British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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Exeng - cabin crew thread about a very real and very traumatic situation for those cabin crew that are involved in it. Please kindly bear that in mind before you post.
To Dutchstar and DCW - huge hugs.
It is absolutely normal to feel anxious about it - you wouldn't be human if you didn't.
I have flown with several people who feel like you and are now in the same boat. This is an enormous burden that Unite have placed on a few - and unfortunately you have drawn the short straw. But you are not alone. The PCCC will be crossing that picket line, and we will be extremely proud to do so.
Everyone has their own reasons for doing what they are doing. You are both obviously intelligent people, and I think you have probably answered your own questions about what to do.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council are reporting for duty - please see our website www.professionalcrewcouncil.com and if you email us we will send you the exact information on where the pickets are and other safety info.
You have found us now - we won't let you down.
Eddy - respect mate. That's what a lot of people don't understand:
Unite have the right to strike. The Professional Cabin Crew Council and the rest of the moderate crew have the right to come to work. No one is going to deny us that right.
To Dutchstar and DCW - huge hugs.
It is absolutely normal to feel anxious about it - you wouldn't be human if you didn't.
I have flown with several people who feel like you and are now in the same boat. This is an enormous burden that Unite have placed on a few - and unfortunately you have drawn the short straw. But you are not alone. The PCCC will be crossing that picket line, and we will be extremely proud to do so.
Everyone has their own reasons for doing what they are doing. You are both obviously intelligent people, and I think you have probably answered your own questions about what to do.
The Professional Cabin Crew Council are reporting for duty - please see our website www.professionalcrewcouncil.com and if you email us we will send you the exact information on where the pickets are and other safety info.
You have found us now - we won't let you down.
Eddy - respect mate. That's what a lot of people don't understand:
Unite have the right to strike. The Professional Cabin Crew Council and the rest of the moderate crew have the right to come to work. No one is going to deny us that right.
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Interesting reading the pccc website. Just as misleading as most other parties involved in this implosion of industrial relations at BA.
How exactly do the pccc propose to obtain bargaining rights when an agreement is already in place?
How exactly do the pccc propose to obtain bargaining rights when an agreement is already in place?
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How exactly do the pccc propose to obtain bargaining rights when an agreement is already in place?
(a) Do the PCCC need "bargaining rights" to negotiate with the company and represent their colleagues?
(b) What exactly do these "bargaining rights" do for BASSA members, many of whom do not feel they are properly represented by Malone and the Kitchen Fitters, and who may well have appreciated the opportunity to vote on the BA offer before BASSA made sure they never got the chance?
I ask because the only benefit of being a recognised body seems to be the one that puts 15 quid a month into the hands of people who don't seem to appreciate that it isn't their money to do with as they please.
Reminder: Find out where each and every single BASSA rep is tomorrow morning. Unless they are there in the centre circle for kick-off, force them out of the union and stop paying them your hard earned cash.
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Please read the Guide to Parties on the following site -
CAC - Schedule A1 (Part1)
What exactly do these "bargaining rights" do for BASSA members, many of whom do not feel they are properly represented by Malone and the Kitchen Fitters, and who may well have appreciated the opportunity to vote on the BA offer before BASSA made sure they never got the chance?
You still have rights with regard to your individual contract, but you will not have collective strength (no doubt this part will draw some comment!).
With regard to voting, that is what you pay your fees for. This gives you a voice. What did the chairman say about meals and menu?
Last edited by Litebulbs; 19th Mar 2010 at 03:20. Reason: Content added
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Litebulbs,
I understand the technicalities, but what is to stop the company acting voluntarily? If they offered, via the PCCC, a much better deal for employees, and that could be communicated to their colleagues, allowing them to put pressure on the union, would BASSA and UNITE reject it out of hand purely because they did not have a hand in it?
Surely you can see the common thread here is that many BASSA members feel that their voices are not being heard, and that they feel the union leadership are being overly antagonistic without justification, and are acting in their own interests, not that of members?
