British Airways - CC Industrial Relations Mk V
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This is now going beyond absurd...
I mean we have on here, Romans & co. saying they haven't been proved wrong, but where are their facts?
Can the BASSA supporters provide examples of where BA have imposed the DA? Have they read the ESS forum where there are several WW CSDs saying a) BASSA should have agreed the DA and b) BA have not imposed the DA, and c) CSDs have not been asked to operate with less than normal crew complements, etc?
So, I'm afraid that unless they can provide contrary evidence, then it does mean that BASSA are rabble-rousing and using this extreme weather as yet another excuse to stir support for their ridiculous cause. Romans actually states that BASSA SHOULD have implemented the DA, but yet is prepared to defend them to the hilt for not doing so.
Then we have statements like "people have died fighting for their cause". I mean is this serious? Yes, people have died trying to get minority groups the right to vote, freedom of speech, fighting dictatorships, World Wars, etc. To my knowledge, no-one has died because of working a little bit harder on an airbus or a boeing.
The frightening thing is that some of these BASSA inspired people seriously think that their cause (let's remind ourselves again of this wholly worthwhile cause - ONE CREW MEMBER OFF AN AEROPLANE) is on a par.
And then we have on other forums (fora?) BASSA indoctrinated folk now blaming BA for the disruption and how they are now having to deal with angry customers, due to yes...BA's incompetence. Que?
Are there any psychologists out there who can make head or tail of it? I am genuinely concerned that this is now seriously out of control. The deep-seated anger towards anyone and everyone who disagrees with their point of view is actually incomprehensible. It is also rather worrying for those of us who have to work alongside them.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
I mean we have on here, Romans & co. saying they haven't been proved wrong, but where are their facts?
Can the BASSA supporters provide examples of where BA have imposed the DA? Have they read the ESS forum where there are several WW CSDs saying a) BASSA should have agreed the DA and b) BA have not imposed the DA, and c) CSDs have not been asked to operate with less than normal crew complements, etc?
So, I'm afraid that unless they can provide contrary evidence, then it does mean that BASSA are rabble-rousing and using this extreme weather as yet another excuse to stir support for their ridiculous cause. Romans actually states that BASSA SHOULD have implemented the DA, but yet is prepared to defend them to the hilt for not doing so.
Then we have statements like "people have died fighting for their cause". I mean is this serious? Yes, people have died trying to get minority groups the right to vote, freedom of speech, fighting dictatorships, World Wars, etc. To my knowledge, no-one has died because of working a little bit harder on an airbus or a boeing.
The frightening thing is that some of these BASSA inspired people seriously think that their cause (let's remind ourselves again of this wholly worthwhile cause - ONE CREW MEMBER OFF AN AEROPLANE) is on a par.
And then we have on other forums (fora?) BASSA indoctrinated folk now blaming BA for the disruption and how they are now having to deal with angry customers, due to yes...BA's incompetence. Que?
Are there any psychologists out there who can make head or tail of it? I am genuinely concerned that this is now seriously out of control. The deep-seated anger towards anyone and everyone who disagrees with their point of view is actually incomprehensible. It is also rather worrying for those of us who have to work alongside them.
I am BA cabin crew and this is my own view and not that of BA.
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The Tiresome1
Heaven forfend, customers! Who are they, what role do they have in all this? Get real the last person on the BASSA radar is the person who pays for their current lifestyle. The only time the customer comes into play is when they try use them as pawns in their particular game of chess. Otherwise they are an inconvenience. To be fair the vast majority of cabin crew do not have that mindset just the inner sanctum.
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TruBlu123 - I couldn't possibly comment.
However, it will be the customers who bring this farrago to an end, by simply going elsewhere.
BASSA and BA can then fade into history, along with all those other carriers in recent years.
"Slow-Motion Train Crash" is the phrase, isn't it?
However, it will be the customers who bring this farrago to an end, by simply going elsewhere.
BASSA and BA can then fade into history, along with all those other carriers in recent years.
"Slow-Motion Train Crash" is the phrase, isn't it?
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Highflyer
we are just going around in a circle here..read the previous posts.
