British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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This strike threat is a dead duck.
How many are going to strike when they know they will lose their staff travel concessions PERMANENTLY if they strike!
How many will strike when they know that there are more redundant crew waiting in the wings to take their job, all trained with other airlines.
PCC is the way forward to proper grown up negotiations.
How many are going to strike when they know they will lose their staff travel concessions PERMANENTLY if they strike!
How many will strike when they know that there are more redundant crew waiting in the wings to take their job, all trained with other airlines.
PCC is the way forward to proper grown up negotiations.
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From a 'punter'!
I have been following this forum for some time now, and have sometimes felt the urge to respond to some of the posts, but resisted. However, the tone of A Lurker's posts last night have pushed me over the edge! I note that they have now been removed, so some sane person obviously agreed that they were not suitable for a public forum.
I am not crew and therefore expect to have the 'usual' backlash from Lurker and his ilk, but my interest is threefold - as ex-BA staff who still has feelings of loyalty and affiliation to BA, as the spouse of current BA staff - whose livelihood is at risk from this potential strike - and as a paying business customer through my current employment. I was horrified at the tone of Lurker's posts, at his complete disregard for his fellow BA colleagues, and his disdain for the paying customers. Does he not realise how objectionable he sounds, and how disgusted some of those paying customers may feel by the total disdain some crew apparently feel for them.
I find it somewhat ironic when crew complain that they are not respected - does this kind of mindless vitriol command respect? In the real world, respect has to be earned. I suggest that Lurker et al come out of their bubble and get into the real world. You ARE putting other peoples jobs and livelihoods at risk with this crazy action. It really does feel 'back to the 70s' with the hard line attitude of BASSA.
I do hope that some of your posters are correct, and that BA does come through this without terminal damage.
I only hope that the customers who are leaving for other airlines with the attitude ABBA (and I personally know a number) decide to return.
Good luck to all those sane crew, and I am sure there are many, who have the courage to stand up to this destructive bunch.
I am not crew and therefore expect to have the 'usual' backlash from Lurker and his ilk, but my interest is threefold - as ex-BA staff who still has feelings of loyalty and affiliation to BA, as the spouse of current BA staff - whose livelihood is at risk from this potential strike - and as a paying business customer through my current employment. I was horrified at the tone of Lurker's posts, at his complete disregard for his fellow BA colleagues, and his disdain for the paying customers. Does he not realise how objectionable he sounds, and how disgusted some of those paying customers may feel by the total disdain some crew apparently feel for them.
I find it somewhat ironic when crew complain that they are not respected - does this kind of mindless vitriol command respect? In the real world, respect has to be earned. I suggest that Lurker et al come out of their bubble and get into the real world. You ARE putting other peoples jobs and livelihoods at risk with this crazy action. It really does feel 'back to the 70s' with the hard line attitude of BASSA.
I do hope that some of your posters are correct, and that BA does come through this without terminal damage.
I only hope that the customers who are leaving for other airlines with the attitude ABBA (and I personally know a number) decide to return.
Good luck to all those sane crew, and I am sure there are many, who have the courage to stand up to this destructive bunch.
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If for some reason the membership vote NO .I wonder what the next lot of BASSA spin will be ....YOUR the membership we are YOUR union we LISTEN to what YOU say ...YOU are the voice BASSA is YOUR future BASSA RESPECTS the membership ...YOU don't want to go on strike we will NOT go on strike ...YOU have spoken......Oh and thanks very much for getting BASSA out of this big 
mess 
mess
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Please don't bankrupt BA out of spite; not very British old bean...
Le Pouquelaye asked....
What......these ones?.....
A Lurker spewed...
...how vile and justly damaging to your 'cause'
....but we're going on Strike no matter what the British Legal System decrees!!
...still hate-preaching against those PILOTS eh?
....NOW HE'S HAVING A GO AT WOMEN!!! Sounds to me like these women are twice the man you are! Metaphorically speaking of course.
....dodgy ethics
When asked if his contract LEGALLY requires him to inform his EMPLOYER of his CONTRACTUALLY BREACHING moonlighting, he replies....
....notice how he avoids saying that he thinks they are NOT crew, just that he has yet to see one thing that they are going to DO for the crew!! He, like everyone else, has read this thread, and the posts of the PCC members, and CANNOT in any honest or honourable light for one second deny that these posters, Glamgirl, Tiramisu etc, are GENUINE BA CABIN CREW!!! To do so would surely expose yourself as a CAD and a FRAUD, anyone on here can see that! So next the goading....
....pathetically childish attempt to get the PCC to present themselves for the standard BASSA bullying/harassment/threatening/abuse....
