British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)

[bacabincrew]

Nevermind

They know in their hearts that they may have to work along side bitter, twisted individuals who seem to feel that, through being misinformed, they are doing the right thing.

Your post is quite offensive - people are capable of making an informed choice - the fact they chose to strike makes them neither bitter nor twisted

Edited to say to Nevermind - well done on your reply

[Keirhardie]

apology accepted, and may i just remind you that this is a 'crew thread' not a pilot thread, and you just come over narrow minded and it really is no wonder that this is such a 'one sided back slapping pilot party', if this is the way that people are treated when they try to contribute.
Nothing in my post was emotive or rude.

[Nevermind]

BACABINCREW

Yes , you are probably right. Sorry about that. I shall just stick to the facts from now on.

I'll edited it if you like.

[The Blu Riband]

The first one of the 'volunteers' to name themselves to me has my displeasure but also has my respect.

Well good for you!

Maybe this is why most strikers despise these people, they have neither honesty, nor transparency, nor courage of their convictions, but are merely hiding in the shadows, in civvies, blacked out buses, name badges off. etc etc etc

BUT YOU LET YOURSELF DOWN BADLY HERE.

My view is that the non - strikers are the brave ones!!

To make your own decision , having considered the arguments and the risks, is infinitely more courageous and principled than simply following the braying crowds on CF; or just doing what your mates say. Or listening to some retired purser with an enormous chip on his shoulder.

And anyone who has taken Bassa's propaganda over the last few months without checking the evidence and reading ALL the info (even ESS msgs , shock horror) deserves everything they get. To be bleating now about the loss of earnings and staff travel is madness. Bassa are going to check with their legal team.................... how reassuring!!


The probability is that BA will manage to encourage enough to crew to work that there is a real possibility that Bassa will become completely disenfranchised.
A union with no power , and only a few supporters - and those with no convincing case for striking.
If you are loyal to Bassa then start asking the hard questions! If you dare.

Is that what the militants want?

Do they even want to continue working for BA?

[nurjio]

Keihardie, thank goodness you are here on this forum. You write strongly, and I admire your fortitude in the face of some very uncertain times.

However, posting on this thread also will reqiuire that fortitude and some. You have dealt with (I think) the emotional side of this, and how you, personally, have the courage of your convictions. Now what are those convictions? What is the reason for your action, What do you think about BASSA/UNITE's contribution to the BA business plan so far. What do you think about the UNITE leadership and their agendas.

Your head is abive the parapet - please add an emotionless and coherent argument to your obvious inner 'strength'.

Good luck.

nurj

PS Tub-thumping does not get you very far on PPRuNe. Reasoned, coherent argument, and folk will flock to your cause.

Over to you pal.

[Nevermind]

Keirhardie

The thread title mentions airline staff, rather than cabin crew specifically.

Would you mind if I ask you what informed your choice?
It's a big step and nobody really wants to do it.

[luke77]

Kierhardie

I am VCC, so let me be the first to take your displeasure and respect!

I look forward to your informed answers upon return, thank you for contributing

L77

[nurjio]

Thanks Keirhardie. This could be the moment we have been waiting for. It will be enlightening to hear the facts as you 'interpret' them. There are thousandsof concerned employees backing BA, each of whom have wrestled with their decision. Perhaps your views will, at last, point out the flaws in Myr Walsh's strategic plan to prevent the union from ruining our arline.

Trust me, get this right Keir', and we'll listen hard and maybe see all of this mess from the 'other' angle.

nurj

[nurjio]

Easy Juan, easy does it. Give him/her a chance. Don't scare him/her off.

nurj

Keirhardie, the school run has intervened nicely to allow you to marshall your thoughts. IMHO, this thread is is a bearpit with some incredibly informed/erudite contributors - your challenge? - survival with a coherent, factual argument. Expect robust cross-examination.

[Nevermind]

Nurjio

I am also a BA pilot and don't really find you current contributions helpful to the debate. My objective (though I am obviously not very good at it!) is simply to try let CC see the other side of the argument.
Reports from crewforum suggest this may not be happening (I honestly don't know).
But if we simply stick to the facts, instead of baiting someone to come back from the school run (light hearted though it may be intended), it might clear up the issues for other contributors or lurkers.

