British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LB
don't think we will ever agree, tho agree with others sentiment, yr contribution is not personal and welcome. I struggle to take seriously people who are now calling for "negotiation not imposition" when they themselves decided at a racecourse meeting not to negotiate any more.......
They must have thought WW would blink and he hasn't. He has done exactly what he has said he would and given plenty of notice. The world/regime/competitive environment has changed. BASSA have not. Personally, my view is whoever took the very poor decision to insist on 48 hrs nitestop/diversion in PIK year before, sealed WW's position and the fate of BASSA. Very poor judgement call.......
don't think we will ever agree, tho agree with others sentiment, yr contribution is not personal and welcome. I struggle to take seriously people who are now calling for "negotiation not imposition" when they themselves decided at a racecourse meeting not to negotiate any more.......
They must have thought WW would blink and he hasn't. He has done exactly what he has said he would and given plenty of notice. The world/regime/competitive environment has changed. BASSA have not. Personally, my view is whoever took the very poor decision to insist on 48 hrs nitestop/diversion in PIK year before, sealed WW's position and the fate of BASSA. Very poor judgement call.......
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Eddy, appreciate that, but what is reasonable ? Letting empty a/c leave a UK base with FC while pax have to take buses and get greatly inconvenienced ?? Pax don't really understand (or shud they) 70's (ex civil service) agreements.......
Just think some more common sense could have applied, whilst making clear to coy, exception being applied. Anyway, off thread, but IMO that is the moment BASSA alienated WW......it could have been handled much more intelligently (and in a more customer focussed way). Time, place, circumstances.........flexibility etc......
Just think some more common sense could have applied, whilst making clear to coy, exception being applied. Anyway, off thread, but IMO that is the moment BASSA alienated WW......it could have been handled much more intelligently (and in a more customer focussed way). Time, place, circumstances.........flexibility etc......
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No , it was "disruption".
And Bassa should have agreed to implement the disruption agreement.
By doing so they would have demonstrated a professional attitude to the running of a serious business.
But no, they displayed their typical belligerent and immature attitude which hardened the board's determination to effect change in the way cabin crew contribute to BA.
And Bassa should have agreed to implement the disruption agreement.
By doing so they would have demonstrated a professional attitude to the running of a serious business.
But no, they displayed their typical belligerent and immature attitude which hardened the board's determination to effect change in the way cabin crew contribute to BA.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TOM,
BA and Unite are where they are. Unite caused disruption and BA handled it very well. I will not mention it again.
Now, for the future. If BA cleanse (although I do not know how) itself of these so called militants, then there will still be 11000+ crew who were there before this all started. They may not be militants, but 6000 would have voted for action. That is not a number that you can just ignore.
BA and Unite are where they are. Unite caused disruption and BA handled it very well. I will not mention it again.
Now, for the future. If BA cleanse (although I do not know how) itself of these so called militants, then there will still be 11000+ crew who were there before this all started. They may not be militants, but 6000 would have voted for action. That is not a number that you can just ignore.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: London
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LB
would normally agree, but what were they voting for ?? remember they voted for "no negotiation" and are now turning up for work in droves, which is why I (for one) am confused what they are now disputing ?? It is unite holding banners up on double decker buses with the slogan "negotiation not imposition". Yet they voted on "no negotiation at the racecourse".
If you can explain what had changed I am really open minded and want to understand.......yet they are now imposing some kind of levy on their people.....what, why, how ?? Please indulge me.....just can't grasp the logic......and am not being difficult......
would normally agree, but what were they voting for ?? remember they voted for "no negotiation" and are now turning up for work in droves, which is why I (for one) am confused what they are now disputing ?? It is unite holding banners up on double decker buses with the slogan "negotiation not imposition". Yet they voted on "no negotiation at the racecourse".
If you can explain what had changed I am really open minded and want to understand.......yet they are now imposing some kind of levy on their people.....what, why, how ?? Please indulge me.....just can't grasp the logic......and am not being difficult......
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: london
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I honestly believe from speaking to many crew before these votes that a. they didn't know what they were voting for and b. they were sure a yes vote would just be a show of strength and force WW to back down. They were led to a cliff by BASSA in my opinion and , sadly this is where they are now.
