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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Chronic Snoozer 1st Feb 2021 03:43


Ms Berejiklian said health authorities were acting “quickly and swiftly” to screen all people who had arrived in NSW from WA since January 25, but maintained the need for a proportionate response. (That’s the term we’re looking for!)

“NSW has a standing policy of keeping our borders open, and that’s what we’ll continue to do.“Ms Berejiklian said authorities were still only aware of the single case in WA and were acting accordingly.

“Please judge NSW on our record of how we manage things here. It’s not for me to suggest what other premiers should do. I leave that up to them,” she said.
“McGowan serves, down 0-5, but Berejiklian absolutely smokes the return down the line. 0-40.”

Gladys’ Border Control

jrfsp 1st Feb 2021 04:34

The comment on quarantine was the most interesting:
"In relation to Mr Dutton I want to make this point. He is the Minister for Home Affairs. They have the responsibility for quarantine under the Constitution. But he does not want to do that. So therefore, it has fallen to the states to perform the role that Mr Dutton should be performing under the Constitution. So he should not be criticising when we are doing the task he should be performing. Under the Constitution, quarantine, it is the responsibility of the Commonwealth -- section 15.
[The federal government has access to] Defence bases, Christmas Island, sometimes very remote places and they are not doing it and refused to do it so therefore the state is doing it so I urge Mr Dutton not to be a critic."

currawong 1st Feb 2021 04:39


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10980295)
No of course not and you know it. Did you notice my feelings were directed and limited to “those individuals” who by the way on every occasion did not appear “fringe” in any way. From the times we understood the words, the abuse was about going back east, not that COVID is a myth.

I chose not to direct any feelings of karma towards the two policemen on a compliance check who berated the sleeping crew for not answering their doors at lunchtime in a timely manner when the crew had arrived at dawn and were leaving that evening. Nor any other people involved in other “interesting” WA COVID experiences too numerous to list.

Credit where it is due compressor stall, your opinion is based on your own personal experience.

I cannot fault you on that.

Your position is a giant leap ahead of many, who appear to be getting played by elements of the media.

Those that would orchestrate conflict for the sake of selling newspapers or clicks.


Keg 1st Feb 2021 05:01

The very first ‘national cabinet’ made the decision that the states would handle the quarantine in the respective states. They had the capability which the federal government lacked at the scale required. The hospitals, the coppers, the contracts for security people, the processes, are all things that states do on a regular basis but the feds do not do across the nation.

So its a bit rich that having signed on to do this- thus ensuring the jobs go mostly to who the state Premiers wanted them to go to- that they now try and disown it when all of a sudden they’ve decided it’s too hard and they need to blame someone for locking down their state when they shouldn’t.

Dre, let me be very specific. Precisely what ‘remote location’ are you proposing for these quarantine facilities? 1A Please has already spoken of some of the logistic issues relating to the numbers of beds required so exactly where are you putting this new town that you want to knock up in 10 days or so?

Sure the Chinese cobbled together some shipping containers and called it a ‘hospital’ but I’m not sure that’s the sort of thing we should be considering when you’re going to lock people inside it for 14 days in the middle of nowhere during an Australia summer. Then again, I’m not sure the Australian people would be prepared to agree to the Chinese way of doing things when it comes to things like the environment, WHS, industrial relations, working hours, pay and conditions, etc.

dr dre 1st Feb 2021 05:15

Keg, you seem to be good at poking holes in proposed solutions but don’t seem to willing to put up too many of your own. Even in your beloved NSW there have been lockdowns and restrictions on multiple occasions as a result of quarantine hotel breakouts (or in NSW’s case ignoring of government granted home quarantine).

A lot of prominent epidemiologists and leaders in Australia are calling for remote quarantine. Qld is investigating it. Have you a better idea? Should we quarantine hotel workers to the same hotel and pay them handsomely?

Unless we’re prepared to do this until a critical level of vaccination is reached? Maybe the Feds have run the numbers and have said it’s not worth it as vaccination will be coming quicker than originally proposed?

Clare Prop 1st Feb 2021 05:24

We need to stop international arrivals altogether until there is a secure quarantine facility, preferably run by the Feds, for ALL arrivals to go to, a long way from capital cities. Time to stop propping up multi national hotel chains and face reality They are not designed as quarantine facilities and clearly not fit for that purpose.

