British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Wonker # 1205
Salmon: It seems a bit fishy that you spend so much time on here your so called company must be suffering having your so so called talents dedicated to this site. I suspect you are part of the BA team setup to feed the media I have seen it so many times.I can't understand anyone being so interested in an airline you swear not to use although that's just part of your cover story. BASSA are my union along with the 92.49% who voted with me have no trust in our management that's a simple fact so off you go and compile another drum beating post.
It does not do your cause any good and shows up the paucity of your own intellect as well as the moral bankruptcy of your cause.
What I do with my time is absolutely no concern of yours. All you need to know is that I am opposed to BASSA being set on destroying British Airways with no thought for or consideration of what will happen in the future.
I will tell you, though, that I have absolutely no connections whatever with "the BA team set up (that's two words, Wonker, not as you wrote) to feed the media" - far from it.
I and the rest of the readers of this thread know only too well that you are a member of BASSA.
It's just a shame that your trade union is hell bent to ruin the livelihoods of its members, their families, the rest of BA's staff and their families, those of BA's contractors and the livings of BA staff overseas - all of whom will be ruined if and when BASSA goes out on strike.
Your intransigence, coupled with that of your union, will just lead to folly, destruction and misery.
Keep it up, Wonker, but remember: people who work in glass houses should never throw stones.
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Dear fly12345
I believe that I never said it was a problem. What is the problem it is the way it is done..I am not going to go on about as we have discussed this issue for a long time now and I really don't want to repeat myself.
however in my own personal experience the service has been deteriorated, only because the new position has been allocated by someone in an office who obviously does not have a clue of what it is like to work on board an aircraft.
to give you an idea of what I am talking about and I hope you are cabin crew, so that you will understand what I am talking about.
I have just flown the number 6 position on a 4 class 777.
the position requires the CC to be in charge of the service and work the aisle with the CSD. On top of that the position also requires number 6 to be the df bar operator and therefore on 2nd break.
As soon as we took off the CSD was called away from the service as there were problems with the flight deck., not an emercency btw.
The service suffered a delay and therefore an inconvinience to our customers, who all they wanted was to get a quick service and go to sleep.
Of course in a normal situation the new crew complement (which by the way is part of our agreement) is not a problem but as you may be aware, we hardly have a normal operation on board an aircraft.
Romans, The new crew complement is absolutely no problem and in my personal experience the service has not deteriorated but actually it has improved.
however in my own personal experience the service has been deteriorated, only because the new position has been allocated by someone in an office who obviously does not have a clue of what it is like to work on board an aircraft.
to give you an idea of what I am talking about and I hope you are cabin crew, so that you will understand what I am talking about.
I have just flown the number 6 position on a 4 class 777.
the position requires the CC to be in charge of the service and work the aisle with the CSD. On top of that the position also requires number 6 to be the df bar operator and therefore on 2nd break.
As soon as we took off the CSD was called away from the service as there were problems with the flight deck., not an emercency btw.
The service suffered a delay and therefore an inconvinience to our customers, who all they wanted was to get a quick service and go to sleep.
Of course in a normal situation the new crew complement (which by the way is part of our agreement) is not a problem but as you may be aware, we hardly have a normal operation on board an aircraft.
Last edited by romans44; 5th Jan 2010 at 12:49.
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So, it was OK for the Gatwick crews to do it, but now LHR have to comply, it's a problem?
And I thought the union worked for all members, didn't realise that some members are more equal than others
And I thought the union worked for all members, didn't realise that some members are more equal than others
"some members are more equal than others"
Yup, it has always been the case. Unite are about to have an election for their Gen. Sec.
ALL that the National Officials are interested in is who will get that job.
TU members are a complete irrelevancy until that election has been held, unless their actions - such as strikes - get the right publicity for the candidates.
The Unite hierarchy are currently interested in 3 things.
1. Gen Sec election
2. How much money to give to the Labour Party
3. How much time local officials will give in each constituency to counter-act Lord Archer's targetting of the key marginals.
(There was a mtg of Unite Officials in December and those were the key topics over tea and coffee).
Members come about 11th on the list.
Yup, it has always been the case. Unite are about to have an election for their Gen. Sec.
ALL that the National Officials are interested in is who will get that job.
TU members are a complete irrelevancy until that election has been held, unless their actions - such as strikes - get the right publicity for the candidates.
The Unite hierarchy are currently interested in 3 things.
1. Gen Sec election
2. How much money to give to the Labour Party
3. How much time local officials will give in each constituency to counter-act Lord Archer's targetting of the key marginals.
