Eastern Australia Airlines

[crew_lj]

Brett on behalf of Qantaslink and the team today, thank you for choosing to not represent us, we hope you've enjoyed screwing us over, and look forward to seeing the back of you when you progress to mainline! In the mean time sit back relax and stand down from your representative position!

[regionalguy]

Keep Trying People, Keep Trying

people, people, people, first warren now brett, i think you should keep trying though you might just get it one day. lets see maybe next post i'll say something supportive about MB and THEN I'll be her !!! the post after that will be supoortive of hmmmmmm i'll just think about it and surprise you. it really could be fun. perhaps a list, yes a list would be good, then you could check it off as you continue to get it wrong, at least that way you'll keep track. just a suggestion,.......its really up to you.

as for lack of support, how many crew actually post on here eaafa ? not bloody many, even in the height of the eba there might have been between 6 and 10 lets see, we've got about 130 - 135 crew so that's somewhere between 4% and 7% at the moment they're is the 4 of you so thats approx 3.5% yep your surrounded by well wishers. and because the crew whose views that i'm reflecting don't actually log in and take the time to put some crappy msg in support of my posts, or sling some s t at you (or who they think you are), you have the insanity to believe that they don't exist ? is that really what you are saying ? if so, that's just impressive ingorance and i'm begining to feel sorry for you, i genuinely am.

your last post really has been one of your more infantile if we look at it from a standpoint of validity. not that the previous ones have been shinning examples either, but that last one really is the cake's icing.

i really want to pay attention to this next bit all of you, i don't want bi's job. i don't want it because i don't have the knowledge, experience, or the wish for grandure and i'm quite happy to say so. i am very happy to come to work, do our thing and go home. i wished we'd been given a better eba, but we didn't and we said no. i don't believe all crew give enough of a toss to fight, nor do i think it would do us any good anyway. the job is going to change whether we like it or not, how smart we are from here on in is up to us.

What i do REALLY object to though is inexperienced, illinformed yet loud mouthed and stupid fools who think they can lead us. that's been my point, only you lot got all hot and bothered because i had the nerve to speak up and say what most in mel are saying behind your backs. think about it, was everyone in mel who wasn't working and not at that meeting honestly been "busy". NO they just weren't interested take that as your vote of confidence save yourself the embarrassment. my tip to you and your buddies.

And its been discussed, if bi progresses over before the eba is done, there are quite a lot of us that will insist the faaa conduct a VOTE for his replacement so at least we will have a say in who the next rep will be and not just the one with the loudest voice, because in this particular case he and his mates don't know what the hell they're talking about. we've heard you, you've made yourselves clear, you won't get our vote i promise.

and as for weakening our cause or dividing the bases, PLEASE give me a break, my views on unity and togetherness are very clear in my previous posts not to mention my views on your little meeting in mel ONLY. that was so futile even i was embarrassed for you.

[lfdlfp]

regionalguy, have you considered counselling? you call people names, spread bull t, can't READ properly, then you describe others as infantile??? is that your idea of encouraging unity and togetherness???
you say one of the things that happened at the meeting was that they "criticised the survey from the union". you yourself said the meeting was on the 22nd of jan. THE SURVEY CAME OUT A WEEK LATER! (and by the way why did it take you so long to react to the meeting. maybe because you're not really in Mel and found out about it later)
you blame AF for the whole TWU idea but someone in Syd came up with that one.
you accuse me for "saying a few choice words about our union rep", then you defend him (yourself?). my note was about DM not BI.
you're obsessed with AF, the MSN crew and the Mel meeting. that is not the feeling among crew. trust me YOU are a minority all to yourself.
why don't we have more meetings so faaa we can be kept in the loop? the biggest problem with this negotiation was that we werent kept in the loop. if we were DM wouldn't have offered us the sunnies eba. does she wonder why she didn't get the right info from her rep on the ground? isn't it his job to tell her what the crew want? (like you?) he thinks he knows what we want but never bothers to ask us. i hope she is pissed off at him too.
from the way i see it eaafa is proper to the point of being anal (no offence eaafa), and you describe him as infantile! reading the posts it looks to me as if youre the defensive one with his knickers in a twist. pathetic...

