British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not just pilots released from fleets not flying during the strike but also baggage handlers, check-in agents, engineers etc in fact staff from all departments in BA. It is also important to remember those cabin crew not striking - they will be the back bone of the crew operating over the strike periods, providing essential experience and guidance for the volunteers, without them this would be very difficult for BA.
If BASSA had played this more honestly and had a genuine dispute with the company, with the "overwhelming" support claimed by UNITE then this strike would would be very different. But as they have lied and connived. misrepresented and sniped, used holocaust iconography and just played it dumb, they have created the situation whereby they cannot win this strike and may well have doomed themselves to be a vastly reduced influence on BA operations.
If BASSA had played this more honestly and had a genuine dispute with the company, with the "overwhelming" support claimed by UNITE then this strike would would be very different. But as they have lied and connived. misrepresented and sniped, used holocaust iconography and just played it dumb, they have created the situation whereby they cannot win this strike and may well have doomed themselves to be a vastly reduced influence on BA operations.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: UK
Age: 69
Posts: 475
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do feel people should just have a little think before posting some of the more hysterical comments about strikes and the effects on passengers.
Striking is a legitimate tool to be used when a dispute cannot be solved. The natural consequences of striking are that customers or a business will be severely disrupted. Thats the whole point. You cannot strke without consequence just as you can't drop bombs without explosions. If you could you would be wasting your time.
The point I want to make is that comments about the effects of striking serve no purpose. The discussion should remain focussed on the merits of the action itself.
Striking is a legitimate tool to be used when a dispute cannot be solved. The natural consequences of striking are that customers or a business will be severely disrupted. Thats the whole point. You cannot strke without consequence just as you can't drop bombs without explosions. If you could you would be wasting your time.
The point I want to make is that comments about the effects of striking serve no purpose. The discussion should remain focussed on the merits of the action itself.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safety Concerns:
I would respectfully disagree with your statement that the comments about the effect of a strike serve no purpose.
In fact, the effects of a strike action are central to the concerns of BA employees and stockholders.
You are correct in that maximum disruption of service is the hoped for effect of BASSA's actions. However, they are not immune from critical commentary regarding the result of their actions.
I would respectfully disagree with your statement that the comments about the effect of a strike serve no purpose.
In fact, the effects of a strike action are central to the concerns of BA employees and stockholders.
You are correct in that maximum disruption of service is the hoped for effect of BASSA's actions. However, they are not immune from critical commentary regarding the result of their actions.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Safety Concerns - you may be wrong with your bomb analogy. For a bomb to go off it requires a fuse to function correctly. There are, of course, consequences precipitated by (strike) actions, but in this case, Mr Walsh has cleverly set in motion a train of events that will probably render UNITE's fuse inoperable- therefore the BASSA bomb will go..... 'phut'. The football field, at Hatton Cross, will be a peculiar place as many BA jets stream overhead. Rest assured the spirit on that pitch will be bitter/vitriolic/hysterical, whilst the spirit 'at work' will be one of solidarity behind Mr Walsh's plans to ensure BA's survival. His strategy, IMHO, will work and, BASSA's 'hold' over the company will be severly weakened after all of this is over.
nurj
nurj
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Thailand
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Striking is a legitimate tool to be used when a dispute cannot be solved.
The fact that certain idiots in BASSA and UNITE have paid no heed to the interests or desires of their members and have royally
things up, you can argue that they are now calling a strike which is legal, but good luck trying to convince people that it's "legitimate".
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: london
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question Are any of the sides speaking about ending this dispute yet?
Or is it all systems go for disruption, because whatever way you look at it,
and fair play to BA for getting 60 percent of the flights away....what about the forty per cent whose travel plans will be a no go?
I truly hope its settled sooner rather than later
Or is it all systems go for disruption, because whatever way you look at it,
and fair play to BA for getting 60 percent of the flights away....what about the forty per cent whose travel plans will be a no go?
I truly hope its settled sooner rather than later
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A question Are any of the sides speaking about ending this dispute yet?
Or is it all systems go for disruption
Or is it all systems go for disruption
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A week is a looooong time, but you can't just switch an airline off, then on, then to 60%. I would submit that given that BA has gone public with Saturday's plan, the momentum is now so large towards mitigating strikers that even if there was a 'last minute' capitulation- it's too late, Saturday, Sunday, Monday and on, is now beyond recovery. The 'Walsh-Meister' continues to stare, 'unblinkingly', at Looney Len and Malone. The majority of BA employees are ready to 'do what it takes' to keep this great company flying in the face of some mis-guided, (very) left wing agenda fixers.
nurj
nurj
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: About to join the A1, UK
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ahem , with respect Safety, a good many CC have no idea about the consequences of striking - BASSA propaganda has seen to that.
