British Airways - CC Industrial Relations & Negotiations
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How about a pilot with a degree in Computer programming and Information Technology plus a Master of Business Administration?
All very useful in my role as an overpaid stick monkey who couldn't have made it as a vet.
You choose the path that suits you best and, to be honest, the Lawyers, Vets and doctors can get insurance against any major screw up, for Pilots it is a bit difficult to walk away from a bad crash!
Forgot to add, the above stated qualifications refer to starting a course after 'A' levels. Anyone can start training to become a Doctor/Lawyer/Dentist/Vet excetera. As long as you can pay for your course and pass the yearly exams then you don't need any previous qualification. Just the ability to fund your course!
All very useful in my role as an overpaid stick monkey who couldn't have made it as a vet.
You choose the path that suits you best and, to be honest, the Lawyers, Vets and doctors can get insurance against any major screw up, for Pilots it is a bit difficult to walk away from a bad crash!
Forgot to add, the above stated qualifications refer to starting a course after 'A' levels. Anyone can start training to become a Doctor/Lawyer/Dentist/Vet excetera. As long as you can pay for your course and pass the yearly exams then you don't need any previous qualification. Just the ability to fund your course!
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911SLF
You will find that there is a certain antipathy between either side of the cockpit door in most large airlines. cf the United diversion a few weeks ago.
Why? Some CC only see the pilots in cruise apparently not doing much. They do not see them at T/O and Landing, in the simulator, having medicals etc. And there is the green eye over pay. On the other side some pilots feel that some CC have been elevated to a position and pay level and perk level that they feel is not justified by the nature of what is, for the majority of the time, a catering service job.
BD
You will find that there is a certain antipathy between either side of the cockpit door in most large airlines. cf the United diversion a few weeks ago.
Why? Some CC only see the pilots in cruise apparently not doing much. They do not see them at T/O and Landing, in the simulator, having medicals etc. And there is the green eye over pay. On the other side some pilots feel that some CC have been elevated to a position and pay level and perk level that they feel is not justified by the nature of what is, for the majority of the time, a catering service job.
BD
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It is worth noting that the 62 weeks initial training you refer to for pilots is continuous, so there are no university length holidays built in, as there are with doctors' and lawyers' training.....my 4 year joint honours degree at The University of Edinburgh was childsplay compared to my flying training. It astounds me that anyone would so arrogantly think they could do what I do and then suggest I get paid too much for it! Is it really as much as 3 weeks training for cabin crew or is that just BA? I believe at Ryanair it is more in line with the duties, so, how to pour coffee, open doors and a day of medical training. Measuring up for the uniform and signing up for the union do not count as training
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Ho Hum, great thread.
..if you have the time, go and have a look at the BASSA Homepage. The website designer has hijacked the Iwo Jima US Marine image from the assault on Mt Suribachi (sp?), February 1942. Appropriate, whaddya think?
..hmm, 3 of the soldiers in the original didn't make it to the end of the war, and the US handed back the island in the end anyway, albeit in 1968!!
nurj
..if you have the time, go and have a look at the BASSA Homepage. The website designer has hijacked the Iwo Jima US Marine image from the assault on Mt Suribachi (sp?), February 1942. Appropriate, whaddya think?
..hmm, 3 of the soldiers in the original didn't make it to the end of the war, and the US handed back the island in the end anyway, albeit in 1968!!
nurj
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3000 crew attending the Bassa meeting.
Bassa and CC89 on the same platform.
Talking about the ' agreement' in place currently of which BA are disregarding at the moment. Talks were not talks, BA stated what they wanted rather than negotiating. We are at the door of where we have to protect what we have now. We all have a vested interest as crew to have the common interest to protect our current contracts.
This is our last chance! If we don't face this then it's all over.
Bassa and CC89 on the same platform.
Talking about the ' agreement' in place currently of which BA are disregarding at the moment. Talks were not talks, BA stated what they wanted rather than negotiating. We are at the door of where we have to protect what we have now. We all have a vested interest as crew to have the common interest to protect our current contracts.
This is our last chance! If we don't face this then it's all over.
Last edited by fly12345; 2nd Nov 2009 at 11:06.
Junior trash
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Nice to see the collective delusion is being maintained. According to the BASSA convener at todays meeting BA wouldnt exist without the current cabin crew and they will only get people for New fleet who "have 1 tooth and are married to their sister". Which must please the LGW crew no end.
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How dare WW think he has the right to manage BA. Just who does he think he is?!?!?!? 
I didn't mean to diverge this thread too much, but the comparison between Pilot/Cabin crew being the same as doctors/nurses was just a little bit too much on both sides. Ok I admit Lawyers.. debatable
Yes I agree the 62 weeks is just the beginning, so is the 6 years for a doctor and the 3 years for a nurse. If an MD wishes to become a surgeon it take at least 4 more, and not every doctor has the skill or aptitude to become a surgeon or consultant.
The comment about Doctors can get insurance to cover them if they screw up on the job and a pilot can't was also a pretty insulting comment to any medical professional out there.
As I said if you want to compare, chose a comparable profession, which equal training and skill being required. Or don't compare. As was said, horses for courses.
Anyway back to the CC discussion... Oh yeah, WW wants to mange the business....... Shock!
CB
"opinions are like A$$holes, eveyone has one!"
