PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific-90/)
-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

cessnapete 12th Feb 2021 07:13

Just for information, does Australia/ NZ have a vaccination programme in place.? We can’t eliminate C19 in the long term, and vaccines seem the way out to a life of some normalcy worldwide.
Or is the idea to stay shut off from the rest of the World with a 0 infection C19 policy, as they fortunately have now.

Global Aviator 12th Feb 2021 07:16


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10988987)
I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

Tick tock tick tock more QF on the clock....... Howard Springs surely makes sense to ramp up! It is there, has 3000 beds, yes needs a shite load of logistics to get more staff ready. However to date it has shown it works. Arrivals from hotspots constantly. Iíve only been bleating on about this for 6 months.

Iíd put money on Wagnerís and Wellcamp to.

Now the real common sense one........ Cruise ships off shore......

Square Bear 12th Feb 2021 07:20


So DA hard kick down again only 4 reason to leave home! Australian Open better be canceled now as it does not fall into the 4 reasons
Daniel Andrews has declared the AO Stadium as a workplace and the Tennis Players and support staff are declared as ESSENTIAL WORKERS, which means the AO goes on sans spectators.

In his interview he also stated that discussion should be had to stop Australian citizens from overseas coming back to Australia.

Hardly surprising I suppose, Andrews has form for locking Victorians out of their home State, so I guess he is now simply ramping it up to stop Australians returning to Australia no matter what State they are from.

Thankfully he is only the Victorian Premier and his failing are confined to that State.

KRviator 12th Feb 2021 07:40


Originally Posted by Square Bear (Post 10989038)
Thankfully he is only the Victorian Premier and his failing are confined to that State.

No...They're not. His failings can - and have - had nationwide ramifications. And that's a serious problem.

The WA border is supposed to reopen to NSW without restriction from 2359 Tuesday. That will not happen if a Mexican spreads so much as a sniffle in NSW. Look what happened last time, open for, what, a week? Then closed for another 2 months.

dr dre 12th Feb 2021 07:50


Originally Posted by McLimit (Post 10989011)
Not me, I partially decide who I like and trust based on whether they're a liar.

Jeez is there a politician out there who hasnít lied at one point in time? I bet everyone of them has told a veritable lie at least once.

McLimit 12th Feb 2021 07:56

OK, I'll tighten it up for you. A serial liar, one that has no qualms throwing all around him under the bus, one who lies about his part in 800 deaths. Granted, Gladys may have lied about 1 or 2 roots, but so have I, but neither of us are in the aforementioned league.

currawong 12th Feb 2021 08:13


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10988874)
I don't want 500 cases, however, as to why I would want to?

Maybe to keep Australia as one nation, rather than the 6 different micro-nations we have become. Maybe to give certainty to everyone from tourist operators to airlines to Joe Q Public and his dying father that 'ol Joe can get to his funeral. Maybe because I live in NSW and work in WA and would like to actually get paid at some point to keep my house - because I have not been to work for nearly a year, am not eligible for JobKeeper (employer turnover hasn't dropped enough) and am not eligible for any Centrelink benefits ("You're still employed, you haven't resigned nor been sacked".) Maybe because I don't consider it fair for NSW to have brought home tens of thousands more Australians than any other state with the risk of an HQ-breach that that entails - yet they are getting screwed over time and time again by Premiers who won't do their fair share. Maybe because I think people should themselves take responsibility for their healthcare & wellbeing instead of praising scumbags like McGowan "who kept us safe for so long". Or maybe it is because I firmly believe if you give a politician an inch, they'll take a mile. People endorsing the locking out of 30% of Australia's citizens over one case, whose source is known only reinforce such punitive measures remain acceptable for the smallest infraction of anything the CHO, Police Minister (in his role as EMO) or Premier might dream up in future, and I think that is wrong.

Take your pick of any of the above. If there is a genuine risk, fine. One case in 8.5 million people is not a genuine risk to a state that warrants a border closure, no matter how you try to show it is.
So wash your bloody hands, wear a mask and don't sneeze over people in the food court at the local shops. Take some responsibility for your own wellbeing instead of expecting Australia to bend over and take it up the asre "to keep you safe".

Hang in there mate.