Or refer to page 76 of our agreement.
The disruption agreement was not agreed. It is as simple as that. How can I prove it?
If you have access to the BASSA website then please go there and read the news section of the site, it is all there in black and white.
Can we move on to next subject now?
we are just going around in a circle here..read the previous posts.
Or refer to page 76 of our agreement.
The disruption agreement was not agreed. It is as simple as that. How can I prove it?
If you have access to the BASSA website then please go there and read the news section of the site, it is all there in black and white.
Can we move on to next subject now?
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What shall we talk about now?
Think the disruption agreement issue has been flogged to death.
Nice to see Romans44 back and perhaps a view could be sought from him.
If the current talks do not reach an agreement and there is a breakdown in negotiations then we are led to believe that BASSA will ballot again as planned.
We are also assured by posters in the "Romans" camp that BASSA will get another mandate for industrial action and that may take the form of a strike or some other measure.
Could I ask, and I have asked you this before, what would you imagine to be the options for BA in response to your strike call. You have the tool to strike, what tools do you feel BA have in retaliation?
Perhaps you could save a few exchanges by skipping the obvious topics "agree to reverse imposition, honour our agreements etc etc"
Seriously, if push came to shove, what do you think BA have up their sleeve and are you ready for it? Do you really want to see their hand?
I really am a polite person and hope that I do not offend but it would be good if we could get some insight into how you see the other side. You appear to hold your employer in very low esteem, the evil employer that has paid your salary every month on the nail for over 20 years and probably popped your family into a "more comfortable seat" when you have taken them away with you on a trip on a few occasions.
Nice to see Romans44 back and perhaps a view could be sought from him.
If the current talks do not reach an agreement and there is a breakdown in negotiations then we are led to believe that BASSA will ballot again as planned.
We are also assured by posters in the "Romans" camp that BASSA will get another mandate for industrial action and that may take the form of a strike or some other measure.
Could I ask, and I have asked you this before, what would you imagine to be the options for BA in response to your strike call. You have the tool to strike, what tools do you feel BA have in retaliation?
Perhaps you could save a few exchanges by skipping the obvious topics "agree to reverse imposition, honour our agreements etc etc"
Seriously, if push came to shove, what do you think BA have up their sleeve and are you ready for it? Do you really want to see their hand?
I really am a polite person and hope that I do not offend but it would be good if we could get some insight into how you see the other side. You appear to hold your employer in very low esteem, the evil employer that has paid your salary every month on the nail for over 20 years and probably popped your family into a "more comfortable seat" when you have taken them away with you on a trip on a few occasions.
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Think the disruption agreement issue has been flogged to death.
Nice to see Romans44 back and perhaps a view could be sought from him.
If the current talks do not reach an agreement and there is a breakdown in negotiations then we are led to believe that BASSA will ballot again as planned.
We are also assured by posters in the "Romans" camp that BASSA will get another mandate for industrial action and that may take the form of a strike or some other measure.
Could I ask, and I have asked you this before, what would you imagine to be the options for BA in response to your strike call. You have the tool to strike, what tools do you feel BA have in retaliation?
Perhaps you could save a few exchanges by skipping the obvious topics "agree to reverse imposition, honour our agreements etc etc"
Seriously, if push came to shove, what do you think BA have up their sleeve and are you ready for it? Do you really want to see their hand?
I really am a polite person and hope that I do not offend but it would be good if we could get some insight into how you see the other side. You appear to hold your employer in very low esteem, the evil employer that has paid your salary every month on the nail for over 20 years and probably popped your family into a "more comfortable seat" when you have taken them away with you on a trip on a few occasions
Nice to see Romans44 back and perhaps a view could be sought from him.
If the current talks do not reach an agreement and there is a breakdown in negotiations then we are led to believe that BASSA will ballot again as planned.
We are also assured by posters in the "Romans" camp that BASSA will get another mandate for industrial action and that may take the form of a strike or some other measure.
Could I ask, and I have asked you this before, what would you imagine to be the options for BA in response to your strike call. You have the tool to strike, what tools do you feel BA have in retaliation?
