Eastern Australia Airlines
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Hello All,
I have been reading these forums for some time but like many others have only now gotten the urge to post an opinion. Can I say that I am trully concerned that some people are using this site as a way of berating, belittleing and basically being rude to their collegues.
I must say that I think AF is a great guy who like us all is concerned about his future work conditions, all he has done is made some enquiries into some of the actions the union and management have made and shared the response he recieved with collegues. With the information that was shared each individual can do with it what they want.
So for those of you posting your venomous opinions, stop hiding behind this site and either say it directly to him or stop typing!!
Now for the problem at hand, we as Eastern flight attendants must stop our inner bickering and start to address our situation. We need to be reasonable and unified in what we want from the company and of course be prepared that we will need to give up some (not all) of our current working conditions. Lets start to get an idea of exactly what it is we want, if we can get some personal opinions down then its a start.
My understanding is that the company basically does not want to budge from the proposal that was offered, they must accept however that it was voted down by a large majority and there are things they will need to change in order for their business to continue to run. Industrial action is a real option for us but we must stick together - I would be very interested in us now posting ideas on exactly what reasonable conditions we are willing to forego or wish to retain.
Is it fair to say that we do not want DTA?
Is it a MUST that we retain our 7 hour day 2 rule?
How important is the base salary?
Would love to gauge some peoples answers to questions like these!!
I have been reading these forums for some time but like many others have only now gotten the urge to post an opinion. Can I say that I am trully concerned that some people are using this site as a way of berating, belittleing and basically being rude to their collegues.
I must say that I think AF is a great guy who like us all is concerned about his future work conditions, all he has done is made some enquiries into some of the actions the union and management have made and shared the response he recieved with collegues. With the information that was shared each individual can do with it what they want.
So for those of you posting your venomous opinions, stop hiding behind this site and either say it directly to him or stop typing!!
Now for the problem at hand, we as Eastern flight attendants must stop our inner bickering and start to address our situation. We need to be reasonable and unified in what we want from the company and of course be prepared that we will need to give up some (not all) of our current working conditions. Lets start to get an idea of exactly what it is we want, if we can get some personal opinions down then its a start.
My understanding is that the company basically does not want to budge from the proposal that was offered, they must accept however that it was voted down by a large majority and there are things they will need to change in order for their business to continue to run. Industrial action is a real option for us but we must stick together - I would be very interested in us now posting ideas on exactly what reasonable conditions we are willing to forego or wish to retain.
Is it fair to say that we do not want DTA?
Is it a MUST that we retain our 7 hour day 2 rule?
How important is the base salary?
Would love to gauge some peoples answers to questions like these!!
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Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year everyone!
Wishing everyone a safe and happy festive holiday.
Remember that Jesus is the reason for this season.
Finally, I'd just like to say we are strong and we must stay together. Please don't fight with other flight attendants, WE all work hard and the company relies on all of us for the business to run. Without US the company cannot operate passenger services. We are all here for each other.
If you look deep enough, all this negativity developed when our three 'friends' who held meetings over the last few weeks photocopied and posted us Sunstates EBA, which apparently took months of negotiations to decide… what colour paper to print them on.
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Think about it
"My understanding is that the company basically does not want to budge from the proposal that was offered, they must accept however that it was voted down by a large majority and there are things they will need to change in order for their business to continue to run. Industrial action is a real option for us"
Are you serious Dasher ? the company don't have to re negotiate again, let alone give us anything. all management in the qf group will be absolutely sh
ing themselves at the moment, wondering what the new bosses are going to do with their jobs or worse, what they'll be expected to do to keep it. all i know is corporate take overs are not usually done so that they can spend more money, i'm pretty sure the whole idea is cut back everywhere, whether they can really afford to or not, and just make more money and lots of it. thats if they don't "let go" of areas that aren't making enough money........