....how nice for you to have a financial storm-break against the armageddon you so clearly crave.....how many of your 'fellow' comrades/colleagues that BASSAs video claim only earn £1100-£1400 p.c.m can say the same?
Incidentally, how STUPID of your 'professional' Industrial 'relations' muppets to publicly use such OBVIOUSLY incorrect and misleading figures and statements in its video, HA HA HA!!! Is there no limit to this regime's seemingly inbuilt ability to deliver statement after statement of SELF-DAMAGING, SELF-RIDICULING, SELF-IMPLICATING own-foot-shooting, then foot-in-mouth-stuffing TRIPE?!!!
....desperation
....them bullying and ever so RICH pilots again. If you're in any way serious about this allegation, why not speak to the Moderators, they're good people? They have access to ALL posts, ALL Private Messages and ALL private details......if this REALLY is bullying/blackmail/attempted murder (and not, as I suspect, Cot-based Toy-ejection due lack of sensible answers to sensible questions) then surely you can trust them to do the best by you and take decisive and effective action.
If your claims are true, then we will all stand by you and support this individual's ejection from the site, the behaviour to which you allude should not and will not be tolerated, not here.....or are you crying wolf?
A Lurker makes his "final" appearance on this site - rather like an elderly opera diva making a series of "positively her last appearance" gigs.
Why do I have the impression we have not seen the last of A Lurker?
More to the point, why did he remove his oh-so contentious messages of yesterday evening from this forum?
Why do I have the impression we have not seen the last of A Lurker?
More to the point, why did he remove his oh-so contentious messages of yesterday evening from this forum?
What......these ones?.....
A Lurker spewed...
Unless you have something to add of relevance dont add it - you know nothing of BA because you are just a punter - dont ever forget that
We are striking due to contractual changes and impositions being imposed by British Airways (since November) which we believe are in breach of the contract between British Airways and ourselves. A High Court case will decide on the 1st February if these changes are indeed contractual.
Lol - you really are funny - I am actually not objectionable - I generally debate without rhetoric however given the vitriol which myself and fellow Cabin Crew members have been subjected to over the last few weeks - I have finally snapped and I have had enough of the tactics of BA and the Pilots on this forum who on a daily basis denegrate fellow workers and colleagues.
And to me the final insult is a group of women setting up a 'council' to have cosy chats with BA - what an absolute joke.
I earn more outside BA than I do plate laying My accountant is excellent at offsetting my business 'loss' lol - against any tax I have to pay (or had to pay over the preceding years whilst I set up) - sole trading you see - dont go limited mate - not worth the hassle
When asked if his contract LEGALLY requires him to inform his EMPLOYER of his CONTRACTUALLY BREACHING moonlighting, he replies....
I doubt it very much - and who cares? Lol - I don't!
You have been exposed as a management 'stool pigeon' - no doubt you will say you are not - but in all the postings made on here I am yet to see one thing you are going to do for the crew!
Thats all very brave when none of you even have the guts to say who you are?
My guess is that none of you are Cabin Crew and I will keep that belief until you have the guts to say who you are and who you represent.
My guess is that none of you are Cabin Crew and I will keep that belief until you have the guts to say who you are and who you represent.
I have just re-mortgaged for £20K and bought a franchise in my local area.
Incidentally, how STUPID of your 'professional' Industrial 'relations' muppets to publicly use such OBVIOUSLY incorrect and misleading figures and statements in its video, HA HA HA!!! Is there no limit to this regime's seemingly inbuilt ability to deliver statement after statement of SELF-DAMAGING, SELF-RIDICULING, SELF-IMPLICATING own-foot-shooting, then foot-in-mouth-stuffing TRIPE?!!!
I am now prepared to see this through to whatever conclusion and I cannot wait
That is it - I have had it on here.
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and personal email address from this forum has made veiled threats against me (as in I suggest you tell BA ASAP ) - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
A Pilot who has access to my personal details and personal email address from this forum has made veiled threats against me (as in I suggest you tell BA ASAP ) - I am no longer going to visit this forum or engage in debate as I think that personal blackmail is going a stage too far.
See you in the next life
If your claims are true, then we will all stand by you and support this individual's ejection from the site, the behaviour to which you allude should not and will not be tolerated, not here.....or are you crying wolf?
Last edited by flybymerchant; 27th Jan 2010 at 10:46.
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Indeed. IMHO, bassa are being isolated like never before. The youtube video is very weak and uses emotion not fact to peddle a very poor message. They continue to nail their own coffin lid with stuff like this.
