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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Ladloy 19th Feb 2021 18:38

I can't wait to go back flying with all you tinfoil hat wearers. Should make for a fun ride.

601 19th Feb 2021 23:50


Problem is Australia has gone all in with the govt/media scare tactics, too hard to reverse course now without looking stupid.
So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

DirectAnywhere 20th Feb 2021 01:05

I said it a few weeks ago and I'll say it again, Australian governments are going to have a really hard time selling the fact that increasing COVID cases and some deaths are an acceptable outcome in a post-vaccination Australia.

Will Mark McGowan, who's sitting on an 80% plus approval rating and looks likely to destroy the WA Liberals in a few weeks, be willing to stay open if there are any COVID cases in the eastern states, and any risk at all that Mr or Mrs Jones in their nursing homes may be one of the few people whom the Pfizer vaccine doesn't protect?

Reducing the number of deaths in the US from 4000 to 400 a day would be seen as a triumph. 4 deaths a day in Australia would be unacceptable. Not sure how Scotty from Marketing is going to sell that one, and his comments yesterday that vaccinations "should" see an end to lockdowns and border closures, frankly, doesn't fill me with confidence.

McLimit 20th Feb 2021 01:37

Well that's what happens when you create fear, panic and hysteria for your own political means. It's been a real education reading what that sort of rot does to seemingly intelligent people (like Sunfish). You kind of expect it from the uneducated 50% or so.

WhisprSYD 20th Feb 2021 05:28


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10993842)
So, as a nation, we are stupid for looking at what was happening overseas and adopting a course of action that has allowed us to have a reasonable existence in our daily lives.

The only industries that are feeling the effects are the industries that rely heavily on tourism, including aviation.
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

its all relative though.. if you are happy to live in your own little neighbourhood bubble and work locally then yeah whatís been going on is fine - but the fact that we havenít had a significant breakout and/or a covid related death in Australian in 4-5 months SHOULD give us the confidence to be able to travel and work freely across our country without fear of being locked up or locked out of your home state!

Because tradies are busy does that mean we shouldnít give a flying $&@! that there are people who havenít been able to see their elderly and close to dead relatives in Perth for more than a 2 week window in over 12 months? Or that there have been literally hundreds of thousands who have been stood down and relying on government handouts to feed their families?

weíre lucky, we are isolated, and other than one example in vic last year the combination of quarantine and track/trace/isolate has kept Australia for the most part covid free.. so why the fear?

Dannyboy39 20th Feb 2021 06:41


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10993842)
In Oz, try getting a chippie, tiler or plumber or try to book your yacht in to get it bottom cleaned.
Some industries are going gangbusters.

I would rather be in this state of relative normality than looking at another 3 months of being locked up indoors.

For what itís worth. itís probably just as hard to get one of these in the U.K. at present despite the numbers of cases.

3Greens 20th Feb 2021 08:55


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10991558)
Approved through the normal process per other vaccines.

Not under emergency use provisions or under a temporary authorisation.

Due in large part to having the luxury of time to do so, due to the low rates of infection.

well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial. Your assertion that Australia has somehow approved the vaccine in a differant way is incorrect. Granted theyíve had sight of an expanded phase 3 in the real world scenario and at scale, but itís still an EUA and NOT full approval of a vaccine.

Transition Layer 20th Feb 2021 12:24

Here is a classic example of why the various Health Officers around the country have been given way too much authority. They simply donít understand the social and economic consequences of their decisions, and merely see things only from a health perspective. The Premiers need to weigh up the decisions accordingly.

Dr Jeannette Young in QLD, is quoted in todayís SMH:

ďI really donít like having to recommend to the Premier that we close borders,Ē she said. ďItís not helpful, itís very unnatural as well. But I think it was important that you minimise the risk of new cases. I never realised how many people travel every single day [between NSW and Queensland].Ē

SOPS 20th Feb 2021 12:32

Here is an interesting aside.. as looking at it from a view point as my new job as a train diver.

There is a web site called ..the man in seat 61.. itís very interesting about rail travel.

It seems many overnight services in Europe, that were stopped a few years ago, are being started again. People are sick of the airport/ low cost /COVID experience.

Iím not suggesting it will happen here .. just throwing it in for a bit of interest.

dr dre 20th Feb 2021 21:27


Originally Posted by 3Greens (Post 10993994)
well, given that all manufacturers of the vaccines are only applying for emergency use as phase 3 trials are still ongoing, then the Australian approval is exactly the same as every other regulatory body. In the case of Pfizer and AZ, the study will not complete until 2023. This is normal procedure for a phase 3 clinical trial.

Phase 3 trials are more about studying the efficacy of the vaccine rather than safety.

Phase 1 and 2 are more about safety, and if a vaccine is found to be unsafe it generally appears in phase 2.