and as for industrial action, you are completely narrow minded if you think that all (or even the majority) of eaa crew are going to be prepared to take industrial action. We have had a lot of new crew over the last couple of years and we cannot expect them to feel as passionately about the working conditions. lets face it, their just happy to be in a job they love. Then there is the not so new crew, who understand that the job we are all in, is not the same and is forever changing and also realise that this will happen with or without us.
i agree with you we should stick togther and become united, however it just not realistic amongst our crew. listen in the crew room already, sure you've got the outspoken no voters, but what about the others that sit quitely or change the subject. whilst we might be the most vocal, we are by no means the majority. it just insanity to think that because 80 voted no that they will all take action.
by the way give casa a call and see how long it takes to have someone certified to work on the dash, i understand its about 4 days, the rest of our training is company rstuff not casa. So how much of the business is not going to run without us anyway. they trained managers up when long haul were taking action a couple of years ago, do you really think we at eaa are going to scare the group into doing nothing.
Whatever it is we do from here, we need to think it through carefully including the potential risks to us as a group. Its time to get our heads out of our back sides and look at this situation with an open and realistic mind.
PS Dasher is it only when people on this site talk about AF that you get upset or is that rule for everyone this forum talks about ?..... he wasn't just "making enquiries" about the actions of the union and management, this forum tells us that he was lodging complaints about them thanks to a quote from the MSN chat room where he left his name and his number. if even he, "the almighty mis-informed no voter" can't be honest about his actions, how do you really expect people to respect him enough to take his advice and so called leadership ? He was wrong about the trumped up coercion so now he was just making enquiries... looks nothing like the behavoiur of a leader to me, more like the gutless moves of short man syndrome ie: always ready to talk it up but with nothing there to back it up. by the way is he still a union rep ? surely they've got to have something to say about his failed attempt at a complaint.
Are you serious Dasher ? the company don't have to re negotiate again, let alone give us anything. all management in the qf group will be absolutely sh
ing themselves at the moment, wondering what the new bosses are going to do with their jobs or worse, what they'll be expected to do to keep it. all i know is corporate take overs are not usually done so that they can spend more money, i'm pretty sure the whole idea is cut back everywhere, whether they can really afford to or not, and just make more money and lots of it. thats if they don't "let go" of areas that aren't making enough money........and as for industrial action, you are completely narrow minded if you think that all (or even the majority) of eaa crew are going to be prepared to take industrial action. We have had a lot of new crew over the last couple of years and we cannot expect them to feel as passionately about the working conditions. lets face it, their just happy to be in a job they love. Then there is the not so new crew, who understand that the job we are all in, is not the same and is forever changing and also realise that this will happen with or without us.
i agree with you we should stick togther and become united, however it just not realistic amongst our crew. listen in the crew room already, sure you've got the outspoken no voters, but what about the others that sit quitely or change the subject. whilst we might be the most vocal, we are by no means the majority. it just insanity to think that because 80 voted no that they will all take action.
by the way give casa a call and see how long it takes to have someone certified to work on the dash, i understand its about 4 days, the rest of our training is company rstuff not casa. So how much of the business is not going to run without us anyway. they trained managers up when long haul were taking action a couple of years ago, do you really think we at eaa are going to scare the group into doing nothing.
Whatever it is we do from here, we need to think it through carefully including the potential risks to us as a group. Its time to get our heads out of our back sides and look at this situation with an open and realistic mind.
PS Dasher is it only when people on this site talk about AF that you get upset or is that rule for everyone this forum talks about ?..... he wasn't just "making enquiries" about the actions of the union and management, this forum tells us that he was lodging complaints about them thanks to a quote from the MSN chat room where he left his name and his number. if even he, "the almighty mis-informed no voter" can't be honest about his actions, how do you really expect people to respect him enough to take his advice and so called leadership ? He was wrong about the trumped up coercion so now he was just making enquiries... looks nothing like the behavoiur of a leader to me, more like the gutless moves of short man syndrome ie: always ready to talk it up but with nothing there to back it up. by the way is he still a union rep ? surely they've got to have something to say about his failed attempt at a complaint.
