British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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AFAIK the moderators on this forum are cabin crew but none are from BA.
I'm sure one will be along soon
A BALPA rep tells me the same as BigBrutha re resignations.
FumeEvent, yes he would like crew on new contracts (costs, nothing to do with pensions) and BASSA appear to be playing right into his hands...
I wonder how many would re-apply to BA if 90 days notice was served, coupled with all those redundant crew in the job centres...
I'm sure one will be along soon
A BALPA rep tells me the same as BigBrutha re resignations.
FumeEvent, yes he would like crew on new contracts (costs, nothing to do with pensions) and BASSA appear to be playing right into his hands...
I wonder how many would re-apply to BA if 90 days notice was served, coupled with all those redundant crew in the job centres...
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What I find really interesting is that the Militants, and BASSA Bullievers 
are all saying they are "financially secure"...blah, blah, blah, so let BA go down cos I'll be all right Jack.
But then they are voting to strike due to "not being able to pay the mortgage at the end of 2010" etc. etc.
I mean, if they're so financially sound what's the big deal? It is obvious to all that being so financially secure, they must only work here for the glamour, so why not accept the crew complements, and keep the glam!
Apologies all....the utter tripe that we have to endure is taking it's toll now.
I am a BA cabin crew member and the above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
are all saying they are "financially secure"...blah, blah, blah, so let BA go down cos I'll be all right Jack.But then they are voting to strike due to "not being able to pay the mortgage at the end of 2010" etc. etc.
I mean, if they're so financially sound what's the big deal? It is obvious to all that being so financially secure, they must only work here for the glamour, so why not accept the crew complements, and keep the glam!
Apologies all....the utter tripe that we have to endure is taking it's toll now.
I am a BA cabin crew member and the above represents my own view, and not that of BA.
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No you don't, you still have a job. You mean lose control, don't you?
Straw polls are like straw houses. WW will huff and puff and yours will blow down on... oooh... the first day of strike action. Ms Malone has more or less said so, yesterday!
If myself (sic) and my colleagues allow BA to breach our contracts then we lose everything
by the way the 'staw poll' is going on the BASSA website there will be another overwhelming majority in favour of Industrial Action
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So can we presume Mr Lurker that if the High Court decides BAs changes are non-contractual you'll drop your strike plans? After all, if you are only striking to protect your contract and it turns out your contract hasn't been touched......
PS as the militants are so fond of saying that we live in a democracy, don't forget that one if the cornerstones of democracy is the rule of law. And the law overturned your ballot. When the illuminati wish to disregard the rule of law you're on the road to dictatorship.
PS as the militants are so fond of saying that we live in a democracy, don't forget that one if the cornerstones of democracy is the rule of law. And the law overturned your ballot. When the illuminati wish to disregard the rule of law you're on the road to dictatorship.
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Lurker - no-one has suggested a pay cut except BASSA (the pilots 2.61% copycat we-have-no-idea-how-it-was-derived-but-we'll-offer-it figure)
You just have to work a teensy bit harder during the service. How does that affect your mortgage payments?
You just have to work a teensy bit harder during the service. How does that affect your mortgage payments?
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Lurker, if your union had negotiated a bidding system in exchange for some of your outmoded agreements, then you might have some control. Ever wonder why the same faces go to the destinations with your highest allowances?
And yes, I do work for an airline, I would prefer it stayed in business.
The judge will decide whether the changes are contractual, not you posting on PPRuNe.
And yes, I do work for an airline, I would prefer it stayed in business.
The judge will decide whether the changes are contractual, not you posting on PPRuNe.
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Can you answer me this then - what if the judge rules in favour of BASSA/UNITE what happens then?
So if BASSA win, they lose. If they lose, they lose as well. Lose-lose.
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Some of those 'BASSA MILITANTS' as you say - may well have a mortgage to pay and if they are put onto new rates of pay then they may well not be able to pay their mortgages - or is that too obvious?
When you've found it, can you please tell me WHAT my new rate of pay is going to be?
When you've done that, can you please tell me WHEN my new rate of pay is going to start?
I am BA cabin crew (much to the disbelief of some) and this is my own viewpoint and not that of BA.
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Again, if BA lose the judge will decide what BA have to pay, not BASSA. And as BASSA have no scope clause you may find it rather hard to leverage BA over new fleet. British Asia Airways is still in existence, and you've no contractual right to fly on their aircraft.
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A Lurker
OK, let's have a debate.
Your employer offered you the option to agree such changes over the best part of a year! Those that negotiate on your behalf declined to agree such changes. (Indeed arrogantly refused to even listen to the case for change!!) Your employer was then left with no option but to 'impose'! What else could it do?
The High Court will rule whether your employer is in breach of contract, in early February. Why do you need to ballot now?
How so? The only people currently affected are CSDs who are, as we speak, now contributing to the cabin service. The good ones always did. CC have not seen any change to their pay, nor is any reduction proposed!. Unlike others in BA!
It wasn't BA that left the table!!
BA have the firepower to ensure they survive the worst IA their CC can sustain. If this becomes a 'fight to the death' BA will survive, your employment may not.
BA is struggling with 2 things at the moment: First is the 1970s 'throwbacks' in it's ranks, which if left to survive will, in the years to come, signal the death knell of this once fine company.
Secondly, is the continuing cancer of threatened IA, which is indeed preventing the recovery this company desperately requires, by punishing those that pay our wages!
CC were absolutely vilified in the press last month. You would be a fool to think that was due to 'biased media'! The truth hurts, and it hurts nobody more than BASSA!