(There was a mtg of Unite Officials in December and those were the key topics over tea and coffee).
Members come about 11th on the list.
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So, it was OK for the Gatwick crews to do it, but now LHR have to comply, it's a problem?
And I thought the union worked for all members, didn't realise that some members are more equal than others
And I thought the union worked for all members, didn't realise that some members are more equal than others
However an agreement was reached for both bases, my guess is that due to the different type of markets the crew compliments required is different but that is my guess.
I know that you guys at LGW have always been given an unfair treatment and for that I am truly sorry but that is not to say that I should simple stand back and watch my agreement being ripped away.
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LHR is the bigger operation. Therefore LHR has more CC and ergo, more union members. Therefore it is not beyond the realms of possibility that as long as LHR crew are not suffering, things will be agreed upon (majority vote).
All members of BASSA, irrespective of base, need to work together to get what is best for them and BA. You need to be lookng at long term futures, not short term gains.
BASSA are out to do things for themselves. They are not, it seems, particularly bothered about their membership, apart from paying lip service to them.
All members of BASSA, irrespective of base, need to work together to get what is best for them and BA. You need to be lookng at long term futures, not short term gains.
BASSA are out to do things for themselves. They are not, it seems, particularly bothered about their membership, apart from paying lip service to them.
Junior trash
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my guess is that due to the different type of markets the crew compliments required is different but that is my guess.
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All members of BASSA, irrespective of base, need to work together to get what is best for them and BA. You need to be lookng at long term futures, not short term gains.
I am looking at my future , that's why I am prepared to put up a fight.
yet another case of having to agree to disagree on the issue and try to move on.
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So how do you explain that in these hugely different markets 35miles apart that when the passenger demographics are most closely matched to LGW, (high Y Loads, mostly leisure pax + demanding high yield leisure pax in J and F ie MIA, MRU daylight CPT etc) LHR required not just 1 more crew member but 2?
Hence why so many US airlines have moved most of their operation to LHR from LGW, once the openskies agreement was reached between the US and the UK.
Last edited by romans44; 5th Jan 2010 at 15:07.
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Hi Glamgirl,
That would have to be negotiating between the company and my union. Personally I was very happy to take 20% pay cut when I worked for a different airline just after 9/11.
I would also be happy be not to recieve a back pay once we are back in profitability, just a return to what we have now.
Can I ask you what percentage you think is fitting as a pay cut? And do you mean it as a temporary pay cut and when profitability is back (if ever), your pay goes up, or do you mean you receive the lost moneys for the period of the pay cut as well?
I would also be happy be not to recieve a back pay once we are back in profitability, just a return to what we have now.
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so you 're trying to suggest that
for example
a 289 seat to orlando is easier to crew (10/11 at lgw)
than a 215 seat to atlanta (11 / 12 at lhr) - which was at lgw until recently anyway.
for example
a 289 seat to orlando is easier to crew (10/11 at lgw)
than a 215 seat to atlanta (11 / 12 at lhr) - which was at lgw until recently anyway.
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LGW is well know to be, mainly, a leisure market while LHR is well known to be, mainly, a business market.
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I "keep coming back to this forum" not because of any "obsession" with you, but rather because I do not wish to see a group of militant, bolshie, overpaid and underworked hotheads ruin a perfectly good business.
If you find my presence on this website unpalatable please remember that it is open to anyone - including disgruntled passengers.
Believe it or not, we are the most important factor in BA's passenger operations - not cabin crew. If we do not fly with British Airways because its crews cannot or will not work the company will fail - and you will fall.
I, too, wish you luck and I hope you will speedily find employment somewhere else - but not in a customer service environment. You and your pro-strike at any cost colleagues have proved that you are patently unsuited for that
If you find my presence on this website unpalatable please remember that it is open to anyone - including disgruntled passengers.
Believe it or not, we are the most important factor in BA's passenger operations - not cabin crew. If we do not fly with British Airways because its crews cannot or will not work the company will fail - and you will fall.
I, too, wish you luck and I hope you will speedily find employment somewhere else - but not in a customer service environment. You and your pro-strike at any cost colleagues have proved that you are patently unsuited for that
No Mr Albert Salmom, I don't find your presence on this website unpalatable, we live in a democracy and you have the right to say what you want to say.
You are an adult and have taken the decision to move to different pastures. I respect that but I wish you would just move on without insulting people, who you know nothing about.
Kind Regards
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LGW is well known to be, mainly, a leisure market while LHR is well known to be, mainly, a business market.
