British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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due to the MAJORITY of rostered cabin crew turning up, and the same occurred on my flights as pilot. Also it wasn't possible for someone to be turning up at the CRC just to support the non-strikers. Only rostered crew were allowed in the CRC.Contrast that with:
At Bedfont, anyone could turn up. Cabin crew, baggage handlers, Unite admin staff, family, etc . Also at Bedfont, there were non-strikers trying to show they were really supportive, by standing on picket lines on their days off, and then at work the next day when they were rostered to work (it happened!).
I'm sure it was a jolly party at the small football club, but it was just as popular, and jolly, at work!
And yes, ever since Bassa told us that only 236 people had volunteered, pilots had failed the course, they got £500 to pass the course, only 5 people then 26 people crossed the picket lines, we get £166/hour to operate as cabin crew, pilots are flying circuits to make it look like lots of movements are going ahead, I have not believed a word Bassa say.
BA on the other hand, have been truthful regarding every issue I have any direct knowledge of.
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Now, in the cold light of day review the ACTUAL offers BA and BASSA discussed and please remember that at NO time were the scare tactics of £11k and all the other fictions ever formally proposed. And do you as a BASSA member know what they proposed for you to accept without consulting you?
If you'd be on the planes full of grateful passengers looked after by motivated and professional REAL cabin crew looking down on BFC (physically and metaphorically) you might have a different opinion too.
Are you saying that striking crew are not motivated and professional?
BTW we saw no healthy eating options at BFC, maybe next time you should get some baked potatoes in too, wouldn't want you getting spots on the picket line!
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I was at the CRC for several days during the strikes and personally saw the numbers reporting for several flights, including my own as both pilot and as cabin crew. I was never needed as cabin crew due to the MAJORITY of rostered cabin crew turning up, and the same occurred on my flights as pilot. Also it wasn't possible for someone to be turning up at the CRC just to support the non-strikers. Only rostered crew were allowed in the CRC.
there were non-strikers trying to show they were really supportive, by standing on picket lines on their days off, and then at work the next day when they were rostered to work (it happened!).
And yes, ever since Bassa told us that only 236 people had volunteered, pilots had failed the course, they got £500 to pass the course, only 5 people then 26 people crossed the picket lines, we get £166/hour to operate as cabin crew, pilots are flying circuits to make it look like lots of movements are going ahead, I have not believed a word Bassa say.
BA on the other hand, have been truthful regarding every issue I have any direct knowledge of.
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MissM. You are entitled to your opinion. But as ground staff myself and like many other ground staff at LHR, we are so pleased that many of your colleagues turned up to work and also there have been and still are so many volunteers out there who want to keep BA flying should you strike again. Had the 12 days strike at at christmas gone ahead it could have brought the company down.
From a personal perspective. I have worked 30 + years in the airline and striking CC have threatened my pension and final few years of work. So your opinion doesn't really matter to me or many people at BA. We think CC are looked after pretty well and most ramp staff have seen the offer that was on the table for you, we would bite WW's arm of for that !!
As to you statment that not many BA aircraft were flying. There were plenty, as many as BA stated, we loaded them. I do hope that CC issues are sorted out in the very near future for all the staff at BA including the CC guys and girls that came into work.
PS I am glad to hear that you will remain professional and hope that you and all you striking colleagues will be professional and respect CC crew who didn't wish to strike.
PPS, Could you kindly advise the reason why you where on strike, coz I just don't get it. Rgds EB.
From a personal perspective. I have worked 30 + years in the airline and striking CC have threatened my pension and final few years of work. So your opinion doesn't really matter to me or many people at BA. We think CC are looked after pretty well and most ramp staff have seen the offer that was on the table for you, we would bite WW's arm of for that !!
As to you statment that not many BA aircraft were flying. There were plenty, as many as BA stated, we loaded them. I do hope that CC issues are sorted out in the very near future for all the staff at BA including the CC guys and girls that came into work.
PS I am glad to hear that you will remain professional and hope that you and all you striking colleagues will be professional and respect CC crew who didn't wish to strike.
PPS, Could you kindly advise the reason why you where on strike, coz I just don't get it. Rgds EB.
Last edited by earleyboy; 11th Apr 2010 at 19:45.
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Miss M
MissM
If you were at Hatton Cross on a strike day, and you didnt see many flights departing, then that is no surprise. Flights took off on every strike day a long way away from Hatton Cross. The only flights you can see from there are incoming, and there were plenty of those..........
If you were at Hatton Cross on a strike day, and you didnt see many flights departing, then that is no surprise. Flights took off on every strike day a long way away from Hatton Cross. The only flights you can see from there are incoming, and there were plenty of those..........
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MissM,
Do you know how many flights BA normally operate, so are able to assess whether there are less than normal flights departing from your Hatton Point vantage point? T5 might have been quieter than normal - it was - but wasn't that due to passengers knowing there was a strike so taking up BA's offer of a full refund and/or rebook? WW was far more interested in how many cabin crew were in T5.
