British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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PCC-PCCC
Please remind me again, what does PCC or PCCC stand for again?
Sounds and looks like a former russian airliner.....
Is this some sort of phantasy union that belongs in the "SUN"?
Sounds and looks like a former russian airliner.....
Is this some sort of phantasy union that belongs in the "SUN"?
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A Lurker.
Here's my take on your questions to PCC:
1. What would you like the PCC to do for you?
2. How would you like the PCC to do this for you?
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
Here's my take on your questions to PCC:
1. What would you like the PCC to do for you?
2. How would you like the PCC to do this for you?
Gg
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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A Lurker, I could also say you are not cabin crew and certainly not a customer service trainer if you speak to ''punters'' on this forum they way you do! Recent example: your comment to finncastle.
Anyway I do not want to lower myself to BASSA forum level so will stop finger pointing.
Glamgirl has posted a nice twist on your views. The reason why PCC have not posted what they will personally do for you is maybe because they haven't had the time to get the amount of support they need for truly representing BA cabin crew. Does BASSA represent all of BA cabin crew. They have held on to our t&cs all this time which is great and hats off and I will not lie but I am very grateful of that- but is it of any benefit, as now, we face change at a huge level all in one go! They have not been proactive to solutions in the past, ignoring them (Columbus reared it's head early 2008 BASSA knew about it but they just scaremongered, rather than talking with BA until the last minute!
Thing is the blow of change can be softened only if the unions face up to reality!
Anyway I do not want to lower myself to BASSA forum level so will stop finger pointing.
Glamgirl has posted a nice twist on your views. The reason why PCC have not posted what they will personally do for you is maybe because they haven't had the time to get the amount of support they need for truly representing BA cabin crew. Does BASSA represent all of BA cabin crew. They have held on to our t&cs all this time which is great and hats off and I will not lie but I am very grateful of that- but is it of any benefit, as now, we face change at a huge level all in one go! They have not been proactive to solutions in the past, ignoring them (Columbus reared it's head early 2008 BASSA knew about it but they just scaremongered, rather than talking with BA until the last minute!
Thing is the blow of change can be softened only if the unions face up to reality!
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I'm actually with you on that A Lurker, some of the comments on this site from people who are not part of our community are enough to make me vote Yes just to spite them! You can't lower yourself to lose your temper though; this forum is almost certainly monitored and you can't want to join the ranks of the martyred 
WW CSD's, it just isn't worth the hassle! Go pour yourself a stiff drink! Look forward to training with you in the future!
WW CSD's, it just isn't worth the hassle! Go pour yourself a stiff drink! Look forward to training with you in the future!
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The changes that were imposed were crew complements being reduced - to similar levels of LGW. Of course LHR has some aircraft that LGW doesn't - a320, a321, 757, 767 and 747 but it is all similar levels, ratios etc.
Strange thing is we don't know if it is contractual or not. That is why the High Court will decide in Feb 1st. However some BASSA militants I have spoken to are saying even if the changes that were imposed are NON contractual we still are going on strike as it is the principal apparently. They say that ''if we accept this then whatever next''
So that is why they are urging us to strike. I'm voting No though, if it comes back as majority Yes and they embarass us once again then bye bye BASSA bye bye... as the song goes.
Strange thing is we don't know if it is contractual or not. That is why the High Court will decide in Feb 1st. However some BASSA militants I have spoken to are saying even if the changes that were imposed are NON contractual we still are going on strike as it is the principal apparently. They say that ''if we accept this then whatever next''
So that is why they are urging us to strike. I'm voting No though, if it comes back as majority Yes and they embarass us once again then bye bye BASSA bye bye... as the song goes.
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A Lurker
Do you honestly expect the PCC to jump now, just because you ask them to?
Get real. Success doesn't come overnight, achievement has to be worked-for, slowly and steadily. And that's exactly what the PCC is planning and working towards.
You seem to have your plans, the PCC has theirs. Just be patient, and I'm sure that all will become clear in time.
You know perfectly well, the reasons for the PCC team currently maintaining annonymity.
I am BA Cabin Crew. These thoughts are my own, not those of my employer.
Get real. Success doesn't come overnight, achievement has to be worked-for, slowly and steadily. And that's exactly what the PCC is planning and working towards.
You seem to have your plans, the PCC has theirs. Just be patient, and I'm sure that all will become clear in time.
You know perfectly well, the reasons for the PCC team currently maintaining annonymity.
