British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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Is it just me? The way I read this is that bullying may have driven junior crew to work - so they admit that it's been going on, but its not acceptable for more senior crew who have been subjected to bullying to report? 
Furthermore, I for one, have never received any help from Bassa when I've needed it so bye bye. Resignation has gone in now so I won't benefit from this caring union anymore.
Furthermore, I for one, have never received any help from Bassa when I've needed it so bye bye. Resignation has gone in now so I won't benefit from this caring union anymore.
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The way I read this is that bullying may have driven junior crew to work
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Quote from BASSA "Turning to the issue of strike breakers we would like to fully endorse the views of Duncan, our branch secretary. Whilst we accept that bullying and intimidation forced some of our newer crew into work, that is not an excuse for our senior crew."
There's also no excuse for the bullying and harrassment of non-union CC by BASSA CC as happened outside T5 by the staff bus stop. No wonder they had their BA passes confiscated and were suspended.
There's also no excuse for the bullying and harrassment of non-union CC by BASSA CC as happened outside T5 by the staff bus stop. No wonder they had their BA passes confiscated and were suspended.
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OK. I did read it the wrong way. Naturally Bassa are compeltely innocent of any bullying and its BA that have bullied the crew into going to work. That being the case, BA are not very good at bullying as it seems most crew have been reporting. What happend outside the T5 bus stop then?
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I'm not sure what their gripe is with regards to the pay deduction calculations for part time staff who went on strike. These crew are not available for work 365 days a year so why should their basic pay per day be calculated based on 365 days work per year? The lawyers can look at it as much as they like but they are not going to win that one!
With regards to the forward looking unions who work with the company rather than against it - you seem to be describing BALPA.
Good luck to all.
GS
With regards to the forward looking unions who work with the company rather than against it - you seem to be describing BALPA.
Good luck to all.
GS
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the offer
Going back to the "offer on the table", the 184 crew BA have included in the deal is in my opinion the long awaited the start of new fleet.
BA have stated that they would deploy these 184 as they see fit, and any new hires to make up crew compliments would be hired on new fleet terms. This does not leave me with any question of new fleet starting, Im also told there are already 160+ crew back in the company as temps, I would not be at all suprised to see these temps made permanent as the new long range B777's
arrive and new fleet flies these 777's on the big box trips.
The very thing Bassa said 2yrs ago would never happen when "columbus" was announced. Sadly I see 2 years of Bassa's negative negotiations now coming back to bite them in the backside. BA now have new fleet, old contracts reduced, old contract expensive crew VR'd and Bassa's reputation and following severly damaged.
Game, set and match BA !!
BA have stated that they would deploy these 184 as they see fit, and any new hires to make up crew compliments would be hired on new fleet terms. This does not leave me with any question of new fleet starting, Im also told there are already 160+ crew back in the company as temps, I would not be at all suprised to see these temps made permanent as the new long range B777's
arrive and new fleet flies these 777's on the big box trips.
The very thing Bassa said 2yrs ago would never happen when "columbus" was announced. Sadly I see 2 years of Bassa's negative negotiations now coming back to bite them in the backside. BA now have new fleet, old contracts reduced, old contract expensive crew VR'd and Bassa's reputation and following severly damaged.
Game, set and match BA !!
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From the BASSA missive
This coming from a group of people who consider themselves professionals.
The funny thing is, if they destroy CRM it is their own lives on the line!
The saddest thing is in all of this when Mr. Walsh
and Mr. Francis move on they will have left a legacy of destroyed CRM.
and Mr. Francis move on they will have left a legacy of destroyed CRM.
The funny thing is, if they destroy CRM it is their own lives on the line!
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fly12345
That has been my experience too, our colleagues certainly seemed they wanted to be there.
The atmosphere was very positive.
(My experience of recent strikes, not representative of my company or any other party).
The atmosphere was very positive.
(My experience of recent strikes, not representative of my company or any other party).
Last edited by Clarified; 3rd Apr 2010 at 21:02. Reason: I forgot the '5'
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How the union has the audacity to use the phrase "Honest Bill" is absolutely laughable.
They have done nothing but tell big fat lies throughout most of this dispute and everybody knows it, so to question anothers honesty is rather ironic.
I just feel sorry for the poor sods who keep swallowing it
They have done nothing but tell big fat lies throughout most of this dispute and everybody knows it, so to question anothers honesty is rather ironic.
I just feel sorry for the poor sods who keep swallowing it
fly1245
Sad thing is reports are starting to appear elsewhere that the old problems with CRM are resurfacing now that just about everybody's back at work...
As you say, the attitude during "strike trips" was refreshing...even got around to discussing this very forum with one or two of our excellent Cabin Crew........
