British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Bedfont Lemmings
You may not be flight crew, but there's a good chance that you are. And many other flight crew members have posted on this thread.
It's worrying to see how lacking a minority of these people are in maturity when it comes to trying to discuss this important issue.
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HF - go there for yourself and see just how many crew turn up rather than guess. On my last visit, with the several picket points fully manned, 300+ on coaches to TUC HQ, the place was still packed inside and out, and with a constant turnover of crew all day I stand by my calculations.
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Quote:
Bedfont Lemmings
No need for that.
You may not be flight crew, but there's a good chance that you are. And many other flight crew members have posted on this thread.
It's worrying to see how lacking a minority of these people are in maturity when it comes to trying to discuss this important issue.
Bedfont Lemmings
No need for that.
You may not be flight crew, but there's a good chance that you are. And many other flight crew members have posted on this thread.
It's worrying to see how lacking a minority of these people are in maturity when it comes to trying to discuss this important issue.
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Originally Posted by davecr
Remember, once a strike is called only BASSA (not Unite) can call it off. As the BASSA reps have made it clear that they prefer an "all-out" indefinite strike, this can't be an easy decision for him to make.
My Father works in Waterside, and the word on the 'street' is that originally it was assumed that once Unites permission for Bassa to strike had been given this would stand for the entire period of IA, but now it is thought that Bassa actually require Unite's permission for each individual set of dates they announce, so the reality is Bassa's hands are probably tied.
[/RUMOUR]
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These people will always be able to hold their heads up high and be proud, unlike some of my CC and FC colleagues.
Those who went to work definitely know why they have done it, and as worthy and it may sound to fight for one's ideals and be bonded by the brotherhood of values, at the end of the day any fighter should be aware of why they are fighting.
I don't believe war is justified by the end result, but for someone that wants to protect a lifestyle that allows them to live in the sun and commute to work, I guess it does. I hope they are aware and clear of why they are doing it.
It would be extremely unfair and painful for those involved if they found out that this war (like many other wars, really) was unjustified.
I get really uncomfortable with any extremism because for me it shows no willingness to resolve an issue.
I am amazed people are prepared to go to the length of publicly denigrating a person for a work issue, important ok, but surely not to the extent of loosing one's dignity as a human being!
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Passing Comment
As someone who views this site maybe once day I have observed that in the last few days the fight if that is the correct word seems to have gone out of some of you!
Certainly those that purport to be strikers seem to be few in number on here now, worse still those that are, are back to arguing with FC again.
Is my observation correct, with the merger now signed I would hazard that WW will leave you to sink without trace.
Some one metioned 'war' well at WTS that is how most of the staff see your actions and be in no doubt that most fully support WW, as do the T5 staff. I have met very few that actually have symoathy for CC.
Where is this going now?
Certainly those that purport to be strikers seem to be few in number on here now, worse still those that are, are back to arguing with FC again.
Is my observation correct, with the merger now signed I would hazard that WW will leave you to sink without trace.
Some one metioned 'war' well at WTS that is how most of the staff see your actions and be in no doubt that most fully support WW, as do the T5 staff. I have met very few that actually have symoathy for CC.
Where is this going now?
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Re Bedfont
Its a little kept secret that UNITE pressured every branch in and around the airport, in all trades to get their members down to Bedfont football club to show "support" for their cabin crew collegues, when this "support" was lukewarm, the free Tea and Biscuits not being a big enough carrot, all UNITE office staff, and anyone else for that matter were told to get down there (Bedfont) to improved the numbers for the cameras.
The mood within UNITEs HQ is reported to be very fraught, the strikes have been deemed a failure at the very highest level.
The mood within UNITEs HQ is reported to be very fraught, the strikes have been deemed a failure at the very highest level.
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Absolutely agree. Mr Walsh does not make the law. If you are sick, you are sick.
However, the law never seems to be as clear as it might be.
For instance, BA will know (since they collect data on almost everything) how many cabin crew, on average, go sick on any particular day. Say, for day 1 of the strike the number was 50. Suppose that, on day 1 of the strike 700 people went sick. 700 when normally there are 50.
BA might then be able to argue, in court, that this represents unofficial industrial action - clearly these people can not all be sick as look - we have data going back X years to show an average of 50 people go sick, it's never more than - say - 65, never fewer than - say -40. Not only might you be considered on strike but you might not have the legal protections of the legal ballot - because BA are saying your actions are unofficial.
Your lawyer will presumably argue "look my client has a doctor's note saying he had blocked ears" or whatever.
Who knows which way a judge will go. Would you be willing to take the chance? I don't think it's as clear as people might think.
