British Airways vs. BASSA (Airline Staff Only)
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The minority are causing the most damage
Eddy I think you're right not to go down to BFC or picket. I agree with you that most crew there seem to be able to behave with dignity, however, upon viewing a few clips off youtube, there must have been more than 100 crew involved in the demo outside Arora (again a minority probably compared to those at BCF), plus those on the picket line loudly singing 'I'd rather be a picket than a ****).
These are the images that are being shown around the UK/world and are nothing but hugely brand damaging. I doubt anyone could argue otherwise. Why don't these ill informed crew who have now acted illegally understand that they are only shooting themselves in the foot?
I do not believe for one miniute that the British public approve of this type of behaviour, so support for them will diminish rapidly - in fact I think it already has. A lot of those on strike, including yourself do not endourse this kind of behaviour.
The sad thing here is that I have seen:
[LIST][*]Crew posting dangerous things (dreadful, shocking, nasty things) on the forums that BA no doubt have access to or can get access if they wish.
My point is that I think a lot of naive crew have been swept up the the emotion of the entire despite and beleive that no matter what happens. Bassa will take care of them.
I dont think many of them have really thought this through and someone hit the nail on the head many threads back by stating that over the years, Bassa have trained the crew to believe that everything BA says is a lie (I know their not saints but not everything they say is a lie), therefore, they don't read their ESS and because of that, they are only finding out now, the consequences of their actions all too late. Its sad to see so many good, hard working crew go down this route.
Its also very sad that long friendships have gone down the drain over something like this. I have lost a very good friend who refuses to speak to me ever again, because I chose to go to work. Its just mad!!
These are the images that are being shown around the UK/world and are nothing but hugely brand damaging. I doubt anyone could argue otherwise. Why don't these ill informed crew who have now acted illegally understand that they are only shooting themselves in the foot?
I do not believe for one miniute that the British public approve of this type of behaviour, so support for them will diminish rapidly - in fact I think it already has. A lot of those on strike, including yourself do not endourse this kind of behaviour.
The sad thing here is that I have seen:
- Many of my friends now doing very silly things - serously jeopardizing their careers. E.g Arora demo.
- I have read the bassa forum and crew there are shocked that their pays have been deducted this month. They don't seem to understand that it's their basic that's been deducted this month, flight pay next month.
- Crew that are convinced that ST will be returned and that this is illegal for it be be withdrawn.
[LIST][*]Crew posting dangerous things (dreadful, shocking, nasty things) on the forums that BA no doubt have access to or can get access if they wish.
My point is that I think a lot of naive crew have been swept up the the emotion of the entire despite and beleive that no matter what happens. Bassa will take care of them.
I dont think many of them have really thought this through and someone hit the nail on the head many threads back by stating that over the years, Bassa have trained the crew to believe that everything BA says is a lie (I know their not saints but not everything they say is a lie), therefore, they don't read their ESS and because of that, they are only finding out now, the consequences of their actions all too late. Its sad to see so many good, hard working crew go down this route.
Its also very sad that long friendships have gone down the drain over something like this. I have lost a very good friend who refuses to speak to me ever again, because I chose to go to work. Its just mad!!
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Get Smart.
Well summed up. I have worked over both strike periods and have seen a mixture of emotions throughout. There has been a genuine desire from alot of employees to come in and support the company, there are others who support the strike but can't afford to lose pay or staff travel. On flights the atmosphere has been good ( my experience only from euroflleet flights), and passengers have been relieved and thankful to get to their destinations.
The underlying concern for most people has been how we are going to all work together now and in the future. I've spoken to many people who have lost good friends as a result of this dispute, and many who are terrified that they are going to experience nastiness and be ostracised on trips.
I hope that on returning to work that people display the maturity shown by Eddy and others on here, however the scenes outside the Arora have made me worry that there will be fallout.
Just a quick thankyou to the volunteers that stood out in the rain, manned the carpark and the crc.
Well summed up. I have worked over both strike periods and have seen a mixture of emotions throughout. There has been a genuine desire from alot of employees to come in and support the company, there are others who support the strike but can't afford to lose pay or staff travel. On flights the atmosphere has been good ( my experience only from euroflleet flights), and passengers have been relieved and thankful to get to their destinations.