That is the great shame of all of this. Public perception is without a doubt against Cabin Crew at the moment, only because the public are probably not aware that the blame lays squarely at the feet of the BASSA reps and certain UNITE leaders.
Recent emails from BASSA members demonstrate what I know from my own private communications: Many, many people are frightened for their prospects (much of which is down to the fear factor constantly badgered into them by BASSA and UNITE) but they are starting to realise that the Unions have taken this too far.
I would urge all BASSA members to at least communicate their worries to the PCCC, if only because perhaps it will give a wake up call to Malone and her cronies and make them realise they must start acting reasonably for the sake of their members and all other BA colleagues, who let us remember also have families to feed and bills to pay.
I understand the technicalities, but what is to stop the company acting voluntarily? If they offered, via the PCCC, a much better deal for employees, and that could be communicated to their colleagues, allowing them to put pressure on the union, would BASSA and UNITE reject it out of hand purely because they did not have a hand in it?
Surely you can see the common thread here is that many BASSA members feel that their voices are not being heard, and that they feel the union leadership are being overly antagonistic without justification, and are acting in their own interests, not that of members?
That is the great shame of all of this. Public perception is without a doubt against Cabin Crew at the moment, only because the public are probably not aware that the blame lays squarely at the feet of the BASSA reps and certain UNITE leaders.
Recent emails from BASSA members demonstrate what I know from my own private communications: Many, many people are frightened for their prospects (much of which is down to the fear factor constantly badgered into them by BASSA and UNITE) but they are starting to realise that the Unions have taken this too far.
I would urge all BASSA members to at least communicate their worries to the PCCC, if only because perhaps it will give a wake up call to Malone and her cronies and make them realise they must start acting reasonably for the sake of their members and all other BA colleagues, who let us remember also have families to feed and bills to pay.
The politicing (sp?) goes on.
Union behind BA strike receives £18m from taxpayers in ‘money-laundering’ deal with Labour - Telegraph
Complete with scary pic of Whelan looking like something from the Bolshevic revolution 
Charlie Whelan arrives at Downing Street. Photo: Alan Davidson/The Picture Library Ltd
Union behind BA strike receives £18m from taxpayers in ‘money-laundering’ deal with Labour - Telegraph
Union behind BA strike receives £18m from taxpayers in ‘money-laundering’ deal with Labour
The union behind the British Airways strike has received £18million from taxpayers under Labour
Francis Maude, the Shadow Cabinet Office Minister, said: “This really looks like money laundering - taxpayers' money is being funnelled into Unite then put straight back into Labour's coffers.
The union behind the British Airways strike has received £18million from taxpayers under Labour
Francis Maude, the Shadow Cabinet Office Minister, said: “This really looks like money laundering - taxpayers' money is being funnelled into Unite then put straight back into Labour's coffers.
Charlie Whelan arrives at Downing Street. Photo: Alan Davidson/The Picture Library Ltd
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DCW..
Hi DCW,
I would never normally show my hand on this forum, but I'll tell you this. I'm a BA Captain, and if ANY crewmember came to me with concerns about his/her treatment by colleagues, they would get my full and unlimited support, and the same from BA. Period. I'm sure you would get the same from 99.9% of my colleagues. You don't have to tell anyone how you voted - it's not relevant. Just deal with the facts on the day.
Park on a quiet street somewhere, take a taxi in civies, with a casual (non-crew) suitcase. Leave your crew handbag, suitcase, wheelie bag etc at home. Go to CRC. Nobody is allowed near it who isn't on duty. Not even commuters arriving home. I think you will find in a couple of weeks time you will be amazed at how many crew will be sharing the same story with you down route, and the hardliners will be a sad minority. How THEY choose to deal with their defeat is up to them, but you will be amongst many, many friends. Not least you will have the utmost respect and support from your flight crew.
Best Wishes.
I would never normally show my hand on this forum, but I'll tell you this. I'm a BA Captain, and if ANY crewmember came to me with concerns about his/her treatment by colleagues, they would get my full and unlimited support, and the same from BA. Period. I'm sure you would get the same from 99.9% of my colleagues. You don't have to tell anyone how you voted - it's not relevant. Just deal with the facts on the day.