Things will turn a corner, for the better, in about 18 days.

Just have to keep a lid on it till then.

DirectAnywhere 12th Feb 2021 08:28


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10988987)
I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

I think you may be right. I suspect this may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Dan Andrews' primary political concern now is how to get Vic out of lockdown and keep it out. He can't continue like this. There will be a revolt at some stage.

I'm forecasting Victoria's temporary ban on international arrivals may become more permanent. People stuck overseas are not his political problem, they're a federal problem and people are blaming the federal government for it. Banning any international arrivals will keep the virus out while simultaneously turning a state quarantine problem in to a federal one and, given the federal government is from the other camp, I think he'll be more than happy to do it at this point.

Other Labor premiers may follow suit. Watch this space I reckon.

SOPS 12th Feb 2021 08:39


Originally Posted by DirectAnywhere (Post 10989092)
I think you may be right. I suspect this may well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Dan Andrews' primary political concern now is how to get Vic out of lockdown and keep it out. He can't continue like this. There will be a revolt at some stage.

I'm forecasting Victoria's temporary ban on international arrivals may become more permanent. People stuck overseas are not his political problem, they're a federal problem and people are blaming the federal government for it. Banning any international arrivals will keep the virus out while simultaneously turning a state quarantine problem in to a federal one and, given the federal government is from the other camp, I think he'll be more than happy to do it at this point.

Other Labor premiers may follow suit. Watch this space I reckon.

I agree. Mark McGowan has been asking the Feds for months for the ability to use Christmas Island (and other places) for months. I can see him saying.. ok, we canít cope, only 200 ( insert a number) arrivals per week now.

Angle of Attack 12th Feb 2021 10:56

Well whippedy doo, I think the only benefit of this outbreak is that the media are now seriously asking if hotel quarantine is safe. I donít care how many thousands or millions of people you process through hotel quarantine, the fact is that there are leaks pretty much every couple of weeks. How expensive will be the 5 day lockdown in VIC? How expensive was Perth, Brisbane and previous Mel lockdown? Iíll tell you how expensive, thousands more times expensive than if you had listened to the epidemiologists a year ago saying Hotel Quarantine is a Short term solution and built/ramped up facilities with remote cabins like Howard Springs/wellcamp etc. Sometimes I really doubt the health advice line the pollies make when this obvious one has been ignored. But I feel a change and I think the public wonít accept taking these infected Australians anymore unless they are dealt with appropriately. Get them out of hotels limit the numbers and put them only in Gold Standard facilities like Howard Springs.

PoppaJo 12th Feb 2021 11:29

Certainly a rush on Biz Jets from Avalon and Essendon in the last few hours for the well heeled looking to get out of the place.

Square Bear 12th Feb 2021 11:39


put them only in Gold Standard facilities like Howard Springs.
You do realise that Howard Springs is a mere 30 minute drive from the Darwin CBD, a mere 12 mins drive from Palmerston City, and is situated within Howard Springs? Where do you think that the Quarantine workers come from...at a quick guess .... if not the Darwin CBD, most likely its suburbs and what the bet they frequent the Shops, Pubs etc where everyone else in Darwin goes.

Anyway, who would have thought life was fraught with such dangers, ...might cancel my Licences (Aviation, Car, Motorbike, and Jet-ski and sell my pushy and get rid of my jogging shoes...damn, almost forgot, my surfboard, body board and snorkelling equipment....plus...plus...plus.

Point is, yes manage the risk...and some Politicians seem to manage it better than others, and seem to have less need to hyperventilate or make populous statements when they get in front of a microphone or TV camera.

But, hey....at least I can sit back and watch the Australian Open Elite "Essential Workers" play tennis in the gazetted Work Place whilst locked up. :ok:

(Politcal spin ...just love it, makes my day when I see it)



Lockhart 12th Feb 2021 12:02


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10988987)
I think a push for change is coming. To move HQ out of the cities.

However, according to the fantastic scientists and health scholars they have come to the conclusion that
city hotels, are very adequate a third lockdown was just a bad luck situation.
A 5 day lockdown is just the entree. It will take that amount of time to find a few more cases, and
then Mr Dan will offer the main course come Wednesday. It's like he got bored after 122 pressers last year
and he needs another dose.

blubak 12th Feb 2021 22:14


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10989101)
I agree. Mark McGowan has been asking the Feds for months for the ability to use Christmas Island (and other places) for months. I can see him saying.. ok, we canít cope, only 200 ( insert a number) arrivals per week now.