I am BA Cabin Crew. These thoughts are my own, not those of my employer.
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Lurker - felt of late that your position was one of listen and engage in considered debate - what happened?
The fact that you have a second income YET still feel able and comfortable with putting the jobs of thousands of other members of staff that aren't in your situation does in my opinion make your position one I hope you feel at ease with - I for one couldn't.
Maybe you should just resign and focus on your 2nd income and resign now because after considering your post to this effect you'd be doing your CC colleagues, BA passengers and BA itself a huge favour
The fact that you have a second income YET still feel able and comfortable with putting the jobs of thousands of other members of staff that aren't in your situation does in my opinion make your position one I hope you feel at ease with - I for one couldn't.
Maybe you should just resign and focus on your 2nd income and resign now because after considering your post to this effect you'd be doing your CC colleagues, BA passengers and BA itself a huge favour
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Independent observation.
Reading every post and every page in large chunks, gives one a view of the ebb and flow of the thread and something very strange has happened over the last two or three pages.
It seems to me, without going back over stuff I've already read and many of the posts are not that interesting to be honest, that most, if not all of the BASSA supporters suddenly vanished. Virtually nothing, while there was a flurry of of links to YouTube where an astonishing two minutes and thirty-three seconds of what appears to be utter rubbish were seen. Then there was a link to, I think, the 'Socialist Worker' comment on the creation of PCCC. Astonishing stuff!
As I have said before, if half of what BASSA says and I hear about them is true, then they really need to get a tighter grip on reality. Similarly, if half of what I have read or learned in this thead about those who do not support BASSA and BA themselves is true, then they have, at least, a good arguable case. That is from an entirely independent observer.
Then next strange thing to happen was, all of a sudden, a small cohort of shall we say Yes voters? Suddenly burst onto the thread and started quite literally to throw their toys around. Meanwhile A. Lurker, who I had thought was actually quite a moderate and reasonable member of the BASSA supporters, suddenly revealed an altogether more unpleasant and selfish image of him/herself. To the point where my immediate reaction was; 'they are panicking'!
Their reaction to the unremitting and genuine posts of people on here, pilots and crew alike, who quite naturally are very concerned about their jobs and futures, was both selfish distain and raw panic. You must be making an impression. However, the slow motion train crash goes on.
Roger.
It seems to me, without going back over stuff I've already read and many of the posts are not that interesting to be honest, that most, if not all of the BASSA supporters suddenly vanished. Virtually nothing, while there was a flurry of of links to YouTube where an astonishing two minutes and thirty-three seconds of what appears to be utter rubbish were seen. Then there was a link to, I think, the 'Socialist Worker' comment on the creation of PCCC. Astonishing stuff!
As I have said before, if half of what BASSA says and I hear about them is true, then they really need to get a tighter grip on reality. Similarly, if half of what I have read or learned in this thead about those who do not support BASSA and BA themselves is true, then they have, at least, a good arguable case. That is from an entirely independent observer.
Then next strange thing to happen was, all of a sudden, a small cohort of shall we say Yes voters? Suddenly burst onto the thread and started quite literally to throw their toys around. Meanwhile A. Lurker, who I had thought was actually quite a moderate and reasonable member of the BASSA supporters, suddenly revealed an altogether more unpleasant and selfish image of him/herself. To the point where my immediate reaction was; 'they are panicking'!
Their reaction to the unremitting and genuine posts of people on here, pilots and crew alike, who quite naturally are very concerned about their jobs and futures, was both selfish distain and raw panic. You must be making an impression. However, the slow motion train crash goes on.
Roger.
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What about the "Blokes" who book those tickets to send other "Blokes" who work for their company on BA flights? Do we get any respect in your world? 
I'm free to use any carrier I like. I choose BA because the routes they offer suit my purposes well and the prices are competitive. I could just as easily choose another airline or use surface transport.
As for "What are you going to do for me??" asked of the PCC:
There'll be no need for them to do anything for you. You and your dinosaurs will soon be out the door whilst people like Glamgirl and her colleagues pick up the pieces and attempt to work with other departments to build BA back up to the great airline that once it was.
You Sir, are an irrelevance quite frankly. I'm spending my company's money still booking BA because I have absolutely no doubt that BASSA will lose.
I'm free to use any carrier I like. I choose BA because the routes they offer suit my purposes well and the prices are competitive. I could just as easily choose another airline or use surface transport.