Any serious side effect like anaphylaxis will show up within the first 15 minutes, thatís why they get you to stay at the injection site for a while after receiving the shot. Still thatís only at a rate of 4.5 per million for Covid vax.

This article explains why vaccines are safe and have been approved whilst some continuing studies are ongoing.

You can trust the worldís overwhelming body of scientific and medical expertise, and not listen to those brain dead morons who protested around the country yesterday like Pete Evans.

McLimit 20th Feb 2021 22:11


Still thatís only at a rate of 4.5 per million for Covid vax.
mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

neville_nobody 20th Feb 2021 22:40


You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.
I reckon the narrative will change as soon as he is safely settled in his second term. He is going to be destroyed economically if he keeps up the current act. WA is reliant on immigrant labour due to lack of population, and they don't have any right now. Mining, Farming, Hospitality plus major public works. He will see runaway wage inflation, public works blowouts, cancelled projects, businesses shutting down if he keeps going the way it is. There are plenty of news articles now about businesses unable to find labour in WA so he won't want that to keep going. If he does nothing eventually he'll get tapped on the shoulder by the minerals council telling him to open the border or else. It also gives a free hit to the Libs who can run the mantra of Labor can't manage the economy.

McLimit 20th Feb 2021 22:45

I read your comment with interest and respect it, but his ego, like most politicians will put personal popularity above all else. He will hold out for as long as possible. Australians are piss weak on this front. It will take pushing the economy over there to pert near economic collapse before anything changes. And of course, you have to deal with the 50% of the population you've just pushed close to mental collapse with fear, anxiety and chaos. How do you now go to them and say, yeah, all good now? Just my opinion of course and not worth a pince of shit!

dr dre 20th Feb 2021 22:46


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10994367)
mmmm, let's all think about that for a moment. The same people that want to lock up a state for one case of covid, that's one in 2.589 million..........

You're expecting them to accept the one in 4.5 million? Not a chance bro, I reckon McClown should reject the vaccine and 'keep western australians safe' with 'an abundance of caution' he is after all 'the most popular premier' ever. And that's what it's all about folks, popularity and numbers.

Seriously, what are you talking about? WA is implementing the vaccine program from next week just like every other state in the nation.

If youíre trying to make a comparison to the use of a lockdown for a small number of cases (which every state has done btw) that argument has been done and dusted and itís time to move on.

It is the introduction of this vaccine that will change the environment that caused those lockdowns to be implemented.

McLimit 20th Feb 2021 22:51

Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.

dr dre 20th Feb 2021 23:07


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10994388)
Uhhhm, I didn't say they weren't vaccinating, I'm saying that there will still be cases of covid AFTER everyone is vaccinated. What's McClown going to do when there are covid cases in other states (and yours) but everyone is vaccinated? I'm saying, your friend McClown will seal borders regardless of vaccination.

Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. Itís not a hard concept to understand.

In response Iíll ask this: If you think the conspiracy is states will just continue to lock borders forever why are they bothering spending money and resources vaccinating people? Why not just keep borders closed forever and use the money elsewhere?

Funny thing is, is that in response to the latest Melbourne outbreak/lockdown WA wasnít even the strictest other state in response, SA implemented a hard border 48hrs prior to WA. And youíll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

McLimit 21st Feb 2021 00:35


Health advice that triggered border closures was based on an unvaccinated population. Reaching various levels of immunisation changes that. It’s not a hard concept to understand.
Dude, read the health advice now, look at the damage that has been done in other health areas. Your 'not hard concept' may be understood by intelligent people but it doesn't seem to be understood by an epidemiologist that's looking at one problem in isolation.


conspiracy
Who said ANYTHING about a conspiracy?? Mate, I'm far removed from a Pete Evans. I'm looking at the broader picture. And I'm looking at behaviours.

Stardoggas 21st Feb 2021 01:16

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....449bed86f7.jpg

regitaekilthgiwt 21st Feb 2021 10:53


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10994396)
And youíll find WA has now adopted a more sensible approach to crew isolation as well.

Hahahahahaha ah no. They are still as stupid as ever. But at least the rest of Australia isnít as <canít write the rest here as itís not socially acceptable>.

dr dre 21st Feb 2021 11:34


Originally Posted by Lockhart (Post 10994672)
Watched the mens final and after the match the chair of TA in her final speech for the weekend, gave a subtle hint to
the premiers about opening up the borders by the remark,' 2021 is going to be a great year with the introduction of the vaccine'.
Then followed a stack of boos from the crowd. I found that hilarious.

Well most of the crowd were fervently supporting a player whoís made some stupid statements on vaccines recently so not really surprised they had that reaction.