Park on a quiet street somewhere, take a taxi in civies, with a casual (non-crew) suitcase. Leave your crew handbag, suitcase, wheelie bag etc at home. Go to CRC. Nobody is allowed near it who isn't on duty. Not even commuters arriving home. I think you will find in a couple of weeks time you will be amazed at how many crew will be sharing the same story with you down route, and the hardliners will be a sad minority. How THEY choose to deal with their defeat is up to them, but you will be amongst many, many friends. Not least you will have the utmost respect and support from your flight crew.
Best Wishes.
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Originally Posted by ChicoG
Malone and the Kitchen Fitters
Regardless of your opinion about this whole situation, Ms. Malone et al will be acting in the best interests of their members. They may occasionally make a wrong decision, but that's not to say they did so with malice.
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That said, it's chicken feed in the big scheme of where we are right now. No-one, but no-one is coming out covered in glory in the aftermath of this and the airline will be punished financially and thus, by extrapolation, so will all us employees. I know from CrewForum that some crew certainly claim under the cover of anonymity that they don't mind what happens as long as either the flight crew get screwed and the company can go to hell in a handcart. I wonder, truly, how many can afford to watch the company fold and walk away into a new career, or persuade another airline to match the terms and conditions available.
May we live in interesting times. But I'd rather not frankly.
I hope you're well and you'll stick around here mate. Rational debate by both sides can be a bit thin on the ground here at times so someone who can more eloquently explain a pro-BASSA stance is a vital part of dragging this debate out of the mire that it can often sink into.
ATB
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Picket Lines
For all those crews worried about crossing picket lines........ don't be. Picket lines and positions may be announced today but more probably tomorrow at the football ground, and guess what? won't be much of a significant presence anywhere that counts.
Each official picket, and UNITE have applied for 5 can only be 6 strong, and expect them to be policed and observed discreetly be BA.
Each official picket, and UNITE have applied for 5 can only be 6 strong, and expect them to be policed and observed discreetly be BA.
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They're not Picket Lines
For all those crews worried about crossing picket lines........ don't be. Picket lines and positions may be announced today but more probably tomorrow at the football ground, and guess what? won't be much of a significant presence anywhere that counts.
Each official picket, and UNITE have applied for 5 can only be 6 strong, and expect them to be policed and observed discreetly be BA.
Each official picket, and UNITE have applied for 5 can only be 6 strong, and expect them to be policed and observed discreetly be BA.
The chances are there will be more police than pickets anyway.
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@HiFlyer14
Your comment to exeng is of course your affair, however IMO, you were rather effusive in your praise of DCW compared to the general impressions I have gained from your earlier posts. It must be evident that there comes a time when people must be prepared to take responsibility for their actions.
My impression ( and if I am told I am wrong, I will happily apologise) is that DCW is likely to have been a "Yes" voter who, when faced with the results of her vote, is now very fearful of the implications.
As has been posted previously, people who vote to strike have a resonsibility to follow up on their actions, otherwise ( IMO ) :
1) They should do some deep thinking about their motivation... or...
2) They did what they were told to do because they like to be served
a "ready-made" solution without needing to think themselves and...
3) They have no regard for any fellow employees
A large number of posts have emphasised the maturity, intelligence, professionalism and responsibility of CC. These characteristics are not evident in the actions of a "Yes Voter" non-striker.
My impression ( and if I am told I am wrong, I will happily apologise) is that DCW is likely to have been a "Yes" voter who, when faced with the results of her vote, is now very fearful of the implications.
As has been posted previously, people who vote to strike have a resonsibility to follow up on their actions, otherwise ( IMO ) :
1) They should do some deep thinking about their motivation... or...
2) They did what they were told to do because they like to be served
a "ready-made" solution without needing to think themselves and...
3) They have no regard for any fellow employees
A large number of posts have emphasised the maturity, intelligence, professionalism and responsibility of CC. These characteristics are not evident in the actions of a "Yes Voter" non-striker.