Last edited by regionalguy; 16th Dec 2006 at 22:00. Reason: grammer
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Well said Dasher8Dash.
We must remain unified and positive. Sure, the timing is bad given the situation at Qantas, but that doesn't mean we should just roll over and play dead.
I'll be at the meeting and hope everyone else who isn't working at the time will come too.
Also, I'm sure I speak for many in saying it's time to end the AF bashing. It's a classic case of diverting attention from the issue at hand.
We must remain unified and positive. Sure, the timing is bad given the situation at Qantas, but that doesn't mean we should just roll over and play dead.
I'll be at the meeting and hope everyone else who isn't working at the time will come too.
Also, I'm sure I speak for many in saying it's time to end the AF bashing. It's a classic case of diverting attention from the issue at hand.
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The EBA
Hi everyone,
Now that the EBA has been voted down, has anyone heard anything new about what is happening now? Once again, I feel totally out of the loop and would love to hear anything new.
I know I'm gullible but I'm really hoping that something good will come from this. I can truthfully say that the whole period where the EBA was an issue was one of the most distressing times of my life. For the first time ever, I really had some awful doubts about a job I really enjoy.
Now that the EBA has been voted down, has anyone heard anything new about what is happening now? Once again, I feel totally out of the loop and would love to hear anything new.
I know I'm gullible but I'm really hoping that something good will come from this. I can truthfully say that the whole period where the EBA was an issue was one of the most distressing times of my life. For the first time ever, I really had some awful doubts about a job I really enjoy.
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regional guy,
Just to set things straight, AF did a lot of research before casting a no vote and he doesn't deny what he did in regard to the complaint. He is perfectly upfront about it. I've worked with him a number of times in the last two months so I've spoken to him in detail about the issues.
It seems to me as if you are too ready to question people's integrity based on hearsay. If you don't know them personally, please give them the benefit of the doubt.
As for your statement about new people just being glad to be flight attendants and not being passionate about their working conditions, you must be joking. I don't know one new person who is indifferent to what kind of EBA they will be working under. I don't know about Sydney, but in Melbourne the new people are just as passionate about this as anyone else.
Just to set things straight, AF did a lot of research before casting a no vote and he doesn't deny what he did in regard to the complaint. He is perfectly upfront about it. I've worked with him a number of times in the last two months so I've spoken to him in detail about the issues.
It seems to me as if you are too ready to question people's integrity based on hearsay. If you don't know them personally, please give them the benefit of the doubt.
As for your statement about new people just being glad to be flight attendants and not being passionate about their working conditions, you must be joking. I don't know one new person who is indifferent to what kind of EBA they will be working under. I don't know about Sydney, but in Melbourne the new people are just as passionate about this as anyone else.
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EAA FA
I didn't mean to infer that the new crew didn't care at all about their EBA but I don't think you can expect them to care as much about it as we more longer serving crew do. I'm sure if you ask them they will agree with you, however not wanting to start up an argument when you are relatively new to a job and really saying what you believe are two very different things.
As for AF, please don't assume that I don't know him or that I have'nt listened to what he has had to say. He was extremely vocal about his intentions and what he believed we should all be doing when the voting was happening. My point earlier was that he had nothing, absolutely nothing to back up what he was saying, and in fact was trying to lead us down a very tenuous path, whether he even realised that or not may be a defence for his action....... ignorance powered by ego is my view.
He suggested industrial action, he spoke of lodging complaints of coercion and duress, he wanted us to move to another union who I don't believe has any clout in getting the company to deal with them, nor have they had any expereice in looking after crew. Personally I don't actually mind him, but what I do have big issues with is his god like behaviour during the vote. That and then when I aksed some questions in my earlier posts, he came in with a different log in name (Dasher) and tried to water down what he had said he was doing, because he got it wrong. Not my idea of a leader, a leader needs to be able to take responsibility for their actions and advice, not to mention some experience and knowledge about what he is spruiking.
