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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

DirectAnywhere 13th Feb 2021 06:56

Avalon is the obvious one. Long runway, lots of open space to place temporary accomodation.

Established water and electricity infrastructure. Close enough to major hospitals for those that may require that level of support and intervention.

WingNut60 13th Feb 2021 07:01


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 10989718)
Christmas has got ex cons whose visas have been cancelled, waiting to be deported. Christmas Island detention centre site of riot as detainees set fires - ABC News

The detention centre is a federal facility, not a state one.

Correct. And can probably (?) not be used as a quarantine facility while it is being used for immigration detainees.
Also, take a look at my previous post regarding runway length.

But what's your point with regard it being a federal facility and not state?

Sunfish 13th Feb 2021 08:09

latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.

dr dre 13th Feb 2021 08:39


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10989766)
latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.

Although it could be extended I was reading this in another forum, and it seemed that people were misinterpreting the State of Emergency order (which will always be made for a minimum 2 weeks) with the Lockdown order. Only 1 positive case today is good news.

wheels_down 13th Feb 2021 08:46


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10989766)
latest word is that the Victorian 5 day lockdown will be extended to 2 weeks.

I think that was pretty well cleared up today. That is an order drafted by a Legal that 14 days.

As he said. No surprises in the next 4 days. And we are back to last Thursday’s setup.

However one single surprise then you can bet 2 weeks.

Angle of Attack 13th Feb 2021 08:48

Quarantine centres historically not in remote locations, they were close but just outside of the cities. The only reason I say Howard Springs is gold standard is because the rooms are individual cabins with no stagnant corridors. They all have a veranda and items can be delivered safely as it’s outdoors. I don’t care where you build them, build them in the suburbs if you wish but individual Dongers are the way to go, there is almost no chance of aerosol transmission if protocols are followed. The fact is that almost all the epidemiology experts have been stating this pretty much since a year ago. You can’t trust State Governments, they quite frankly aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed, basically they couldn’t make it to Federal Government and went to the next best thing.

Double_Clutch 13th Feb 2021 11:44

What “Phase” will pilots fall into, regarding the vaccine?

SHVC 13th Feb 2021 20:09

Depends, could be 1B if they see pilots as 'critical and high risk workers' I would imagine cabin crew would fall in this category. If not that, definitely 2A I believe Pilots would be 'other critical and high risk workers'




RodH 13th Feb 2021 20:15

Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia . Would be easy to set up as they already have had training in locking people up as soon as they arrived in Australia, sure it was a while ago but I'm sure they could restart the locking up process and it's too far to swim to the mainland so there's no escape until the detainees are better.
I hope Scott and Dan read this as it will surely help them.

empacher48 13th Feb 2021 21:10


Originally Posted by RodH (Post 10990131)
Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia . Would be easy to set up as they already have had training in locking people up as soon as they arrived in Australia, sure it was a while ago but I'm sure they could restart the locking up process and it's too far to swim to the mainland so there's no escape until the detainees are better.
I hope Scott and Dan read this as it will surely help them.

​​​​​​

Stuff: Hundreds fly from MIQ in NZ to Australia

There already seems to be a group of islands a few thousand kilometres east of Australia that are providing Quarantine for Australians coming back home. It appears cheaper and easier than doing it in Australia.

At least the country doesn’t go into full-blown lock downs when there are breaches in the MIQ system..

dr dre 13th Feb 2021 21:21


Originally Posted by Double_Clutch (Post 10989882)
What “Phase” will pilots fall into, regarding the vaccine?

International crew classed as 1A. Domestic crew 1B. There should only be a few weeks difference between those two groups, so most active pilots should have access to the vaccines within the next few months.

SHVC 13th Feb 2021 21:45

International pilots are treated no different unless you can provide another reference to what the government website has. 1A has border force that’s as close to a pilot you will get, 1B earliest for aircrew no way they’re going ahead of health care and aged care workers. Pilots are not that important.

SRFred 13th Feb 2021 23:05


Originally Posted by RodH (Post 10990131)
Just a thought?
From memory there is an island about 500k south of Melbourne that started off as a penal colony a couple of hundred years ago so maybe that would be an ideal spot to quarantine everyone who arrives in Australia .

Not only that heaps of money has been spent in recent years restoring Port Arthur ready for "clients".

Lockhart 13th Feb 2021 23:30

In Vic, 1 case yesterday, 2 cases today, come Monday tomorrow is pretty much d-day regarding Wednesday announcement.
Is 1 or 2 per day enough to lift the lockdown or not. If lockdown continues and job keeper finishes that will be like dropping a nuke on Vic.
I remember lockdown 2, went for 2 weeks then extended to 6 weeks finished up being 4 months. I don't think Dan's got the guts
to do a three peat of this. Victorian citizens will just rebel.

Bug Smasher Smasher 13th Feb 2021 23:35


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10990179)
International pilots are treated no different unless you can provide another reference to what the government website has. 1A has border force that’s as close to a pilot you will get, 1B earliest for aircrew no way they’re going ahead of health care and aged care workers. Pilots are not that important.