When I was there late last year Christmas Is facility was full of ex-con non citizens who had been moved there from Northam and will remain there until their countries of citizenship agree to take them back. Rottnest Island has already been used as a quarantine facility when we had all the cruise ships arriving. Would be sad to have it shut off to the rest of us again but I think this will be the only way as a temporary fix until a purpose built federal run remote facility is available.

As for those of you who harbour such hatred towards us Sandgropers..why do you care if the borders are controlled if you hate this part of the country so much? Maybe we don't want that kind of spite and negativity here. Jealous that we have a budget in surplus maybe? McGowan is our elected leader, whatever you may think of him he is always consistant.

SOPS 1st Feb 2021 05:32

I agree Clare. All International arrivals have to stop until they can be placed a long way from the city.

1A_Please 1st Feb 2021 05:42


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 10980765)
I agree Clare. All International arrivals have to stop until they can be placed a long way from the city.

The politics of doing this is very difficult so it won't happen. As I explained upthread, there is no likelihood of the remote capacity required to replace hotel quarantine will be available in the medium term. .

The whole purpose of track and trace is the ability to jump on any potential escapes. NSW showed it is possible and Qld also managed. Victoria was hopeless back in July but has spent significantly in duplicating NSW's systems since so hopefully is now under control. Even now, it looks like WA probably doesn't have an issue apart from a trigger-happy premier.

dr dre 1st Feb 2021 06:05


Originally Posted by 1A_Please (Post 10980768)
The whole purpose of track and trace is the ability to jump on any potential escapes. NSW showed it is possible and Qld also managed. Victoria was hopeless back in July but has spent significantly in duplicating NSW's systems since so hopefully is now under control. Even now, it looks like WA probably doesn't have an issue apart from a trigger-happy premier.

You do realise all those outbreaks in all those states (plus SA) triggered various border restrictions and lockdowns? All of which affect harm domestic air travel? So for an airline employee the current track and trace for quarantine outbreak system is not working to allow confidence for travel bookings therefore from that point of view it needs to be changed.

601 1st Feb 2021 06:11


about 12 months to get suitable accomodation available
Remember this company
They built an international airport in 18 months.
Already has internation flight operating there.
purpose-built quarantine facility

1A_Please 1st Feb 2021 06:16


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980772)
You do realise all those outbreaks in all those states (plus SA) triggered various border restrictions and lockdowns? All of which affect harm domestic air travel? So for an airline employee the current track and trace for quarantine outbreak system is not working to allow confidence for travel bookings therefore from that point of view it needs to be changed.

Yes, but those closedowns were because of trigger-happy premiers not because there was a significant outbreak. The only potential outbreak since Victoria's troubles was NSW and they managed it well and it never got away from them. The only reason there was border closures in that case was because the premiers of Vic, SA, WA and Qld are bedwetters who don't trust their own systems and more interested in their approval ratings than their states' economies. Until we get past closing down as a first resort rather than last, air travel will continue to suffer.

dr dre 1st Feb 2021 06:37

Well that's not going to happen. It's pretty clear by now what the response will be to a hotel outbreak. The solution is to stop the hotel outbreaks from occurring in crowded cities in the first place.


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10980775)
Remember this company
They built an international airport in 18 months.
Already has internation flight operating there.
purpose-built quarantine facility

Yep that type of facility at Wellcamp is what we need to move towards.

Green.Dot 1st Feb 2021 06:55

I’m kind of with Dre on this one. Yes logistically and financially it is a BIG undertaking. But throw enough money and resources at something and pay the right people enough $$$ to do fly in, fly out work and it CAN be done.

Given the number of similar hotel “scare” events we have had in a small number of months I suspect the $ invested would soon be recouped (vaccine or no vaccine), but this is purely speculation, like most of our thoughts.





601 1st Feb 2021 07:56


Well that's not going to happen. It's pretty clear by now what the response will be to a hotel outbreak. The solution is to stop the hotel outbreaks from occurring in crowded cities in the first place.
We appear to have had three outbreaks from HQ of the more contagious strain, one in Brisbane, one in Perth and one in NZ.
The Perth one is too soon for a determination of how the breach occurred.
The method of the breach in Brisbane has not been released or they cannot determine how it happened and we are being mushrooms.
I have not seen any information as to how the NZ breach occurred..