I didn't mean to diverge this thread too much, but the comparison between Pilot/Cabin crew being the same as doctors/nurses was just a little bit too much on both sides. Ok I admit Lawyers.. debatable
Yes I agree the 62 weeks is just the beginning, so is the 6 years for a doctor and the 3 years for a nurse. If an MD wishes to become a surgeon it take at least 4 more, and not every doctor has the skill or aptitude to become a surgeon or consultant.
The comment about Doctors can get insurance to cover them if they screw up on the job and a pilot can't was also a pretty insulting comment to any medical professional out there.
As I said if you want to compare, chose a comparable profession, which equal training and skill being required. Or don't compare. As was said, horses for courses.
Anyway back to the CC discussion... Oh yeah, WW wants to mange the business....... Shock!
CB
"opinions are like A$$holes, eveyone has one!"
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Fly12345
What is all over? The fact is you don't know any facts. That is because BASSA don't tell you any facts, the BA CC are like blind sheep being led over a cliff by a progaganda machine run by CSDs, for CSDs simply to protect themselves.
Firstly, you offered a 2.61% pay cut like the pilots, now you have a pay freeze and BASSA are all over the press complaining about the IMPOSITION of a pay freeze - what next, a pay rise??
BASSA have completely lost sight of why these talks are happening in the first place. It's on the news today the BA are set for further losses of over £250m - BASSA tell you everything's fine so you have to fight for what you have.
BASSA are a disgrace.
This is our last chance! If we don't face this then it's all over.
Firstly, you offered a 2.61% pay cut like the pilots, now you have a pay freeze and BASSA are all over the press complaining about the IMPOSITION of a pay freeze - what next, a pay rise??
BASSA have completely lost sight of why these talks are happening in the first place. It's on the news today the BA are set for further losses of over £250m - BASSA tell you everything's fine so you have to fight for what you have.
BASSA are a disgrace.
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My girlfriend is a student doctor, currently in her 4th year of medical school and has 2 years to go, before she even starts the on-the-job training.
I have done a lot of flight training myself (incomplete due to medical complications) and have several friends who have been through Oxford in recent years.
My opinion: The flight training is a complete doddle compared to what a medical student goes through. Medical students do not get the long holidays which normal students get as. They also leave training with a huge amount of debt, the same as many flight crew, but having lost 6 years potential income. A medical degree is the most stressful experience I have ever seen anyone put themselves through.
Those who seem to think that doctors don't continue training or being checked throughout their careers are simply showing their total lack of understanding of the medical profession. Doctors NEVER stop training, from the day they start, to the day they retire.
As for the "insurance against doctors mistakes" comment, what an absolute load of bulls**t. Do you lot not read the news?
I have done a lot of flight training myself (incomplete due to medical complications) and have several friends who have been through Oxford in recent years.
My opinion: The flight training is a complete doddle compared to what a medical student goes through. Medical students do not get the long holidays which normal students get as. They also leave training with a huge amount of debt, the same as many flight crew, but having lost 6 years potential income. A medical degree is the most stressful experience I have ever seen anyone put themselves through.
Those who seem to think that doctors don't continue training or being checked throughout their careers are simply showing their total lack of understanding of the medical profession. Doctors NEVER stop training, from the day they start, to the day they retire.
As for the "insurance against doctors mistakes" comment, what an absolute load of bulls**t. Do you lot not read the news?
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Thread creep:
Doctors, lawyers, nurses et al get to walk away from ineptitude and still have the ability to be hauled before the courts.
Tell that (posthumously) to the crew and passengers of any jet where they end up fatally crashing due to ineptly handled technical failure or just gross pilot error. The skill set of a pilot requires that he/she accepts responsibility for the lives of the entire crew and passengers not just the individual they happen to be treating at the time. A high workload for a LH jet even with todays over automation. For those of you who have only ever had the pleasure of a pressurised Aluminum Tube should have a look at what real flying takes.
End of thread creep.
As for the "insurance against doctors mistakes" comment, what an absolute load of bulls**t. Do you lot not read the news?
Tell that (posthumously) to the crew and passengers of any jet where they end up fatally crashing due to ineptly handled technical failure or just gross pilot error. The skill set of a pilot requires that he/she accepts responsibility for the lives of the entire crew and passengers not just the individual they happen to be treating at the time. A high workload for a LH jet even with todays over automation. For those of you who have only ever had the pleasure of a pressurised Aluminum Tube should have a look at what real flying takes.
End of thread creep.
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Bassa and CC89 on the same platform.
Talks were not talks, BA stated what they wanted rather than negotiating.
BASSA: "Ok We'll give you a third"
What did they really expect?
PS What a nice touch, getting the scheduler who was fired for 'helping' certain crew with their rosters to deliver the ballot notification to BA. The corrupt serving the corrupt.
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"PS What a nice touch, getting the scheduler who was fired for 'helping' certain crew with their rosters to deliver the ballot notification to BA. The corrupt serving the corrupt."
And exactly where did you get that information? Clearly not a reliable source...
And exactly where did you get that information? Clearly not a reliable source...
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They fired him because of helping certain crew with their rosters! CF is a good source. At least one particular member openly says that they tried to get annual leave but no slots were available. Lo and behold, after a message over the forum to this scheduler annual leave was granted with no questions asked.
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At home again after a meaningless meeeting at Sandown Park. Did they actually say anything new? Did they actually say anything that couldn't have been included in a newsletter and saved them a lot of money from renting the race course?