In agreeance here too,its probably time now that the federal govt takes the job of looking after australian citizens & puts a system in place that they control.
If scomo likes the NSW system which has worked very well,that is what he needs to use but whatever is decided the feds need to run it with their rules,their staff & no input from any state.
The guy who was using the neubiliser is claiming he told authorities he had it,maybe he did,maybe he didnt,we will never know.
Whatever the truth is & whoever we decide to blame the fact remains these outbreaks are crippling travel & the economy whilst the blame game continues & scomo stands by & watches without deciding anything.
There have been outbreaks from HQ in a few states now & it will happen again somewhere but there seems to be a united front unfolding from many states now saying the feds need to take notice,have a look at the comments from the qld act premier today..

SHVC 12th Feb 2021 23:24

So, for everyone that thinks HQ should occur in remote areas where would you suggest? what township do you propose to dump these internationals? where do these internationals land? not including military QLD has a few airports that can handle it NSW maybe one, VIC has one other (Avalon) so point is there will always be double handling of infectious ppl in the transport from plane to donga. Then a bus might break down 200km from destination imagine that what a nightmare punters just had a 12hr flight and now 2hrs into a 4.5hr bus ride good luck controlling them.

Just say, if Sco Mo caves to this idea he ask each state and territory leader to nominate a regional area within their own state for this new quarantine facility, where do you think Dan will nominate? the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state. I would like to hear what the Toowoomba residents think of Pooches idea she even said she would want the workers to live there at this new camp hope she will pay 6 figures ill do it, but her election has cone and gone has yrs to get the ppl to like her again.

The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility and washed his hands clean but thinks he is in a position to have digs at other states well wake up Dan you need to call other states and get some advice on handling this.

currawong 12th Feb 2021 23:25

Go back a few months, the debate was suppression vs elimination.

Elimination was "unrealistic". Suppression was the way forward for our situation.

This is what suppression looks like.

LapSap 12th Feb 2021 23:35

https://www.smh.com.au/national/vict...12-p5723f.html

Ah yes, The Gold Standard.

Green.Dot 12th Feb 2021 23:59


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10989608)
The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility

Did anyone actually expect him to change?

And this to take the ďgold standardĒ award at the national HQ championships....

https://www.smh.com.au/national/i-fe...12-p571ze.html

If the average Victorian doesnít feel let down by their Government (again), they should.


lucille 13th Feb 2021 01:03

Green.Dot... indeed However the population in Australia has been terrified into submission. The polls say that Victorians think the sun shines out of Dan’s rear end. Queenslanders reflected the odious PM all because they felt she “saved” them from certain death. I’m guessing the Vics also feel a lifetime Debt of gratitude to Dan for saving them from a horrible certain death.

There is no light at the end of this tunnel.

jrfsp 13th Feb 2021 01:11

While Howard Springs is hardly remote, if it did escape into the community, the economic cost of shutting down what is really a fairly minor population centre would be far less for the national economy, and "only" impacting 150K ish people.

I think the real success of howard springs is the fact that its not a hotel - with risk of transmission is greatly reduced, with individual cabins with their own air con. The nebulizer incident would be far more unlikely in this setting.

Green.Dot 13th Feb 2021 01:19


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10989642)
While Howard Springs is hardly remote, if it did escape into the community, the economic cost of shutting down what is really a fairly minor population centre would be far less for the national economy, and "only" impacting 150K ish people.

Using similar logic I would have thought Cairns, Townsville and Rocky would be good options. Would fill up hotels supporting an already struggling tourism industry. Long enough runways, customs, quarantine & each is a suitable divert complimenting the others. Hospitals, the works. Wouldnít fit in line with the Chooks ďkeeping QLDers safeĒ mantra though and wouldnít get up with North QLD MPs.

SOPS 13th Feb 2021 01:32

SHVC... Christmas Island was used at the very beginning of this mess. There is no good reason why it canít be used again.

