British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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I just read the latest posting on Unites site regarding the meeting that was supposed to have happened at ACAS 's request on Sunday!
They deny it completely!!!
Who tells the truth???
They deny it completely!!!
Who tells the truth???
Unite: Failure To Attend BA Dispute Talks At ACAS Are False
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Wascrew
Would be amusing Wascrew, but it looks like they have two pitches I'm afraid, unless Google earth is mistaken..
I think it's just a rally point anyway, I cant see them standing about on a pitch all day, there is perhaps a function room there. Who knows?
I think it's just a rally point anyway, I cant see them standing about on a pitch all day, there is perhaps a function room there. Who knows?
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Communications
It's all about communications.
On the web, at one end we have PPRuNe [The Telegraph?] and at the other we have BASSA [The Sun?]. Sun readers don't read, or believe, the Torygraph and vice versa. As a result, the majority of people choose to read what they choose to believe. It's a simple as that.
You could stuff some trade unionists with a year's supply of the Torygraph, but they would never accept it as truth. And it works the other way too. It's a basic fact of life.
As to allegations of lies, distortions, exaggerations, dissing the opposition and all the other stuff being thrown around ... that's exactly what ALL your elected representatives in Parliament did to get there in the first place, assisted by their loyal Party workers who sang from the same hymn sheet.
Frustratingly, it's called democracy. Only when the votes are finally counted [in this case on the strike days] do you ever know whether your "communications" were good enough.
On the web, at one end we have PPRuNe [The Telegraph?] and at the other we have BASSA [The Sun?]. Sun readers don't read, or believe, the Torygraph and vice versa. As a result, the majority of people choose to read what they choose to believe. It's a simple as that.
You could stuff some trade unionists with a year's supply of the Torygraph, but they would never accept it as truth. And it works the other way too. It's a basic fact of life.
As to allegations of lies, distortions, exaggerations, dissing the opposition and all the other stuff being thrown around ... that's exactly what ALL your elected representatives in Parliament did to get there in the first place, assisted by their loyal Party workers who sang from the same hymn sheet.
Frustratingly, it's called democracy. Only when the votes are finally counted [in this case on the strike days] do you ever know whether your "communications" were good enough.
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...and the share price keeps on rising. It's clear to see how the City have predicted this to work out.
Great for my company as we have several AC heading to LHR on Fri night. The only possible losers here are BA CC.
And to the moderates of you I am genuinely concerned. The militant minority, led by the blinkered, self serving few, will screw you.
My only hope is that WW recognises the worth of the decent crew, and rewards you by leaving you on present T's & C's (crew complement reduction exempted) as it would appear he always wanted.
BASSA reps should hang their heads in shame.
Great for my company as we have several AC heading to LHR on Fri night. The only possible losers here are BA CC.
And to the moderates of you I am genuinely concerned. The militant minority, led by the blinkered, self serving few, will screw you.
My only hope is that WW recognises the worth of the decent crew, and rewards you by leaving you on present T's & C's (crew complement reduction exempted) as it would appear he always wanted.
BASSA reps should hang their heads in shame.
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When it comes to the public perception the shame for me is that Unite's name is so well known in connection with this issue whilst BASSA lurks somewhere well out of view.
I would be surprised if 1 in 10 members of the public could tell you who BASSA were.
I would be surprised if 1 in 10 members of the public could tell you who BASSA were.
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Looks like the pension might be sorted which is why the share price is up so much.
LONDON, March 16 (Reuters) - British Airways said it had reached agreement with trade unions on the future of its pension scheme, the first step in addressing its yawning pension deficit.
The news sent shares in the airline up 3.7 percent by 1543 GMT.
BA said on Tuesday that the proposals, whereby members would raise their contributions to maintain their existing benefits, would maintain the airline's current contributions at 330 million pounds ($495 million) a year and avoid the closure of the schemes.
However, the proposals will still need to be accepted by the trustees and the pensions regulator. BA is due to present a recovery plan to the regulator by the end of June.
In December, the company announced its pension deficit had ballooned to 3.7 billion pounds, more than double the amount from a year earlier.
The deal is unrelated to the separate dispute BA is having with the Unite trade union over pay and staffing levels. Most BA cabin crew are planning seven days of strikes before Easter, which has political ramifications in Britain, where a general election must be held by June.
Obviously a larger personal contribution means less money in your pocket at the end of the month.
Regards
LONDON, March 16 (Reuters) - British Airways said it had reached agreement with trade unions on the future of its pension scheme, the first step in addressing its yawning pension deficit.
The news sent shares in the airline up 3.7 percent by 1543 GMT.
BA said on Tuesday that the proposals, whereby members would raise their contributions to maintain their existing benefits, would maintain the airline's current contributions at 330 million pounds ($495 million) a year and avoid the closure of the schemes.