In better news a study out from the UK showing 95% of over 70s have had a vaccine dose, the number who have declined one despite being offered? Only 1%.

fl dutchman 21st Feb 2021 22:45


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10994723)
Well most of the crowd were fervently supporting a player whoís made some stupid statements on vaccines recently so not really surprised they had that reaction.

In better news a study out from the UK showing 95% of over 70s have had a vaccine dose, the number who have declined one despite being offered? Only 1%.


Boris in the UK is now saying All over 50s will be offered at least one vaccination by 15 April. Also All adults will be offered one vaccination by July, Meaning all adults will have been offered Two vaccines by Sept/Oct. (About 66 million population)

From what I hear Australia will have vaccinated all adults by Sept/Oct.

So does that mean by say October 21 the Australian borders will then open to international travelers from the UK. Allowing people to see there Sons, Daughters, Grandchildren and Parents again. Or is the current situation going to go on forever.

1A_Please 21st Feb 2021 23:52


Originally Posted by fl dutchman (Post 10995036)
Boris in the UK is now saying All over 50s will be offered at least one vaccination by 15 April. Also All adults will be offered one vaccination by July, Meaning all adults will have been offered Two vaccines by Sept/Oct. (About 66 million population)

From what I hear Australia will have vaccinated all adults by Sept/Oct.

So does that mean by say October 21 the Australian borders will then open to international travelers from the UK. Allowing people to see there Sons, Daughters, Grandchildren and Parents again. Or is the current situation going to go on forever.

It will depend on a few things.
One thing will be green-zone routes. This will be end-to-end flights with no transit passengers joining along the way. For example, SQ will not be able to use its SIN hub to have pax join and leave the flights to and from other destinations. Obviously this would favour someone like QF who can operate LHR-PER non-stop. BA or VS could also do the same. Airlines like EK or SQ that rely on exploiting their well-located hubs to fill their planes will continue to be in a world of pain.
It is also likely that pre-flight testing will also remain so before boarding airlines will require proof of vaccination along with a negative test within the previous 72 hours. Hopefully 14 days quarantine won't be required on arrival or the whole process is doomed.

Realistically, Australia has been very cautious throughout the whole pandemic and I wouldn't be planning on int'l flights before 1 January 2022.


Dannyboy39 22nd Feb 2021 04:06

I really donít get the need for testing if youíve had the vaccine. Not saying youíre wrong, but if youíre fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

morno 22nd Feb 2021 04:30


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10995098)
I really donít get the need for testing if youíve had the vaccine. Not saying youíre wrong, but if youíre fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

The vaccine wonít entirely stop you getting covid from my understanding, itíll just reduce the effects of getting it. I guess while itís still so prevalent worldwide, the chance is still there that you can be carrying it.

Maybe when numbers have come right down worldwide, the risk of an inbound traveller carrying it will be greatly reduced, then the need for pre-flight testing will become unnecessary.

PoppaJo 22nd Feb 2021 05:18

1/3 Cairns is on Jobkeeper. This wonderful place is on the verge of collapse.

Annastacia nowhere to be seen.


Chris2303 22nd Feb 2021 05:42


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10995098)
I really donít get the need for testing if youíve had the vaccine. Not saying youíre wrong, but if youíre fully protected, what are you looking for? A new variant?

Because you aren't necessarily fully protected especially, as you say, against mutations

jrfsp 22nd Feb 2021 07:05


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 10995135)
1/3 Cairns is on Jobkeeper. This wonderful place is on the verge of collapse.

Annastacia nowhere to be seen.

https://twitter.com/ABCthedrum/statu...​​

TBH Cairns has been in decline for years, while its sad, it needs to reinvent itself as a city to live in, not just for holidays. Even with domestic travel, it wont make up for the lack of international tourists. The spending habits are vastly different.

Dannyboy39 22nd Feb 2021 07:05


Originally Posted by morno (Post 10995118)
The vaccine won’t entirely stop you getting covid from my understanding, it’ll just reduce the effects of getting it. I guess while it’s still so prevalent worldwide, the chance is still there that you can be carrying it.

Maybe when numbers have come right down worldwide, the risk of an inbound traveller carrying it will be greatly reduced, then the need for pre-flight testing will become unnecessary.

And here you have ladies and gentlemen the reason why foreign traveller quarantines will continue seemingly indefinitely and exactly what I predicted would happen. The purpose of the vaccine is to protect against severe disease, not necessarily mild infection. If this policy comes in, the world will never reopen. We are only finding the Kent variant for example, because the UK has half of the world's genomic testing. Seemingly a Nigerian variant was found around Christmas, but you never hear about it because no one is looking for it.

Hypothetical situation - I have a booking from LHR-DXB-BNE from 6 Dec 2021 (FWIW I have) - I have had two doses of the vaccine, as have all Australians who want one. I then present with asymptomatic Covid-19 which the vaccine is protecting me from getting mildly ill. I have to shell out £150 for a test too, which I can afford, but clearly don't want to pay out. Who am I endangering?