That all said, my concern is this. bassa has painted itself into a corner, and with that will come, eventually, their final play. Striking will not work, so they will be dreaming up their end game. As bassa are not under total control of UNITE, regardless of UNITE top brass advice, they might do something very stupid/daft as their last roll of the dice - what that might be, I have no idea, but it concerns me. One course of action would be to admit they were wrong to pursue such an idiotic course of action during the worst recession since records began.
Miss Lizanne Malone is, as I understand it, still being trumpeted as the last bastion of democracy as she stands firm against the BA LT. Hats off to her for an ability to withdraw into a bunker to conduct business - whilst outside, in the day-to-day survival effort, a real sense of collective purpose from across the BA workforce is being fostered -a purpose that will go a hell of a long way to help breathe new life into cross-profression relationships.... all, I repeat, IMHO of course.
GF
That all said, my concern is this. bassa has painted itself into a corner, and with that will come, eventually, their final play. Striking will not work, so they will be dreaming up their end game. As bassa are not under total control of UNITE, regardless of UNITE top brass advice, they might do something very stupid/daft as their last roll of the dice - what that might be, I have no idea, but it concerns me. One course of action would be to admit they were wrong to pursue such an idiotic course of action during the worst recession since records began.
Miss Lizanne Malone is, as I understand it, still being trumpeted as the last bastion of democracy as she stands firm against the BA LT. Hats off to her for an ability to withdraw into a bunker to conduct business - whilst outside, in the day-to-day survival effort, a real sense of collective purpose from across the BA workforce is being fostered -a purpose that will go a hell of a long way to help breathe new life into cross-profression relationships.... all, I repeat, IMHO of course.
GF
Last edited by IYCSWICSWICW; 27th Jan 2010 at 11:02.
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Get out of this one love!
"The Defence calls......Lala Malone to the stand!"
ALLEGEDLY they could supoena her under the Anti-terrorism Act, although claims she will be investigated for War Crimes are unequivocally and categorically untrue, I can't emphasise the fallacy of that enough....
If found guilty, she will, however, BY LAW, have, in future and in perpetuity, to ALWAYS be referred to in the PRESS, as 'Truth Terrorist Malone'...allegedly and unfoundedly
sigh.....bring back Lurker, it's not the same without him! ALL IS FORGIVEN OLD CHUM!
ALLEGEDLY they could supoena her under the Anti-terrorism Act, although claims she will be investigated for War Crimes are unequivocally and categorically untrue, I can't emphasise the fallacy of that enough....
If found guilty, she will, however, BY LAW, have, in future and in perpetuity, to ALWAYS be referred to in the PRESS, as 'Truth Terrorist Malone'...allegedly and unfoundedly
sigh.....bring back Lurker, it's not the same without him! ALL IS FORGIVEN OLD CHUM!
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IATA Air Traffic Figures
FYI latest IATA numbers (for December), by way of background to the debate on the health, or otherwise of BA and others. Two facts stand out:
Airline Traffic Drop ?Worst Ever,? Fare Rebound Slow, IATA Says - Bloomberg.com
- Passengers numbers were down a record amount in 2009
- December passenger numbers continued to fall in Europe and the US, even as numbers rose in Asia and Mid East (very strong receovery there)
Airline Traffic Drop ?Worst Ever,? Fare Rebound Slow, IATA Says - Bloomberg.com
Last edited by JayPee28bpr; 27th Jan 2010 at 11:25. Reason: Spelling
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Absent Friends?
I notice that the Department of Transport website Annex D - List of consultees
lists the following trades union organisations:
Amicus
Association of Flight Attendants
British Airline Pilots Association
British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association
Cabin Crew 89
International Transport Workers Federation
Transport and General Workers Union
Trades Union Congress
Can someone please enlighten us on the "Association of Flight Attendants" and its role(if any) in the current dispute?
lists the following trades union organisations:
Amicus
Association of Flight Attendants
British Airline Pilots Association
British Airlines Stewards and Stewardesses Association
Cabin Crew 89
International Transport Workers Federation
Transport and General Workers Union
Trades Union Congress
Can someone please enlighten us on the "Association of Flight Attendants" and its role(if any) in the current dispute?
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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By "Association of Flight Attendants", I presume you mean PCC.
I would suggest that their current role in the dispute is minimal but they may well have a greater role once it's all over and BASSA have been removed as a force.
I would suggest that their current role in the dispute is minimal but they may well have a greater role once it's all over and BASSA have been removed as a force.
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Association of Flight Attendants
Thanks for your prompt responses, deeceethree and Human Factor.