However, the proposals will still need to be accepted by the trustees and the pensions regulator. BA is due to present a recovery plan to the regulator by the end of June.
In December, the company announced its pension deficit had ballooned to 3.7 billion pounds, more than double the amount from a year earlier.
The deal is unrelated to the separate dispute BA is having with the Unite trade union over pay and staffing levels. Most BA cabin crew are planning seven days of strikes before Easter, which has political ramifications in Britain, where a general election must be held by June.
Regards
McCluskey has Risen Without Trace within Unite.
If he wants to get elected, he needs to get his name known to the 1.6 million TU members that have never heard of him.
His sole interest in this dispute is in getting his name known.
The Unite TU members won't know many of the candidates, but they WILL vote for someone they have heard of - not caring about his politics.
As I've said before, his care for BA CC is less than zero - he's using this dispute to get his name known.
(There is some even more boring inter-TU stuff about Len wanting Unite to adopt the G & M strategy of being a "campaigning Union", but you don't want to be bored by that.)
BA CC are being used as part of his publicity and "campaigning".
If he wants to get elected, he needs to get his name known to the 1.6 million TU members that have never heard of him.
His sole interest in this dispute is in getting his name known.
The Unite TU members won't know many of the candidates, but they WILL vote for someone they have heard of - not caring about his politics.
As I've said before, his care for BA CC is less than zero - he's using this dispute to get his name known.
(There is some even more boring inter-TU stuff about Len wanting Unite to adopt the G & M strategy of being a "campaigning Union", but you don't want to be bored by that.)
BA CC are being used as part of his publicity and "campaigning".
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Bassa reps and staff travel
With the cabin crew strike starting this weekend, and staff travel being revoked for those taking part in industrial action, then this week will be the end of staff travel for Miss Malone and all the Bassa reps as they will all be striking.
Or will they all be going sick and changing rosters to keep their staff travel and let the troops lose theirs???.
I hope we don't find its the latter !!!!!
Or will they all be going sick and changing rosters to keep their staff travel and let the troops lose theirs???.
I hope we don't find its the latter !!!!!
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McCluskey
Juan Tugoh wrote:
I have another view of this.
McCluskey always wanted a strike, this is evident after Unite's failed high court action to declare the imposed crew cuts as illegal. It mattered not at all that judge Sir Christopher Holland wrote in his judgement: "... if the new complements materially and fairly contribute to the preservation of BA and more importantly for present purposes job security and pay, how can I condemn the less than extreme changes as unreasonable?"
Unite was going to recommend to cabin crew on their consultative ballot that BA's last proposal be rejected. It is likely that CC would have followed this recommendation, especially as they would have had only a few days at best to consider the proposal.
I believe that McCluskey reckons that the strikes will seriously weaken BA and Willie Walsh, forcing BA back to the negotiating table. Unite could then force BA to reinstate much of the cabin crew cuts.
McCluskey would then be a hero to cabin crew and the Labour movement, which won't do his CV any harm in his bid to become the general secretary of Unite.
I think the reason that the strike was called was just poor judgment. Unite were trying to find a way out of this mess. Derek Simpson asked Willie Walsh for an extension to the strike mandate to allow the members to ballot on BA's final offer. WW agreed contingent on a no strike deal.
Len McClusky, seeing an opportunity to position himself as a union strong man prior to the election of General Secretary of Unite decided to announce strikes anyway. He also announced the BA offer would be put to crew, though not recommended.
Knowing that crew would probably accept the offer, McClusky gambled that Willie Walsh would let the process continue as the result of the consultative ballot "by electronic" means would be in prior to the strikes and so Mr McClusky could announce that the offer had been accepted. He would then have appeared to be both a Union strong man and also a reasonable negotiator. Unite walk away head held high as a union with BASSA intact and Len gets his boost for General Secretary.
Len McClusky, seeing an opportunity to position himself as a union strong man prior to the election of General Secretary of Unite decided to announce strikes anyway. He also announced the BA offer would be put to crew, though not recommended.
Knowing that crew would probably accept the offer, McClusky gambled that Willie Walsh would let the process continue as the result of the consultative ballot "by electronic" means would be in prior to the strikes and so Mr McClusky could announce that the offer had been accepted. He would then have appeared to be both a Union strong man and also a reasonable negotiator. Unite walk away head held high as a union with BASSA intact and Len gets his boost for General Secretary.
McCluskey always wanted a strike, this is evident after Unite's failed high court action to declare the imposed crew cuts as illegal. It mattered not at all that judge Sir Christopher Holland wrote in his judgement: "... if the new complements materially and fairly contribute to the preservation of BA and more importantly for present purposes job security and pay, how can I condemn the less than extreme changes as unreasonable?"
Unite was going to recommend to cabin crew on their consultative ballot that BA's last proposal be rejected. It is likely that CC would have followed this recommendation, especially as they would have had only a few days at best to consider the proposal.