As for "What are you going to do for me??" asked of the PCC:
There'll be no need for them to do anything for you. You and your dinosaurs will soon be out the door whilst people like Glamgirl and her colleagues pick up the pieces and attempt to work with other departments to build BA back up to the great airline that once it was.
You Sir, are an irrelevance quite frankly. I'm spending my company's money still booking BA because I have absolutely no doubt that BASSA will lose.
Last edited by Ten West; 26th Jan 2010 at 22:14. Reason: shpealing and grandma
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Good evening Mr Lurker.
After feedback from members, because we do listen and re-act, we have changed the code of our name to PCC to make it easier. The name itself and the email hasn't changed and is still
Professional Cabin-crew Council. [email protected]
You asked "What are you going to do for me?". Well, I have to be brutally honest - the answer is absolutely nothing. You see at our last meeting, we discussed the situation. Some people, like yourself, are simply lost completely. You will never be able to understand the need to change for a company to survive, you accept everything that BASSA say to you, and you refuse to listen to logic. It is therefore fruitless for us to even try.
We are focusing on the people who deserve our support, who either understand that they have been let down by Unite or who are confused as to why this terribly stressful situation has happened. The ones who don't all have their own private companies in the pipeline.
The PCC Team would like to wish you luck in your new business venture.
Ps. Any answers from BASSA to your very appropriate questions about their handling of the HMRC investigation?
Hannah - welcome to Pprune which is a forum based on facts. Your post unfortunately does not contain any. The vast majority of emails that the PCC team have received contain people's names. Many even give their staff number, fleet etc. The feedback has been a refreshing change from the negativity that has pervaded our community for too long.
The offer of a professional way to do business is proving to be a very tempting one for a very large number of cabin crew. We have no doubt that the next ballot result will reflect that.
I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
After feedback from members, because we do listen and re-act, we have changed the code of our name to PCC to make it easier. The name itself and the email hasn't changed and is still
Professional Cabin-crew Council. [email protected]
You asked "What are you going to do for me?". Well, I have to be brutally honest - the answer is absolutely nothing. You see at our last meeting, we discussed the situation. Some people, like yourself, are simply lost completely. You will never be able to understand the need to change for a company to survive, you accept everything that BASSA say to you, and you refuse to listen to logic. It is therefore fruitless for us to even try.
We are focusing on the people who deserve our support, who either understand that they have been let down by Unite or who are confused as to why this terribly stressful situation has happened. The ones who don't all have their own private companies in the pipeline.
The PCC Team would like to wish you luck in your new business venture.
Ps. Any answers from BASSA to your very appropriate questions about their handling of the HMRC investigation?
Hannah - welcome to Pprune which is a forum based on facts. Your post unfortunately does not contain any. The vast majority of emails that the PCC team have received contain people's names. Many even give their staff number, fleet etc. The feedback has been a refreshing change from the negativity that has pervaded our community for too long.
The offer of a professional way to do business is proving to be a very tempting one for a very large number of cabin crew. We have no doubt that the next ballot result will reflect that.
I am BA cabin crew and the above is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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r u sure?
LURKER
``We are striking due to contractual changes and impositions being imposed by British Airways (since November) which we believe are in breach of the contract between British Airways and ourselves. A High Court case will decide on the 1st February if these changes are indeed contractual.``
Are you sure about this?
Indeed if it is the case why not wait until 1FEB and see which way the high court ruling goes???
But... the more you post....... the more i suspect that you are not BA crew but just a wind up merchant!
I will try and think of a question or two for you so you can prove who you are?
Who was the head of cabin services before STS??
Who was the original leader of CC89?
``We are striking due to contractual changes and impositions being imposed by British Airways (since November) which we believe are in breach of the contract between British Airways and ourselves. A High Court case will decide on the 1st February if these changes are indeed contractual.``
Are you sure about this?
Indeed if it is the case why not wait until 1FEB and see which way the high court ruling goes???
But... the more you post....... the more i suspect that you are not BA crew but just a wind up merchant!
I will try and think of a question or two for you so you can prove who you are?
Who was the head of cabin services before STS??
Who was the original leader of CC89?
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Ottergirl not sure what you meant in the last post. Hope it was not directed at me?? 
I agree with you there are some vile posts on here from both sides, and some people who have absolutely nothing to do with BA (not even as pax) who somehow hate us BA crew, or tar us all with the same brush as being lazy etc... or saying that crew are unskilled lazy workers who deserve minimum wages (they don't actually say that but that's what it is like) I certainly do not agree with those posts.