Apparently, the "Association of Flight Attendants" is a trade union in its own right, and has no connection with the nascent PCC(C). According to its website Association of Flight Attendants UK it has 632 members.
My question is whether the "Association of Flight Attendants" has any members working for BA and, if so, what part they are playing in the current industrial dispute.
Apparently, the "Association of Flight Attendants" is a trade union in its own right, and has no connection with the nascent PCC(C). According to its website Association of Flight Attendants UK it has 632 members.
My question is whether the "Association of Flight Attendants" has any members working for BA and, if so, what part they are playing in the current industrial dispute.
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my reponse to the poorly produced, youtube video made by untie:
YouTube - The Truth - BA cabin crew put their case
Time to put the record straight & refute some of UNITE/BASSA ‘truths’ here:
“FACT: BA have reduced crew numbers by between one and three per flight. This will impact on the level of service to customers”.
TRUTH: Crew have worked “one down” for years. This attracted a significant one-down payment. BASSA never had a cause to complain when crew were hosed down with cash to do so. Also, to clear it up, the previous claim that working without the extra crew member affects safety is also usual BASSA tripe, they’ve been doing it for years - it was never less safe then. Funny what hard cash can do to ‘principles’.
“FACT: Cabin crew are prepared to make sacrifices. Unite proposed over £100m in annual savings.”
TRUTH: No they didn’t did they! They proposed a poorly thought out TEMPORARY solution, not PERMANENT as requested by BA. Which was INDEPENDENTLY audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers to be worth £52m.
UNITE’s latest proposal actually INCREASES crewing levels onboard and proposes a cap on First class passengers and closing off zones in the cabin until crewing levels have been returned to last year’s levels! Priceless!
“FACT: Contrary to press reports, BA cabin crew do not earn a fortune. 75% earn a basic salary of £20000”
TRUTH: BASSA/UNITE have ‘conveniently’ missed a rather critical bit of information here too as it doesn’t suit their argument. BA cabin crew (especially those at LHR) have a rather lucrative allowances structure earning such things as: box payments/meal allowances/telephone allowances/cat lounge payments/working one down payments) in total these things amount to £12K on European routes out of LHR and £16K on Longhaul routes. So err, that means for the 75% of crew that BASSA/UNITE claim earn a basic pay of £20000, they ACTUALLY earn a gross salary of £32000 on s/h and £36000. LGW crew (who have been conveniently wheeled out for this argument earn HALF what their LHR counterparts do as BASSA/UNITE fed LGW to the sharks many years ago to protect fortress Heathrow. That is now coming home to roost. LGW perform the same service onboard the aircraft & have operated to MUCH reduced crewing levels than at LHR with UNITE/BASSA’s approval for many years!!
“FACT: Cabin crew believe BA should continue to be a premium service carrier”
So do BA. But even if BA didn’t, it’s not BASSA/UNITE’s decision to rule how the airline’s business plan should look/run. Their job is to represent cabin crew, BA’s job is to run a very large company.
FACT: BA cabin crew do not want to strike. They want a negotiated settlement. They are proud of their airline and want a future. Cabin crew care, negotiation not imposition
TRUTH: BASSA/UNITE were given a deadline back in the beginning of 2009 for coming up with the required savings. The deadline was JUNE 2009. After wasting that time by refusing to sign confidentiality agreements to openly view/audit the company accounts as BALPA did, BASSA/UNITE were given till NOVEMBER 2009 to try and come up with something worth more than £52m. They didn’t and BA had not choice other than to ram it down their throats Foie Gras style. They didn’t like that very much, but if it hadn’t have occurred I have no doubt that BASSA/UNITE would still be sat around a negotiating table now, while BA bled cash at the seams.
Selfish, lying union, run to protect the people who run it - high paid, old contract CSDs.
YouTube - The Truth - BA cabin crew put their case
Time to put the record straight & refute some of UNITE/BASSA ‘truths’ here:
“FACT: BA have reduced crew numbers by between one and three per flight. This will impact on the level of service to customers”.
TRUTH: Crew have worked “one down” for years. This attracted a significant one-down payment. BASSA never had a cause to complain when crew were hosed down with cash to do so. Also, to clear it up, the previous claim that working without the extra crew member affects safety is also usual BASSA tripe, they’ve been doing it for years - it was never less safe then. Funny what hard cash can do to ‘principles’.
“FACT: Cabin crew are prepared to make sacrifices. Unite proposed over £100m in annual savings.”
TRUTH: No they didn’t did they! They proposed a poorly thought out TEMPORARY solution, not PERMANENT as requested by BA. Which was INDEPENDENTLY audited by Price Waterhouse Coopers to be worth £52m.
