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Originally Posted by michigan j
(Post 10889983)
Excerpt from Crikey.com
For a start, there’s the obvious inconsistency. If you test positive to COVID-19, you are asked to quarantine at home. That is, the Australian government trusts you to do the right thing. By contrast, if you are returning from overseas and test negative, you are still required to stay in a three-star hotel for 14 days. Up until July, this was all at taxpayer expense (Victoria and ACT have not yet stipulated any costs for returning travellers, but theses states are also not currently accepting international flights). So to clarify: if you test positive to COVID, please stay home. If you happen to come from another country and test negative to COVID, you’re staying at the Rydges for two weeks. It’s also baffling that, unlike other countries such as Singapore, the Australian government treats residents returning from every country the same way. If you come from India (92,000 cases per day) you are subject to the exact same requirements as if you came from Vietnam (one case per day). Moreover, the quarantine period is excessively long. While the virus’ incubation period does extend to 14 days, the median time for symptoms to present is around five days. Taiwan, the gold standard of COVID management, requires only five days of quarantine for those returning from low-risk countries. Then there’s the other issue: as Victoria showed, hotel quarantine is far from foolproof. It relies on a number of checks and balances and human intervention (not to mention, it’s expensive — travellers are charged around $3000 for the stay). While Victoria was the high watermark of incompetence, it certainly was not alone — NSW and WA have also had their own hotel quarantine issues. Given Australia has (rightly or wrongly) pursued a policy of elimination, it would make far more sense to allow returning travellers to quarantine at home under strict conditions. The most obvious would be to require a negative test: provide a rapid test upon return and then utilise a location tracker like electronic ankle tags (or the Singapore/Canada model, which involves check-ins via phone). If a person under home quarantine breaches quarantine (or has a guest in their residence), they would be heavily fined ($10,000+) and forced to spend three weeks in a hotel. Random in-person checks could also be used. Edited to correct gross estimation of accommodation costs. |
Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer
(Post 10889993)
to spring for 12K in accommodation costs is just un-Australian.
Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10890020)
I am assuming you just guessed that number ! In queensland a family of 4, 2 adults and 2 children costs $4,620. Thats not even close to the number you made up.
Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10890020)
Edit thats in a serviced apartment not a hotel |
Originally Posted by michigan j
(Post 10890103)
You get to choose?
(edited in exclamation point for it to make sense) |
Originally Posted by rattman
(Post 10890106)
No singles and couples are put into hotel rooms,…...
No. Singles and couples are put into hotel rooms. |
Originally Posted by C441
(Post 10890121)
You missed a full stop.
No. Singles and couples are put into hotel rooms. Ahh yeah actually meant and exclamation mark there, but yes you are correct I will edit it |
Originally Posted by michigan j
(Post 10890103)
You get to choose?
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NSW still killing their pandemic control plan Zero cases today, wonder if Queen P will be to proud to change her plan!
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Of course not. She hasn't been re-elected yet! See what happens in 5 weeks.....
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Did you miss me turnleft, you're allowed out of your room now.
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JobKeeper and JobSeeker payments reduced....now let’s see the States reaction and say it is based on “Medical Advice”.
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Originally Posted by Square Bear
(Post 10894747)
JobKeeper and JobSeeker payments reduced....now let’s see the States reaction and say it is based on “Medical Advice”.
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Being a rumour network, I heard someone from a charter org asking the NT chief minister whats the deal because he cant get permission to fly into Darwin from international locations. The chief minister said that Darwin is only taking international students and farm workers from international locations.
Seems a bit rough to deny charters carrying Australians, but allow farm workers and students (but only if not Australian) |
I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!
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Originally Posted by Bad Adventures
(Post 10895221)
I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!
Do you think he should keep his job? Every other state/ territory is restricted, regardless of the politics of the premier. On the advice of a non aligned Chief Medical or Health Officer. Only one border is closed to outbound traffic though... https://www.interstatequarantine.org...rder-closures/ |
Originally Posted by Bad Adventures
(Post 10895221)
I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!