What would you say if, despite your doctor's note, the judge said "look BA weren't asking you to fly - they made that clear - they were asking you to report at CRC - they are two different things and blocked ears don't prevent you getting in a car and driving in. Therefore, given that you acted unreasonably once I am willing to take BA's interpretation of events and assume you have acted unreasonably twice."
BA can then dismiss you for breach of contract. Oops.
the lunatic fringe
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Where is this going now?
Possible scenarios:
BASSA call an all out strike. Go Nuclear as it has been called. I cannot see this working, as more and more CC will drift back to work, and the extremists will be left on the grass verge. BA get everything the want, and rid of the lunatic fringe.
BASSA call another series of strikes: Same as above, but more drawn out. Not so good for BA, but still a BA win.
BASSA try to negotiate a solution. WW has them over a barrel, because of the above. BA win.
I just cannot see a way out for BASSA that allows them either a win, or a face saving negotiated settlement. Unless WW allows them that face saving way out. That on evidence seems unlikely.
All in all, WW has BASSA painted into a corner.
All the rhetoric and tub thumping in the world will not change that fact. It is just so sad that so many good people have been drawn into this mess.
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The highlight for me so far has been the only non Spanish crew member at a M25 picket, all of whom were on strike, all of whom commute from Spain and the Canaries
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With regards to people being able to hold their heads high, I suggest that's anybody that took a positive decision: either to go on strike or to go to work.
- whatever side of the fence someone sits on, every decision made was a difficult one and one that the individual taking it can be proud of (with a few exceptions, I have to say).
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Originally Posted by 28L
Fact: When I operated a flight during the strike period, one of the Canaries cabin crew had been on the picket line the previous day.
MODS : seeking clarification - please do not remove (again), please.....
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Eddy, my take on it is that the individual could be on a picket line one day and working the next.That person could have chosen to go on the picket line on a day off. By that action they would in their mind be supporting the strike yet avoiding the repercussions.
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You mean someone who had been "on strike" one day went in to work the next?
Eddy, I would guess you will find your clarification on there.
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Golden Ticket, if that's the case, those people should be ashamed.
I've just spoken by PM with a chap and I'll repeat here what I said to him.
I've just spoken by PM with a chap and I'll repeat here what I said to him.
Originally Posted by Eddy by Private Message
I can quite believe that someone would go on the picket line one day and work the next. But I'm afraid I disagree with you that it's not worth getting het up about.
THESE are likely the very people who will be MOST vicious towards those who worked without going on the picket line. They'll see their spell at Bedfont as their right to preach the anti-BA line and have a go at those who worked, even though they did, too.
They'll VERY much be hoping that they'll be remembered as being on the picket line but will be forgotten as having been at work. People are more likely to say "Oh yeah, Jose, he went on strike" because people seem to think it's worth rejoicing about. While few people will "out" someone else as having worked.
THESE are likely the very people who will be MOST vicious towards those who worked without going on the picket line. They'll see their spell at Bedfont as their right to preach the anti-BA line and have a go at those who worked, even though they did, too.
They'll VERY much be hoping that they'll be remembered as being on the picket line but will be forgotten as having been at work. People are more likely to say "Oh yeah, Jose, he went on strike" because people seem to think it's worth rejoicing about. While few people will "out" someone else as having worked.
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Eddy
You mean someone who had been "on strike" one day went in to work the next?
Edited to say that she certainly wasn't the type of person to bully & harrass. But if she lost her staff travel she (as a commuter from the Canaries - actually Portugal) wouldn't be able to do her job.
I'm not making any judgements on the morality of what she did. Just pointing out the human side of all this.
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28L, thanks mate. I get that there's a "human cost" to all this but I'd be keen to know what makes this person better than the other commuters who went on ACTUAL strike in spite of the fact that they'd lose their staff travel.
Plenty of commuters have taken the difficult decision to withdraw their labour and have lost staff travel as a result.
What makes this woman think she's above having to make the sacrifice if she believes strongly enough that a strike is the right thing to do that she will go to Bedfont on a day off?
This strike changes nothign for me; I respected most of my colleagues before the strike and I will continute to respect most of my colleagues after the strike - but the actions of some are certainly questionable.
Plenty of commuters have taken the difficult decision to withdraw their labour and have lost staff travel as a result.
What makes this woman think she's above having to make the sacrifice if she believes strongly enough that a strike is the right thing to do that she will go to Bedfont on a day off?
This strike changes nothign for me; I respected most of my colleagues before the strike and I will continute to respect most of my colleagues after the strike - but the actions of some are certainly questionable.
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Another scenario, L337?
BASSA call an all out strike. Go Nuclear as it has been called. I cannot see this working, as more and more CC will drift back to work, and the extremists will be left on the grass verge. BA get everything the want, and rid of the lunatic fringe.