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Not at all Alpineskier!
Anyone can make a mistake, or change their mind when faced with different information.
Many crew, rightly or wrongly, voted to "teach Willie a lesson".
This was a mistake. But their union encouraged this attitude - and still does.
BA cabin crew....... Look at the issues, look at what's at stake. Don't be afraid or intimidated, BA is a good company , and you have a great job!
Forget the rhetoric about Willie, mp's, the bogey man etc etc
Friends of mine have realised that Bassa is out of control and they have to do something to stop the runaway train before we all lose everything.
Anyone can make a mistake, or change their mind when faced with different information.
Many crew, rightly or wrongly, voted to "teach Willie a lesson".
This was a mistake. But their union encouraged this attitude - and still does.
BA cabin crew....... Look at the issues, look at what's at stake. Don't be afraid or intimidated, BA is a good company , and you have a great job!
Forget the rhetoric about Willie, mp's, the bogey man etc etc
Friends of mine have realised that Bassa is out of control and they have to do something to stop the runaway train before we all lose everything.
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Interesting live programme on BBC Radio 5...tune in.
BBC iPlayer Console - Listen live - BBC Radio 5 live
BBC iPlayer Console - Listen live - BBC Radio 5 live
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Alpineskier
.. that's all very well, but BASSA made a great play of using your vote to 'send a message to BA' and 'force them back to the negotiating table'. To my knowledge they did not say 'only vote yes if you are 100% prepared to go on strike' as any responsible union should.
Added to that the debate amongst CC themselves has now opened up, and - shock horror - some are actually feeling able to discuss BASSA's actions without fear of total retribution! This is shedding a whole new light on the argument for many, AFTER the ballot was in.
IMHO Any crewmember should go with their decision based on the facts known TODAY, and not the rhetoric of BASSA of 6 weeks ago.
Added to that the debate amongst CC themselves has now opened up, and - shock horror - some are actually feeling able to discuss BASSA's actions without fear of total retribution! This is shedding a whole new light on the argument for many, AFTER the ballot was in.
IMHO Any crewmember should go with their decision based on the facts known TODAY, and not the rhetoric of BASSA of 6 weeks ago.
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@Papillon /Blu Riband/ BUG
Yes, anyone can make a mistake BUT you still have to be prepared to take responsiblity for it.
If after this strike WW goes for another 30 M savings because of the costs, then these are directly due to the "YES" voters and if they lose allowances/pay, they should accept it is due to their actions and not a vindictive employer.
Will they ? What are your feelings ?
As for your comments about being told what to do by BASSA as a reason for acting this way, well I think I covered that in my second point and my final paragraph.
P.S. The few recent posts addressing this have all emphasised the costs (of alll types) to them of striking and not saying anything about changing their minds concerning the issues.
Yes, anyone can make a mistake BUT you still have to be prepared to take responsiblity for it.
If after this strike WW goes for another 30 M savings because of the costs, then these are directly due to the "YES" voters and if they lose allowances/pay, they should accept it is due to their actions and not a vindictive employer.
Will they ? What are your feelings ?
As for your comments about being told what to do by BASSA as a reason for acting this way, well I think I covered that in my second point and my final paragraph.
P.S. The few recent posts addressing this have all emphasised the costs (of alll types) to them of striking and not saying anything about changing their minds concerning the issues.
Last edited by AlpineSkier; 19th Mar 2010 at 10:52.
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Human Factor
Surely any 'Demonstration' of more than a specified number has to have the prior permission of the relevant Police Authority? If so, has it been requested?
I agree with your prediction. More Plods than Bods.
I agree with your prediction. More Plods than Bods.
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ArkeFly from Holland will be doing some BA Moscow flights , the ArkeFly CEO mentioning "our cabin crew is not on a collective labour agreement and we can do what we want anyway".
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Interesting live programme on BBC Radio 5...tune in.
BBC iPlayer Console - Listen live - BBC Radio 5 live
BBC iPlayer Console - Listen live - BBC Radio 5 live