Perhaps you could save a few exchanges by skipping the obvious topics "agree to reverse imposition, honour our agreements etc etc"
Seriously, if push came to shove, what do you think BA have up their sleeve and are you ready for it? Do you really want to see their hand?
I really am a polite person and hope that I do not offend but it would be good if we could get some insight into how you see the other side. You appear to hold your employer in very low esteem, the evil employer that has paid your salary every month on the nail for over 20 years and probably popped your family into a "more comfortable seat" when you have taken them away with you on a trip on a few occasions
Please rest assure that I have given plenty in the last 20 years including loyalty, I know it sounds strange that such a terrible person like me could in fact be a loyal one but it is true, I am.
I am very proud to be part of this family, however that is not to say that I will let anyone destroy what I have without putting up a fight.
How could I possibly know what they have in store for us?
Do you honestly think that if I did I would keep it a secret?
Yes, of course they will have a plan 'B' but that is for them to know and for us to find out.
Are we ready for it? Guess we need to wait and see.
Junior trash
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however that is not to say that I will let anyone destroy what I have without putting up a fight.
The only people likely to destroy everything you have are the BASSA leadership.
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You have got to look ahead
Hi Romans
I think that is where I have a different view.
You are really saying that you feel that you are happy to cross that bridge when you come to it.
Surely in any dispute you should consider the "What ifs". Just think about all the ways that it could pan out and make a decision based on that. I think the BA plan 'B' or maybe 'Z' might resemble a Chieftan Tank.
You seem to be betting the farm on this without considering the downside.
Just an opinion but I think I will have some support in my view.
Yes, of course they will have a plan 'B' but that is for them to know and for us to find out.
Are we ready for it? Guess we need to wait and see.
Are we ready for it? Guess we need to wait and see.
You are really saying that you feel that you are happy to cross that bridge when you come to it.
Surely in any dispute you should consider the "What ifs". Just think about all the ways that it could pan out and make a decision based on that. I think the BA plan 'B' or maybe 'Z' might resemble a Chieftan Tank.
You seem to be betting the farm on this without considering the downside.
Just an opinion but I think I will have some support in my view.
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Just an opinion but I think I will have some support in my view
I was brought up believing that bullying is not the way forward and always to stand up to them.
I have given plenty of thoughts about the consequences of an industrial action, please give me more credit than that. I know that many people on this forum have a very low opinion about cabin crew but please don't brush an entire comunity with the same brush. I am sure your partner would agree with that.
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I know that many people on this forum have a very low opinion about cabin crew
Most people on this forum have no problem with cabin crew. It's BASSA they/we have a problem with.
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I was brought up believing that bullying is not the way forward and always to stand up to them
Romans44, with all due respect (and if you can handle this without curling up in the corner crying), you really are a numpty making yet another statement like this trying to pull the bullying card. I don't know who you're trying to fool. Pathetic.
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from Bassa 's statement re Disruption Agreement
He has asked for flexibility ............................
..................... disruption agreement at LHR has NOT been agreed
So there is confirmation in Bassa's own words that they declined to agree to implement the DA during this severe weather.
Romans
You must know that Bassa are leading you using the wrong strategy.
Even in their latest statement they say
Please be reassured we are comfortable with where we are, we are exploring all options but we will not deviate from what you have already requested us to achieve.
which means what exactly??
He has asked for flexibility ............................
..................... disruption agreement at LHR has NOT been agreed
So there is confirmation in Bassa's own words that they declined to agree to implement the DA during this severe weather.
Romans
You must know that Bassa are leading you using the wrong strategy.
Even in their latest statement they say
Please be reassured we are comfortable with where we are, we are exploring all options but we will not deviate from what you have already requested us to achieve.
which means what exactly??
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The ballot has to go ahead regardless. If we lose the court case the company will be playing dirty again we need the ballot to fall back on. Trust this lot as your peril.
Nice attitude!
Nice attitude!
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There should be a career path which could allow a cabin crew member to be on the Boar
There has always been a career path for cabin crew to reach senior management positions in BA. Joy Hordern who was Head of Cabin Services was a crew member.
The current IFCE Senior Management Team is actually predominantly made up of Senior Managers who used to be Cabin Crew.