Gladys closed the border to Vic, not the other way round. |
Originally Posted by Bad Adventures
(Post 10895221)
I hope all these power tripping Labour Premiers get thrown out on their arses come election time for keeping these borders closed. It’s a disgrace!
|
Originally Posted by currawong
(Post 10895287)
Do you think he should keep his job?
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Originally Posted by jrfsp
(Post 10895301)
Mark McGowan is likely to win by the largest majority ever.....the WA population support the border closure by something like 93%.
I think no one expected Victoria to get their situation under control this quickly (thanks Dictator Dan!), so maybe the WA government thought Victoria will still be in trouble for the rest of the year. And for a while it looked like NSW were on the cusp of a Victorian style outbreak too. Now with Victoria driving cases numbers down hard they should where NSW/Qld are today in about a month. So on track for eastern states re-opening in December. If there’s no trouble then it could be a political disadvantage if the border is still closed for another 3 months. So preparations may have to be made to shadow the East coast re-openings by a few weeks. Contact tracers being recruited en masse in WA now. I’ve heard rumblings about a potential early December re-opening. Fits in well with the High Court trial. I think the key is to wait until October 26 when most Melbourne lockdown restrictions lifted, if the cases are stilling trending toward zero it’ll make a good case in order for all borders to be open by Christmas. For some light reading here’s a Grattan Institute document explaining the reasons why aiming for zero cases is an achievable goal and the best option, and how that can be achieved this year: Go for zero: How Australia can get to zero COVID-19 cases |
I’m a Liberal voter. However in the next WA election, for the first time in my life.. I will vote Labor. ( Would never do it for a federal election).
I will be surprised if the Libs get 3 seats in the lower house at the next WA election. |
I would contend that the advice that each premier received would have been the same regardless of their colour.
Would not want to be the premier explaining why they disregarded that medical advice when the inevitable inquiry/royal commission comes about. Very hard position for opposition politics to argue "disregard the medical advice". This thing has been a poison chalice for all sides of politics. Personally, I think divisive reporting and frankly kooky bloggers are making hard work out of a pretty straightforward exercise. This thing will be over soon. Right now we, Australia, are looking pretty good compared to elsewhere. |
Originally Posted by currawong
(Post 10895415)
This thing will be over soon.
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Originally Posted by ruprecht
(Post 10895430)
Define “soon”. :confused:
As I see it, cases are zeroing out. We are headed into summer, airbourne pathogens don't tend to do well outside of winter. Vaccines are close. Entirely possible before our next winter when case numbers can be expected to rise again. With the bottoming out of case numbers, borders will open. Border exemption areas are already expanding. We are looking in good shape. Much of the northern hemisphere though are facing surging numbers on the way into winter. Not good shape. With care, over in Australia. With caveats. |
Originally Posted by ruprecht
(Post 10895430)
Define “soon”. :confused:
|
Originally Posted by currawong
(Post 10895444)
Very fair point. "Over" is probably a relative term too...