Do I wish the FAAA had called for action ? maybe but if we were going to do that I would want to know that we had the backing of all crew, which I and plenty of other crew, don't believe we have. We are in dodgy times now with the take over, I've said it before and I want to keep my job. Apart from all the whinging that goes on, we all know what is expected of us and what we get for it and its better than what's around "out there". Do any of us honestly believe that the take over group are going to care what 130 regional crew think or do for that matter ? Give me a break, we are all replaceable within days if that's what they want.
mr - boo
I agree it was a bloody awful time to be at work. I don't know what's happening, I asked around the other day and was told "we'll see" when everyone's back from leave (I guess that means NG ). Just for the record there are a lot of us that love our job too buddy, your not alone.
I didn't mean to infer that the new crew didn't care at all about their EBA but I don't think you can expect them to care as much about it as we more longer serving crew do. I'm sure if you ask them they will agree with you, however not wanting to start up an argument when you are relatively new to a job and really saying what you believe are two very different things.
As for AF, please don't assume that I don't know him or that I have'nt listened to what he has had to say. He was extremely vocal about his intentions and what he believed we should all be doing when the voting was happening. My point earlier was that he had nothing, absolutely nothing to back up what he was saying, and in fact was trying to lead us down a very tenuous path, whether he even realised that or not may be a defence for his action....... ignorance powered by ego is my view.
He suggested industrial action, he spoke of lodging complaints of coercion and duress, he wanted us to move to another union who I don't believe has any clout in getting the company to deal with them, nor have they had any expereice in looking after crew. Personally I don't actually mind him, but what I do have big issues with is his god like behaviour during the vote. That and then when I aksed some questions in my earlier posts, he came in with a different log in name (Dasher) and tried to water down what he had said he was doing, because he got it wrong. Not my idea of a leader, a leader needs to be able to take responsibility for their actions and advice, not to mention some experience and knowledge about what he is spruiking.
Do I wish the FAAA had called for action ? maybe but if we were going to do that I would want to know that we had the backing of all crew, which I and plenty of other crew, don't believe we have. We are in dodgy times now with the take over, I've said it before and I want to keep my job. Apart from all the whinging that goes on, we all know what is expected of us and what we get for it and its better than what's around "out there". Do any of us honestly believe that the take over group are going to care what 130 regional crew think or do for that matter ? Give me a break, we are all replaceable within days if that's what they want.
mr - boo
I agree it was a bloody awful time to be at work. I don't know what's happening, I asked around the other day and was told "we'll see" when everyone's back from leave (I guess that means NG ). Just for the record there are a lot of us that love our job too buddy, your not alone.
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EBA Update
I've heard that company will be meeting with the FAAA again on the eba (through someone who spoke to NG herself). I rang the FAAA and asked when the meetings were going to be on and was told that a survey of all members would be coming out next week. 
So keep a look out guy and gals for our survey. should be an interesting read.
PS. they said survey to members only (gotta love that...... no membership no say)
So keep a look out guy and gals for our survey. should be an interesting read.
PS. they said survey to members only (gotta love that...... no membership no say)
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regional guy, I don't disagree with all of your statements, however the more you say about AF the more convinced I am that your opinions are based on hearsay. Also, I know who Dasher is and it isn't AF.
I'm over arguing about another person. If he wants to he can defend himself.
Can anyone confirm the rumour that an announcement about progression will be made this week?
I'm over arguing about another person. If he wants to he can defend himself.
Can anyone confirm the rumour that an announcement about progression will be made this week?
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Survey says....
I just received the letter from the FAAA in regards to what issues are most important to us. I have to admit that I don't totally understand all 5 of them so I will be endeavouring to find out what they all are. 
Was just wondering what everyone thinks, in order, are our most important issues.
Am also curious who would be willing to take industrial action.
Was just wondering what everyone thinks, in order, are our most important issues.
