British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk VI
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But I'm still going to go into work, nevertheless, after all, I would be letting the bullies win if I did not and I can't do that.
This weeks' events have been quite appalling, even by BASSA standards. A porn site created by a BASSA rep, the naming (there is absolutely no shame involved) of volunteers by text and also a full list posted on CrewForum, a full A4 flyer sent out to their members about PCCC having meetings in Waterside before Christmas.
Now they are using CrewForum to say that PCCC is phoning and harassing people. We do not have phone numbers, and anyone who is on our mailing list will know that we have not phoned them, and will know that this is not true.The only thing that I can say about all of this, is that they have proved beyond reasonable doubt that they have absolutely no ability to discuss or debate anything. They can't negotiate with BA, so they walk out of meetings. They can't agee with Amicus, so they fight. They can't debate the facts with PCCC so they send out slanderous and libellous flyers. They can't counter the volunteer programme so they name people on text messages. Their depravity knows no bounds, so I agree with Atlas that it is a worry for people who want to work.
But let's be clear. The police will not tolerate this in any shape or form. It will be fairly easy to get to work in T5 - just come in in civvies like a passenger and get changed when you get there. We will all stick together, and there will be safety in numbers.
With regard to SCCMs being volunteers, I have no problem whatsoever with this. Whoever is in charge on the day gets my respect as they will have been selected for that position, just as much as anyone else who currently does it has. If they are a Captain or FO, then they are always first in the chain of command anyway, so does it really matter which side of the FD door they are operating on? Not for me it doesn't. I am sure they will all have been chosen for their leadership skills, and they will be able to draw on the resources of the crew they are working with to provide an excellent service
.So it may not be a party. But it will be a breath of fresh air to work alongside like-minded colleagues who want to be there, and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep our company flying. Onwards and upwards, as they say!
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Latest from the PCCC
5 February 2010
Dear Amicus and BASSA reps at LHR and LGW,
We are writing to you from one cabin crew colleague to another to state quite clearly that we bear no grudges against you. We are exactly who we say we are: cabin crew who want an end to this ongoing Industrial Relations dispute that is causing immense anxiety and stress within our community. We strongly disagree with the need to strike and therefore we are voicing our serious concerns over the drastic and unnecessary actions that Unite have taken, which could ultimately cost us our jobs. In the democratic society in which we live, that is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
We refer to your flyer sent to members today entitled BA – You are Busted, and we would kindly ask that you refrain from these ridiculous and false allegations that we are management, pilots, or even “misguided cabin crew romanced by BA”. We are not, and the reality is that you know that we are not. At some point, we will stand testament to this fact by revealing our identity: that of cabin crew. If you carry on with these fabricated stories it is going to prove to be a huge embarrassment to Unite when we do.
Additionally we would hope that you would spend your members’ time and money on more productive things than producing an A4 flyer that is complete and utter fabrication. Some of us were in Madrid before Christmas – Madrid in Spain not Waterside.
Our only connection with BA is that, like everybody else, they are our employer. They have asked the cabin crew community to work a bit harder onboard and they have not reduced our pay in any way. We the Professional Cabin Crew Council feel very strongly that they have acted fairly throughout this dispute, and that in the current economic climate, that is not an unreasonable request.
The primary aim of the Professional Cabin Crew Council at this point in time is to save our company, protect our jobs and restore the battered reputation that now tarnishes our community caused by this untenable situation.
The events this week have been entirely distasteful, offensive and completely unprofessional. We trust that you will now draw a line under attacking us and our right to speak out, and that you start to make better use of the funds entrusted to you by your members.
Yours sincerely,
The PCCC Team
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
Dear Amicus and BASSA reps at LHR and LGW,
We are writing to you from one cabin crew colleague to another to state quite clearly that we bear no grudges against you. We are exactly who we say we are: cabin crew who want an end to this ongoing Industrial Relations dispute that is causing immense anxiety and stress within our community. We strongly disagree with the need to strike and therefore we are voicing our serious concerns over the drastic and unnecessary actions that Unite have taken, which could ultimately cost us our jobs. In the democratic society in which we live, that is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.
We refer to your flyer sent to members today entitled BA – You are Busted, and we would kindly ask that you refrain from these ridiculous and false allegations that we are management, pilots, or even “misguided cabin crew romanced by BA”. We are not, and the reality is that you know that we are not. At some point, we will stand testament to this fact by revealing our identity: that of cabin crew. If you carry on with these fabricated stories it is going to prove to be a huge embarrassment to Unite when we do.