As I see it, cases are zeroing out. We are headed into summer, airbourne pathogens don't tend to do well outside of winter. Vaccines are close. Entirely possible before our next winter when case numbers can be expected to rise again. With the bottoming out of case numbers, borders will open. Border exemption areas are already expanding. We are looking in good shape. Much of the northern hemisphere though are facing surging numbers on the way into winter. Not good shape. With care, over in Australia. With caveats. - most vaccines fail in Phase 3. So just because the Oxford etc vaccines have made it this far means jack as far as it actually passing into production. - it’s all well and good having said vaccine pass stage 3 and enter production. But have you actually seen the production rates available? Even in China, with 5-6 vaccines in development, it would take them over 12 months using ALL their production facilities to produce enough for their entire population. So best case will probably take 12-24 months to see meaningful coverage from a vaccine that enters production. - “with care”, with all due respect to any Victorians, the two things required to keep COVID out of the community inAustralia (good quarantine and contact tracing), have both been shown to be woefully done in that state. There’s a significant chance that Vic Health still won’t have learnt their lesson to avoid a repeat occurrence happening at some point in the next 6 months. On top of this, I’d argue the QLD and WA tracing systems have not been properly tested yet as they’ve had no significant outbreaks from the quarantine system. NSW has had multiple security guards test positive but they still managed to keep a lid on it, so I’d have confidence in their abilities. |
Originally Posted by CaptCloudbuster
(Post 10895303)
768 deaths and more than 18,000 infections, Yeah / Nah
People need to take their blinkers off & decide if the service was good,just the same as buying a product or a service,if you were happy go there again,if not take the business elsewhere. I really cant believe people vote for a political party based on the name of it & refuse to even concede that anything wrong has been done. |
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/france https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/ About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe. Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave. If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave. Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade. As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave. Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that. You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades. As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus. So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun. |
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
(Post 10898582)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/france https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/ About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe. Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave. If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave. Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade. As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave. Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that. You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades. As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus. So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun. |
Originally Posted by SOPS
(Post 10895350)
I’m a Liberal voter. However in the next WA election, for the first time in my life.. I will vote Labor. ( Would never do it for a federal election).
I will be surprised if the Libs get 3 seats in the lower house at the next WA election. He took the easy zero risk option, but was it the best one? |
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
(Post 10898582)
About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe. Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave. If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave. Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade. As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave. Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that. You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades. As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus. So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun. You've got to wonder, who's been running the show. Have lawyers been saying to govts, if you don't lock down, you'll be sued left, right & centre, when someone dies. |
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
(Post 10898615)
Why the change of heart? Do you honestly think McGowan has done the right thing?
He took the easy zero risk option, but was it the best one? Although interstate and international aviation is suffering out of WA, intrastate isn’t. There’s been a boom in local tourism and buying of local goods, especially luxury goods. Boat sales in booming. The economy isn’t suffering too bad, unemployment dropped and it’s a fair bet there aren’t as many Jobkeeper recipients in WA compared to the rest. There probably is a fairly good argument to keep border restrictions in WA a few months longer to make sure it doesn’t get into our vulnerable indigenous communities. But I do understand the family separation issues and overall national picture, and hope the interstate borders re-open prior to year’s end too. WA was generally being put back on an OK track by McGowan after the Colon Barnett downturn. He deserves credit for not buckling to the Feds when they wanted to disembark that plague ship in Freo as well. So as in any election we then look at the alternative, Liza Harvey? I don’t think even Liberal party supporters want her anywhere near the Premier’s office, that’s assuming more than 10% know who she is. She was only put into the job to cop the inevitable first election loss anyway. The state Libs have virtually nothing to offer and are on track to be wiped out at the next poll. The worst problem for those wanting the interstate border to open was having Clive Palmer front and centre calling for them to open. I bet quite a few people probably wanted the border shut just to keep him out. |
Although interstate and international aviation is suffering out of WA, intrastate isn’t. There’s been a boom in local tourism and buying of local goods, especially luxury goods. Boat sales in booming. The economy isn’t suffering too bad, unemployment dropped and it’s a fair bet there aren’t as many Jobkeeper recipients in WA compared to the rest. There probably is a fairly good argument to keep border restrictions in WA a few months longer to make sure it doesn’t get into our vulnerable indigenous communities. But I do understand the family separation issues and overall national picture, and hope the interstate borders re-open prior to year’s end too. WA was generally being put back on an OK track by McGowan after the Colon Barnett downturn. He deserves credit for not buckling to the Feds when they wanted to disembark that plague ship in Freo as well. So as in any election we then look at the alternative, Liza Harvey? I don’t think even Liberal party supporters want her anywhere near the Premier’s office, that’s assuming more than 10% know who she is. She was only put into the job to cop the inevitable first election loss anyway. The state Libs have virtually nothing to offer and are on track to be wiped out at the next poll. The worst problem for those wanting the interstate border to open was having Clive Palmer front and centre calling for them to open. I bet quite a few people probably wanted the border shut just to keep him out. |
Originally Posted by neville_nobody
(Post 10898994)
............. Sooner or later the WA Labor Party might have to realise they are not running a Communist Dictatorship and are beholden to a few rules that govern the whole country.