[dooley227]

Wow qantaslink has turned to poo since i left 6 months ago. Was such a happy place to work with good people that got along. Now its just a big bitch fight over money that you will all end up with the same money anyway.
Trust me when i say this it is very good place to work compared to where iam now. At least people dont just stand in the ailse and take a dump and your not working with people who wont even speak because they are so stuck up that they cant see the light of day.
So be thankful of what you have now cause the grass is very brown of the other side of the fence.
Id love to know your names but am pretty sure i know who you are,all of you.
Cheers

[TightSlot]

Abuse

Is there something in the water in Australia? I only ask because to the uninitiated, reading this and the QF threads, it might appear that Aussies have dificulty in communicating without resorting to childish insults and bickering? I know this can't be true because I know many Australian people that live normal lives without conflict and squabble.

Let me help.

Abuse of others will not be tolerated here on PPRuNe: You play the ball, not the player. This applies whether you believe you have been provoked, or not. The language used in your posts will always be in the highest Cabin Crew tradition i.e. Thoughtful, considered, relevant, precise and intelligent.

This thread will not be allowed to disintegrate into a bitch-fest: Consider this a warning!

[regionalguy]

Apologies to the moderator and anyone else i have offended, i admit my posts have disintergrated to a level way beyond appropriate and your right, it's not good form, in fact its poor form and i should have known better. i consider myself as being told and it won't happen again.

lfdlfp
i can assure you i'm not obsessed with af and the msn thing. i didn't accuse him of coming up with the twu idea i accused him of pushing the idea, because he was. i thought my point was clear, although apparently it was not. i was objecting to the misinformation being spread (coercion and duress complaint), the encouragment of the twu and the character assasinations of all those who were saying vote yes, the inability to acknowledge when he got it wrong, ect spruiking as a leader without ensuring the information is accurate, credible, reliable and in our best interest, screams incompetent, that was my point, he is no leader.

my mistake, and i recognise it, the survey did come out after the meeting so it couldn't have been discussed there. i should have been clearer in my post about the survey criticising in the base, once it came out. nevertheless, my post was about the meeting and the lack of direction from these leaders. yes my timing was off, but that was hardly the point to my post.

i only referred to the meeting in response to a couple of posts talking about bases and individuals looking after themselves and the slagging mooving gave mouse for having a different opinion. my post was about staying united. i admit they quickly went downhill from there, but that was frustration at the lack of acknowledgement for what was actually going on in our base. not an excuse for the denegration, but it was the reason.

and before you berrate me over that, yes the meeting was eventually acknowledged, but the reason for its orgnisation and isolation and the lack of attendance was'nt. all at the same time as i'm being accused of causing trouble and spreading misinformation for talking about it. yes definately frustrating.

i also agree with you that bi and the faaa should have known what we want or more to the point, what we would not accept - absolutely no argument there.

i did get you mixed up with crew_lj when i accused you of having a go at bi. i was wrong, apologies to you too.

i'm really not defensive, just frustrated at the lack of acknowledgement for what has been going on in mel. if it came across as defensive then i need to choose my words more carefully. mel base are not united in who they want to represent them, or how supportive they'll be.

as for how much agreement in opinions we have from other crew- we can continue to put our point forward, but its just going round in circles, i see no point continuing to spruik it on here, time will tell anyway. you assure me i'm on my own and i assure you, you get plenty of lip service.

[EAAFA]

lfdlfp, "eaafa is proper to the point of being anal". If you think it's anal to be considerate and cautious before posting messages on this thread, then I guess I am.

