British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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Not clear cut as we are in disagreement.
It does start off by saying if the majority do not support a strike then Ts and Cs would remain but if a strike goes ahead this cannot be guaranteed.
As BA can't pay some cc one rate and the strikers another I assume the majority vote will count.
If this is correct there will be a vote no campaign.
Point taken about commuters but a lot buy full fare on BMI who do serve LHR
It does start off by saying if the majority do not support a strike then Ts and Cs would remain but if a strike goes ahead this cannot be guaranteed.
As BA can't pay some cc one rate and the strikers another I assume the majority vote will count.
If this is correct there will be a vote no campaign.
Point taken about commuters but a lot buy full fare on BMI who do serve LHR
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Good news
At last, some good news for the BASSA "professionals":
McDonald's Announces It Expects To Create 5,000 UK Jobs After 'Record-Breaking' Year | Business | Sky News
McDonald's Announces It Expects To Create 5,000 UK Jobs After 'Record-Breaking' Year | Business | Sky News
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617sqn
I think you are totally wrong. Tickets from EasyJet etc tend to be for fixed flights and non-transferable.
So when your flight is delayed for whatever reason, they become very much less flexible than an ID90 standby ticket that can be used on BA/BMI etc; when you just need a stack of them, undated, to see you through a month's commute.
For commuters, it is not about the annual holiday, it's about the routine commute.
Yes, it's become much more expensive over the last few years with the taxes etc, but taking ST away will have an ENORMOUS affect on commuters, to the sum of probably £200 per month and possible airport transfer costs (to get to LTN/STN) and hours of time. The loss of ST will mean that hundreds of those deemed to be strikers will have to give up their jobs and further hasten the introduction of New Fleet.
BASSA are finished, imho.
Staff travel may not sway people as you can get cheaper tickets from Easy Jet etc and it's a guaranteed seat.
Personally I haven't used staff travel in years.Never any spare seats when I want to go away.
Personally I haven't used staff travel in years.Never any spare seats when I want to go away.
So when your flight is delayed for whatever reason, they become very much less flexible than an ID90 standby ticket that can be used on BA/BMI etc; when you just need a stack of them, undated, to see you through a month's commute.
For commuters, it is not about the annual holiday, it's about the routine commute.
Yes, it's become much more expensive over the last few years with the taxes etc, but taking ST away will have an ENORMOUS affect on commuters, to the sum of probably £200 per month and possible airport transfer costs (to get to LTN/STN) and hours of time. The loss of ST will mean that hundreds of those deemed to be strikers will have to give up their jobs and further hasten the introduction of New Fleet.
BASSA are finished, imho.
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Looking at the recent update on the ESS homepage, I think we can clear up who would be punished in terms of a loss of ST in the event of a strike...
The letter adds that if a strike occurs, crew taking part would lose:
The letter adds that if a strike occurs, crew taking part would lose:
- pay and associated days off for duties missed because of strike action
- eligibility to staff travel benefits.
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And to think I used to have to live where I worked! This Staff Travel thing is a bit of a revelation, folks. No wonder some people are a bit excited about any potential loss of such a facility. 
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This is seriously getting out of hand and should have been stopped a long time ago. When reading messages at BASSA and CREW FORUM it really puts me in a lousy and furious mood for numerous reasons. I'm seriously concerned about my blood pressure. Are they for real? What are they thinking? What are they thinking WITH?
I have seen nothing but arrogance and incompetence from BASSA. I don't trust them for a second that they know what they are doing or that they will pull this off. They have placed themselves and many of their members in a corner. It is beyond me that people can have any faith left in BASSA and trust all the rubbish propaganda they are being fed with. How can people still have faith in Lizanne after her fiasco last year when encouraging VR crew to vote? Some defend her by saying she's not a legal person but a chairman of a trade union should know those things. I'm not a legal person either but I used common sense and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be eligible to vote!
When I get my ballot paper I will vote NO. After that I will resign from BASSA, after having been a member with them since '92, and make a saving of £180 a year. I honestly feel I'm better on my own than being represented by something which can doubtly call themselves a union. Should I ever need assistance in the future I will get help somewhere else.
BASSA showed me their true colours when one of their reps accused me of wanting to destroy the company as my hubby is a pilot. Luckily I was born with the ability of using my vocabulary quickly and the knowledge of how to defend myself.
I am more than tempted to walk pass the picket line when going to work but I doubt it would be near T5. I have nothing to be ashamed of and crew saying they have a long memory and will remember all of us strike breakers don't scare me. And I have another 30 years before retirement!
Hoping to see you all (except for my husband because he'll make a mess in the galley)!
WW Purser
I have seen nothing but arrogance and incompetence from BASSA. I don't trust them for a second that they know what they are doing or that they will pull this off. They have placed themselves and many of their members in a corner. It is beyond me that people can have any faith left in BASSA and trust all the rubbish propaganda they are being fed with. How can people still have faith in Lizanne after her fiasco last year when encouraging VR crew to vote? Some defend her by saying she's not a legal person but a chairman of a trade union should know those things. I'm not a legal person either but I used common sense and came to the conclusion that they wouldn't be eligible to vote!