And as you now state the numbers at Bedfont don't relate to the numbers turning up for work, would you reconsider your comment that I if I'd been there I would have thought differently about how many people were striking?
As I've mentioned already, and as many others have stated, the majority turned up! That's what counts in a strike. That's why TW is holding off with the strike dates, he knows it's Unite staring a defeat in the face if the strike goes ahead.
And no, I don't believe BA's figures just because they are a PLC, (the traffic statistics published to the city reflected the overall 67%ish working cabin crew), but I know of some figures directly, without needing BA's stats. And they match.
I also know what Bassa put out and know them to be false (not because BA told me, but because I saw raw data numbers on the day).
It's easy to discount Bassa figures when, as we did, we were on a jumbo with FULL cabin crew complement (14), no volunteers, and the Bassa members at destination get a txt saying that only 5 have crossed the picket line. They PA'd the text to us all once all pax were off. And how we laughed.
Do you know how many flights BA normally operate, so are able to assess whether there are less than normal flights departing from your Hatton Point vantage point? T5 might have been quieter than normal - it was - but wasn't that due to passengers knowing there was a strike so taking up BA's offer of a full refund and/or rebook? WW was far more interested in how many cabin crew were in T5.
And as you now state the numbers at Bedfont don't relate to the numbers turning up for work, would you reconsider your comment that I if I'd been there I would have thought differently about how many people were striking?
As I've mentioned already, and as many others have stated, the majority turned up! That's what counts in a strike. That's why TW is holding off with the strike dates, he knows it's Unite staring a defeat in the face if the strike goes ahead.
And no, I don't believe BA's figures just because they are a PLC, (the traffic statistics published to the city reflected the overall 67%ish working cabin crew), but I know of some figures directly, without needing BA's stats. And they match.
I also know what Bassa put out and know them to be false (not because BA told me, but because I saw raw data numbers on the day).
It's easy to discount Bassa figures when, as we did, we were on a jumbo with FULL cabin crew complement (14), no volunteers, and the Bassa members at destination get a txt saying that only 5 have crossed the picket line. They PA'd the text to us all once all pax were off. And how we laughed.
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The sooner ALL cabin crew(not just the Bassa brigade) get to vote on this offer the better.
A resounding yes vote will be returned.That will put this to bed and we can all get on with rebuilding our reputation.
A resounding yes vote will be returned.That will put this to bed and we can all get on with rebuilding our reputation.
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Midman,
There were hundreds of cancellations over the 7 days of action. The most conservative estimate of cost, was around £40 million pounds.
The BA management team pulled out all the stops, to minimise the disruption.
I believe both parties are talking.
There were hundreds of cancellations over the 7 days of action. The most conservative estimate of cost, was around £40 million pounds.
The BA management team pulled out all the stops, to minimise the disruption.
I believe both parties are talking.
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If you were at Hatton Cross on a strike day, and you didnt see many flights departing, then that is no surprise. Flights took off on every strike day a long way away from Hatton Cross. The only flights you can see from there are incoming, and there were plenty of those..........
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PPS, Could you kindly advise the reason why you where on strike, coz I just don't get it. Rgds EB.
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Miss M
MissM
Its quite simple. You cant see aircraft taking off from Hatton Cross. You can only see the incoming flights. Every strike day, flights were incoming westbound, not taking off eastbound. You could not see or tell how many BA flights were taking off from that sad little piece of turf that was used as a picket line. I'm sorry but what you said is truly nonsense!
Its quite simple. You cant see aircraft taking off from Hatton Cross. You can only see the incoming flights. Every strike day, flights were incoming westbound, not taking off eastbound. You could not see or tell how many BA flights were taking off from that sad little piece of turf that was used as a picket line. I'm sorry but what you said is truly nonsense!
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Which came first: BA's imposition or BASSAs refusal to negotiate, confirmed by a show of hands at the union rally?
Did you really think you could refuse to negotiate, stonewall BA for years and avoid change? Or offer 'savings' far smaller than BA sought and think they'd just accept them?
Did you really think you could refuse to negotiate, stonewall BA for years and avoid change? Or offer 'savings' far smaller than BA sought and think they'd just accept them?
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Do you know how many flights BA normally operate, so are able to assess whether there are less than normal flights departing from your Hatton Point vantage point? T5 might have been quieter than normal - it was - but wasn't that due to passengers knowing there was a strike so taking up BA's offer of a full refund and/or rebook? WW was far more interested in how many cabin crew were in T5.
And as you now state the numbers at Bedfont don't relate to the numbers turning up for work, would you reconsider your comment that I if I'd been there I would have thought differently about how many people were striking?
[QUOTE]And no, I don't believe BA's figures just because they are a PLC, (the traffic statistics published to the city reflected the overall 67%ish working cabin crew), but I know of some figures directly, without needing BA's stats. And they match. I also know what Bassa put out and know them to be false (not because BA told me, but because I saw raw data numbers on the day).[QUOTE]
Unfortunately it means nothing that you saw raw data numbers on the day because that could be something you have made up, couldn't it?