The fact that the Melbourne meeting took place was never denied (to say it was "eventually acknowledged" is not true). What was discussed at the meeting will not be addressed here because the meeting was confidential and this is a public forum. As one person has previously said, our managers read Pprune. Why would anyone divulge information about a meeting for cabin crew to management by talking about it here?

[regionalguy]

eaafa
you initially responded to my post about the meeting with a suggestion of asking questions face to face without talking about the meeting at all. it wasn't until your next post that you acknowledged the meeting, so it was eventually acknowledged, there is no lie in that. you haven't commented on any other parts of my recent post and only you know why.

the meeting was not for all crew and unity once again, was the point to my post. you have not even attempted to explain how all crew would benefit from a meeting with half a dozen crew in our base only. in fact to call it a meeting is an exaggeration, i've had more crew at bbq's over the years.

discussing the meeting on here was not problem, management knew about it anyway as you well know. while i don't agree posting ideas about the eba or telling each other who would fight or not fight, we are a very small number of eaa crew on here and management would surely recognise that. besides you can't get into trouble by having bbq's or get togethers or anything else outside of work.

[EAAFA]

regionalguy, first of all, thank you for calming down.
Did I deny that the meeting took place? No.
Were all Melbourne flight attendants invited? As far as I know, they were. It was up to them to choose whether to attend or not.
I don't know how to make it clearer that specific questions about what was discussed at the meeting will not be addressed because the meeting was only for cabin crew and this is a public forum. Whether management knew about the meeting is irrelevant. The fact remains they do not need to know what staff do in their free time. Feel free to send me a private message.
Is the Melbourne meeting a sign of disunity among bases? No. If it were possible to have one meeting for all bases, one would have been organised. Are you suggesting we agree to meet at a chosen location equally convenient for Mildura, Sydney and Melbourne crew? I don't see how that would work.
Is the turn-out for the meeting a measure of its success? Perhaps, perhaps not. I was there in order to hear what my colleagues had to say, not to measure the meeting's success.
During the negotiations for the current EBA a similar meeting was organised in Sydney. No one objected to it. No one saw it as a sign of disunity. It was simply a way for people to get together and talk about their working conditions.

[regionalguy]

eaafa
no i obviously don't think a chosen location for all three bases would work, but a run of meetings would have suggested that the aim was for all crew not just our lot.

i didn't realise that syd had a meeting during the eba negotiations, i knew there was one quite a long time ago, but i thought it was before the eba negotiations started and we were all invited to go up. i know nikky went up from mel not sure that anyone else did, i know i didn't.

i don't think i've asked directly what was discussed, i've heard that through the vine and i've never accused you of denying the meeting.

i really don't want to continue to go around and around this issue with you. i've learnt thanks to the moderators words, that i can get pretty tacky when i'm not getting the responses i think are deserved and thats personally surprising and dissapointing. i'm quick to jump on someone else for the same thing i've been guilty of myself and to do that is hypocritical. i'm man enough to say so.

[EAAFA]

regionalguy,
On 19th of February you wrote:
"I've asked you to explain where i have spread mis information and you can't". The misinformation I referred to is your assessment of the meeting and the list of topics discussed at the meeting. You admit to getting that information on the grape vine. Did it ever occur to you that your sources were not correct?
The Sydney meeting I mentioned was during the negotiations for the EBA currently in effect, not the current negotiations. I was based in Melbourne at the time. I was not invited to attend the meeting and it didn't bother me one bit.
"i've never accused you of denying the meeting" No, but saying that I "acknowledged it eventually" implies that I initially denied it.
"i can get pretty tacky when i'm not getting the responses i think are deserved and thats personally surprising and dissapointing" Alternative avenues of obtaining the responses you wanted were always available to you. Do you have any idea how disappointing it is to me when a colleague refuses to respect the confidentiality of a meeting and instead persists in bringing the issues up in a public forum?