The underlying concern for most people has been how we are going to all work together now and in the future. I've spoken to many people who have lost good friends as a result of this dispute, and many who are terrified that they are going to experience nastiness and be ostracised on trips.
I hope that on returning to work that people display the maturity shown by Eddy and others on here, however the scenes outside the Arora have made me worry that there will be fallout.
Just a quick thankyou to the volunteers that stood out in the rain, manned the carpark and the crc.
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get smart, it is not illegal to have demo outside the aurora. I am a striker and damn proud!! 
I do not agree with the demo outside the hotel as such but it is fundamental human right to participate if you wish to do so. I am damn proud of colleagues. don't have the stomach for it? they will call sick, yes sure some did but let me tell you we are much more determined than 1997... the people I saw at bedfont made me proud. now attack me because have a democratic right to strike.
I do not agree with the demo outside the hotel as such but it is fundamental human right to participate if you wish to do so. I am damn proud of colleagues. don't have the stomach for it? they will call sick, yes sure some did but let me tell you we are much more determined than 1997... the people I saw at bedfont made me proud. now attack me because have a democratic right to strike.
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Its also very sad that long friendships have gone down the drain over something like this. I have lost a very good friend who refuses to speak to me ever again, because I chose to go to work. Its just mad!!
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I don't think anyone is denying your right to strike. I think it is more to do with disgust at the behaviour of those who are on strike - Hitler masks, devils eyes etc. I think we are puzzled also that while trumpeting your right to strike you seem perplexed when your employer exercises its' rights - like not paying you when you withdraw your labour.
It may be your legal right to hold the demo, and if the crowd had simply walked past the Arora nobody would have noticed....but walking past the Arora yelling scab could well be contrued as a fairly shallowly hidden attempt at intimidation. Certainly not good for the image of caring Cabin Crew that UNITE have been trying to put out, is it? And as an aside, why is everyone so obsessed with pushing this stuff out on youtube, especially when the particpants are so easy to recognise.....
Perhaps you are, but you are fast being overtaken by events and fast becoming irrelevant to the future of BA and the majority of it's Cabin Crew.
let me tell you we are much more determined than 1997
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flying_chick, put down the wooden cross dear.
Nobody here has the right to attack you.
Post doing that will be deleted by the Mods.
People are here to discuss arguments, hopes, opinions, news, rumours and ideas and hopefully solutions.
So feel free to contribute those rather than posting a two fingered salute and a martyrdom declaration.
Nobody here has the right to attack you.
Post doing that will be deleted by the Mods.
People are here to discuss arguments, hopes, opinions, news, rumours and ideas and hopefully solutions.
So feel free to contribute those rather than posting a two fingered salute and a martyrdom declaration.
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Flaps, as a mod shouldn't you try and be a little more neutral and dimplomatic than that? FC's post was clearly a little tongue in cheek because of the smiley at the end....
Controversial, moi?
flying_chick
You seem to hold very strong views so would you (as nobody else has yet replied despite repeated requests by several people) state what are the reasons for being on strike and what you want to achieve before returning to work?
It would be of of interest to many of us if you do so. The moderator's statement makes it clear that personal attacks on you will be deleted so what have you got to lose?
You seem to hold very strong views so would you (as nobody else has yet replied despite repeated requests by several people) state what are the reasons for being on strike and what you want to achieve before returning to work?
It would be of of interest to many of us if you do so. The moderator's statement makes it clear that personal attacks on you will be deleted so what have you got to lose?
Last edited by M.Mouse; 31st Mar 2010 at 16:17. Reason: To correct errors which made a sentence very odd to read !
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Seems the DFT doesn't like the idea of the BASSA 'I supported the strike, the rest of you are wimps' stickers either!
Looking forward to seeing them almost as much as the 'support BASSA' Iwo Jima stickers! 
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Eddy, neutral means not taking sides.
Where in my post do you see me taking sides?
Where in the past 6 threads on this subject have you seen ANY mod here taking sides?
You haven´t because it has not happened.
I suggest you either back up your accusation or retract it smartly.
This is not BA, this is not BASSA, this PPRuNe.
We have no vested interest either way, and we do not need to pander to anybody. Simply put, we do not pussy foot around anybody´s sensibilities.
