through the strike to all who did and supported BA. We may have well worked together as I was there too!
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I Support BA and have lost my staff travel because I went on strike not because I dont support BA but because I took part in legal Industrial action.
I along with other crew members support BA and have done for many many years we are and remain members of a union and continue to be great crew members..
I along with other crew members support BA and have done for many many years we are and remain members of a union and continue to be great crew members..
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Juan Tugoh
I guess those other airlines never night-stopped the crew on different itinerarys or in different hotels. Here at BA we have to make decisions because there are often no pilots to be found; if someone needs to go to hospital, they can't wait for the next flight to bring them in a Captain. Historically half of the problems re the 'them and us' attitude to be found on long-haul can be traced back to the days when the pilots and CC stayed in different hotels, had different transport and the ex-RAF chappies at the front were not exactly approachable. (Moustache and white gloves anyone?)
That being said, here in the wonderful world of BA, the Captain of course has ultimate control if he feels like stepping up to it but many don't; I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl!
So far, the only MF crew I have met have been existing Eurofleet crew or ex-temps who have been flying on long-haul for at least one if not more term of 11 months. I think we can safely say that the culture will be affected by their experiences.
In the other airlines where I have worked the Captain is the one person to manage the crew, they are the ones that ensure that CC are looked after properly on their trip. That does not demean or reduce the role of the senior, it is usually the senior to whom crew would go to first but it is the Captain that would deal with the company in all matters relating to crew, be they cabin or other flight crew.
That being said, here in the wonderful world of BA, the Captain of course has ultimate control if he feels like stepping up to it but many don't; I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl!
The influx of experienced CC from outside offers an opportunity for a new culture to emerge
Last edited by ottergirl; 29th Sep 2010 at 15:43.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sussex,UK
Posts: 469
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetset lady, I personally don't think that PTC really has to listen to your advice!.
As you made it very clear that they will not be making any decisions , teamwork and CRM at its best ..
PTC has decided to go into MF with a fresh approach and not carrying any of the ill feeling seen in SOME of the current crew,
As you made it very clear that they will not be making any decisions , teamwork and CRM at its best ..
PTC has decided to go into MF with a fresh approach and not carrying any of the ill feeling seen in SOME of the current crew,
Flight crew, on my flights you are part of our team and whatever is available or left over I will always offer to you!!
Of late , I have flown with a number of crew who are constantly slagging off flight crew, to my disgust! These folk should really not be here and leave in my opinion!
Giys, guys, please don't get your knickers in a twist!!!
As for Ptc not carrying any hard feeling, it doesn't seem that way to me and most of it seems to be directed towards current crew. We now have 4 CABIN CREW, from across all fleets if Dave3 is from the fleet I think, that have said the same thing. However, our experience obviously counts for nothing. We tried the friendly, gentle warning approach and it appears to have fallen on deaf ears. So be it.
May I politely suggest that maybe some of you have the blinkers on if you think none of this goes on!
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: global
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think ptc needs to apologise. I've recently returned from a trip with a crew who were an absolute bunch of miseries. Festooned with BASSA lanyards, orange 'Union crew' tags and yellow pens, they dutifully tried the usual pitiful games. Sullen faced and miserable, they sulked all the way there and they sulked all the way back, their mood only lifting slightly when the CSD went to bed. No doubt they were infuriated by the two non-striking crew who'd chosen to bring clingons with them as well. Whilst we had a moments respite from trying to operate a commercial flight with a crew behaving like children in the cabin, we mused over the attractions of mixed fleet and the ways in which the company can help speed these unprofessional militants into a more suitable career outside BA. Bring it on I say.
With reference to the money earned by DH I have noticed some misleading statements on this thread.
A little history lesson. Way back in the mists of time TGWU shop stewards working in factories and the like used to collect the members subscription in cash, usually using a old tobacco tin. The Employer would 'take them off the clock' in other words they would not be paid for the time taken to collect the dues.
In order that the shop steward would not lose out financially they would be able to keep a percentage of the money to compensate. This used to be around 15% of the dues.
This was know as Branch Secretaries Honorarium. This system applied to the BASSA Branch Secretary even though the subs were collected by BA by Payroll deduction. BA deducts a sum from this for administration 2.5% ish.