[regionalguy]

eaafa
you may be dissapointed in my posts about the meeting but i think it is time for you to accept that there are crew in our base that are dissapointed with the quality of proported leaders. this has been my point all along, yes i've let myself get sidetracked but that doesnt change the reality.

as for the meeting in syd your talking about, if it was for the negotiations for the current eba then your referring to a meeting in roughly 2002/2003 ? you've got a great memory if thats the case. anyway its now 2007 and we are in different times and we want different things.

i don't intend to continue to get caught up in this argument with you. i've made my points you've made yours i've apologised for what needed an apology and recognised my behaviour when it was needed but that doesn't mean i was wrong in having my say. my apology was for my language and the level of uncouth i allowed myself denegrate to.

In summary: if it was in the best interests of all crew, a meeting for each base would have been a better way of showing that and as for the proposed leaders, they don't have the support they think they have and should take the attendance at the meeting as an indication of that.

[lfdlfp]

regionalguy,
good on you for apologizing , but then you have to spoil it all by gradually going back to your old ways. which part of CONFIDENTIAL dont you get???
you admitted to a hell of a lot of mistakes but you still claim to have a right to speak your mind. sorry but if you want to make statements then you have to make sure they are based on fact.
i don't remember when (cant' be bothered looking) but eaafa once said something about "you seem to be basing your opinions on hearsay". you denied it then but now you admit that you heard about it on the "vine". that my dear is hearsay.
while you are coming clean why don't you admit that you are actually based in sydney. i got an interesting pm as proof of that...

[regionalguy]

lfdlfp
that statement about hearsay was in relation to my opinions of af as a leader and his dilution of the whole coercion duress stuff. i said then that my opinions were not based on hearsay. i've never even implied that i was at the meeting, not once, all my posts have been about the talk in the base. the vine reference was about the topics of discussion at confidential thing i'm not allowed to talk about.

as for making statements based on fact, your not fool proof there yourself. you've previously stated that i was planning on leaving once i got my backpay etc.... i'm not going anywhere and you got my identity wrong ! not a fact, but still your statement. not trying to start another fight, just making a point.

i've got no idea why you continue with my base, i'm not in syd, nor have i ever been. thats the reality of it. i don't know how many times i need to say that before it sinks in. no matter what is in your inetesting pm about my identity or base, the fact simply is i'm in mel !

as for admitting to my mistakes (2 of them) yep i did and i'm ok with that

[crew_lj]

regionalguy, I think it is safe to say we all know you have made a fool out of yourself with your contradicting posts and it needs to stop now.

Your posts can also read very unclear messages. I think it is important that if you are from Melbourne, which is such a small base, to talk with your colleagues about your opinions on any new propsed working condtions and stop critisising those that actually care about their future at Eastern. They are only trying to make life better.

You don't seem to have anything constructive to say, maybe that's something you could work on together with your team mates?

I feel really concerned that with your negative attitude, what do you really expect from your colleagues if your just going to make accusations about everyone. Who is going to trust you or want to continue working with you?

I also think if you can't admit to who you are, or where you are from, is there any truth in your posts? Maybe you have a gripe with your colleagues or its a classic case of jealousy and you don't have the guts to say something face to face.

[TightSlot]

Please now move on to the issues not the people.

Many thanks

[m00ving_on]

Bingo

and the penny drops!
it wasn't easy but i now know who you are. regionalGUY indeed. i always thought you had balls and now i know.
you were a backstabbing dobber at kendall and nothing has changed. well don't look now regionalGUY but your ballbag has fallen out of your sizable knickers and everyone is LAUGHING AT YOU

[TightSlot]

and the penny drops!

Clearly it hasn't, so a three day ban may help concentrate your mind
Next please?

[EAAFA]

M00ving on,
What in the world are you talking about?

[lfdlfp]

what the???

m00 gets banned while reg calls his workmates stupid, imbecilic, insane, infantile, etc. that makes sense
reg, you accused eaaafa of going around in circles. you did it with him and are now trying to do it with me.
i'm over this