When I get my ballot paper I will vote NO. After that I will resign from BASSA, after having been a member with them since '92, and make a saving of £180 a year. I honestly feel I'm better on my own than being represented by something which can doubtly call themselves a union. Should I ever need assistance in the future I will get help somewhere else.
BASSA showed me their true colours when one of their reps accused me of wanting to destroy the company as my hubby is a pilot. Luckily I was born with the ability of using my vocabulary quickly and the knowledge of how to defend myself.
I am more than tempted to walk pass the picket line when going to work but I doubt it would be near T5. I have nothing to be ashamed of and crew saying they have a long memory and will remember all of us strike breakers don't scare me. And I have another 30 years before retirement!
Hoping to see you all (except for my husband because he'll make a mess in the galley)!
WW Purser
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A comment on Unite's website states BA will employ "Scab Crew" to operate flights. After reading that and being a member of another union under Unite's banner; I find that comment just about sums this pathetic Union up, What an insult. I want to keep my job , to support my partner and our 8 week old girl. Im a lot of things but not a "scab". Just saved £11 a month on union deductions from my payroll. Other colleagues feel the same. The union is losing members and money.
Its not the BA crew who need to grow up, but the union reps and leaders.
This company is close to doing a "JAL" but we wont be taken over by our government to restructure......... we will just be signing on the dole instead
Its not the BA crew who need to grow up, but the union reps and leaders.
This company is close to doing a "JAL" but we wont be taken over by our government to restructure......... we will just be signing on the dole instead
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papillon post2728
Quote:
Wrong - the letter says should you vote yes and go on strike
Since the company cannot know whether you as an individual have voted 'yes' or 'no' this clearly applies in the wider sense.
If, as a group, you vote to strike you each, individually, lose ST.
Hope that clears it up.
Not necessarily. It won't be hard for the company to see who comes into work and who doesn't. Those that don't will presumably be the ones who lose out. BA aren't going to penalise those who make the effort to come in.
sorry still haven't figured the quote mechanism properly.
actualyy, BA will know who is strikig. if the vote is yes, that means all unite members are expected to strike. bassa subs are deducted from BA payroll. so in black and white if you are in bassa, and the vote is yes, BA can assume you are striking, and will act accordingly. amicus members have the option of direct debit. which in this scenario seems to provide more of an option for the wannabee yes voter/non striker.
Quote:
Wrong - the letter says should you vote yes and go on strike
Since the company cannot know whether you as an individual have voted 'yes' or 'no' this clearly applies in the wider sense.
If, as a group, you vote to strike you each, individually, lose ST.
Hope that clears it up.
Not necessarily. It won't be hard for the company to see who comes into work and who doesn't. Those that don't will presumably be the ones who lose out. BA aren't going to penalise those who make the effort to come in.
sorry still haven't figured the quote mechanism properly.
actualyy, BA will know who is strikig. if the vote is yes, that means all unite members are expected to strike. bassa subs are deducted from BA payroll. so in black and white if you are in bassa, and the vote is yes, BA can assume you are striking, and will act accordingly. amicus members have the option of direct debit. which in this scenario seems to provide more of an option for the wannabee yes voter/non striker.
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All points taken on board.
I was playing devil's advocate.I was also speaking personally.
If I were thinking of striking ,the loss of staff travel would not bother me as I never use it.
I went to Australia recently and paid full fare as we all know the chances of getting on those flights are non existant.
However,if my actions meant that my colleagues who depend on staff travel would lose it through my actions we have emotional blackmail!!
Clever deal isn't it?
I was playing devil's advocate.I was also speaking personally.
If I were thinking of striking ,the loss of staff travel would not bother me as I never use it.
I went to Australia recently and paid full fare as we all know the chances of getting on those flights are non existant.
However,if my actions meant that my colleagues who depend on staff travel would lose it through my actions we have emotional blackmail!!
Clever deal isn't it?
Last edited by 617sqn; 22nd Jan 2010 at 18:18.
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BAcrewboy
Well done BAcrewboy! (Check your Private messages!) I've had major hang ups like yourself in revoking my membership (is that the right word) but I have heard they have lost quite a number of members. And if you forget the bassa/crewforum there are a lot of crew who are either dead against striking or even the ones who will strike are confused and feel let down but are doing it just to follow the union as they don't want to step out of line!
I am supportive of the new PCCC, which has been set up with some crew on here who have v.sensible minds - after Unite embarass us all once again and PCCC are given more ''airtime'' if you like I'm sure many crew will leave Unite and join pccc in their droves!
I am supportive of the new PCCC, which has been set up with some crew on here who have v.sensible minds - after Unite embarass us all once again and PCCC are given more ''airtime'' if you like I'm sure many crew will leave Unite and join pccc in their droves!
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Let's just, for a moment, consider a hypothetical example.