*************
As for diplomacy; it has its place and time.
When flying_chick makes an utterly meaningless post, containing nothing more than empty war-cries followed by a completely misplaced expectation of martyrdom, that is NOT the time for diplomacy.
We moderators (non BA CC) devote an inordinate amount of unpaid time to provide BA CC with the single bully-free independent forum on the net.
That gives us the moral right (and duty?) to call a spade a spade, a meaningless post a meaningless post and the pretense of martyrdom just plain daft.
Where in my post do you see me taking sides?
Where in the past 6 threads on this subject have you seen ANY mod here taking sides?
You haven´t because it has not happened.
I suggest you either back up your accusation or retract it smartly.
This is not BA, this is not BASSA, this PPRuNe.
We have no vested interest either way, and we do not need to pander to anybody. Simply put, we do not pussy foot around anybody´s sensibilities.
*************
As for diplomacy; it has its place and time.
When flying_chick makes an utterly meaningless post, containing nothing more than empty war-cries followed by a completely misplaced expectation of martyrdom, that is NOT the time for diplomacy.
We moderators (non BA CC) devote an inordinate amount of unpaid time to provide BA CC with the single bully-free independent forum on the net.
That gives us the moral right (and duty?) to call a spade a spade, a meaningless post a meaningless post and the pretense of martyrdom just plain daft.
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Flying chick, you are absolutly correct you do have the right to strike, equally others have the right not to strike. Some BA cabin crew are not in the union so therefore would not be taking part in a legal strike, also how do you think crew of other airlines that stay at the Arroa felt?. Some of which may be working for the airlines BA sub chartered, and are therefore doing the job their employer pays them for. My guess was everyone inside that hotel was left felling intimidated, not a great feeling when you are trying to rest, by what can only be discribed as a self rightous, angry mob. I know that like you many BA cabin crew fell very strongly about the way this situation with BA and unite has unfolded, and act with the upmost dignity and professionalisum. Sadly now thanks to this mob,Unite and You Tube clips you will all be veiwed the same as the angry mob 
.
I think the mismanagement of this dispute by Bassa will be Bassa's downfall and unite will sugest a new body within BA?..
.I think the mismanagement of this dispute by Bassa will be Bassa's downfall and unite will sugest a new body within BA?..
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Wise word Mundymort........ or perhaps not.
BA is a carrier about to merge with Iberia and about to sign up a lucrative deal with AA! Doesn't sound like BA will be going anywhere for the foreseeable future irrespective of BASSA's attempt.
The mid eastern carriers are suffering hugely at the moment and will also be hurting into the near future. Especially Emirates!
Good luck finding your slots with them.
BA is a carrier about to merge with Iberia and about to sign up a lucrative deal with AA! Doesn't sound like BA will be going anywhere for the foreseeable future irrespective of BASSA's attempt.
The mid eastern carriers are suffering hugely at the moment and will also be hurting into the near future. Especially Emirates!
Good luck finding your slots with them.
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From the log in page of the BA staff travel site:
That statement has been there a long time. BA don't need a procedure to withdraw staff travel.
Staff travel is a non-contractual and discretionary benefit granted at the sole discretion of BA and as such can be withdrawn or varied at the sole discretion of the Company at any time.
Litebulbs,
Reality check from you please. take off your rose tinted unite spectacles and look at the real world.
When was the last time a work group commited such public suicide and managed to galvanise the VAST majority of work colleagues against them?
Staff travel is not a benefit, it is a perk. It is a perk that most of us really value, but it is a perk none-the-less. Most of us who are backing OUR company would be outraged if the strikers were allowed to continue with their ST. the company have been very honest and forthright the whole way in this debacle "If you go on strike you WILL lose your ST permanently". For a bunch of people who are so hell-bent on destroying the company, please explain why the company should give them anything at all. Like the vast majority of my colleagues I really hope that WW keeps his word and never gives the strikers their ST back. I also hope that will include those who took an unjustified sickie!
As a pilot VCC I have just had the pleasure of flying with the kind of people that I really do wish to continue to fly with. They were hard working, courteous, considerate and a down-right credit to BA.
In life we all have rights. However, we also have responsibilities.