It's easy to discount Bassa figures when, as we did, we were on a jumbo with FULL cabin crew complement (14), no volunteers, and the Bassa members at destination get a txt saying that only 5 have crossed the picket line. They PA'd the text to us all once all pax were off. And how we laughed.
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Which came first: BA's imposition or BASSAs refusal to negotiate, confirmed by a show of hands at the union rally?
Did you really think you could refuse to negotiate, stonewall BA for years and avoid change? Or offer 'savings' far smaller than BA sought and think they'd just accept them?
Did you really think you could refuse to negotiate, stonewall BA for years and avoid change? Or offer 'savings' far smaller than BA sought and think they'd just accept them?
We don't know what was happening in the room they were talking.
BA could have refused to negotiate as much as BASSA. I don't think WW is easy to negotiate with once he has set his mind to a specific target. His target is to destroy our union representation once and for all and to throw in an additional staff travel ticket to make us accept a deal is nothing but a carrot.
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We do know what happened because the events were recorded as sworn testimony in the court case. Off the top of my head I recall 14 meetings between BA and Unite, 9 with the BASSA element, 5 with the CC89 element, none with the two factions together because they wouldn't sit in the same room. BASSAs mandate for 'no negotiation' is a matter of record. If Walshs aim is to destroy your union representation then why has he stated publically, time and again, that BA will continue to allow Unite to represent cabin crew as part of any solution?
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MissM wrote:
Unite took BA to court at a cost of £1.2m of your money and lost the case because the judge ruled that the crew complement changes were not contractual.
Yes. Accept the changes and move on - like the rest of us who have had organisational changes, headcount reductions and salary freezes imposed on us, but we keep working to try and bring BA back to profitability.
I don't necessary have a problem with working one down but BA imposed this on us and made it clear that our agreements are not even worth the paper they are written on.
What were we suppose to do? Go to work and ignore it?
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reading some of the latest posts I am speechless. It is making me understand more about why the idea of peace in the world is pure utopia! 
if professional people cannot even get over their own preconceptions and listen to each other when they work in the same place, no wonder strangers can hate one another based on something someone told them that must be true because that someone is their friend.
all this quibbling about whether BA is telling the truth or not, when there is data available for people to see. No need to having to trust WW or your managers, but I keep on forgetting that allegedly BASSA reps could not look at the data.
People thinking the strike is the cause of the damage can't see that the damage was already there: this was always going to be a war of power and it was always going to end like this because this is what people wanted.
How do we move forward? How CAN we move forward? how can we mend what appears to be broken beyond repair? Ba and Unite can reach an agreement because it is in both parties interest now, but how can we forget what has been said? I guess will continue as before, blaming each other ... no change there.
if professional people cannot even get over their own preconceptions and listen to each other when they work in the same place, no wonder strangers can hate one another based on something someone told them that must be true because that someone is their friend.
all this quibbling about whether BA is telling the truth or not, when there is data available for people to see. No need to having to trust WW or your managers, but I keep on forgetting that allegedly BASSA reps could not look at the data.
People thinking the strike is the cause of the damage can't see that the damage was already there: this was always going to be a war of power and it was always going to end like this because this is what people wanted.
How do we move forward? How CAN we move forward? how can we mend what appears to be broken beyond repair? Ba and Unite can reach an agreement because it is in both parties interest now, but how can we forget what has been said? I guess will continue as before, blaming each other ... no change there.
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I think much of the problem is that many cabin crew have all too late realised the lies and deception from their union. A union they've been loyal to that has not at all acted in their best interests throughout this whole sorry affair.
By the time they realised, they'd already put a tick in the box and then felt obliged to see it through (for some anyway).
Yes, I do blame some members of the cabin crew community for allowing themselves to be deceived like this, but the real blame lies squarely at the feet of the union for their disgraceful mismanagement of this saga
One good thing is that the union have finally been exposed for what they are and hopefully after all this is over, a more respected union emerges.
By the time they realised, they'd already put a tick in the box and then felt obliged to see it through (for some anyway).
Yes, I do blame some members of the cabin crew community for allowing themselves to be deceived like this, but the real blame lies squarely at the feet of the union for their disgraceful mismanagement of this saga
One good thing is that the union have finally been exposed for what they are and hopefully after all this is over, a more respected union emerges.
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Hi Miss M
Good to see you on the 'other side'.
As you know I like to live on both sides of the debate.
Where do you think this thing is going, do you think the talks will make a difference? Is there a possibility that the UNITE negotiators will offer a solution that is unacceptable to the BASSA reps? What type of negotiated settlement do you think would get the thumbs up from UNITE's members?
OG
Good to see you on the 'other side'.
As you know I like to live on both sides of the debate.Where do you think this thing is going, do you think the talks will make a difference? Is there a possibility that the UNITE negotiators will offer a solution that is unacceptable to the BASSA reps? What type of negotiated settlement do you think would get the thumbs up from UNITE's members?
OG