UNITE’s latest proposal actually INCREASES crewing levels onboard and proposes a cap on First class passengers and closing off zones in the cabin until crewing levels have been returned to last year’s levels! Priceless!
“FACT: Contrary to press reports, BA cabin crew do not earn a fortune. 75% earn a basic salary of £20000”
TRUTH: BASSA/UNITE have ‘conveniently’ missed a rather critical bit of information here too as it doesn’t suit their argument. BA cabin crew (especially those at LHR) have a rather lucrative allowances structure earning such things as: box payments/meal allowances/telephone allowances/cat lounge payments/working one down payments) in total these things amount to £12K on European routes out of LHR and £16K on Longhaul routes. So err, that means for the 75% of crew that BASSA/UNITE claim earn a basic pay of £20000, they ACTUALLY earn a gross salary of £32000 on s/h and £36000. LGW crew (who have been conveniently wheeled out for this argument earn HALF what their LHR counterparts do as BASSA/UNITE fed LGW to the sharks many years ago to protect fortress Heathrow. That is now coming home to roost. LGW perform the same service onboard the aircraft & have operated to MUCH reduced crewing levels than at LHR with UNITE/BASSA’s approval for many years!!
“FACT: Cabin crew believe BA should continue to be a premium service carrier”
So do BA. But even if BA didn’t, it’s not BASSA/UNITE’s decision to rule how the airline’s business plan should look/run. Their job is to represent cabin crew, BA’s job is to run a very large company.
FACT: BA cabin crew do not want to strike. They want a negotiated settlement. They are proud of their airline and want a future. Cabin crew care, negotiation not imposition
TRUTH: BASSA/UNITE were given a deadline back in the beginning of 2009 for coming up with the required savings. The deadline was JUNE 2009. After wasting that time by refusing to sign confidentiality agreements to openly view/audit the company accounts as BALPA did, BASSA/UNITE were given till NOVEMBER 2009 to try and come up with something worth more than £52m. They didn’t and BA had not choice other than to ram it down their throats Foie Gras style. They didn’t like that very much, but if it hadn’t have occurred I have no doubt that BASSA/UNITE would still be sat around a negotiating table now, while BA bled cash at the seams.
Selfish, lying union, run to protect the people who run it - high paid, old contract CSDs.
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A very erudite translation/interpretation of how things really are moo.
BA IFCE management should copy your post, paste it into a memo and post it out to each and every cabin crew member.
Lots of them already know much of what you say and, sadly, many others will remain in denial anyway, but I believe it would be a serious eye-opener for a significant number who have become used to believing everything BASSA say (because they've always been hosed down with cash for sticking to the union line in the past).
Unfortunately for them (but fortunately for our company's survival chances), times have changed.
The fact that, even with the imposition, they're still about the best rewarded cabin crew anywhere in the world seems not to be a factor in their thinking. It's all quite bizarre really, especially when you hear words like "I'd rather they go bust than get away with this". Where else do they think their lack of qualifications are going to earn them the equivalent of £30-36k per annum?
Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
BA IFCE management should copy your post, paste it into a memo and post it out to each and every cabin crew member.
Lots of them already know much of what you say and, sadly, many others will remain in denial anyway, but I believe it would be a serious eye-opener for a significant number who have become used to believing everything BASSA say (because they've always been hosed down with cash for sticking to the union line in the past).
Unfortunately for them (but fortunately for our company's survival chances), times have changed.
The fact that, even with the imposition, they're still about the best rewarded cabin crew anywhere in the world seems not to be a factor in their thinking. It's all quite bizarre really, especially when you hear words like "I'd rather they go bust than get away with this". Where else do they think their lack of qualifications are going to earn them the equivalent of £30-36k per annum?
Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden eggs.
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I smell another invalid ballot
At least one person is reporting on BASSA that they have received more than one ballot form...................
At least one person is reporting on BASSA that they have received more than one ballot form...................
This had got to be played out to its conclusion sooner rather than later because of the effect on forward bookings.
Or maybe that's the only weapon left in BASSA's armoury?
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Funnily enough, I've received a ballot as well...
Interestingly, the union has given 22 reasons to vote NO as part of the "literature". The ballot also comes with 19 issues.
The ballot itself has only one question on it: Are you prepared to take part in strike action. Options are yes or NO.
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA
Interestingly, the union has given 22 reasons to vote NO as part of the "literature". The ballot also comes with 19 issues.
The ballot itself has only one question on it: Are you prepared to take part in strike action. Options are yes or NO.
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA