So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

I said it a few weeks ago and I'll say it again, Australian governments are going to have a really hard time selling the fact that increasing COVID cases and some deaths are an acceptable outcome in a post-vaccination Australia.

Will Mark McGowan, who's sitting on an 80% plus approval rating and looks likely to destroy the WA Liberals in a few weeks, be willing to stay open if there are any COVID cases in the eastern states, and any risk at all that Mr or Mrs Jones in their nursing homes may be one of the few people whom the Pfizer vaccine doesn't protect?

Reducing the number of deaths in the US from 4000 to 400 a day would be seen as a triumph. 4 deaths a day in Australia would be unacceptable. Not sure how Scotty from Marketing is going to sell that one, and his comments yesterday that vaccinations "should" see an end to lockdowns and border closures, frankly, doesn't fill me with confidence.

Well that's what happens when you create fear, panic and hysteria for your own political means. It's been a real education reading what that sort of rot does to seemingly intelligent people (like Sunfish). You kind of expect it from the uneducated 50% or so.

its all relative though.. if you are happy to live in your own little neighbourhood bubble and work locally then yeah what’s been going on is fine - but the fact that we haven’t had a significant breakout and/or a covid related death in Australian in 4-5 months SHOULD give us the confidence to be able to travel and work freely across our country without fear of being locked up or locked out of your home state!

Because tradies are busy does that mean we shouldn’t give a flying $&@! that there are people who haven’t been able to see their elderly and close to dead relatives in Perth for more than a 2 week window in over 12 months? Or that there have been literally hundreds of thousands who have been stood down and relying on government handouts to feed their families?

we’re lucky, we are isolated, and other than one example in vic last year the combination of quarantine and track/trace/isolate has kept Australia for the most part covid free.. so why the fear?

For what it’s worth. it’s probably just as hard to get one of these in the U.K. at present despite the numbers of cases.

well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial. Your assertion that Australia has somehow approved the vaccine in a differant way is incorrect. Granted they’ve had sight of an expanded phase 3 in the real world scenario and at scale, but it’s still an EUA and NOT full approval of a vaccine.

Here is a classic example of why the various Health Officers around the country have been given way too much authority. They simply don’t understand the social and economic consequences of their decisions, and merely see things only from a health perspective. The Premiers need to weigh up the decisions accordingly.

Dr Jeannette Young in QLD, is quoted in today’s SMH:

“I really don’t like having to recommend to the Premier that we close borders,” she said. “It’s not helpful, it’s very unnatural as well. But I think it was important that you minimise the risk of new cases. I never realised how many people travel every single day [between NSW and Queensland].”

Here is an interesting aside.. as looking at it from a view point as my new job as a train diver.

There is a web site called ..the man in seat 61.. it’s very interesting about rail travel.

It seems many overnight services in Europe, that were stopped a few years ago, are being started again. People are sick of the airport/ low cost /COVID experience.

I’m not suggesting it will happen here .. just throwing it in for a bit of interest.

Phase 3 trials are more about studying the efficacy of the vaccine rather than safety.

Phase 1 and 2 are more about safety, and if a vaccine is found to be unsafe it generally appears in phase 2.

Any serious side effect like anaphylaxis will show up within the first 15 minutes, that’s why they get you to stay at the injection site for a while after receiving the shot. Still that’s only at a rate of 4.5 per million for Covid vax.

This article explains why vaccines are safe and have been approved whilst some continuing studies are ongoing.

You can trust the world’s overwhelming body of scientific and medical expertise, and not listen to those brain dead morons who protested around the country yesterday like Pete Evans.

mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

I reckon the narrative will change as soon as he is safely settled in his second term. He is going to be destroyed economically if he keeps up the current act. WA is reliant on immigrant labour due to lack of population, and they don't have any right now. Mining, Farming, Hospitality plus major public works. He will see runaway wage inflation, public works blowouts, cancelled projects, businesses shutting down if he keeps going the way it is. There are plenty of news articles now about businesses unable to find labour in WA so he won't want that to keep going. If he does nothing eventually he'll get tapped on the shoulder by the minerals council telling him to open the border or else. It also gives a free hit to the Libs who can run the mantra of Labor can't manage the economy.

I read your comment with interest and respect it, but his ego, like most politicians will put personal popularity above all else. He will hold out for as long as possible. Australians are piss weak on this front. It will take pushing the economy over there to pert near economic collapse before anything changes. And of course, you have to deal with the 50% of the population you've just pushed close to mental collapse with fear, anxiety and chaos. How do you now go to them and say, yeah, all good now? Just my opinion of course and not worth a pince of ****!

Seriously, what are you talking about? WA is implementing the vaccine program from next week just like every other state in the nation.

If you’re trying to make a comparison to the use of a lockdown for a small number of cases (which every state has done btw) that argument has been done and dusted and it’s time to move on.

It is the introduction of this vaccine that will change the environment that caused those lockdowns to be implemented.

Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.

Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. It’s not a hard concept to understand.

In response I’ll ask this: If you think the conspiracy is states will just continue to lock borders forever why are they bothering spending money and resources vaccinating people? Why not just keep borders closed forever and use the money elsewhere?

Funny thing is, is that in response to the latest Melbourne outbreak/lockdown WA wasn’t even the strictest other state in response, SA implemented a hard border 48hrs prior to WA. And you’ll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

Dude, read the health advice now, look at the damage that has been done in other health areas. Your 'not hard concept' may be understood by intelligent people but it doesn't seem to be understood by an epidemiologist that's looking at one problem in isolation.

Who said ANYTHING about a conspiracy?? Mate, I'm far removed from a Pete Evans. I'm looking at the broader picture. And I'm looking at behaviours.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....449bed86f7.jpg

Hahahahahaha ah no. They are still as stupid as ever. But at least the rest of Australia isn’t as <can’t write the rest here as it’s not socially acceptable>.

Well most of the crowd were fervently supporting a player who’s made some stupid statements on vaccines recently so not really surprised they had that reaction.

In better news a study out from the UK showing 95% of over 70s have had a vaccine dose, the number who have declined one despite being offered? Only 1%.

Boris in the UK is now saying All over 50s will be offered at least one vaccination by 15 April. Also All adults will be offered one vaccination by July, Meaning all adults will have been offered Two vaccines by Sept/Oct. (About 66 million population)

From what I hear Australia will have vaccinated all adults by Sept/Oct.

So does that mean by say October 21 the Australian borders will then open to international travelers from the UK. Allowing people to see there Sons, Daughters, Grandchildren and Parents again. Or is the current situation going to go on forever.

It will depend on a few things.
One thing will be green-zone routes. This will be end-to-end flights with no transit passengers joining along the way. For example, SQ will not be able to use its SIN hub to have pax join and leave the flights to and from other destinations. Obviously this would favour someone like QF who can operate LHR-PER non-stop. BA or VS could also do the same. Airlines like EK or SQ that rely on exploiting their well-located hubs to fill their planes will continue to be in a world of pain.
It is also likely that pre-flight testing will also remain so before boarding airlines will require proof of vaccination along with a negative test within the previous 72 hours. Hopefully 14 days quarantine won't be required on arrival or the whole process is doomed.

Realistically, Australia has been very cautious throughout the whole pandemic and I wouldn't be planning on int'l flights before 1 January 2022.

I really don’t get the need for testing if you’ve had the vaccine. Not saying you’re wrong, but if you’re fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

The vaccine won’t entirely stop you getting covid from my understanding, it’ll just reduce the effects of getting it. I guess while it’s still so prevalent worldwide, the chance is still there that you can be carrying it.

Maybe when numbers have come right down worldwide, the risk of an inbound traveller carrying it will be greatly reduced, then the need for pre-flight testing will become unnecessary.

1/3 Cairns is on Jobkeeper. This wonderful place is on the verge of collapse.

Annastacia nowhere to be seen.