The remainder would be kept by the BS and for many years was not treated as income by the Revenue although I am not sure of the tax position today. A number of years ago the TGWU reduced the % kept by the BS to, I believe 8% so today it could well be 5% as mentioned elsewhere.
When the merger between TGWU and Amicus first came to light BASSA made a big thing about having secured 'assurances' (written in blood no doubt) from TGWU GS Tony Woodley that their 'financial arrangements would remain the same 'no matter what happened to the merger'. You can assume from this that would include the continuation of the BS Commission. BASSA made big play about this in a Newsletter (without mention of BS Commission).
I believe that DH pays a sum of money into the Branch fund but, crucially I believe, not all of it.
No member of BASSA is brave enough to challenge them and ask to see the Branch books and the amount of Honorarium being paid. The Branch Auditors are a couple of well trusted members who, I am led to believe, never make a financial statement to the Branch members at their meetings.
I have heard people refer to the disclosure of money paid into and spent by the union which is required by law. This actually refers to the 'big union' ie Unite today. A notice to members is issued and all monies are detailed in this including GS earnings and Executive Council expenses however the branches are not required to declare this. Two BASSA reps are on the EC and their expenses for that role are declared in the statement. This bears no relationship to their earnings from BASSA as lay reps which is not declared.
The sums claimed from BASSA are quite considerable being in the region of £100 per day for attendance to meetings. The tax position of these monies is also favourable.
A little history lesson. Way back in the mists of time TGWU shop stewards working in factories and the like used to collect the members subscription in cash, usually using a old tobacco tin. The Employer would 'take them off the clock' in other words they would not be paid for the time taken to collect the dues.
In order that the shop steward would not lose out financially they would be able to keep a percentage of the money to compensate. This used to be around 15% of the dues.
This was know as Branch Secretaries Honorarium. This system applied to the BASSA Branch Secretary even though the subs were collected by BA by Payroll deduction. BA deducts a sum from this for administration 2.5% ish.
The remainder would be kept by the BS and for many years was not treated as income by the Revenue although I am not sure of the tax position today. A number of years ago the TGWU reduced the % kept by the BS to, I believe 8% so today it could well be 5% as mentioned elsewhere.
When the merger between TGWU and Amicus first came to light BASSA made a big thing about having secured 'assurances' (written in blood no doubt) from TGWU GS Tony Woodley that their 'financial arrangements would remain the same 'no matter what happened to the merger'. You can assume from this that would include the continuation of the BS Commission. BASSA made big play about this in a Newsletter (without mention of BS Commission).
I believe that DH pays a sum of money into the Branch fund but, crucially I believe, not all of it.
No member of BASSA is brave enough to challenge them and ask to see the Branch books and the amount of Honorarium being paid. The Branch Auditors are a couple of well trusted members who, I am led to believe, never make a financial statement to the Branch members at their meetings.
I have heard people refer to the disclosure of money paid into and spent by the union which is required by law. This actually refers to the 'big union' ie Unite today. A notice to members is issued and all monies are detailed in this including GS earnings and Executive Council expenses however the branches are not required to declare this. Two BASSA reps are on the EC and their expenses for that role are declared in the statement. This bears no relationship to their earnings from BASSA as lay reps which is not declared.
The sums claimed from BASSA are quite considerable being in the region of £100 per day for attendance to meetings. The tax position of these monies is also favourable.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA members are aware that reps get paid allowances. just as reps fromany other union does... no shock there. I personaly think they should be paid more with the job they have on at the moment.
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: M3 usually!
Posts: 491
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sullen faced and miserable, they sulked all the way there and they sulked all the way back, their mood only lifting slightly when the CSD went to bed.
Hopefully you had a little word in the CSD's ear to brighten their day.
I don't think ptc needs to apologise
Last edited by ottergirl; 29th Sep 2010 at 17:00.
Join Date: May 2010
Location: London
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ptc
Just been catching up on this thread. I felt your comments were unfair. I'm sorry that you have not had a more positive experience whilst flying with "us". My Mother always told me never to try and make myself look good by putting someone else down. I have tried to never forget that advice.