Before any more increase in the numbers in HQ is made, we need to determine how these breached occurred and the changes made to prevent such breaches.


currawong 1st Feb 2021 08:10

Regardless of where quarantine is, it is imperative that the staff quarantine as well.

Simple protocol that has somehow been overlooked from our bank of corporate knowledge this time around.

FIFO quarantine staff?

Single escapes will become plane loads of escapes.

No point in repeating and amplifying our current failures in a different location.

WingNut60 1st Feb 2021 08:18


Originally Posted by 601 (Post 10980804)
Before any more increase in the numbers in HQ is made, we need to determine how these breached occurred and the changes made to prevent such breaches.

Yes. I suspect that the lack of detail being made public about these events is as much because of the potential embarrassment to those controlling as it is embarrassment to those being controlled.

Green.Dot 1st Feb 2021 08:20


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10980807)
Regardless of where quarantine is, it is imperative that the staff quarantine as well.
.

Yeah agreed, I should have been clearer, I was implying 14 day quarantine for staff after their 2 week shift etc. 1 month on, 1 month off, you will get no shortage of staff paid 200k. It’s small bikkies in the grand scheme of things.

Foxxster 1st Feb 2021 09:26


Originally Posted by Green.Dot (Post 10980812)
Yeah agreed, I should have been clearer, I was implying 14 day quarantine for staff after their 2 week shift etc. 1 month on, 1 month off, you will get no shortage of staff paid 200k. It’s small bikkies in the grand scheme of things.

i imagine then that not only would the inbound passengers have to be confined to their Individual rooms for the duration of their quarantine but so would the staff guarding them, cleaning etc.

That is once they return to their own quarters. After all if one of them becomes infected, they would then spread it to the rest of the guards if they are all living in their own compound and allowed to eat together and otherwise socialise.

But then who guards them?

compressor stall 1st Feb 2021 09:37


Originally Posted by Foxxster (Post 10980850)

But then who guards them?

Easy: You have another set of guards to guard the guards at the end of their shifts and during their 2 week isolation at the end of their rotation. You will get away with a few less guards though per shift. Then you need another set of guards to guard the guards guarding the guards. And so on. Then at the end of the conga line of duty guards, you have, as W.E. Bowman of Rumdoodle fame described, a small boy guarding himself.

Keg 1st Feb 2021 12:07


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980762)
Even in your beloved NSW there have been lockdowns and restrictions on multiple occasions as a result of quarantine hotel breakouts (or in NSW’s case ignoring of government granted home quarantine).

What state are you in? Certainly not NSW! There has been one lockdown since May last year. It was the northern beaches on December 20 when they had 30 cases in a day. It was one region in a city of 6 million. Other than that there has been social distancing and mandated mask wearing in shops- the latter only for about a month.

All in all, life is pretty normal for these times and certainly shouldn’t be classed as ‘lockdowns or restrictions on multiple occasions’.


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980762)
A lot of prominent epidemiologists and leaders in Australia are calling for remote quarantine.

By definition epidemiologists are not experts in logistics. Their purview also doesn’t take into account the other myriad costs of their advice. It is for politicians to take their advice, weigh it up with the various costs and plans in place and make a decision. So far our politicians have shown to be mostly pretty woeful with lots of knee jerk panic and very little leadership. Only have to listen McGowan press conference to see that in action.


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10980762)
Should we quarantine hotel workers to the same hotel and pay them handsomely?

Perhaps but I don’t have a good handle on the numbers of people they’re using at each hotel, how they’re rostered, what the testing regime is like, how they go about cleaning, what the risk profile is for individual workers, etc. Perhaps I’ll leave that one to the experts.

I do know that building suitable accommodation for quarantining people in Learmonth is going to take a long time, cost a lot of money, decrease the risk to the cities somewhat (yay!), create significant hardship on individual workers, create some hardship on towns, stretch regional infrastructure to the limit, etc.