If a. they all knew what they were voting for and b. they thought it may lead to this then we wouldn't be here now, and ALSO, I do not believe that 6000 would vote the same way again out of 11000 possibly left in the aftermath.
If a. they all knew what they were voting for and b. they thought it may lead to this then we wouldn't be here now, and ALSO, I do not believe that 6000 would vote the same way again out of 11000 possibly left in the aftermath.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a new rumour now going round that comes from a presentation from Iberia with regards to the merged company TOPCO of BA/IB:
It says in a business plan 2010-2012
-replacement of cabin crew
-creation of a new short/medium-haul airline
and various other things.
I am accepting of the BA proposal and think it is much better than UNITEs and am fed up of UNITES propaganda, but this presentation from Iberia has worried me slightly.
Not sure if I can post the link here?
It says in a business plan 2010-2012
-replacement of cabin crew
-creation of a new short/medium-haul airline
and various other things.
I am accepting of the BA proposal and think it is much better than UNITEs and am fed up of UNITES propaganda, but this presentation from Iberia has worried me slightly.
Not sure if I can post the link here?
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: England
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lightbulbs..
Now, for the future. If BA cleanse (although I do not know how) itself of these so called militants, then there will still be 11000+ crew who were there before this all started. They may not be militants, but 6000 would have voted for action. That is not a number that you can just ignore.
What if the contract is offered to us without agreement from the union? We are not all members of Unite. Is this an option, if so what are the parameters?
We already know that many of us are coming to work, how many of those voted 'yes'? The conversations I have had indicate people think the offer is very reasonable, although they would like a few 'Ts' crossed etc.
There has been robust, deep support for our company. I think that will continue to grow if more dates are announced.
Lightbulbs and any other scholars/learned people of such things please respond. (I think the english on that last bit was dodgy)!
Thank You
C
These are my thoughts re. your post, they do not represent my employer or anyone else.
Last edited by Clarified; 1st Apr 2010 at 01:17.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: London
Age: 50
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but 6000 would have voted for action. That is not a number that you can just ignore.
hopefully this is a minority as, judging by the posts on this forum, many are articulated and can engage in a discussion even when not sharing the same view, but for the others I don't really see a way out. Some people just refuse to face reality and hide their head in the sand. BA is the enemy, and since they found someone to blame, they refuse to engage. Bah!
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They may not be militants, but 6000 would have voted for action. That is not a number that you can just ignore.
As we also predicted on this thread, the offers were always going to get worse and worse and the worry was we all get tarred with the same brush. That has now happened, and we are sat here on the edge of the cliff.
Clarified, I'm I afraid have to disagree with you. That offer is not reasonable - at least not to those of us who have come to work. Why shouldn't we have the 3% bonus that was offered previously, or the MTP set at 2008/9 rates? A 4 year pay deal at only RoI is a long time to just keep up with price increases.
I understand why WW has done it. But it is very unfair to those of us who have shown our loyalty. Because if it is offered to all, with no dispensation shown to those who crossed the picket line and stood up to the Union, BA are at risk of alienating the most dedicated crew that they have. BA now have a choice: Let the strikers rot out there on strike, after all we're managing quite well without them; or bring them back in, on this offer, and alienate the dedicated, hardworking crew amongst us.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint, and not that of BA.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: on boeings finest
Posts: 184
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Highflyer14 is correct, its no used WW saying he owes them a debt of gratitude. I think perhaps they maybe a legal aspect that we are not seeing which may prevent him from "rewarding" those that came to work, only time will tell.
In respect of striking numbers, those that have been on strike are outnumbered by those that have not by over 4 to 1
In respect of striking numbers, those that have been on strike are outnumbered by those that have not by over 4 to 1
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: England
Posts: 114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Morning HighFlyer14
Who knows what will eventually be agreed on, if anything?
I understand how you feel and being a fellow non striker would also wish for the offer of the 11th March.
Let's wait and see, this has taken many twists and turns so far, can we both agree there may be more to come?
In addition!
Shouldn't we welcome colleagues who have turned their back on their union?
Is that what you meant in your earlier post?