I believe that McCluskey reckons that the strikes will seriously weaken BA and Willie Walsh, forcing BA back to the negotiating table. Unite could then force BA to reinstate much of the cabin crew cuts.
McCluskey would then be a hero to cabin crew and the Labour movement, which won't do his CV any harm in his bid to become the general secretary of Unite.
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Harriett Harman (the wife of UNITE assistant general secretary Jack Dromey) on CH 4 news has just agreed with TCGB that the UNITE strike is shameful and disproportionate.
They are going to have fun at dinner this evening.
They are going to have fun at dinner this evening.
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I don't see exactly how known and active reps who call a strike could possibly avoid losing staff travel, regardless of whether they are actually on days off, or failing to report for duty due to striking.
Unless they take a public course of action to break the strike, I don't expect they will have staff travel beyond Friday night.
Unless they take a public course of action to break the strike, I don't expect they will have staff travel beyond Friday night.
Controversial, moi?
I don't know the real reasons but after the last CC dispute where Unite effectively pulled the rug from under BASSA's feet and agreed a deal with BA BASSA then made a rule change which made it impossible for that to happen again and a strike can only be called or called off by BASSA.
My suspicion is that Unite realise they are all in a hole and would NOT have announced strike dates but that BASSA, run by some very unpleasant individuals wishing to give WW a bloody nose, went ahead and announced strike dates thereby scuppering any deal.
I doubt WW is that bothered because by thwarting a strike he will have been seen to have truly trounced the union and achieved his goals at the same time.
The pilots naively believe that because some of them are volunteering as CC that they will be treated extra well by WW. If they believe that they will believe anything. WW saw off the BALPA in the courts over OpenLies and this whole business will come back to bite them very hard indeed.
Watch this space.
My suspicion is that Unite realise they are all in a hole and would NOT have announced strike dates but that BASSA, run by some very unpleasant individuals wishing to give WW a bloody nose, went ahead and announced strike dates thereby scuppering any deal.
I doubt WW is that bothered because by thwarting a strike he will have been seen to have truly trounced the union and achieved his goals at the same time.
The pilots naively believe that because some of them are volunteering as CC that they will be treated extra well by WW. If they believe that they will believe anything. WW saw off the BALPA in the courts over OpenLies and this whole business will come back to bite them very hard indeed.
Watch this space.
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Certainly union members know more about the status of their own reps.
I'd like to think so. Any rep caught trying to sneak into work or feign illness deserves to be named and shamed.
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Hi Caribbean Boy,
you may well be right. The thing we both seem to agree on is that this is about how Len McClusky is using the BASSA strike action to position himself for the coming election for General Secretary of UNITE. Whether he actually believes the BS he is peddling is a matter of conjecture, but this is certainly naked ambition dressed up as something else entirely.
you may well be right. The thing we both seem to agree on is that this is about how Len McClusky is using the BASSA strike action to position himself for the coming election for General Secretary of UNITE. Whether he actually believes the BS he is peddling is a matter of conjecture, but this is certainly naked ambition dressed up as something else entirely.
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M.Mouse
Really? The ones I've spoken to actually have quite a good handle on how some of this may impact their future disagreements with BA. For example, if they can remove our ST if we strike, then they can do the same to Flight Crew. However, they are volunteering because they believe it's:
a) Necessary to help ensure the survival of BA
and / or
b) BASSA's actions are not appropriate or proportionate
None that I know expect BA to "owe them one".
The pilots naively believe that because some of them are volunteering as CC that they will be treated extra well by WW. If they believe that they will believe anything. WW saw off the BALPA in the courts over OpenLies and this whole business will come back to bite them very hard indeed.
a) Necessary to help ensure the survival of BA
and / or
b) BASSA's actions are not appropriate or proportionate
None that I know expect BA to "owe them one".
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Hi Mickey Mouse,
The pilots don't think they'll be treated 'extra well', they are doubly hacked off at BASSA and UNITE because we can see they are weakening all unions position through their idiocy.
The VCC just want to have an airline to work for in the future.
If the C/C want the same, and I think they do, then the only way I can see for them to regain BA and themselves some credibility, and create a positive impression, is to turn up for work and show that the union does NOT represent the general view.
The less crew at the football match, and the more at T5 and Jubilee, the better for us all - there may even be some positive press comment for a change!
The pilots don't think they'll be treated 'extra well', they are doubly hacked off at BASSA and UNITE because we can see they are weakening all unions position through their idiocy.
The VCC just want to have an airline to work for in the future.
If the C/C want the same, and I think they do, then the only way I can see for them to regain BA and themselves some credibility, and create a positive impression, is to turn up for work and show that the union does NOT represent the general view.
The less crew at the football match, and the more at T5 and Jubilee, the better for us all - there may even be some positive press comment for a change!