It was the responsibility of bassa to negotiate sensibly on behalf of their members. It was the responsibility of bassa reps to negotiate the best deal FOR THEIR MEMBERS, not for old contract bassa CSDs and purser reps only.
We have all been guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment rather than thinking, before we speak. I know I have done this (mods got there quickly) and I apologise publicly for that now.
Most of us take no pleasure in seeing the horrendous predicament that I see so many of my cabin crew friends and collegues in now. Alas, I have had to point out to these people that I really care for that some of the blame for this debacle is on their shoulders, whether they realise it or not.
Too many very sensible people have allowed the hard-nosed extremists, the louts, the bullies and the selfish to get into positions of power within bassa. These people in bassa have then abused their power - and landed you all in a right mess.
I am hopeful that WW will ensure that those that came to work, and helped keep the airline viable, will be rewarded after it is all over. Temp crew kept on, volunteer ground people kept on as cabin crew.
As keeps coming up on this forum, the atmosphere at work during the strike days has been FAR better than I have seen in all my time in BA. The only difference can be that those not at work during the strike days have had a negative impact the rest of the time with their constant moaning and negative attitude.
I continue to be optimistic that this nasty process will be a blessing in disguise. The nasty and undesirable element will be expunged and BA will become a much more functional and enjoyable place to work!
Reality check from you please. take off your rose tinted unite spectacles and look at the real world.
When was the last time a work group commited such public suicide and managed to galvanise the VAST majority of work colleagues against them?
Staff travel is not a benefit, it is a perk. It is a perk that most of us really value, but it is a perk none-the-less. Most of us who are backing OUR company would be outraged if the strikers were allowed to continue with their ST. the company have been very honest and forthright the whole way in this debacle "If you go on strike you WILL lose your ST permanently". For a bunch of people who are so hell-bent on destroying the company, please explain why the company should give them anything at all. Like the vast majority of my colleagues I really hope that WW keeps his word and never gives the strikers their ST back. I also hope that will include those who took an unjustified sickie!
As a pilot VCC I have just had the pleasure of flying with the kind of people that I really do wish to continue to fly with. They were hard working, courteous, considerate and a down-right credit to BA.
In life we all have rights. However, we also have responsibilities.
It was the responsibility of bassa to negotiate sensibly on behalf of their members. It was the responsibility of bassa reps to negotiate the best deal FOR THEIR MEMBERS, not for old contract bassa CSDs and purser reps only.
We have all been guilty of saying things in the heat of the moment rather than thinking, before we speak. I know I have done this (mods got there quickly) and I apologise publicly for that now.
Most of us take no pleasure in seeing the horrendous predicament that I see so many of my cabin crew friends and collegues in now. Alas, I have had to point out to these people that I really care for that some of the blame for this debacle is on their shoulders, whether they realise it or not.
Too many very sensible people have allowed the hard-nosed extremists, the louts, the bullies and the selfish to get into positions of power within bassa. These people in bassa have then abused their power - and landed you all in a right mess.
I am hopeful that WW will ensure that those that came to work, and helped keep the airline viable, will be rewarded after it is all over. Temp crew kept on, volunteer ground people kept on as cabin crew.
As keeps coming up on this forum, the atmosphere at work during the strike days has been FAR better than I have seen in all my time in BA. The only difference can be that those not at work during the strike days have had a negative impact the rest of the time with their constant moaning and negative attitude.
I continue to be optimistic that this nasty process will be a blessing in disguise. The nasty and undesirable element will be expunged and BA will become a much more functional and enjoyable place to work!
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Can you now answer my question please?
Staff Travel is a perk in the SOLE GIFT of your employer. It can be withdrawn at any time and for any reason. No procedures are required, and no precedents need to be set.
This has been made blindingly obvious from the long succession of ESS mails from BF to all cc. If you chose not to read them, or chose to believe the fairy tales that BASSA produce by way of facts then, yes, you do need to take off the rose tinted specs.
It is interesting that WW toyed with the idea of an airline wide ballot to decide whether or not your fellow employees thought ST should be restored to strikers. In the end he decided not to, and I think wisely, because such a ballot would further isolate a section of the workforce that are utterly bereft of either support or leadership. You are truly and utterly on your own.
The only choice is to act in your own best interests. Your union certainly haven't.