Am also curious who would be willing to take industrial action.
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Survey.... What to say What not to say
mr boo
got my letter yesterday too. just a thought, i don't think its all that smart putting our thoughts about the issues and industrial action on this site, i know JG reads this forum and i'm betting he's not the only one.
ask the rep or give the faaa a call if you don't understand what they're asking.
EAA
couldn't agree with you more and no haven't heard about progression other than the usual rumour mill.
got my letter yesterday too. just a thought, i don't think its all that smart putting our thoughts about the issues and industrial action on this site, i know JG reads this forum and i'm betting he's not the only one.
ask the rep or give the faaa a call if you don't understand what they're asking.
EAA
couldn't agree with you more and no haven't heard about progression other than the usual rumour mill.
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EBA the drama continues!
Hi all,
Like us all I am very concerned about the developments, especially this letter we have recieved. I think we all need to consider VERY seriously which path we will take. We are in a very volitle industry, and things can change in a flash (look what happened to Southern!). We must also remeber that each base will have different attitudes to what they think is most important, for those who don't do O/nights the 7 hour rule will not matter.
Someone in the crew room down south told me that we had to be united, I agree, but sometimes, each base will be looking out for themselves. I will admit that my vote was one of the minority, but like some others, I am concerned about our future.
I am Dash Trash and proud of it!
Peace
Mouse
Like us all I am very concerned about the developments, especially this letter we have recieved. I think we all need to consider VERY seriously which path we will take. We are in a very volitle industry, and things can change in a flash (look what happened to Southern!). We must also remeber that each base will have different attitudes to what they think is most important, for those who don't do O/nights the 7 hour rule will not matter.
Someone in the crew room down south told me that we had to be united, I agree, but sometimes, each base will be looking out for themselves. I will admit that my vote was one of the minority, but like some others, I am concerned about our future.
I am Dash Trash and proud of it!
Peace
Mouse
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Mouse78,
I'm a bit like you... I also think about the implications of us taking industrial action! I've heard JG say that it'd take about 2-3 days to train a FA in the basic functions of cabin crew (ie EP's, Av Med and Regs -that's it!). No one is irreplaceable. And I'm pretty sure that our Company would do what it needs to in order to ensure the airline continues to run.
It's interesting re. comments about 'being united'. I've also had the same thing said to me in SYD... the trouble is that the majority of us are selfish at heart and really, wouldn't act in the collective interest; it would purely be about self interest.
Mmmmmmm interesting times really! God I wish I had that backpay. I got my creditcard bill in yesterday and I'm freaking out! Here's hoping to $1000 worth of Woring RDO / Drafting money over February!
I'm a bit like you... I also think about the implications of us taking industrial action! I've heard JG say that it'd take about 2-3 days to train a FA in the basic functions of cabin crew (ie EP's, Av Med and Regs -that's it!). No one is irreplaceable. And I'm pretty sure that our Company would do what it needs to in order to ensure the airline continues to run.
It's interesting re. comments about 'being united'. I've also had the same thing said to me in SYD... the trouble is that the majority of us are selfish at heart and really, wouldn't act in the collective interest; it would purely be about self interest.
Mmmmmmm interesting times really! God I wish I had that backpay. I got my creditcard bill in yesterday and I'm freaking out! Here's hoping to $1000 worth of Woring RDO / Drafting money over February!
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mouse78, the only reason you don't do overnights out of MQL is because you are protected by the 13 hour aggregate/ 7 hours on the second day after min rest. Give that up and you'll be doing overnights with 4 sectors first day min rest 4 sectors second day. THINK OF THE BIG PICTURE BEFORE MAKING UP YOUR MIND
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Chicken Little the skies falling down!
Mooving_on, I can tell you that in the last couple of weeks i have had two seperate occasions where I have done 4 sectors - min rest - four sectors! It happens already! As part of a team that does the most duty/flight hours in the company, I sometimes find it hard to listen to my fellow FA's complaining about their hours! I believe that we need to see a large range of sunstate rosters before the scare mongering starts! Remeber that 1/3 of FA's voted yes!