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Two Hundred and thirteen BILLION dollars.
That's the budget deficit this year - a stunning turnaround from the projected $5 billion surplus forecast before we locked down the countries towns, cities and state borders. Value of Statistical Life Based on international and Australian research a credible estimate of the value of statistical life is $4.9m and the value of statistical life year is $213,000 in 2019 dollars. A key concept is the value of a statistical life (VSL) which is an estimate of the value society places on reducing the risk of dying. By convention the life is assumed to be the life of a young adult with at least 40 years of life ahead. Source The median age of COVID deaths in Australia remains 86. According to the Australian Institute of Health & Welfare, an 85 year old male in 2018 can expect to live to 91.4, a female to 92.5, so average it out to 92 years (Source). So that's what, 6 years longer than the average COVID death. So how many people would need to be saved to get value for money with those figures? 166,666 senior citizens would need to be "saved" to justify the cost of our current budget deficit. Anybody really think we "got out money's worth"? |
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
(Post 10898582)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk
https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/france https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/germany https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/italy https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/sweden/ About 3 weeks ago we were all wondering how the deaths would match up against the massive increase of cases in Europe. Three weeks is up and deaths have still flatlined which now must prove one thing. This virus loves to attack people with infected tissue. First wave. If you don't have any infected tissue i.e. (healthy people) you will only come asymptomatic as shown on the above graphs. Second wave. Even without a vaccine this virus will fade away just like mers/sars as viruses were meant too. If their is no longer infected tissue (not so healthy people) to infect the virus will become week and fade. As for USA/Brazil/Iran/Israel they still look like their in the first wave. Lockdowns only flatten the curve (government controlled) they cannot eradicate. Europe has just proven that. You will always get a cluster here and there. Why? It needs to spread and infect healthy tissue before it fades. As I said moons ago lockdowns only prolong the virus. So if we get another pandemic do you think we have learnt anything. More importantly have the governments of this world learnt anything. Stupid stupid question of course. Maybe, just maybe, they should try to lockdown all age care and those with infected tissue and leave the economy open i.e. don't burn 500 billion for nothing. Let it rip through the young generation no one will hardly go to hospital because they have all dosed up on Vit D ( don't let the WHO or the pharmaceutical companies know about this because they will get very upset) and hay presto virus gone in 3 months. Isn't that right Mr Sutton and Daniel Sun. Have you actually looked at the graphs you linked? Deaths quadrupled in the UK over the 21 day period, in line with the increase in cases. Make it easy on yourself and hit the 7 day moving average option... |
Originally Posted by currawong
(Post 10899163)
:confused:
Have you actually looked at the graphs you linked? Deaths quadrupled in the UK over the 21 day period, in line with the increase in cases. Make it easy on yourself and hit the 7 day moving average option... |
Originally Posted by Joker89
(Post 10899171)
really, to me the deaths curve and the cases curve look nothing like the first wave.
Early on 1 in 4 tests were positive in the UK. Only the sickest got tested. Both of which skewed their data badly. If more tests = more positives, UK should have peaked at the end of July. https://ourworldindata.org/coronavir...pickerSort=asc |
Regarding the UK I will just pick a date April 5 cases 5348 deaths 644 and October 5 cases 12594 deaths 19
That's 3 weeks into both waves. Also checkout world cases against deaths. Cases slope up, the deaths slope down. Interesting trend. Also found out President Trump while at Walter Reed Hospital was given Remdesivir, Regeneron, Dexamethasome Zinc, Vit D, Famotidine, Melatonin. That's 5 drugs and 2 minerals which are Zinc and D. Dr Sean Colony (yes James Bond) his main doc should be treating everyone like this. For this info U-tube Dr John Campbell update. Cheers. |
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