Additionally we would hope that you would spend your members’ time and money on more productive things than producing an A4 flyer that is complete and utter fabrication. Some of us were in Madrid before Christmas – Madrid in Spain not Waterside.
Our only connection with BA is that, like everybody else, they are our employer. They have asked the cabin crew community to work a bit harder onboard and they have not reduced our pay in any way. We the Professional Cabin Crew Council feel very strongly that they have acted fairly throughout this dispute, and that in the current economic climate, that is not an unreasonable request.
The primary aim of the Professional Cabin Crew Council at this point in time is to save our company, protect our jobs and restore the battered reputation that now tarnishes our community caused by this untenable situation.
The events this week have been entirely distasteful, offensive and completely unprofessional. We trust that you will now draw a line under attacking us and our right to speak out, and that you start to make better use of the funds entrusted to you by your members.
Yours sincerely,
The PCCC Team
www.professionalcrewcouncil.com
[email protected]
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Hiflyer,
Respect from a SLF who has nil interest in this matter other than understanding how this battle structure works.
I fail to understand how come the British press has not jumped on top of stories such as the fake website and it's link to Bassa, the texting or posting of lists on the Bassa forum of volunteers. Especially given the fact that reporters are alleged to stroll this forum regularly. Does it mean even the press is divided to the same extreme on both sides of the fence?
The mentality of Bassa is in my opinion of a different era, perhaps seventies or before.
Not just due to the economic crisis, but also from the perspective of the failures of hard capitalism and communism.
Their stance in my view is for short term gain, but the union seems to be able to paint such a scary picture of some vague future that too many voters seems to see no alternative but to vote FOR a strike.
Those people should think back to the Great British Empire and its demise over many decades. This too was, in part, due to the bipolar British class and political system, and the hard attitude of Bassa in my view is an old appendicitis of this.
It seems it is time for a change. Fingers crossed that WW will not settle the dispute and allow Bassa to fight another day. Having come this far, i would be disappointed.
I wish you good luck with your council!
Respect from a SLF who has nil interest in this matter other than understanding how this battle structure works.
I fail to understand how come the British press has not jumped on top of stories such as the fake website and it's link to Bassa, the texting or posting of lists on the Bassa forum of volunteers. Especially given the fact that reporters are alleged to stroll this forum regularly. Does it mean even the press is divided to the same extreme on both sides of the fence?
The mentality of Bassa is in my opinion of a different era, perhaps seventies or before.
Not just due to the economic crisis, but also from the perspective of the failures of hard capitalism and communism.
Their stance in my view is for short term gain, but the union seems to be able to paint such a scary picture of some vague future that too many voters seems to see no alternative but to vote FOR a strike.
Those people should think back to the Great British Empire and its demise over many decades. This too was, in part, due to the bipolar British class and political system, and the hard attitude of Bassa in my view is an old appendicitis of this.
It seems it is time for a change. Fingers crossed that WW will not settle the dispute and allow Bassa to fight another day. Having come this far, i would be disappointed.
I wish you good luck with your council!
Last edited by vanHorck; 6th Feb 2010 at 10:02. Reason: typo
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Sticking together
Highflyer 14,
That was a great post and I'm with you all the way.
If my earlier posts were interpreted that breaking the strike will be some form of mass celebration, let me correct that. I think its very very sad, that BASSA have failed to represent it's members affectively and have stooped to the levels eloquently outlined by Highflyer.
What I was trying to say was that now we are where we are, despite the fact it will obviously feel daunting for current crew to come to work, they can expect a lot of support from those around them on the day and I do feel the passengers will be very grateful and respectful for what we are doing.
This will certainly be a particular priority of mine should it come to it on the day.
That was a great post and I'm with you all the way.
If my earlier posts were interpreted that breaking the strike will be some form of mass celebration, let me correct that. I think its very very sad, that BASSA have failed to represent it's members affectively and have stooped to the levels eloquently outlined by Highflyer.
What I was trying to say was that now we are where we are, despite the fact it will obviously feel daunting for current crew to come to work, they can expect a lot of support from those around them on the day and I do feel the passengers will be very grateful and respectful for what we are doing.
This will certainly be a particular priority of mine should it come to it on the day.
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I was watching Andrew Marrs History of Britain on BBC2 last night. It was about the seventies and I was struck by the similarities. Hard line Miners, supported by hardline Longbridge workers. Where are they now?
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AtlasDrawer
Implicit in your question is a very big assumption. What has led you to believe that strikers will be returning to BA at all?