I think you’ll find you’re wrong and dr dre is right.

dr dre 14th Feb 2021 00:09

The “border workers” 1A classification isn’t necessarily just ABF personnel, it’s all who have a role in international travel, like International airport workers with face to face contact with travellers (pilots I believe included in this, in addition to being “travellers” themselves).

For the 1B classification that includes “critical workers” such as people working in supply and distribution of essential goods and services which would encompass pilots.

jrfsp 14th Feb 2021 01:15

3 new cases in NZ, connected to airport catering staffer. Lets see if the bubble gets dropped again.

Global Aviator 14th Feb 2021 02:09

https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_...8E8o9FmSmpxCzU

And...... HS Q being ramped up

jrfsp 14th Feb 2021 03:56

US marines arriving into Darwin will be provided quarantine facilities at RAAF Darwin, and "The Marine force has rented a secure facility outside Darwin – understood to be Bladin Point, about 20km south of Darwin – for the majority of personnel to complete their quarantining". Source: The guardian.

So we can find suitable facilities for US marines, but for our own citizens, lets put them in hotels in the CBD....Shows where the Fed gov's priorities are...

If im not mistaken, the facilities at Bladin point will be the former 'immigration holding centre', essentially donga's, not unlike Howard Springs. EDIT. The bladin point village, former INPEX workers village, accommodation for up to 750 people!!

How many facilities are there like this around the country.....

C441 14th Feb 2021 06:37


So we can find suitable facilities for US marines, but for our own citizens, lets put them in hotels in the CBD....Shows where the Fed gov's priorities are...
I'm not sure that facilities suitable for a few hundred US Marines would necessarily be equally suitable for families, including children, returning from o/s.

brokenagain 14th Feb 2021 07:30


I'm not sure that facilities suitable for a few hundred US Marines would necessarily be equally suitable for families, including children, returning from o/s.
I’d love to see civvies being put up in Tin City on the RAAF base for 2 weeks. Scomo would hear their whinging all the way from Engadine.

Duck Pilot 14th Feb 2021 08:19

I’ve heard on a Melbourne talk back radio station the other day of potentially using cruise ships as quarantine facilities, together with Puckapunyal Army Base. Probably an effective means to prevent people from escaping!

Lockhart 14th Feb 2021 09:46


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10990238)
3 new cases in NZ, connected to airport catering staffer. Lets see if the bubble gets dropped again.

New Zealand is imposing a three-day lockdown in its most populous city beginning Sunday, after three new locally transmitted Covid-19 cases were reported on Saturday.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern announced the lockdown for Auckland, home to 1.5 million people, during a news conference on Sunday. The lockdown will end at 11:59 p.m. on Wednesday.


She defiantly has more intelligence than Dan by 2 days.

currawong 14th Feb 2021 11:51


At least the country doesn’t go into full-blown lock downs when there are breaches in the MIQ system.
Um, stage 4 for Auckland and stage 3 for the rest of the country as of about now.

Yes, the bubble is off.

Yes, you could quarantine in NZ then travel on to Australia within the bubble.

If you booked today, your slot would come up in.....June.

:rolleyes:

empacher48 14th Feb 2021 17:20


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10990463)
Um, stage 4 for Auckland and stage 3 for the rest of the country as of about now.

:rolleyes:

Try Level 3 for Auckland and 2 for the rest of the country. Level 4 cannot be put in place for individual provinces and is country wide only.

As in August, because the contact tracing team hasn’t figured out where they got it from, lock down to make sure it’s not being spread through the community without people knowing.

Unlike the community cases a few weeks ago, in November and October where the source can be traced back to MIQ, no alert levels were changed because contact tracers and genomic testing could identify a source.

If the contact tracing is good enough and you can quickly find the source and close contacts NZ does not change alert levels.

When there is no clear source, then yes alert levels change.

Compare NZ’s reaction to Victoria or WA, if NZ know where the case came from and close contacts are known (takes no longer than 24 hours for NZ contact tracers to identify close contacts, 48 hours for casual and casual+ contacts), so in the case of the Holiday Inn situation NZ would not have changed alert levels for that.

SHVC 14th Feb 2021 18:56

Does it matter, what ever lock down there is its a massive set back to recovery. NZ has just reaffirmed that you cant eliminate this virus as they have seen twice now.

empacher48 14th Feb 2021 20:16


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10990638)
Does it matter, what ever lock down there is its a massive set back to recovery. NZ has just reaffirmed that you cant eliminate this virus as they have seen twice now.

Elimination is not a one shot wonder and forget about it. It’s an acceptance that humans and human made processes do fail and having no tolerance for letting the virus rage rampant in society.

NZ has successfully eliminated the virus in its community 6 times now, twice using changes to alert levels and 4 times now using simple contact tracing without changing the alert levels. They have eliminated the virus twice as often without sweeping changes to society.

They have recorded 2,330 total cases and 25 deaths through a pandemic, while keeping a far more liberal border quarantine process than Australia.