[Human Factor]

...people are capable of making an informed choice...

Indeed they are although there is nothing compelling them to do so. IMHO, an informed choice involves seeking as much information as possible from all sides before considering all of it and making an informed decision accordingly.

Unfortunately, it would appear that a great number of cabin crew have not availed themselves of all the information on the subject, in particular the emails from Bill Francis and other BA communications, and have relied on one-sided comms from BASSA. Whether this is due to complacency, ignorance or bloody-mindedness, I have no idea.

How is it possible to make an informed choice when you only have one side of the story?

[nurjio]

Nevermind - PM'd

[The Blu Riband]

James Keir Hardie

Keir Hardie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is a time and a place for socialism, and for all workers are entitled to union representation. This man did a great deal to protect workers' rights at a time of industrial development. My father was a shipwright, as was my grandfather. But this is not the same issue . Nor is the time right for polical statements.

This is about crew striking to keep csd's from pushing a trolley, or to stop imposition which the company was compelled to introduce by the belligerence and intransigence of Bassa. BA have gone to enormous lengths to canvas crew to effect the least painful methods of saving the req'd amount.

The latest offer GUARANTEES that current crew will be unaffected financially.

Willie will not include the re-instatement of staff travel , or the amnesty of suspended crews. He has kept every promise / threat.
He has not dismissed strikers, nor has he given 90 days notice of change of contract. I am very surprised at that; but he has been totally in command of each and every step of this ridiculous pantomime.

The infantile behaviour of strikers, and their belief that they can oust him, has been embarrassing.

[demomonkey]

CF is a community of BA CC and 'invited' others. The criteria for invited is not defined.

To join CF you must register and state your BA Staff Id. Supposedly someone then checks that Id and verifies the application. Given that CF has no legal relationship to BA or vice versa the person or persons checking new applicants is doing this privately.

I'm therefore sure that either under the Data Protection Act or the Computer Misuse Act the owners of CF are committing an offence against BA's policies. Hmmm.

[Human Factor]

The latest offer GUARANTEES that current crew will be unaffected financially.

Guaranteed.

It's off the table now.

[miamimike]

Presumably after the next bout of industrial action WW will further reduce "his offer".Does this mean a two tier deal,one for those taking action and one for those choosing to work?.

[617sqn]

Sounds fair to me.

[64K]

I'm sure everybody feels disappointed that we have ended up in this very unfortunate situation now. Emails have been sent out confirming withdrawal of staff travel to those affected and still we don't seem to have a solution.

An open question to all: what can resolution of this dispute possibly look like? How will we get ourselves out of this mess?

I think it really is important to take a good look at those recent messages from Bill Francis and Willie Walsh. That and remember what it says at the top of our payslips...

[Spanner in the works]

Presumably after the next bout of industrial action WW will further reduce "his offer".Does this mean a two tier deal,one for those taking action and one for those choosing to work?.

Or maybe WW is prepared to let things meander on (although meander is an understatement as more and more flights are added to "strike days") until we reach the 90 day marker.
It would certainly solve the "stirkers" and "non-strikers" working together dilemma.

[64K]

I attended Willie's briefing today which again I considered to be very fair.

A few highlights as I've not got a great deal of time at the moment:

• The numbers published around the number of crew who reported (62% of those rostered across LHR EF/WW and LGW) were those reporting at London only - it did not include outstations;
• ALL figures published by BA are true and accurate, as they have to be for any PLC;
• Volunteer courses will continue to run through April and May;
• No plans to penalise cabin crew. Staff travel has been removed from those who went on strike to help recover costs and essentially to not reward those who are causing financial and brand damage and undermining the long-term health of the company;
• 11 aircraft will be wet leased in at LHR for the next four days of strike to supplement the EF flying programme. These 11 aircraft will bring around 15% of the total shorthaul capacity;
• There are no plans to recognise any other union for cabin crew, but it is felt that Unite is not representing the best interests of its entire membership.
• And finally, Willie confirmed that it is not he who posts under his name on PPRuNe

Will add some more info later if I get a chance...


All opinions above are personal and not those of my employer