(I am putting on my steel helmet and flak jacket, be gentle with me)!
My view, not representative of my employer or any other party.
I understand how you feel and being a fellow non striker would also wish for the offer of the 11th March.
Let's wait and see, this has taken many twists and turns so far, can we both agree there may be more to come?
In addition!
Shouldn't we welcome colleagues who have turned their back on their union?
Is that what you meant in your earlier post?
So Strikers shouldn't be fighting non-strikers. Non-strikers shouldn't be angry at Strikers.
(I am putting on my steel helmet and flak jacket, be gentle with me)!
My view, not representative of my employer or any other party.
Last edited by Clarified; 1st Apr 2010 at 09:10.
HiFlyer,
I'm truely sorry but I think you've lost the plot now. Please don't show what I feel is a base CC character trait - "what's in it for me"
What's in it for us all is still having a job in 5 years time. This is a round of cuts designed to reduce costs and allow the airline to survive. Why does there have to be anything in it for you?
All departments have taken pain and I don't hear them bleating about it. As flight crew we took a fairly significant hit and even if all the many boxes are ticked I will get shares worth about 10% of what I have given. You know what's in it for me - survival!
You moan about only getting paydeals for 4 years at RoI (think it is actually RPI). Why do you deserve rises above inflation when times are still tough?
Yes, you worked during the strike - you know what, so did thousands of others-it's called doing your job. Yes it was difficult and took bravery but so did many things others have done.
You cheapen yourself by asking for special treatment for coming to work. You should simply get on with it and expect those who have damaged the company to receive "special" treatment.
I'm truely sorry but I think you've lost the plot now. Please don't show what I feel is a base CC character trait - "what's in it for me"
What's in it for us all is still having a job in 5 years time. This is a round of cuts designed to reduce costs and allow the airline to survive. Why does there have to be anything in it for you?
All departments have taken pain and I don't hear them bleating about it. As flight crew we took a fairly significant hit and even if all the many boxes are ticked I will get shares worth about 10% of what I have given. You know what's in it for me - survival!
You moan about only getting paydeals for 4 years at RoI (think it is actually RPI). Why do you deserve rises above inflation when times are still tough?
Yes, you worked during the strike - you know what, so did thousands of others-it's called doing your job. Yes it was difficult and took bravery but so did many things others have done.
You cheapen yourself by asking for special treatment for coming to work. You should simply get on with it and expect those who have damaged the company to receive "special" treatment.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: South West London
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hiflyer
I am afraid I agree with Flaps62 on this. If we were to deserve special treatment because we followed the Company line and not the BASSA one, we would be giving ammunition to those union members who claim that only they should be entitled to the (past) benefits gained as a result of the union's efforts. I am proud to be working through the strike, and I just hope I come out of this with a job at the end - that will be my reward.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: 35,000 ft
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Clarified - Morning - yes absolutely agree - there's still some mileage left in this yet, so who knows what turns it will take.
Flap62/Wheezyjet
I think you misunderstand me - this is not just about "the offer" - it is about crew recognising what BASSA have done. And I am not sure that they will.
I am not asking for "special treatment". I do not blame BA at all - it is clearly BASSA who have done this to us. Many of us saw it coming, and we have tried, in various ways to speak out about what they are doing to us. We have been stifled at every turn - you only have to look at the appalling Youtube Arora video, the story of Crewhusband's wife, etc. to see what we are up against. We have worked under this oppression for years. Someone I flew with on a strike day was shouted at ("S***) in the car park by an arrival crew. Commuters on EF flights have been snubbing the operating crew. The police had to man the car park due to the motorbike incident. So please don't underestimate what we have had to go through simply "to do our jobs" as you put it.
I am not "moaning" about the paydeal. I fully understand the need to only have a paydeal of RPI (my mistake, apologies). But to have it for 4 years is a long time - who knows what the situation will be like in 4 years time.
I am saying to cabin crew who, as Clarified said, think that this deal is reasonable is: it is not. There have been far better deals on the table, that have been turned down on our behalf, without our consultation by BASSA.
Our community, as happened in the last "almost strike" have been sold the river. We are on the verge of having to accept this deal (and as I stated earlier I understand why) BECAUSE OF BASSA'S STUPIDITY. Then what? They all come back to work and we go round the same merrygoround again?