This dispute seems highly likely to become a 'fight to the death'. That death will be BASSA's. BA have many WMDs yet to be deployed, in it's battle for survival! Sadly, you personally have two choices. Support the strike until the end, and lose your privileged, high paid job, or throw in the towel as soon as you are required to go to work, and keep your fantastic T&Cs?
I'll put money on what you all do. But then you aren't giving us any choice! (WW knows the answer too! Because the issues currently at stake are not worth losing your livelihood for! Any strike will be broken!) You would have to be stupid to risk everything for this!!
OK, let's have a debate.
If my employer wishes to change those terms and conditions he must do so in agreement with myself
otherwise my employer is in breach of contract
If myself and my colleagues allow BA to breach our contracts then we lose everything
if we go and strike and BA come back to the table
The worst case scenario is that BA goes under
BA is struggling with 2 things at the moment: First is the 1970s 'throwbacks' in it's ranks, which if left to survive will, in the years to come, signal the death knell of this once fine company.
Secondly, is the continuing cancer of threatened IA, which is indeed preventing the recovery this company desperately requires, by punishing those that pay our wages!
CC were absolutely vilified in the press last month. You would be a fool to think that was due to 'biased media'! The truth hurts, and it hurts nobody more than BASSA!
This dispute seems highly likely to become a 'fight to the death'. That death will be BASSA's. BA have many WMDs yet to be deployed, in it's battle for survival! Sadly, you personally have two choices. Support the strike until the end, and lose your privileged, high paid job, or throw in the towel as soon as you are required to go to work, and keep your fantastic T&Cs?
I'll put money on what you all do. But then you aren't giving us any choice! (WW knows the answer too! Because the issues currently at stake are not worth losing your livelihood for! Any strike will be broken!) You would have to be stupid to risk everything for this!!
Last edited by 4468; 4th Jan 2010 at 00:35.
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The clue is in the word "new" - ie. not us. The bits that you've highlighted emphasize that fact - new crew/fleet will be on a new rate. NOT US!
So thanks - you've just validated my argument.
So, again, please tell me where, when, what MY new pay will be?
So thanks - you've just validated my argument.
So, again, please tell me where, when, what MY new pay will be?
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A Lurker, as Hiflyer quite rightly pointed out it quite clearly (very clearly infact) says new crew ie. new recruits for the future will be on market rate plus 10% - so they still will be on a reasonable salary, we will be on ours still, unless we want to transfer that is.... In all the documents ie. the very contraversial ''Project Columbus'' documents and all emails Bill (or STS when columbus was first rumoured) have stated they want to minimize the impact on us current crew. We will NOT be forced on NF, we will just have to work harder which isn't exactly hard is it, as we still have a good lifestyle compared to many airlines! BASSA where the ones that started suggesting ''oooh we will be starved of work'' - it is something that we don't know will happen but you cannot just completely mistrust BA.
BASSA/Unite's refusal to negotiate anything will bring about NF even quicker anyway! BA gave you the option to negotiate savvily to change some things on our fleets but did some of the BASSA WW CSDs want to work on a trolley? No! Did they want fixed links etc etc no, did they want to work harder? NO! They wanted their cake and to eat it actually! Well they can't!
BASSA/Unite's refusal to negotiate anything will bring about NF even quicker anyway! BA gave you the option to negotiate savvily to change some things on our fleets but did some of the BASSA WW CSDs want to work on a trolley? No! Did they want fixed links etc etc no, did they want to work harder? NO! They wanted their cake and to eat it actually! Well they can't!
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A few years back I was involved in a takeover, during which I was essentially told that I had to sign a new contract with my new employer. This contract essentially matched my existing contract, the only difference being that for the first three months, either side could terminate with a weeks notice.
I duly signed it and, once I'd found a new job gave that weeks notice a week before the crucial month end activities, much to their consternation but contracts are a two way street.
So how about if BA issue the 90 day contract termination notice, and then immediately offer existing CC that are not BASSA members, and those that do not want to strike and are willing to accept what has been imposed, a new contract that matches what they are being asked to do now?
If faced with the choice of this contract now, or the certainty of either market rate + 10% or no contract at all, I wonder how many BASSA members would cave in and take what they are offered?
I suspect enough to keep the airline going.
How about it BA? Sorry for the pun, but BA should strike while the iron is hot.
I duly signed it and, once I'd found a new job gave that weeks notice a week before the crucial month end activities, much to their consternation but contracts are a two way street.
So how about if BA issue the 90 day contract termination notice, and then immediately offer existing CC that are not BASSA members, and those that do not want to strike and are willing to accept what has been imposed, a new contract that matches what they are being asked to do now?
If faced with the choice of this contract now, or the certainty of either market rate + 10% or no contract at all, I wonder how many BASSA members would cave in and take what they are offered?
I suspect enough to keep the airline going.
How about it BA? Sorry for the pun, but BA should strike while the iron is hot.
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Can anyone here give an intelligent, elegant, even eloquent explanation why BA are still putting money into OpenSkies, which commercially is all washed up? It is there ready to shaft BA pilots. It is their New Fleet. Ha ha.
And cut the rubbish about pilots joining Unite, its been firmly put to bed above.
BA's flight crew need to wake up to the fact that there are thousands of pilots who would take their jobs in a second for half the money.
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Interesting that the pension trustees don't share Fume Event/Mr Perfects world view about contracts needing to change to deal with the pension deficit. I wonder who I should believe, the highly trained and qualified trustees, or the bitter CSD who takes any and every opportunity to attack pilots with false and transparent claims?
You keep greasing those wheels Mr P.
You keep greasing those wheels Mr P.