This is a safety critical environment in which we find ourselves. The behaviour you are worried about cannot possibly be tolerated. I have little doubt that strikers will be sacked. BA is already well advanced in the recruitment of their replacements.
Come mid March, the people you are flying with will not include anyone who struck!
Sadly for some of our colleagues, they are now entering their last 4 weeks of employment with BA.
What happens when the strikers are let back to work, and make life pretty unpleasant for us non-strikers/vols?
This is a safety critical environment in which we find ourselves. The behaviour you are worried about cannot possibly be tolerated. I have little doubt that strikers will be sacked. BA is already well advanced in the recruitment of their replacements.
Come mid March, the people you are flying with will not include anyone who struck!
Sadly for some of our colleagues, they are now entering their last 4 weeks of employment with BA.
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How Could Those Analysts Be So Wrong?
I mean, £100m error? The factors that they say affected this drop from £150m to £50m should have been foreseen, shouldn't they? I mean, is't that what analysts do?
Another point that somebody posted in Mk V thread. BA have paid in £1.3b into the pension pot over the last three years and if you strip out some items from the announcement, including pension contributions, then an actual operating profit was made.
I know these are just numbers and I am no money man, but it all seems just a bit strange, but I am sure I will be corrected by my learned Prunions.
Another point that somebody posted in Mk V thread. BA have paid in £1.3b into the pension pot over the last three years and if you strip out some items from the announcement, including pension contributions, then an actual operating profit was made.
I know these are just numbers and I am no money man, but it all seems just a bit strange, but I am sure I will be corrected by my learned Prunions.
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With regard to SCCMs being volunteers, I have no problem whatsoever with this. Whoever is in charge on the day gets my respect as they will have been selected for that position, just as much as anyone else who currently does it has. If they are a Captain or FO, then they are always first in the chain of command anyway, so does it really matter which side of the FD door they are operating on? Not for me it doesn't. I am sure they will all have been chosen for their leadership skills, and they will be able to draw on the resources of the crew they are working with to provide an excellent service
.
So it may not be a party. But it will be a breath of fresh air to work alongside like-minded colleagues who want to be there, and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep our company flying. Onwards and upwards, as they say!
.So it may not be a party. But it will be a breath of fresh air to work alongside like-minded colleagues who want to be there, and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep our company flying. Onwards and upwards, as they say!
I could not have put it better.
As a SCCM myself, I completely agree with you.
For cabin crew wishing to come to work in the event of IA like myself, you can now volunteer through 'My Opportunities' on the ESS page of the BA Intranet.
Last edited by Tiramisu; 6th Feb 2010 at 09:43.
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Pensions
Litebulbs,
You can't strip out pension costs and claim BA would make a profit if it didn't meet it's contractual commitment to it's employees. Its the same as saying BA would make £2bn profit a year if it didn't pay anyone wages. You need employees to perform their role to operate an airline. The costs of their services are part of the operating costs before calculating operating profits. It is just the same with fuel costs.
The accountants know what they are doing and they are checked by the external auditors. After that, you have all of the city analysts who represent the larger share holders they plough through the figures as well. There is no conspiracy here.
CB
You can't strip out pension costs and claim BA would make a profit if it didn't meet it's contractual commitment to it's employees. Its the same as saying BA would make £2bn profit a year if it didn't pay anyone wages. You need employees to perform their role to operate an airline. The costs of their services are part of the operating costs before calculating operating profits. It is just the same with fuel costs.
The accountants know what they are doing and they are checked by the external auditors. After that, you have all of the city analysts who represent the larger share holders they plough through the figures as well. There is no conspiracy here.
CB
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Thanks for letting us know about the volunteer list, Tiramisu. I have just logged on, and although I can access all other parts of ESS I cannot get onto My Opportunities; it's just taking too long. No worries, I'll try again later and offer my services for days off, and any other time I may be required.
Can we deduce from this though that too many people are logged on, trying to volunteer?
So, SNAS, although yesterday I thought your 72% yes vote was fairly accurate, I'd now like to revise it to about 65%.
Staff travel, it appears, is quite a perk
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Can we deduce from this though that too many people are logged on, trying to volunteer?