Because you aren't necessarily fully protected especially, as you say, against mutations

TBH Cairns has been in decline for years, while its sad, it needs to reinvent itself as a city to live in, not just for holidays. Even with domestic travel, it wont make up for the lack of international tourists. The spending habits are vastly different.

And here you have ladies and gentlemen the reason why foreign traveller quarantines will continue seemingly indefinitely and exactly what I predicted would happen. The purpose of the vaccine is to protect against severe disease, not necessarily mild infection. If this policy comes in, the world will never reopen. We are only finding the Kent variant for example, because the UK has half of the world's genomic testing. Seemingly a Nigerian variant was found around Christmas, but you never hear about it because no one is looking for it.

Hypothetical situation - I have a booking from LHR-DXB-BNE from 6 Dec 2021 (FWIW I have) - I have had two doses of the vaccine, as have all Australians who want one. I then present with asymptomatic Covid-19 which the vaccine is protecting me from getting mildly ill. I have to shell out £150 for a test too, which I can afford, but clearly don't want to pay out. Who am I endangering?

Viruses mutate - that is what they do. All vaccines, albeit some less so, protect against disease, but all protect against severe disease. I don't mind getting a little bit sick as long as I don't end up in hospital clearly.

Hypothetical situation -

Get yourself a fundamental understanding of how vaccines work.

:ok:

Hypothetically if someone was desperate to come for the Ashes they might try their luck convincing whoever they can that it’s in everyone’s best interest that the rules change to accommodate them.

We don’t let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.

Just preventable ones. Smoking and lung cancer for example...

I’ve read this back three times and I haven’t a clue what you’re trying to convince.

I have a fair understanding - they intend to prevent severe disease and in this case significantly reduce transmission. Am I wrong?

So what metric are you waiting for to allow international travel again?
Personally, I have no need or desire to travel to Oz anymore, but I don’t quite get what your strategy is.

Zero COVID cases? If so you’re never gonna see international travel again.
The vaccine will prevent severe disease, but won’t stop transmission.
If full vaccination is not good enough for you then what is?

There will be future mutations, nothing can be done about that and this virus is going nowhere. Either we learn to live with it, or life even close to what we knew, is over.

Personally, I’d like to learn to live with it. Life as it is right now is not for me

That’s it BA! Each state premier (except Gladys) have installed fear about this virus for their political gain. Now the vaccine is rolling out there must be a common ground for acceptable level of the virus, as there is for others. The problem is the baby boomers and bogans that have all this fear inside them will let those same politicians know. It will be interesting to see what rhetoric McGoose pushes after his March election. Will he stick hard to zero cases then we’ll WA f$&ked royally as they have no work force. I think WA is f$&kef royally anyway as the baby boomers and bogans there will not change their thought process about the virus. Queen P up on the North well her actions are being seen now and her carnage is becoming very apparent everyday, I wonder if she pushed her CMO to make those comments about not realizing that so many ppl travel etc, surely a Dr couldn’t be that stupid!

Take a trip up to FNQ and have a look at the effects of the lack of tourism.

CNS is deserted. It’s quite sad to see and it’ll take a very long time to restore the confidence of travellers from the Southern states. They’re the ones who spend the big $$$ domestically.

Yep borders need to come down and concentrate on the national approach.

2021 should be a booming year for domestic tourism. VIC/NSW snow fields for winter, NT/QLD for the dry, remote Australia, WA so much to offer, Tassie.

Aus has it all, no not ideal as people like me love overseas travel but for now Aus will do, open the borders, keep them open and promote AUSTRALIAN DOMESTIC TOURISM.

There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

I certainly agree, however this year there ain’t many other options. Stay home or travel domestically (yes even in your own backyard). School holidays will be interesting! Now if only everything apart from the airfares were more affordable! People will still travel.

Very hard on the asian countries that rely so much on australian tourists but for now to keep us safe & as covid free as possible & to support our domestic tourism the dollars we have in our pockets need to be spent in our own backyard.
There are so many great destinations in every state that can be enjoyed & right now the places & people that rely on tourism need & want our business.

100% ...Lots of people are having long weekends here and there, but waiting for Asia to reopen for big holidays