A simple comprehension of the corporate market would make that abundantly clear - the business catchment area for LGW is Surrey, Sussex, Kent and south and central London. Is that as big as LHR? No. Is it still substantial? Absolutely. By the way, the reason for so many charter flights out of LGW is because of the grandfathered slots. Would other airlines like to have those slots? Absolutely. Do the charter carriers want to give them up? Not a prayer.
If you wish to tell others not to comment on cabin crew issues they know little about, I would suggest the same applies to you in talking about commercial matters of which you apparently know little if anything.
Last edited by Papillon; 5th Jan 2010 at 15:36.
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I don't think is a future for you Gg running your union that only solicits ideas to cut pay and conditions for its members.....unless you are in BALPA of course!
New pilot recruits to UNITE have a BA F/O as a contact. Most are leaving as they know BALPA are a spent force and just require the legal cover. That is the reason a Captain gave to me.
I thought BALPA were going to hold off introducing their pay cut on members until other groups had settled? Why have they gone on and unilaterally foisted what is basically an 8% pay cut on their members?
No wonder so many are dissillusioned and are flocking to UNITE
It is unfortunate that some CSD's were so overwhelmed by the imposition of crew complement change, that they apologised to passengers and are now suspended for "bringing BA into disrepute". If there was ever a case of constructive dismissal, this is it. One CSD is suspended for something he/she is alleged to have said in a Briefing Room in March of last year! Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
The sad fact is that most of those suspended are not what you might class as a militant minority. These are dedicated crew who were completely at the end of their tether with multiple problems on a particular flight, compounding the crass way changes to work routines and complements were introduced, without any prior training or checks by BA that its senior crew were up to speed.
It is no good IFS in BA now cracking down on a few martyrs being sacrificed on the altar of BA's imposition. It just smacks of desperation by a desperate bully boy thug management.
New pilot recruits to UNITE have a BA F/O as a contact. Most are leaving as they know BALPA are a spent force and just require the legal cover. That is the reason a Captain gave to me.
I thought BALPA were going to hold off introducing their pay cut on members until other groups had settled? Why have they gone on and unilaterally foisted what is basically an 8% pay cut on their members?
No wonder so many are dissillusioned and are flocking to UNITE
It is unfortunate that some CSD's were so overwhelmed by the imposition of crew complement change, that they apologised to passengers and are now suspended for "bringing BA into disrepute". If there was ever a case of constructive dismissal, this is it. One CSD is suspended for something he/she is alleged to have said in a Briefing Room in March of last year! Talk about scraping the bottom of the barrel.
The sad fact is that most of those suspended are not what you might class as a militant minority. These are dedicated crew who were completely at the end of their tether with multiple problems on a particular flight, compounding the crass way changes to work routines and complements were introduced, without any prior training or checks by BA that its senior crew were up to speed.
It is no good IFS in BA now cracking down on a few martyrs being sacrificed on the altar of BA's imposition. It just smacks of desperation by a desperate bully boy thug management.
Last edited by Fume Event; 5th Jan 2010 at 15:39.
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Personally - an Atlanta/Houston/DFW/JFK (and the other Business routes gatters had many moons ago) were always far easier than the Liesure routes - which is why the likes of Orlando, Kingston etc. probably used to carry the Destination Payment.
Having spoken to current friends on the SFG fleet they much preffered the pace of a flight on the Business routes to the liesure routes. Though obvisouly 48 hours in Barbados on slip is much more fun than Dallas (no offence to those from Dallas).
Business routes Passengers know what to expect, know what they want and know the routine, they eat sleep and pretty much get on with any problems/delays without much fuss (they know how to handle the problems of aviation). In contrast liesure customers used to require a lot more of my time.
Anyway my point is flying liesure our of LGW was always much more demanding than flying a business route out of LHR (and we are talking LGW World Wide days so the same crewing levels as LHR had). So I am sorry but I don't accept that LHR needs more crew because of its passenger demographics.
Having spoken to current friends on the SFG fleet they much preffered the pace of a flight on the Business routes to the liesure routes. Though obvisouly 48 hours in Barbados on slip is much more fun than Dallas (no offence to those from Dallas).
Business routes Passengers know what to expect, know what they want and know the routine, they eat sleep and pretty much get on with any problems/delays without much fuss (they know how to handle the problems of aviation). In contrast liesure customers used to require a lot more of my time.
Anyway my point is flying liesure our of LGW was always much more demanding than flying a business route out of LHR (and we are talking LGW World Wide days so the same crewing levels as LHR had). So I am sorry but I don't accept that LHR needs more crew because of its passenger demographics.