I do laugh at the isolations requirements forced on crew returning from Covid ‘hotspots’ like Narita, Singapore, Shanghai and Hong Kong given the precautions crew are taking whilst there but in the mean time the security bloke working directly with infected people is allowed to roam around the country side and WA hadn’t even instituted daily testing despite agreeing 2 1/2 weeks earlier that they’d get onto that.

plainmaker 2nd Feb 2021 03:11

I note with some interest some of the proposals being promulgated here. The use of mining villages would be a nightmare. The purpose of quarantine is to isolate the infected person from the community, AND ALSO from every other person in the same facility. Anyone who has worked FIFO at a mining compound will know just how claustrophobic Dongas are, and would be quite unsuitable for isolation purposes.

Think facilities that (a) offer a modicum of comfort (you are going to spend 14 days cooped up); (b) have a series of rooms that can isolate persons from one another (even floors) and (c0 offer the logistics of rapid medical intervention if needed plus food and ancillary support. So the Hotel property close to to the entry point seems the most logical option (unless you utilise all the unoccupied prison cells - dooh! there are few of those and even then most 'inmates' are not in lockdown 24/7.

The mismanagement of quarantine has been about the human factors - minimum wage individuals working 'security'. Perhaps an ADF/Borderforce management would be the better option.

Those who propose regional / remote locations (including for crew) - be careful what you wish for.

jrfsp 2nd Feb 2021 03:24

You do realise that Howard Springs is essentially dongas?

PoppaJo 2nd Feb 2021 03:42

I recall Qatar and Emirates saying they are not coming here if inbound arrivals are heading to the bush. NSW Government also had issues working with the International Airlines also saying, it’s all too hard, we are not coming. And that was just sorting out hotel arrangements, let alone other extreme proposals.

Can’t cut off the freight corridors, the numbers some are pulling in are huge. Outbound is also significant for some at the moment.

Hundreds of flight crews are still overnighting in the major capitals daily. The risk is still alive.

dr dre 2nd Feb 2021 03:53


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 10981375)
I recall Qatar and Emirates saying they are not coming here if inbound arrivals are heading to the bush.

Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap, increase Australian pilot employment and gain some leverage for more sensible crew quarantine arrangements.

neville_nobody 2nd Feb 2021 04:15


Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap, increase Australian pilot employment and gain some leverage for more sensible crew quarantine arrangements.

Problem will be additional to the expense is you are then putting many more Cabin Crew and to a lesser extent Pilots, at risk of Covid. Anyone who does the charter will then be quarantined for two weeks.

However if the state governments of Australia want to play the zero Covid game then this is what it will cost. Maybe they can starting footing the bill for their policies this time around.

Global Aviator 2nd Feb 2021 04:18

It is pretty much what QF are doing with the repat charters to Darwin is it not? Problem is they are few and far between.

I read the last flight had 144 pax, previously 172 pax?

The limit is Howard Springs not having capacity. It is currently at 600? Looking to go to 850? It is a 3000 bed facility so why not ramp up staff and logistics and use it? It’s there, it’s built. There are also other ex worker camps around the country that could be utilised. Get the inbound charters to use the facilities.

Keep the required airlines coming with a handful of pax, cargo and outbound options.

The above immediately reduces the amount of pax requiring capital city quarantine, thus in less numbers it would be less risk?

QF, JQ and Virgin would love the 1000+ people a week coming out of quarantine and needing to get a domestic flight south.

In a situation like the above everyone is a winner.

jrfsp 2nd Feb 2021 04:27

While its still early in the piece, it seems WA Gov have done a good job of standing up testing capacity and contact tracing, contrary to all the naysayer's posts

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 2nd Feb 2021 04:44

There is no way that the airlines bringing people back home - those being almost entirely foreign airlines (because Aussie ones (and there's really only one) will not do it because there is no money in it) - will fly directly to a remote point in the GAFA with a minuscule capped pax load if there is nothing there for them to take out again ie full pax load or freight. That's all that's keeping them doing it out the capital cities now.

Great opportunity for Australian airlines with knowledge and experience of remote aerodrome operations to fill the gap
Which Australian airlines who also have the ability to operate long haul international would they be? As I said, we now only have one airline capable of international operations. The idea that the Aus Govt will charter innumerable QF flights (at great QF demanded expense) to cherrypicked destinations overseas at the frequency the foreign carriers are currently flying is ludicrous.