Yes, we will more than likely have to accept this deal, but it is still grossly unfair that BASSA's misrepresentation has caused this. I do not want BASSA to be able to misrepresent us in this way again. If crew do not wake up and realise that this deal is very poor compared to previous deals, then there is no hope for us ever getting off this merry-go-round.
Quite frankly, if BASSA come back in the building, and are allowed to continue in the future, I will leave BA. Many of my friends feel the same. There is no reason for hard-working, dedicated employees to have to put up with this Sh*t any longer.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
Flap62/Wheezyjet
I think you misunderstand me - this is not just about "the offer" - it is about crew recognising what BASSA have done. And I am not sure that they will.
I am not asking for "special treatment". I do not blame BA at all - it is clearly BASSA who have done this to us. Many of us saw it coming, and we have tried, in various ways to speak out about what they are doing to us. We have been stifled at every turn - you only have to look at the appalling Youtube Arora video, the story of Crewhusband's wife, etc. to see what we are up against. We have worked under this oppression for years. Someone I flew with on a strike day was shouted at ("S***) in the car park by an arrival crew. Commuters on EF flights have been snubbing the operating crew. The police had to man the car park due to the motorbike incident. So please don't underestimate what we have had to go through simply "to do our jobs" as you put it.
I am not "moaning" about the paydeal. I fully understand the need to only have a paydeal of RPI (my mistake, apologies). But to have it for 4 years is a long time - who knows what the situation will be like in 4 years time.
I am saying to cabin crew who, as Clarified said, think that this deal is reasonable is: it is not. There have been far better deals on the table, that have been turned down on our behalf, without our consultation by BASSA.
Our community, as happened in the last "almost strike" have been sold the river. We are on the verge of having to accept this deal (and as I stated earlier I understand why) BECAUSE OF BASSA'S STUPIDITY. Then what? They all come back to work and we go round the same merrygoround again?
Yes, we will more than likely have to accept this deal, but it is still grossly unfair that BASSA's misrepresentation has caused this. I do not want BASSA to be able to misrepresent us in this way again. If crew do not wake up and realise that this deal is very poor compared to previous deals, then there is no hope for us ever getting off this merry-go-round.
Quite frankly, if BASSA come back in the building, and are allowed to continue in the future, I will leave BA. Many of my friends feel the same. There is no reason for hard-working, dedicated employees to have to put up with this Sh*t any longer.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my viewpoint and not that of BA.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA input to this thread
Hello all!
Is it my imagination, or has the debate become one-sided again?
Apart from Litebulb's valiant - and cogent - contributions, none of the usual BASSA apologists have contributed here for the last few days.
One has to ask whether the pro-union faction have run out of ideas, if they have lost heart and given up the battle, or whether they are in the dressing rooms at Bedfont Football Club being briefed (via Skype, perhaps?) by Lizanne Malone directly from her LAX living room.
Does anybody have any answers either on the location of pro-BASSA contributors or - more importantly - whether or not they will show up here?
To prime the pump, so to speak, many of us would like to learn at first hand from BASSA just what the strike was all about.
Is it my imagination, or has the debate become one-sided again?
Apart from Litebulb's valiant - and cogent - contributions, none of the usual BASSA apologists have contributed here for the last few days.
One has to ask whether the pro-union faction have run out of ideas, if they have lost heart and given up the battle, or whether they are in the dressing rooms at Bedfont Football Club being briefed (via Skype, perhaps?) by Lizanne Malone directly from her LAX living room.
Does anybody have any answers either on the location of pro-BASSA contributors or - more importantly - whether or not they will show up here?
To prime the pump, so to speak, many of us would like to learn at first hand from BASSA just what the strike was all about.
Couldonlyaffordafiver
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: The Twilight Zone near 30W
Posts: 1,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA to break away from UNITE!!!,and join up with BALPA!!...can I be the first one to welcome all our new brothers-peace be with you.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hamptonne
Posts: 384
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BASSA to break away from UNITE!!!,and join up with BALPA!!...can I be the first one to welcome all our new brothers-peace be with you.