Sally Munro-Smith - Manager Transformational Change
Glenn Reynolds - Manager Eurofleet
Anne Bell - Manager Safety and Quality
Mike Grimes - Manager Gatwick Fleet
Tony Smith - Senior HR Business Partner
All of the above used to fly and have gone on to be Senior Managers managing IFCE. Bill Francis was determined to appoint ex crew in his team. Thats probably why there is so much happening! As these people know exactly what the crew lifestyle, culture, salaries etc are first hand and know what needs to change.
Know matter whether there was a career path for crew right up to the board - most crew have absolutely know respect for anyone who works on the ground let alone those who have manager in their job title.
Crew have always believed that they are untouchable - our time has now come to get in the real world. One crew member less is not an issue atall and most of us know it.
I voted NO last ballot and I feel even stronger about it this time. The UNION are behaving apallingly and I know once I have voted NO again I will resign from BASSA as indeed will many crew.
The current IFCE Senior Management Team is actually predominantly made up of Senior Managers who used to be Cabin Crew.
Sally Munro-Smith - Manager Transformational Change
Glenn Reynolds - Manager Eurofleet
Anne Bell - Manager Safety and Quality
Mike Grimes - Manager Gatwick Fleet
Tony Smith - Senior HR Business Partner
All of the above used to fly and have gone on to be Senior Managers managing IFCE. Bill Francis was determined to appoint ex crew in his team. Thats probably why there is so much happening! As these people know exactly what the crew lifestyle, culture, salaries etc are first hand and know what needs to change.
Know matter whether there was a career path for crew right up to the board - most crew have absolutely know respect for anyone who works on the ground let alone those who have manager in their job title.
Crew have always believed that they are untouchable - our time has now come to get in the real world. One crew member less is not an issue atall and most of us know it.
I voted NO last ballot and I feel even stronger about it this time. The UNION are behaving apallingly and I know once I have voted NO again I will resign from BASSA as indeed will many crew.
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So there is confirmation in Bassa's own words that they declined to agree to implement the DA during this severe weather.
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I voted NO last ballot and I feel even stronger about it this time. The UNION are behaving apallingly and I know once I have voted NO again I will resign from BASSA as indeed will many crew.
I am one of the few who voted yes and believe me I feel so much stronger about it this time around.
Funny you say that many crew will leave BASSA, are u including the 90+% who voted yes?
how many of you voted no?
remind me again?
I guess, we would have to wait and see.
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Ciaotasso, you should have left last time around, the attitude of the union has not changed and won t change until they are destroyed or Ba is destroyed, spend you £15 on something else more useful. I have!
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romans44
BASSA are bullies, very personal and can actually be quite nasty.......just look at the CF/BASSA forum - do they moderate this out ?? Nope......
They walk out of meetings, turn up an hour late, text thru/during meetings, spout 70's rhetoric, totally unprepared, argue/sl*g off CC89/Blair/AW (until recently becoming bosom buddies) and villify Willie Walsh et al in a very personal way - this is Ok with you is it ? Vote @no negotiation", then "no negotiation with imposition" but UNITE quickly and correctly override this. Refuse to activate DA with worst weather conditions for decades, vote to ruin hard working peoples' Christmas plans.......Conduct of a forward thinking, progressive, customer focused TU, securing the long term future of its members.....with principles that does not bully and harrass (sp) ??
BASSA are bullies, very personal and can actually be quite nasty.......just look at the CF/BASSA forum - do they moderate this out ?? Nope......
They walk out of meetings, turn up an hour late, text thru/during meetings, spout 70's rhetoric, totally unprepared, argue/sl*g off CC89/Blair/AW (until recently becoming bosom buddies) and villify Willie Walsh et al in a very personal way - this is Ok with you is it ? Vote @no negotiation", then "no negotiation with imposition" but UNITE quickly and correctly override this. Refuse to activate DA with worst weather conditions for decades, vote to ruin hard working peoples' Christmas plans.......Conduct of a forward thinking, progressive, customer focused TU, securing the long term future of its members.....with principles that does not bully and harrass (sp) ??