So, SNAS, although yesterday I thought your 72% yes vote was fairly accurate, I'd now like to revise it to about 65%.Staff travel, it appears, is quite a perk
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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The way I understood the pensions payment of £1.3b, was that it was overpayments made to remedy the deficits in the two plans. If my understanding is wrong, then thank you for correcting me, but I was only making my assumptions after reading this -
British Airways: BA Reports £50m Loss Amid Falling Passenger Numbers And Strike Threats | Business | Sky News
British Airways: BA Reports £50m Loss Amid Falling Passenger Numbers And Strike Threats | Business | Sky News
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4468:
I ask this question because, historically, strikers have always been let back to work eventually. And it seems to be the assumption on Bassa Forum ( and I think CF) that the strikers will return. Although, if memory serves me correctly, the union and BA would have to reach an agreement (and it seems there is no chance of that happening at the moment) before coming back to work .
HiFlyer - so there is list on CrewForum now, why on earth has it not been taken down? I can't help thinking they are all going a bit too far now. But I do not know what to do about it.
Just running through scenarios in my head, I guess.
AD
Implicit in your question is a very big assumption. What has led you to believe that strikers will be returning to BA at all?
HiFlyer - so there is list on CrewForum now, why on earth has it not been taken down? I can't help thinking they are all going a bit too far now. But I do not know what to do about it.
Just running through scenarios in my head, I guess.
AD
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News Item
Just a quick post, I just read this on the Guardian site and it looks like there could be light at the end of the tunnel.. I do hope it's true
What are you're thoughts?
Walsh upbeat about averting strike as BA posts surprise profit | Business | guardian.co.uk
What are you're thoughts?
Walsh upbeat about averting strike as BA posts surprise profit | Business | guardian.co.uk
So the Gorniad uses the P word in it's headline and the Mail uses the "L" word, 
( mindyou, I wouldn't pay a penny for either)..
British Airways' £50m loss smaller-than-expected | Mail Online
( mindyou, I wouldn't pay a penny for either)..British Airways' £50m loss smaller-than-expected | Mail Online
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)So there's £240m/year being paid year on year which comes straight off the bottom line, and that's not going to change. (Ideally for us that would increase but BA have already said they can't afford it).
So, as mentioned above, you can't strip necessary costs like pension contributions out of the profit/loss account and say 'we're profitable if you don't include .....' The only way to reduce losses or make profits is to reduce unnecessary costs.
That's what WW is trying to do now.
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The way I understood the pensions payment of £1.3b, was that it was overpayments made to remedy the deficits in the two plans
Clearly an operating profit is good. It means we fundamentally have a reasonably good company (cost vs revenue). However just like in your household if your wages cover bills (heating/mortgage/food/going out etc) but not the intrest on loans or taxes then you will eventually go bankrupt (even if like BA you borrowed for a short period in the hope of improvement in income). To extend the metaphor you may even look for ways to cut costs (cheaper suppliers/less staff (cleaner?)/smaller car etc). This is what BA are doing It is not personal. Each dept had a target (it would be unreasonable to save all your cost overspend at home only by buying cheaper groceries, you need to make the savings from all areas). Frankly WW does not care if you are cabin crew/pilot/anything else. Only that his savings are made to put the "house" in order.
BASSAs initial position was no negotiation on perm cost savings, that has left IFCE with a bigger target and imposition. All other areas engaged in the discussion and shaped their cost savings. Why did BASSA not do this?
I have not volunteered yet but every untruth and attack on the people of BA nudges me towards it.
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What is wrong with the reps at BASSA? Their body language speaks volumes for their inability to hold a sensible argument - without resorting to the tactics of past communists, KGB and any number of organisations, long dead who beat and bullied those who would not play by their 'rules.' They have used all the ingredients of past unions who could not get their way.
What is wrong with BASSA? Why cannot it not recognise that it has lost and that their last ditch attempts to retrieve the situation have gone belly up. Time for them to give up a lost angry cause that serves no-ones purpose but their own.
What is it about BASSA that they don't understand what FO means?
Time to go home and get your feet up!
What is wrong with BASSA? Why cannot it not recognise that it has lost and that their last ditch attempts to retrieve the situation have gone belly up. Time for them to give up a lost angry cause that serves no-ones purpose but their own.
What is it about BASSA that they don't understand what FO means?
Time to go home and get your feet up!
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Litebulbs
Ref the pensions document, I'm not sure which bit you're emphasising.
The document is very sobering in highlighting the parlous state of pension schemes in the FTSE 350, but also the rate of increase in deficits etc.
Ref the pensions document, I'm not sure which bit you're emphasising.
The document is very sobering in highlighting the parlous state of pension schemes in the FTSE 350, but also the rate of increase in deficits etc.