IMHO, there is no 'rock solid' reason why this nonsense is going on - other than a power agenda peddled by the Looney Left - the last bastions of 'up the worker' clinging on to a notion that they are the heroes defending workers rights. Len McCluckle and Woodley (ship's steward initially?) are hard-nosed, uber left-wing scouse dockers for goodness sake. Their 'macho posturing' has reached a point where their only chance is to try to defend the relatively 'soft and fluffy' environment of CC, and all in a very disturbing way. Even TCGB disagrees
nurj.
Edited to add - nothing wrong with dockers per se, just these two
IMHO, there is no 'rock solid' reason why this nonsense is going on - other than a power agenda peddled by the Looney Left - the last bastions of 'up the worker' clinging on to a notion that they are the heroes defending workers rights. Len McCluckle and Woodley (ship's steward initially?) are hard-nosed, uber left-wing scouse dockers for goodness sake. Their 'macho posturing' has reached a point where their only chance is to try to defend the relatively 'soft and fluffy' environment of CC, and all in a very disturbing way. Even TCGB disagrees
nurj.
Edited to add - nothing wrong with dockers per se, just these two
Last edited by nurjio; 16th Mar 2010 at 11:12. Reason: Clarification
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Tunbridge Wells
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The cabin crew just like every other worker within BA will be aware of the consequences of their actions.
This drip feeding of drivel they're being fed is damaging and dangerous. I honestly believe that the old adage isn't true when it comes to representation in the best interests of crew - you can fool most of the people most of the time.
I hope and pray people will start finally thinking for themselves and stop seeing themselves as the victims their representatives would have them believe they are.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
News Feed
For the masochists amongst you The Guardian has a live updating feed on the strike and surrounding issues: - BA strike build-up: live updates | News | guardian.co.uk
Enjoy each and every gruesome detail as it happens – oh what a wonderful age we live in where this appears to be the build up in a prize fight ...!
Enjoy each and every gruesome detail as it happens – oh what a wonderful age we live in where this appears to be the build up in a prize fight ...!
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jungles of SW London
Age: 77
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have only been able to hear part of each of the several interviews broadcast on BBC R4 yesterday, but from what I did hear, neither the Unite officers nor the BBC interviewers seemed to know as much as been available on here. For example, if what Carribean Boy reported, now supported by Tiramisu, about what WW was saying at the forum yesterday is true – and why should it not be? – then the behaviour of Unite/McKlusky et al is not only incomprehensible, but possibly actionable. Given the political situation, they should have seen it all coming, but they didn’t.
In radio interviews, all the Unite officers pressed the point about two ballots, each being ‘overwhelming support’ for Industrial Action, although little else. Fair enough, but voting ‘yes’ didn’t make the reasons for IA right or legitimate. Eighty or ninety percent support of something you don’t clearly understand is almost worthless. Is anyone sure that the vast majority of BA CC actually understood what they were voting for? I don’t think they were, not really.
How many posters on here – presumably pilots – have said they had spoken to their crews about the dispute and been shocked and worried by the level of ignorance of the facts? BASSA’s tactic of spinning everything, being ‘economical’ with any company truths and simply blaming everything from Aer Lingus and BA losses to low birth weight babies on Willie Walsh has finally come home to roost.
From what our most erudite CC posters on here – Glamgirl and Ottergirl to name only two, there are many, many others - are saying about talking to frightened and confused Cabin Crew, over the last week or so, it is likely that the level of understanding, because of BASSA rhetoric, is terrifyingly poor.
From just the posts this morning, I have to say I think Safety Concerns, Diplome and Nurjio are all correct in their analysis, although each with a slightly different emphasis. Like the beginning of the first World War, it is probably too late to stop at least the first tranche of IA and from an objective point of view, not even in BA’s interest to do so – unless they are compelled to do so from above.
Roger.
In radio interviews, all the Unite officers pressed the point about two ballots, each being ‘overwhelming support’ for Industrial Action, although little else. Fair enough, but voting ‘yes’ didn’t make the reasons for IA right or legitimate. Eighty or ninety percent support of something you don’t clearly understand is almost worthless. Is anyone sure that the vast majority of BA CC actually understood what they were voting for? I don’t think they were, not really.