If you commute from LAX to LHR, on a 50% contract and have union business also in LHR [for which the union members pay you £100 per day, allegedly] and have been off sick for a year but have recently returned to work, then your commute costs have been about £100 per month. Of course, if you happened to be connected to a union you probably rarely (if ever) travel in the class your ticket entitles you to, and end up being 'comfortable'.
What may the future hold?
Well, a hotline/cheap seat will probably cost £400 return, and current emotions will probably result in any attempt to make the journey more 'comfortable' be a reportable incident, and therefore be in a different class of travel! So, a bit of a change!
Compare this to you commuter from xxx (anywhere from Manchester to Glasgow to Nice to Barcelona) with no Staff Travel.
4 reports a month on Longhaul (more on Shorthaul). Instead of £50 return it's now £80 (but several missed flights due late inbound) so either more fares of many more hours waiting to get home) and either way, probably £200+ per month extra and 20 hours fewer at home - every month.
Do the sums, folks!
If you commute from LAX to LHR, on a 50% contract and have union business also in LHR [for which the union members pay you £100 per day, allegedly] and have been off sick for a year but have recently returned to work, then your commute costs have been about £100 per month. Of course, if you happened to be connected to a union you probably rarely (if ever) travel in the class your ticket entitles you to, and end up being 'comfortable'.
What may the future hold?
Well, a hotline/cheap seat will probably cost £400 return, and current emotions will probably result in any attempt to make the journey more 'comfortable' be a reportable incident, and therefore be in a different class of travel! So, a bit of a change!
Compare this to you commuter from xxx (anywhere from Manchester to Glasgow to Nice to Barcelona) with no Staff Travel.
4 reports a month on Longhaul (more on Shorthaul). Instead of £50 return it's now £80 (but several missed flights due late inbound) so either more fares of many more hours waiting to get home) and either way, probably £200+ per month extra and 20 hours fewer at home - every month.
Do the sums, folks!
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i am sure that the British Media are monitoring this thread, and taking note of the way things may be moving.
Of course, it's only the Internet ... but somehow I'm getting genuine feelings from reading this daily.
[I'm only a paying customer, so what do I know?]
Of course, it's only the Internet ... but somehow I'm getting genuine feelings from reading this daily.
[I'm only a paying customer, so what do I know?]
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I think BASSA, frankly, are toast, they really are lacking in any strategy/end game. Also, I don't know why BA do not just 'bin' CC89 at this stage.
Blair et al have clearly reneged on the original raison d'etre and purpose of why they were set up. They are now one and the same as BASSA and frankly an irrelevance with no clout, little support/base and frankly diluting the time of BA. Why bother dealing with two TUs when they are clearly the same and BA are providing facilities x2, allowing reps x 2 etc etc etc
They serve no purpose and are more dead than BASSA !! BV shud keep to being a local councillor !
www.westfieldvillage.co.uk/councillors
BA, show your mettle and finish this once and for all, please don't do a 'mike street' !!
Blair et al have clearly reneged on the original raison d'etre and purpose of why they were set up. They are now one and the same as BASSA and frankly an irrelevance with no clout, little support/base and frankly diluting the time of BA. Why bother dealing with two TUs when they are clearly the same and BA are providing facilities x2, allowing reps x 2 etc etc etc
They serve no purpose and are more dead than BASSA !! BV shud keep to being a local councillor !
www.westfieldvillage.co.uk/councillors
BA, show your mettle and finish this once and for all, please don't do a 'mike street' !!
Last edited by TOM100; 22nd Jan 2010 at 19:33.
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The disgraceful behavior of the union is threatening the viability and survival of our airline, I have written to my MP denouncing such behavior as a direct threat to my livelihood and those of my colleagues.
This charade has to stop!
This charade has to stop!
I believe the Guardian is to do a piece tomorrow about pilots supporting BA's efforts to keep the business going during any strike. Apparently it won't be complimentary.
I wonder who put them up to that then?
I wonder who put them up to that then?
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This is already over. If the strike goes ahead, BA will destroy BASSA and the militant tendency - and it may well then damage the T & Cs and incomes of everyone else. If there isn't a strike, then BASSA have shot their bolt and will never again be able to challenge BA, because BA can make the same threats in future.
Long term, a strike may even be in BA's interest, oddly enough. But it certainly isn't in the crew's. Time to pull back ladies and gents, before you wreck what you have.
Long term, a strike may even be in BA's interest, oddly enough. But it certainly isn't in the crew's. Time to pull back ladies and gents, before you wreck what you have.
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I believe the Guardian is to do a piece tomorrow about pilots supporting BA's efforts to keep the business going during any strike. Apparently it won't be complimentary.
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Unfortunately it would appear that BASSA have reached terminal velocity on this issue - whatever BA does or says infuriates the cabin crew even more.. I don't see an easy way out of this unless Unite pulls the plug on BASSA.. very unlikely!
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I hear BASSA have placed an advert in The New Statesmen magazine (wide audience reach there then) claiming they are the best cabin crew in the world. Rather presumptuous. Perhaps it's a mistake and they meant to say best paid cabin crew in the world.