Mouse
PS The day that I see a Sunnies FA get on here and let us know "how bad it is", then I may listen to the Chicken Littles!
Mouse
PS The day that I see a Sunnies FA get on here and let us know "how bad it is", then I may listen to the Chicken Littles!
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mouse, it's up to you to do the research. seek out sunnies f/as and ask them what it's like. don't wait for them to come to you.
it's funny you going on about chicken little when your posts indicate that you voted YES out of fear of what might happen if you voted NO...
the real chicken little is YOU
it's funny you going on about chicken little when your posts indicate that you voted YES out of fear of what might happen if you voted NO...
the real chicken little is YOU
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Country I may live, but city I grew up! And let me remind you that there are some pretty cluey FA's up here! I was not swayed by the atitude of others, I read the EBA on offer, and felt that there are some things that will have to change to ensure that Eastern can remain profitable, and that we have a job! I mentioned all this in a previous post regarding the takeover bid, uncertainty in the industry. If I may add, overall we are paid pretty well for what we do, and the hours we work, and that would not have changed. Try picking grapes or oranges for a day! My other half works 60 + hours a week for the same pay as I get, is away from home, and lives in a caravan! I have my dream job and work 30 hours a week for the same pay.
Love it, or loath it, the new EBA will come in, and things will have to change.
Mouse
PS I'm sorry for my rant the other night, but hey, sometimes we have to vent!
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Staying United !!!!
Gee what a great job we're doing of staying united. just a quick read of the most recent posts and the slanging match is off and running (again). Great job guys !
CrashAxe you are right on the money when you say bases will look after themselves, am i right in assuming you were referring to the "strictly confidential" meeting mel base had on Jan 22 ? For sake, does anyone think that's being united ??????
Breaking away and having little get togethers, to discuss "our future". Is that mel bases future, or eaa crew future ? Maybe one of the three who organised this little shindig (AP, DV or AF) could fill the rest of us in. Just in case anyone else was wondering the turn up to the meeting has been reported as "about 6", "maybe 10", "only a few" etc, so we can't even call mel base united.
If we're going to get anywhere it has be to together, all bases, all crew, together. Stay united......... for the love of god, lets start to actully practice what we preach.
Does anyone else agree with me or am i just wishful thinking here ???
Yes i'm ranting again, apologies up front, but this is just stupidity at its finest.
CrashAxe you are right on the money when you say bases will look after themselves, am i right in assuming you were referring to the "strictly confidential" meeting mel base had on Jan 22 ? For
sake, does anyone think that's being united ??????Breaking away and having little get togethers, to discuss "our future". Is that mel bases future, or eaa crew future ? Maybe one of the three who organised this little shindig (AP, DV or AF) could fill the rest of us in. Just in case anyone else was wondering the turn up to the meeting has been reported as "about 6", "maybe 10", "only a few" etc, so we can't even call mel base united.
If we're going to get anywhere it has be to together, all bases, all crew, together. Stay united......... for the love of god, lets start to actully practice what we preach.
Does anyone else agree with me or am i just wishful thinking here ???
Yes i'm ranting again, apologies up front, but this is just stupidity at its finest.
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regionalguy,
Why don't you ask questions directly person to person instead of spreading misinformation on the internet?
mouse78,
How much are you willing to give up to keep your job? I don't see how anyone could possibly think the small pay rise being offered is worth everything we are expected to give up.
Also, the working conditions your boyfriend accepts are completely irrelevant to our situation.
Why don't you ask questions directly person to person instead of spreading misinformation on the internet?
mouse78,
How much are you willing to give up to keep your job? I don't see how anyone could possibly think the small pay rise being offered is worth everything we are expected to give up.
Also, the working conditions your boyfriend accepts are completely irrelevant to our situation.