British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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The bottom line is that BA crew are paid too much. If any of you were to be honest, you would agree. How can a nurse be paid so much less than a steward(ess) ? It is ludicrous, and is the main reason that BA are in trouble.
Virgin are paid half, and do not moan. Terms and conditions DO need to change. When the company goes bust, will that make you all happy. No job for all, is that what you really want. Please please wake up - realise the world is in recession.
Virgin are paid half, and do not moan. Terms and conditions DO need to change. When the company goes bust, will that make you all happy. No job for all, is that what you really want. Please please wake up - realise the world is in recession.
Join Date: Aug 2009
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BACrewboy makes a lot of very valid points. No one would want to accept their employer arbitrarily going to town on their Ts&Cs, ones that you may have only just signed up for not long ago. I think you should be aware that as it stands, Bill F seems to be offering a lot of protections to your present deal, and, to be honest, it's not people like you he is after reforming.
A.Lurker.
Your comparisons between the various airlines left me thinking that you had left out an important one.
BA LHR vs BA LGW. - Almost identical product, planes, service, etc etc, but very different rostering, pay, agreements etc etc. A harder one to explain away.
A.Lurker.
Your comparisons between the various airlines left me thinking that you had left out an important one.
BA LHR vs BA LGW. - Almost identical product, planes, service, etc etc, but very different rostering, pay, agreements etc etc. A harder one to explain away.
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markymark - I am BA EF crew..joined in 2007 - I can honestly say that I don't think that anyone who joined after 1997 is overpaid. I work for 21 days a month and take home anything between 1200 - 1700 a month (we don't have the wage stability of a nurse). Add to that the fact that we do not get holiday pay, so, if I were to take 2 weeks holiday in a month, I would take home little more than my basic (799 after tax). Add to that the fact that we do not get sick pay so, if I were to be sick for a week, my pay would be seriously affected.
I don't think you have a balanced understanding of the wage structure for BA crew.
Taking your arguement about the nurse
- why should a project manager in-charge of some abstract project in WTS earn more than a nurse?
- why should a pilot earn more than a nurse?
- why should Willie Walsh himself earn more than a nurse?
Perhaps you should take up yor arguement with the NHS and not BA crew??
I don't think you have a balanced understanding of the wage structure for BA crew.
Taking your arguement about the nurse
- why should a project manager in-charge of some abstract project in WTS earn more than a nurse?
- why should a pilot earn more than a nurse?
- why should Willie Walsh himself earn more than a nurse?
Perhaps you should take up yor arguement with the NHS and not BA crew??
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Markymark - One last point - the wages of BA crew are far from being the main reason that BA is in trouble:
Global Recession
Huge reduction in premium traffic
Hedging fuel at the wrong price
Fuel sur-charging fines
The MASSIVE salary of our CEO (in comparision with his worldwide counterparts)
The old-style civil-service nature of the company as a whole.
And Virgin crew do moan - quite regularly, and, in some aspects quite rightly - remember it wasn't long ago that they were threatening a strike.
Global Recession
Huge reduction in premium traffic
Hedging fuel at the wrong price
Fuel sur-charging fines
The MASSIVE salary of our CEO (in comparision with his worldwide counterparts)
The old-style civil-service nature of the company as a whole.
And Virgin crew do moan - quite regularly, and, in some aspects quite rightly - remember it wasn't long ago that they were threatening a strike.
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BA Boy ... We all go the extra mile from time to time i just don't feel the need to shout about it.As someone pointed out yesterday self praise is NO praise.This is the sort of thing that does amuse me about some of our cabin crew the self praise the need for constant recognition because they are doing what they are employed to do.
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BA Crewboy
I dont have an argument at all -
The other people you mention in your post are prof highly qualified individuals
Once again, that 'moaning, woe is me' attitude appears. Its so simple. If you do not like the job, please, do something else and let another individual travel around the world and enjoy their job.
You are not, as you think, indespensilble. The sooner you realise that, the better., There will always be thousands that will take the job at the drop of a hat.
I dont have an argument at all -
The other people you mention in your post are prof highly qualified individuals
Once again, that 'moaning, woe is me' attitude appears. Its so simple. If you do not like the job, please, do something else and let another individual travel around the world and enjoy their job.
You are not, as you think, indespensilble. The sooner you realise that, the better., There will always be thousands that will take the job at the drop of a hat.
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What I am employed to do is to give a wholly inferior service to our loyal, paying customers - what I do in reality is strive to do the best I can on every sector. BTW - I do think that any crew who are involved in any kind of emergency should be praised in the highest.
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What's with the beating up on BA Crewboy? He's been very reasonable throughout, there's no need to jump down his throat. If you don't agree with him, there's no need to have such a go at him.
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Markymark - you have got me so wrong - I don't think that you have read many of my other posts on here and I am sure that many here will defend me. We too are a group of professional, trained people. I will not accept the argument that we are simply waiters/esses in the sky.
I am not moaning, I do not feel in the slightest woeful. As you rightly say, there are many who would want my job - but many that are not good enough. If I didn't enjoy my job, I would take myself, and my Bristol University First in Philosophy and Economics and work somewhere else. However, I do enjoy my job and will not have it run to the ground. Please be reminded that I DO NOT support a strike.