I am balanced and I think my posts on here reflect that, I am BA crew myself, I think much of what BA has proposed is reasonable (although I do naturally have some objections/apprehensions as after all I want a decent salary and livelihood) and will be voting No because the union are acting irresponsibily and - let's face it they do not have us in their best interests! That is why I am voting No as I accept change and think the union should be more proactive, however I do not want a deunionised workforce, just I think the current union either needs to get its act together and have a change of leadership or a new union formed.
Oh and A lurker, whilst I support the PCC etc I do not ''work'' for them so I can't answer the question! lol
I agree with you there are some vile posts on here from both sides, and some people who have absolutely nothing to do with BA (not even as pax) who somehow hate us BA crew, or tar us all with the same brush as being lazy etc... or saying that crew are unskilled lazy workers who deserve minimum wages (they don't actually say that but that's what it is like) I certainly do not agree with those posts.I am balanced and I think my posts on here reflect that, I am BA crew myself, I think much of what BA has proposed is reasonable (although I do naturally have some objections/apprehensions as after all I want a decent salary and livelihood) and will be voting No because the union are acting irresponsibily and - let's face it they do not have us in their best interests! That is why I am voting No as I accept change and think the union should be more proactive, however I do not want a deunionised workforce, just I think the current union either needs to get its act together and have a change of leadership or a new union formed.
Oh and A lurker, whilst I support the PCC etc I do not ''work'' for them so I can't answer the question! lol
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BA Flight from the regions to CPT and return £3400
Air France from the regions to CPT and return £2100.
Air France from the regions to CPT and return £2100.
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and decided to join the ranks of the 'militants' 
and vote YES whilst taking out a re-mortgage to secure my future because I genuinely believe this is going to be the end of this company.
and vote YES whilst taking out a re-mortgage to secure my future because I genuinely believe this is going to be the end of this company.
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Lurker, this will not be the end of our company. If you think that you get mad reading these posts, how do you think the rest of us feel, reading that you and your like are happy to try and help bring BA down.. There are a great number of true professionals within BA that are just not prepared to let this happen, crew and non-crew. It really is time to wake up and smell the coffee sir, this is not the 1950’s. Hopefully, LHR crew will finally end up being represented by a truly progressive union in the future, not an outfit that’s trying to destroy the airline.
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Sorry A Lurker. If I contributed to you feeling ''fed up'' then apologies. I think if we are all honest we all are at the moment! You don't seem militant (well not like the BASSA forum members anyhow!) but I just didn't agree with some of your views or how I ''percieved'' you to speak about our ''punters''. However as we all know, meanings and interpretations can get mixed up in translation on an anonymous internet forum!
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ok
OK Lurker
I almost believe you now
Can you answer the other bit too please
LURKER
``We are striking due to contractual changes and impositions being imposed by British Airways (since November) which we believe are in breach of the contract between British Airways and ourselves. A High Court case will decide on the 1st February if these changes are indeed contractual.``
Are you sure about this?
Indeed if it is the case why not wait until 1FEB and see which way the high court ruling goes???
thanks
I almost believe you now
Can you answer the other bit too please
LURKER
``We are striking due to contractual changes and impositions being imposed by British Airways (since November) which we believe are in breach of the contract between British Airways and ourselves. A High Court case will decide on the 1st February if these changes are indeed contractual.``
Are you sure about this?
Indeed if it is the case why not wait until 1FEB and see which way the high court ruling goes???
thanks
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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To the point where my immediate reaction was; 'they are panicking'!
They're panicking because it is becoming increasingly apparent to their membership that once again, a "Yes" vote will involve them walking out for a long period as BA are most definitely not coming back to the table. Given the level of shock from their membership last time, BASSA are not convinced that they can achieve a significant "Yes" vote, especially as the "sick out" option has been withdrawn. FWIW, I believe their will be a "Yes" vote but the number of "Yes" voters will be significantly less. As for the number who will actually walk out .....
They're panicking because Unite are in discussions with BA and we know what happened to BASSA last time that happened.
They're panicking because it doesn't matter how good (or not), their rhetoric is, facts will be what count in court. Hence their spiteful threat to "strike anyway", even if the court finds in BA's favour.
They're panicking because the fledgling PCC is now on the scene and attracting interest. If they're not worried about it, why has that well known bastion of impartial journalism, Socialist Worker, taken such an interest? Very little of that article is accurate by the way.
They're panicking because they know if (when) they lose this one, BASSA is finished.