How many posters on here – presumably pilots – have said they had spoken to their crews about the dispute and been shocked and worried by the level of ignorance of the facts? BASSA’s tactic of spinning everything, being ‘economical’ with any company truths and simply blaming everything from Aer Lingus and BA losses to low birth weight babies on Willie Walsh has finally come home to roost.
From what our most erudite CC posters on here – Glamgirl and Ottergirl to name only two, there are many, many others - are saying about talking to frightened and confused Cabin Crew, over the last week or so, it is likely that the level of understanding, because of BASSA rhetoric, is terrifyingly poor.
From just the posts this morning, I have to say I think Safety Concerns, Diplome and Nurjio are all correct in their analysis, although each with a slightly different emphasis. Like the beginning of the first World War, it is probably too late to stop at least the first tranche of IA and from an objective point of view, not even in BA’s interest to do so – unless they are compelled to do so from above.
Roger.
A Runyonesque Character
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The South of France ... Not
Age: 74
Posts: 1,209
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Going global
Workers of the world unite - you have nothing to lose but your chains
The ITF’s Civil Aviation Section today reported rising support for the British Airways cabin crew industrial action from their colleagues around the world.
Gabriel Mocho, ITF Civil Aviation Section Secretary stated: “The ITF supports the cabin crew and Bassa/Unite in this dispute. In particular we commend the efforts they have made to find a solution to a conflict which began with the company’s apparent imposition of new working conditions while negotiations were still open.”
“Unfortunately BA management demonstrated their seeming indifference to the deteriorating situation on Friday when they withdrew an offer that might have solved the dispute.”
He continued: “Several unions have already contacted us with messages of support for the cabin crew, together with pledges to provide practical lawful assistance where possible. Unite members have been quick to show solidarity with their colleagues around the world in the past, and they now want to return the favour.”
262 aviation worker trade unions in 123 countries are members of the ITF (International Transport Workers’ Federation).
Gabriel Mocho, ITF Civil Aviation Section Secretary stated: “The ITF supports the cabin crew and Bassa/Unite in this dispute. In particular we commend the efforts they have made to find a solution to a conflict which began with the company’s apparent imposition of new working conditions while negotiations were still open.”
“Unfortunately BA management demonstrated their seeming indifference to the deteriorating situation on Friday when they withdrew an offer that might have solved the dispute.”
He continued: “Several unions have already contacted us with messages of support for the cabin crew, together with pledges to provide practical lawful assistance where possible. Unite members have been quick to show solidarity with their colleagues around the world in the past, and they now want to return the favour.”
262 aviation worker trade unions in 123 countries are members of the ITF (International Transport Workers’ Federation).
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Snas:
Thank you for the link. Will make interesting reading as this situation progresses.
Interesting in that this morning I was thinking of the impact the change in how we receive our news, where we receive our news, and our ability to quickly access information has made this situation much more difficult for groups like Unite/BASSA during times such as these.
Unite/BASSA spokespeople can state something time and time again but there are always those who will quickly correct, and the incorrect message no longer sits for a day soaking in until tomorrow's newspapers arrive.
It certainly reinforces the need for organizations to speak carefully and accurately or risk looking foolish.
Thank you for the link. Will make interesting reading as this situation progresses.
Interesting in that this morning I was thinking of the impact the change in how we receive our news, where we receive our news, and our ability to quickly access information has made this situation much more difficult for groups like Unite/BASSA during times such as these.
Unite/BASSA spokespeople can state something time and time again but there are always those who will quickly correct, and the incorrect message no longer sits for a day soaking in until tomorrow's newspapers arrive.
It certainly reinforces the need for organizations to speak carefully and accurately or risk looking foolish.
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Surrey
Posts: 471
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The majority of BA employees are ready to 'do what it takes' to keep this great company flying in the face of some mis-guided, (very) left wing agenda fixers
For those in doubt, the PCCC members will be flying on all Strike days. So why not come and joins us in CRC and Jubilee House.
Coming to work isn't that bad you know, you get paid. But in not turning up, no one knows what the consequences will be.
Though right now I am prepared to work for free in Backing BA on all strike days to get our passengers from A to B.
PS: Nurjio, I love your bomb analogy, very funny indeed especially the 'phut' bit!
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal thoughts and not those of BA.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The ITF’s Civil Aviation Section today reported rising support for the British Airways cabin crew industrial action from their colleagues around the world.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Age: 64
Posts: 3,586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm BA cabin crew and the above are my personal thoughts and not those of BA.