I will always consider you and all of the other crew coming onto MF to be colleagues and will always treat you with the same respect that I treat all colleagues with. Good luck!
Just been catching up on this thread. I felt your comments were unfair. I'm sorry that you have not had a more positive experience whilst flying with "us". My Mother always told me never to try and make myself look good by putting someone else down. I have tried to never forget that advice.
I will always consider you and all of the other crew coming onto MF to be colleagues and will always treat you with the same respect that I treat all colleagues with. Good luck!
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Swindon
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thankyou for the replies with regard to the Branch Secretary and funds.
I'm sure all is above board. Therefore are the finances of BASSA as a branch of Unite available as public record?
Still no response on what was said or written to David G*** which I'm told caused a police interview.
I'm sure all is above board. Therefore are the finances of BASSA as a branch of Unite available as public record?
Still no response on what was said or written to David G*** which I'm told caused a police interview.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Swindon
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave
Wouldn't the loyal members of BASSA want to know?
I would if a senior member of my union was asked such questions.
I'm told there are some intelligent, dilligent, avid posters on the BASSA forum who also come on here.
Why doesn't one of them (is one a lawyer?) ask these important and searching questions or is it too risky?
Is the mantra of that forum merely to write what people want (or need) to hear as some sort of support mechanism?
Wouldn't the loyal members of BASSA want to know?
I would if a senior member of my union was asked such questions.
I'm told there are some intelligent, dilligent, avid posters on the BASSA forum who also come on here.
Why doesn't one of them (is one a lawyer?) ask these important and searching questions or is it too risky?
Is the mantra of that forum merely to write what people want (or need) to hear as some sort of support mechanism?
Join Date: May 2010
Location: london
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ivor I dont know what it would achieve. The same could be asked of many problems that have resulted in sackings and suspensions on both sides during all of this.. remember all that were involved in the facebook problems from both sides.. what good would it do to wash more of our laundry on a public forum.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Swindon
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dave
Point taken but if I was he and there were widespread rumours of the money and also stuff to said CSD for my credibility I'd want it out in the open.
Unless I had something to hide.
I suppose many BASSA activists would not care about either issue but I think one's credibility is important especially with a high stakes game such as this.
DH's credibility unfortunately took a dive in many people's eyes when details were released in court over BASSA's behaviour and also from the what seems mindless rantings and half truths by newsletter, particularly the "the pilots have told WW that if he gives staff travel back they will withdraw their support", which I am told by the best sources possible is complete and utter nonsense.
Without that credibility outside of BASSA it is frankly a disaster to any cause you may believe strongly in.
Point taken but if I was he and there were widespread rumours of the money and also stuff to said CSD for my credibility I'd want it out in the open.
Unless I had something to hide.
I suppose many BASSA activists would not care about either issue but I think one's credibility is important especially with a high stakes game such as this.
DH's credibility unfortunately took a dive in many people's eyes when details were released in court over BASSA's behaviour and also from the what seems mindless rantings and half truths by newsletter, particularly the "the pilots have told WW that if he gives staff travel back they will withdraw their support", which I am told by the best sources possible is complete and utter nonsense.
Without that credibility outside of BASSA it is frankly a disaster to any cause you may believe strongly in.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Oxford
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
123 breath
I believe they were the ones who elected them. it seems to make sense that union reps should also have experience of the company and those who have risen through the ranks are naturally more confident in this area.
As for DH's remuneration from the union, I believe this is still standard practice in all of our unions for those whose responsibilities will often mean them being derostered and therefore not fully paid. I don't have any problem with my union reps being paid in this way and don't see why we should worry how Unite remunerates its officers. There are far more important issues to worry about like how we are going to get out of this them and us mess.
Why do main crew put up with this situation.......being represented by non-representitive senior crew
As for DH's remuneration from the union, I believe this is still standard practice in all of our unions for those whose responsibilities will often mean them being derostered and therefore not fully paid. I don't have any problem with my union reps being paid in this way and don't see why we should worry how Unite remunerates its officers. There are far more important issues to worry about like how we are going to get out of this them and us mess.