Lockhart 13th Feb 2021 01:57

If you google earth, Curtin Air Base their is so much room you could build a city around it. Hundreds of dongers
a med unit etc. Fly straight in, quarantine 14 days, once cleared return to your own state. Do this on a ongoing rolling
basis you cold all aussies home soon enough. Put it this way this, operation would be so much cheaper
than a total state lockdown.

currawong 13th Feb 2021 02:50

It is rapidly becoming academic where quarantine is anyway.

At the end of the month, quarantine, border and frontline medical are to be vaccinated.

Which will break the chain right where the problem lies.

On eyre 13th Feb 2021 02:55


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10989664)
It is rapidly becoming academic where quarantine is anyway.

At the end of the month, quarantine, border and frontline medical are to be vaccinated.

Which will break the chain right where the problem lies.

Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.

Dannyboy39 13th Feb 2021 03:02


Originally Posted by On eyre (Post 10989666)
Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.

66% reduction in transmission for AZ, Iím not sure about the other vaccines.

Not enough for Australia I guess though...

SHVC 13th Feb 2021 03:13

UK seem to be having good results not sure if it’s the vaccine or the lockdown tho.

Lockhart 13th Feb 2021 03:20


Originally Posted by On eyre (Post 10989666)
Not necessarily - as I understand it vaccination will protect that person from becoming seriously ill from the virus. It is still unsure whether vaccination will stop the subsequently infected person from being contagious and thereby possibly passing the virus on. I stand to be corrected on this however.

So another words it reduces Covid-19 down to flu status or even better. So what's the problem? If you catch it, so what it's not going to kill you.
Then you may as well lockdown for flu, which no one has done in all the winters that have passed.

blubak 13th Feb 2021 03:27


Originally Posted by lucille (Post 10989637)
Green.Dot... indeed However the population in Australia has been terrified into submission. The polls say that Victorians think the sun shines out of Danís rear end. Queenslanders reflected the odious PM all because they felt she ďsavedĒ them from certain death. Iím guessing the Vics also feel a lifetime Debt of gratitude to Dan for saving them from a horrible certain death.

There is no light at the end of this tunnel.

I dont think the sun shines where you suggest so you are assuming a lot.
Everybody can decide for themselves who they believe is to blame or where the blame lies.
I believe the guy who had the neubiliser has run to the age newspaper making claims he is innocent,i thought he was in icu in a serious condition,im sure i am mistaken though as the government are to blame!
A couple of weeks ago we had tennis players telling the media how badly they had been treated & they didnt understand the rules but it wasnt too many days later apologies were issued by many of the same people but anyway im sure again that is the fault of the government.
I have listened to Andrews today along with Sutton & the testing commander & just a short time ago Prof Kelly,the chief med officer.
Are they all idiots/fools?,mmm maybe they are but i dont think so.
I spoke to a relative in a european country this morning & she said she wished their govt had acted quickly instead of them now being in a lockdown with no end in sight & daily numbers around 1000 & up to 100 deaths per day.

currawong 13th Feb 2021 03:34

" For most pathogens and most people, a vaccinated person cannot pass on the disease at all."

"Most vaccines do completely eliminate the pathogen or prevent it ever becoming established"

" I have been an immuno-geneticist for 20 years"


From a parallel thread over on Middle East. Contributor is double_barrel


rattman 13th Feb 2021 03:41


Originally Posted by Dannyboy39 (Post 10989667)
66% reduction in transmission for AZ, Iím not sure about the other vaccines.

Not enough for Australia I guess though...

Numbers, new infections and a deaths, world wide are on the decline. Its not one thing, its a combination of things

brokenagain 13th Feb 2021 03:48

Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.

blubak 13th Feb 2021 03:54


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 10989681)
Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course itís not reported in the news, good news doesnít sell.

Spot on,its only the negative headlines that make people take notice.

dr dre 13th Feb 2021 04:12


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 10989681)

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course itís not reported in the news, good news doesnít sell.