IMHO a lot of people showed a lot of bravery in turning up for work recently, i.e. the non-striking Cabin Crew and the volunteers from various departments who stuck their necks out and worked "down the back". Now is the time for IFCE management and Flight Ops management to show a similar level of bravery, rather than hiding behind the legalise of EG xyz. Frankly they should be brave enough to push the limits of any disciplinaries right to the edge of what is acceptable, rather than settling for any cuddly feely middle ground. If management don't do this and we are stuck with weeks/months of working with a bunch of bullying malcontents then everyone at BA is stuffed.
As you say, the attitude during "strike trips" was refreshing...even got around to discussing this very forum with one or two of our excellent Cabin Crew........
IMHO a lot of people showed a lot of bravery in turning up for work recently, i.e. the non-striking Cabin Crew and the volunteers from various departments who stuck their necks out and worked "down the back". Now is the time for IFCE management and Flight Ops management to show a similar level of bravery, rather than hiding behind the legalise of EG xyz. Frankly they should be brave enough to push the limits of any disciplinaries right to the edge of what is acceptable, rather than settling for any cuddly feely middle ground. If management don't do this and we are stuck with weeks/months of working with a bunch of bullying malcontents then everyone at BA is stuffed.
Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Apr 2010 at 19:25. Reason: My 2 posts combined due another post being deleted.
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I don't think a pound or so, is that deep, nice spin though.
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I hope that you have informed your rep and written to Mr Simpson to express your views.
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Lightbulbs..
I would suggest that the reason for this is the last 13 years we have had a labour Government that has passed employment law acts that, although not completely in favour of the employee, at least consider a balanced position.
This may sound simplistic but it is very important in how people respond/handle change.
The world is a capitilist, global business place. In the 13 years you refer to everything has become weaved into this system.
Whether we agree or not that is how things work, so we have to change and embrace it.
Look at the countless businesses that have gone under because they didn't adapt, unions are in danger of, or have done exactly the same.
Thankfully there are many examples of business that did embrace change, they and their employees are thriving, although the last few years have been tough.
As I said before, unions that represent workers have to adapt and change with the world. In my view, a proactive approach eg. holding hands and trusting eachother is the way forward. That means engaging eachother and realising that a union only functions if the company does. You can't have the former if the latter doesn't exist.
The year 2010, demands a 2010 approach.
Last edited by Clarified; 3rd Apr 2010 at 22:59.
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Quote by Get Smart:
What happend outside the T5 bus stop then?
Returning crew last Saturday, were waiting by the bus stop and when the bus arrived, crew in civvies got off and were harassed and shouted at by the waiting cc. It got rather heated and managers stepped in and took the offenders to one side and confiscated their passes. I understand but cannot confirm that they have been suspended.
What happend outside the T5 bus stop then?
Returning crew last Saturday, were waiting by the bus stop and when the bus arrived, crew in civvies got off and were harassed and shouted at by the waiting cc. It got rather heated and managers stepped in and took the offenders to one side and confiscated their passes. I understand but cannot confirm that they have been suspended.
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Clarified
I cannot question your comments on the changing the way you deal with labour relations. My comments were based on your view of declining union membership. The big industrial centres are no more, but to leave industrial relations in the hands of business would be very trusting indeed.
As an employee, you will always be a cost.
As an employee, you will always be a cost.
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I also think the world has changed but not for the better!
In the old days company's could offer employment to give a large group a reasonable living , nowadays everything needs to be lean and mean to give less people minimum wages and a very few top salarys.
And to make things worse the unions are barking up the wrong three!!!!!!!
While the unions are trying to preserve conditions at our company(BA) they and Labour let our compatitors in peace and this is where the problem lies!
It's simple to me if I'm selling tomato's at a pound for the kilo and someone comes along and sells them for 50 cents the kilo there's two options.
I have to lower my price and costs or I should stop selling tomato's!!!!!
I could only hope that a union would prove unfair compatition from my neighbour who's selling for 50 cents!
In the old days company's could offer employment to give a large group a reasonable living , nowadays everything needs to be lean and mean to give less people minimum wages and a very few top salarys.
And to make things worse the unions are barking up the wrong three!!!!!!!
While the unions are trying to preserve conditions at our company(BA) they and Labour let our compatitors in peace and this is where the problem lies!
It's simple to me if I'm selling tomato's at a pound for the kilo and someone comes along and sells them for 50 cents the kilo there's two options.
I have to lower my price and costs or I should stop selling tomato's!!!!!
I could only hope that a union would prove unfair compatition from my neighbour who's selling for 50 cents!