Viruses mutate - that is what they do. All vaccines, albeit some less so, protect against disease, but all protect against severe disease. I don't mind getting a little bit sick as long as I don't end up in hospital clearly.

currawong 22nd Feb 2021 08:14

Hypothetical situation -

Get yourself a fundamental understanding of how vaccines work.

:ok:

patty50 22nd Feb 2021 08:21

Hypothetically if someone was desperate to come for the Ashes they might try their luck convincing whoever they can that itís in everyoneís best interest that the rules change to accommodate them.

We donít let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.

KRviator 22nd Feb 2021 10:42


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 10995248)
We donít let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.

Just preventable ones. Smoking and lung cancer for example...

Dannyboy39 22nd Feb 2021 10:55


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 10995248)
We donít let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.

Iíve read this back three times and I havenít a clue what youíre trying to convince.

Dannyboy39 22nd Feb 2021 11:13


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10995235)
Hypothetical situation -

Get yourself a fundamental understanding of how vaccines work.

:ok:

I have a fair understanding - they intend to prevent severe disease and in this case significantly reduce transmission. Am I wrong?

BA_Baracas 22nd Feb 2021 15:37


Originally Posted by patty50 (Post 10995248)
Hypothetically if someone was desperate to come for the Ashes they might try their luck convincing whoever they can that itís in everyoneís best interest that the rules change to accommodate them.

We donít let other communicable diseases rip through society just because we have vaccines.



So what metric are you waiting for to allow international travel again?
Personally, I have no need or desire to travel to Oz anymore, but I donít quite get what your strategy is.

Zero COVID cases? If so youíre never gonna see international travel again.
The vaccine will prevent severe disease, but wonít stop transmission.
If full vaccination is not good enough for you then what is?

There will be future mutations, nothing can be done about that and this virus is going nowhere. Either we learn to live with it, or life even close to what we knew, is over.

Personally, Iíd like to learn to live with it. Life as it is right now is not for me

SHVC 22nd Feb 2021 19:43

That’s it BA! Each state premier (except Gladys) have installed fear about this virus for their political gain. Now the vaccine is rolling out there must be a common ground for acceptable level of the virus, as there is for others. The problem is the baby boomers and bogans that have all this fear inside them will let those same politicians know. It will be interesting to see what rhetoric McGoose pushes after his March election. Will he stick hard to zero cases then we’ll WA f$&ked royally as they have no work force. I think WA is f$&kef royally anyway as the baby boomers and bogans there will not change their thought process about the virus. Queen P up on the North well her actions are being seen now and her carnage is becoming very apparent everyday, I wonder if she pushed her CMO to make those comments about not realizing that so many ppl travel etc, surely a Dr couldn’t be that stupid!

Going Nowhere 22nd Feb 2021 20:49

Take a trip up to FNQ and have a look at the effects of the lack of tourism.

CNS is deserted. Itís quite sad to see and itíll take a very long time to restore the confidence of travellers from the Southern states. Theyíre the ones who spend the big $$$ domestically.

Global Aviator 22nd Feb 2021 21:10

Yep borders need to come down and concentrate on the national approach.

2021 should be a booming year for domestic tourism. VIC/NSW snow fields for winter, NT/QLD for the dry, remote Australia, WA so much to offer, Tassie.

Aus has it all, no not ideal as people like me love overseas travel but for now Aus will do, open the borders, keep them open and promote AUSTRALIAN DOMESTIC TOURISM.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 22nd Feb 2021 22:18

There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

Global Aviator 22nd Feb 2021 22:28


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10995811)
There's a reason people didn't holiday in Australia pre-COVID, and it hasn't gone away. It's farkin expensive!! Especially so if you have a family and are tied to peak times such as school holidays etc. in an environment where you are a captive market.

I certainly agree, however this year there ainít many other options. Stay home or travel domestically (yes even in your own backyard). School holidays will be interesting! Now if only everything apart from the airfares were more affordable! People will still travel.

blubak 23rd Feb 2021 01:26


Originally Posted by Global Aviator (Post 10995782)
Yep borders need to come down and concentrate on the national approach.

2021 should be a booming year for domestic tourism. VIC/NSW snow fields for winter, NT/QLD for the dry, remote Australia, WA so much to offer, Tassie.

Aus has it all, no not ideal as people like me love overseas travel but for now Aus will do, open the borders, keep them open and promote AUSTRALIAN DOMESTIC TOURISM.

Very hard on the asian countries that rely so much on australian tourists but for now to keep us safe & as covid free as possible & to support our domestic tourism the dollars we have in our pockets need to be spent in our own backyard.
There are so many great destinations in every state that can be enjoyed & right now the places & people that rely on tourism need & want our business.


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