I wonder if some who claim ďthe media are lying to usĒ actually read the media that supposedly isnít reporting this news?:

Coronavirus R number falls below 1 in UK for first time since July - The Guardian

Global COVID-19 cases declined 17 per cent last week, WHO says - 9 News

​​​​​​​
Seeds of hope as new global COVID-19 case numbers sag - SBS News

Clare Prop 13th Feb 2021 05:30


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10989608)
So, for everyone that thinks HQ should occur in remote areas where would you suggest? what township do you propose to dump these internationals? where do these internationals land? not including military QLD has a few airports that can handle it NSW maybe one, VIC has one other (Avalon) so point is there will always be double handling of infectious ppl in the transport from plane to donga. Then a bus might break down 200km from destination imagine that what a nightmare punters just had a 12hr flight and now 2hrs into a 4.5hr bus ride good luck controlling them.

Just say, if Sco Mo caves to this idea he ask each state and territory leader to nominate a regional area within their own state for this new quarantine facility, where do you think Dan will nominate? the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state. I would like to hear what the Toowoomba residents think of Pooches idea she even said she would want the workers to live there at this new camp hope she will pay 6 figures ill do it, but her election has cone and gone has yrs to get the ppl to like her again.

The issue here is Dan, he is the worst kind remember last year he said the buck stops with him he is ultimately responsible etc well he has not taken any responsibility and washed his hands clean but thinks he is in a position to have digs at other states well wake up Dan you need to call other states and get some advice on handling this.

Here in the West we have the "bare bases" Curtin and Learmonth, taxpayers have paid for massive runways that could take international flights, RFDS for anyone that gets really sick, just like anyone else in the bush.
RAAF bare bases - Wikipedia

WingNut60 13th Feb 2021 05:55


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10989608)
.............the mad man of the west wants to use another island FFS he doesn't even want them in his state...........

Though not exactly "in his state", Christmas Island has very close ties with W.A. and is, to a large extent, administered and supported from W.A.
If you had ever forced yourself to go west of the Penrith Panthers Leagues Club you might know about that.

Downside of even considering Christmas Island is 7000 ft runway.
It is serviced from W.A. by using 737s only.

SHVC 13th Feb 2021 06:06

That’s all well and good, but how do you look after all these ppl in these remote places like Learmonth and Curtin?! McGoose wants to keep it out of the indigenous communities among other like FIFO you’re just moving it closer. I just watched McGoose press conference seems he is unable to string a sentence together unless he is reading a script sounds very disconnected with what is actually happening when he speaks.

WingNut60 13th Feb 2021 06:17


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10989713)
Thatís all well and good, but how do you look after all these ppl in these remote places like Learmonth and Curtin?! McGoose wants to keep it out of the indigenous communities among other like FIFO youíre just moving it closer.

A security fence and a 30 km walk through the spinifex to an aboriginal community is less incentivising for most people than "out the back door for a Big Mac then hit the leagues clubs".


I just watched McGoose press conference seems he is unable to string a sentence together unless he is reading a script sounds very disconnected with what is actually happening when he speaks.
At least he might know how to use punctuation in a sentence. You know, full stops, capital letters, commas and stuff.

Clare Prop 13th Feb 2021 06:22

Christmas has got ex cons whose visas have been cancelled, waiting to be deported. Christmas Island detention centre site of riot as detainees set fires - ABC News

The detention centre is a federal facility, not a state one.




Dannyboy39 13th Feb 2021 06:44


Originally Posted by brokenagain (Post 10989681)
Coronavirus Worldwide Graphs

Worldwide daily cases have been declining for over a month now, and are at the lowest rate since October last year. Or course it’s not reported in the news, good news doesn’t sell.

Most of Europe is in lockdown currently - heck I've not seen my family for around 7 weeks now. As we've seen, as soon as lockdowns end, the virus comes back... if that doesn't sound obvious. If there wasn't a real reduction in cases, something would've been wrong.

My theory is that the vaccine is taking more of an effect than what people are reporting - most of the people receiving it, certainly in the UK, will be the most exposed to it (i.e. health workers / elderly). Perhaps a situation where if someone has had a vaccine, they are less likely to go for a test thinking they are totally protected.

Case numbers are not the only indicator - I understand in Turkey they have reduced testing, but their case positivity rate has shot up? The UK were doing 300,000 tests a day, whereas a country in Eastern Europe where I was flying to semi-often was doing about 3,000 a day.


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:26.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.