I am not moaning, I do not feel in the slightest woeful. As you rightly say, there are many who would want my job - but many that are not good enough. If I didn't enjoy my job, I would take myself, and my Bristol University First in Philosophy and Economics and work somewhere else. However, I do enjoy my job and will not have it run to the ground. Please be reminded that I DO NOT support a strike.
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Some interesting info that has come out of the new documents released.
So;
a) When arguments about low basic pay are put, these are the figures to add on.
b) If you are crew and getting less than this average, someone else is getting more. You are obviously not bribing the right person
Regarding the proposed New Fleet;
- Might scare a few...
- interesting! So they don't want any old crew just being able to slide straight across in to the Cabin Manager / Crew role, only pro-customer on-side people..
- that would put some existing crew off.
- No more Wimbledon instead of Lagos if a cash bonus is your aim
- BASSA-WW still trying to dump the 76 on EF!, have they asked EF yet?
"allowance payments have progressed to a 16k per annum average on WW and 12k per annum of Eurofleet."
a) When arguments about low basic pay are put, these are the figures to add on.
b) If you are crew and getting less than this average, someone else is getting more. You are obviously not bribing the right person
Regarding the proposed New Fleet;
Recogniton to the best performers, consequences for those who do not perform
Internals: apply do not transfer
will have IFA every 30 days
The total pay target is market rate (+ 10%), making the reward package attractive to LGW and other airline crew. (Source: BCG and HewiU Consultancy)
Cabin Crew Bonus: 100% punctuality & attendance requirement.
Other Issues raised by the Union during discussions
The company are willing to engage in further discussions with the trade union regarding all other items that have been raised during talks.
Eg: back to backs, ground productivity, All 767s in to EF
The company are willing to engage in further discussions with the trade union regarding all other items that have been raised during talks.
Eg: back to backs, ground productivity, All 767s in to EF
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@ BACrewboy
I'll give you the first two and the last one. The fuel hedging, surcharge fines are BASSA propaganda and have been discussed and dismissed here many times. The CEO salary is a drop in the ocean and also a red herring.
Global Recession
Huge reduction in premium traffic
Hedging fuel at the wrong price
Fuel sur-charging fines
The MASSIVE salary of our CEO (in comparision with his worldwide counterparts)
The old-style civil-service nature of the company as a whole.
Huge reduction in premium traffic
Hedging fuel at the wrong price
Fuel sur-charging fines
The MASSIVE salary of our CEO (in comparision with his worldwide counterparts)
The old-style civil-service nature of the company as a whole.
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I think that the company should have one supervisory role on each flight.
Weed out the poor performers,that would give people like BA Boy the chance of some promotion.However the onboard supervisors would need to start to performance mange their crew,very few do this.
Weed out the poor performers,that would give people like BA Boy the chance of some promotion.However the onboard supervisors would need to start to performance mange their crew,very few do this.
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Weathermap - it would be soooo difficult to manage a 747 with jus one seniorin 4 cabins! I do think that lots of our seniors need to go though, and am looking forward to that promotion!
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On a 747 you could have a supervisor in WT and the onboard manger looking after the first and club cabins .The main crew should be relied upon to perform also have a mixture of experience in each area, they don't need a PSR to run the show. No other airline operates like this.
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BA Crew Bay
I agree with most of your comments but it is a little misleading when you say stated you are not paid for holidays and sickness days.
I presume you mean you still get your basic pay when you take your holidays or have to go sick but not a part of the £12000 pa in allowances that it has been suggested that euro fleet receive on average above their basic pay.
Why should you get allowances if you are not earning them by flying? That has always been the case, you have to fly to earn the very generous extra payments.
You cannot compare your occupation with the professional work that nurses do. It takes them more than 5 weeks to become the professionals that they are.
I say that with the greatest of respect and feel I can because I too was cabin crew for a very long time.
I was in a hospital A & E a few days ago and the nurses were continually on their feet working, no 90 minute meal breaks, bunk rests or pulling the curtains across and hiding from the patients, pure hard work with a tremendous team spirit. They unlike cabin crew are vital workers.
Your low c/c basic pay and high supplementary payments are something Bassa seems in favour of. That does not help your pensionable pay when the time comes, beleive me.
It is nice to read your balanced views, best of luck.
I agree with most of your comments but it is a little misleading when you say stated you are not paid for holidays and sickness days.
I presume you mean you still get your basic pay when you take your holidays or have to go sick but not a part of the £12000 pa in allowances that it has been suggested that euro fleet receive on average above their basic pay.
Why should you get allowances if you are not earning them by flying? That has always been the case, you have to fly to earn the very generous extra payments.
You cannot compare your occupation with the professional work that nurses do. It takes them more than 5 weeks to become the professionals that they are.
I say that with the greatest of respect and feel I can because I too was cabin crew for a very long time.
I was in a hospital A & E a few days ago and the nurses were continually on their feet working, no 90 minute meal breaks, bunk rests or pulling the curtains across and hiding from the patients, pure hard work with a tremendous team spirit. They unlike cabin crew are vital workers.
Your low c/c basic pay and high supplementary payments are something Bassa seems in favour of. That does not help your pensionable pay when the time comes, beleive me.
It is nice to read your balanced views, best of luck.
Last edited by Jean-Lill; 25th Jan 2010 at 00:38. Reason: missed something/mistake