BASSA call another series of strikes: Same as above, but more drawn out. Not so good for BA, but still a BA win.
BASSA try to negotiate a solution. WW has them over a barrel, because of the above. BA win.
I just cannot see a way out for BASSA that allows them either a win, or a face saving negotiated settlement. Unless WW allows them that face saving way out. That on evidence seems unlikely.
BASSA call another series of strikes: Same as above, but more drawn out. Not so good for BA, but still a BA win.
BASSA try to negotiate a solution. WW has them over a barrel, because of the above. BA win.
I just cannot see a way out for BASSA that allows them either a win, or a face saving negotiated settlement. Unless WW allows them that face saving way out. That on evidence seems unlikely.
I really need Lightbulbs to answer this won.
Is there a chance they could become an independent union??
Controversial, moi?
The latest from BASSA
CLARITY ON UNITE/BASSA POSITIONApr 8th, 2010 by admin
I posted this on the forum this morning but in case you missed it -
Just to clarify a few things.
Any "deal" that TW may think he has secured from BA will be put to a full postal ballot of you the membership. YOU have the final say.
TW held informal talks with BA that only got off the ground on Good Friday - they were conducted by telephone. He knew we had arranged to meet him on Wednesday and I am quite relaxed that he waited until all reps were at Holborn before briefing us all together. Like the UNITE press release said there are still substantial obstacles.
Tony Woodley then asked us (not told us) if he could have some more time before announcing dates.
Things are delicately balanced and to have announced - what might have to be announced next week ie a lengthy strike - would dash ANY hope of reconciliation. It was a fair request.
As the strike has already been validated and we are no longer having to go out within the previous 28 day time frame so the reps were prepared to give TW the courtesy of a little time.
Whether or not we like or fully trust UNITE is not really the issue right now - the time for Spanish Inquisitions is not during a dispute. UNITE are the only game in town, they hold the key to the safe (yes I know it is your money in that safe) and as such it is wise that a good relationship is maintained. TW and I have had our share of differences but I am putting that behind me while we have bigger battles to fight and I know he feels the same way. At the end of the talks - he may think we have a good deal, we may not but you will be the ultimate. judge.
To use words like "disgust" on the forum in reaction to yesterday’s announcement is inappropriate and unhelpful during these tense times. I don’t think your BASSA reps have let you down so far; right from the first day WE exposed Columbus to you all, we have been consistent and delivered industrial action very much against the odds (the media, the governemt and the judiciary are all formidable opponents), so please bear with us. We are in the same boat as you after all, the only difference being we shoulder more accountability.
Thank you for reading this far - sincerely hope you can take some of what I say onboard. There is much water to flow under the bridge let’s not waste too much water trying to unnecessarily swim upstream just yet. (By now you will have gathered I like a metaphor or two).
Regards
Duncan
I posted this on the forum this morning but in case you missed it -
Just to clarify a few things.
Any "deal" that TW may think he has secured from BA will be put to a full postal ballot of you the membership. YOU have the final say.
TW held informal talks with BA that only got off the ground on Good Friday - they were conducted by telephone. He knew we had arranged to meet him on Wednesday and I am quite relaxed that he waited until all reps were at Holborn before briefing us all together. Like the UNITE press release said there are still substantial obstacles.
Tony Woodley then asked us (not told us) if he could have some more time before announcing dates.
Things are delicately balanced and to have announced - what might have to be announced next week ie a lengthy strike - would dash ANY hope of reconciliation. It was a fair request.
As the strike has already been validated and we are no longer having to go out within the previous 28 day time frame so the reps were prepared to give TW the courtesy of a little time.
Whether or not we like or fully trust UNITE is not really the issue right now - the time for Spanish Inquisitions is not during a dispute. UNITE are the only game in town, they hold the key to the safe (yes I know it is your money in that safe) and as such it is wise that a good relationship is maintained. TW and I have had our share of differences but I am putting that behind me while we have bigger battles to fight and I know he feels the same way. At the end of the talks - he may think we have a good deal, we may not but you will be the ultimate. judge.
To use words like "disgust" on the forum in reaction to yesterday’s announcement is inappropriate and unhelpful during these tense times. I don’t think your BASSA reps have let you down so far; right from the first day WE exposed Columbus to you all, we have been consistent and delivered industrial action very much against the odds (the media, the governemt and the judiciary are all formidable opponents), so please bear with us. We are in the same boat as you after all, the only difference being we shoulder more accountability.
Thank you for reading this far - sincerely hope you can take some of what I say onboard. There is much water to flow under the bridge let’s not waste too much water trying to unnecessarily swim upstream just yet. (By now you will have gathered I like a metaphor or two).
Regards
Duncan