SHVC 14th Feb 2021 21:11

Chill out bro. As you pointed out, NZ eliminated it 6 times so they have not eliminated it because it’s come back 6 times. Maybe they have just stopped waves of it like NSW. Point is you will never eliminate this virus even with the vaccine.

empacher48 14th Feb 2021 21:32


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 10990708)
Chill out bro. As you pointed out, NZ eliminated it 6 times so they have not eliminated it because it’s come back 6 times. Maybe they have just stopped waves of it like NSW. Point is you will never eliminate this virus even with the vaccine.

I am chill, however, NZ has eliminated it.

But the world will not eradicate it.

As the epidemiologists keep saying elimination is not a point in time, but a continual process of outbreaks, crushing them and moving on.

We can eliminate it as we have done with things like typhoid and to an extent measles. The diseases are still out there, won’t be going away in a hurry, but it does not run rampant and out of control. It is a very easy process, vaccine is one step, more effective treatments are the next step. Until these two methods are widespread, social methods of control are the only guaranteed way to continue elimination.

Australia has eliminated the virus, evidence of lockdowns going on in states and the zero tolerance attitude for rampant disease spread is elimination. Each state may use the social tools available at its disposal and vary between states how they are used, but all methods witnessed across all states of Australia are an elimination process.

The world has only eradicated smallpox and it took a very very long time and a multi-national response of elimination in each country.

It may appear to be semantics; elimination vs eradication but both have very different outcomes, although as individual countries work towards elimination, eventually we will reach eradication, if it’s possible.

neville_nobody 14th Feb 2021 22:04

We can't afford to eliminate it. It will bankrupt all airlines, tourism, cafes, restaurants etc. The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.

There will be 3rd world countries who simply will just have to live with it as they can't play the lockdown game as that will kill people through starvation and poverty

clark y 14th Feb 2021 22:15

I hope the vaccine works as advertised or the timeframe to a successful eradication may be too long and we will and up as one of those 3rd world countries.

Chris2303 14th Feb 2021 22:18


Originally Posted by clark y (Post 10990729)
I hope the vaccine works as advertised or the timeframe to a successful eradication may be too long and we will and up as one of those 3rd world countries.

Will end up as a third world country????

Lockhart 14th Feb 2021 22:42


Originally Posted by Duck Pilot (Post 10990354)
I’ve heard on a Melbourne talk back radio station the other day of potentially using cruise ships as quarantine facilities, together with Puckapunyal Army Base. Probably an effective means to prevent people from escaping!

Heard from the same radio station I think, that the Fox group that own Avalon want to set up the airport as a quarantine base with quarantine facilities
which they think will take 8-10 weeks. Lindsay being Dan's best mate is asking for a little bit of cash for this to go ahead.

clark y 14th Feb 2021 23:02

Chris2303, yeah I know but given time we'll lose our status of being "the only third world country where you can drink the water".

WingNut60 14th Feb 2021 23:03


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 10990727)
................... The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.

Sorry? I can't speak for Melbourne but what is your source for food wasteage in Perth?
Why would there be? Food going out of date in restaurant freezers over the five day lockdown?
I am sure there was some but doubt that it was measureable.

601 14th Feb 2021 23:25


The amount of food being wasted by the Perth and Melbourne lockdowns alone is disgraceful, both on a financial and ethical point of view.
I am sure that the elderly would rather some food being buried that they being the centre of the burial.

Hasherucf 15th Feb 2021 01:21

I can't help to think that Qantas will have to lay off or put 1000's of staff on standdown at the end of Jobkeeper. Virgin will finish 3000 jobs at the end of March.

I'm sure Scomo and Joyce have already had this conversation. Not seen any reporting about this topic. Unless Scomo is going to pull a rabbit out of the hat by the end of March it's gonna be a bloodbath.

neville_nobody 15th Feb 2021 01:25


Sorry? I can't speak for Melbourne but what is your source for food wasteage in Perth?
Why would there be? Food going out of date in restaurant freezers over the five day lockdown?
I am sure there was some but doubt that it was measureable.
In the past weeks there has been several newspaper articles from restaurateurs in both Perth and Melbourne and a high profile seafood distributor who are all destroying fresh food that can't be sold due to snap lock downs by governments.
The seafood distributor claimed it was over a million dollars worth of produce. You can't hold seafood for over a week in your fridges.

If this continues as is then it's only the beginning. There will be bankruptcies in hospitality and tourism and if the State Governments continue with the uncertainty as to what is going on, the airlines will follow as there is no demand for travel as the population has no idea if they will be allowed to leave their home. A lock down over Easter would probably be the worst possible scenario for airlines as they are claiming that travel is looking good at that time. If all that gets shut down then it could be the beginning of the end for aviation.

wheels_down 15th Feb 2021 01:25

I’m not overly familiar with the respective EBAs and the technical terms surrounding them, but can’t say Virgin move staff from JobKeeper to Unpaid leave?

Virgin is bare bones as it is I don’t really see the point in laying off Domestic NG crews which is the bulk of team members.

Scooter Rassmussin 15th Feb 2021 02:35

If you think things are bad now , wait till winter , especially in the south , it will spread like wildfire and then our jobs will evaporate.
The move away from jobkeeper means nothing to the companies, sure they were able to milk a little for themselves but having the staff lose jobkeeper is no skin off the companies nose .


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