KRviator 2nd Feb 2021 05:12


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10981392)
While its still early in the piece, it seems WA Gov have done a good job of standing up testing capacity and contact tracing, contrary to all the naysayer's posts


A total of 3,171 coronavirus tests were conducted in WA yesterday, compared to the daily average of about 500, after a hotel security guard working at the Four Points by Sheraton Perth tested positive to coronavirus.Source
3,171 tests in 24 hours and they're skiting about that? :rolleyes: When they can get above 10,000 tests a day people might sit up and take notice, but until then, the whole "Look how good we've done!" commentary from McGoose & his lackeys is nauseating. NSW is still pushing over 10,000 tests a day without the threat of an outbreak. And at the height of the latest NSW outbreak they were a bees d!ck from cracking 70,000 tests in a day.

3,000 tests a day - when you've active community transmission and are concerned about it really getting out in the community? Pi$$-weak if you ask me.


StudentInDebt 2nd Feb 2021 05:19


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10981406)
3,171 tests in 24 hours and they're skiting about that? :rolleyes: When they can get above 10,000 tests a day people might sit up and take notice, but until then, the whole "Look how good we've done!" commentary from McGoose & his lackeys is nauseating. NSW is still pushing over 10,000 tests a day without the threat of an outbreak. And at the height of the latest NSW outbreak they were a bees d!ck from cracking 70,000 tests in a day.

3,000 tests a day - when you've active community transmission and are concerned about it really getting out in the community? Pi$$-weak if you ask me.

There were c16,500 tests conducted yesterday, are you sitting up yet?

Ragnor 2nd Feb 2021 05:22

McClown said 15,000 test were conducted in the last 24hrs, and in his arrogance compared it to Sydney’s Avalon saying theirs is higher testing rate per capita. This guy is a real clown.

I wouldn’t trust this clown either, he waited 11hrs to tell gov there was a case which is against covid protocol. I will cover up any further positives.

Ladloy 2nd Feb 2021 07:01


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10981412)
McClown said 15,000 test were conducted in the last 24hrs, and in his arrogance compared it to Sydney’s Avalon saying theirs is higher testing rate per capita. This guy is a real clown.

I wouldn’t trust this clown either, he waited 11hrs to tell gov there was a case which is against covid protocol. I will cover up any further positives.

The response of the government and public has been applauded and praised. The only criticism should be the worker having a second job.

compressor stall 2nd Feb 2021 07:11


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 10981444)
The response of the government abd public has been applauded and praised. The only criticism should be the worker having a second job.

Que? Why hang it on the worker? He was permitted to have a second job (admittedly not for much longer). And praise the Government? What?? The WA Government should be copping a barrage for not introducing best practices from other states in a timely manner, although admittedly in this case they are very lucky the worker had apparently not worked the second uber driver job.

If I was running the inquiry, I'd be questioning the disparity between the extensive PPE worn by the AUSMAT team and others in the lobby vs the minimal level of PPE issued to the security guards in the less ventilated confines of the corridors.

Ladloy 2nd Feb 2021 07:59


Originally Posted by compressor stall (Post 10981450)
Que? Why hang it on the worker? He was permitted to have a second job (admittedly not for much longer). And praise the Government? What?? The WA Government should be copping a barrage for not introducing best practices from other states in a timely manner, although admittedly in this case they are very lucky the worker had apparently not worked the second uber driver job.

If I was running the inquiry, I'd be questioning the disparity between the extensive PPE worn by the AUSMAT team and others in the lobby vs the minimal level of PPE issued to the security guards in the less ventilated confines of the corridors.

Sorry I'll rephrase, allowing the worker to have a second job. In terms of copping a barrage, didn't see Gladys cop one for the Northern Beaches

Icarus2001 2nd Feb 2021 08:39

Whether the worker had a second job...... mmmmm..... even if that was not the case, soon by regulation, then they can still go drinking, eating, socialising etc which entails contacting lots of people. Alternatively their second job may involve less contact with other people by its very nature, after hours console operator at a no service station for example.
The guy had a second job and was allowed to, not his fault.

Ragnor 2nd Feb 2021 09:19

Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

NumptyAussie 2nd Feb 2021 11:19


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10981527)
Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

Possibly Gladys is returning the favour?

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...W-and-QLD.aspx

dr dre 2nd Feb 2021 11:33


Originally Posted by NumptyAussie (Post 10981615)
Possibly Gladys is returning the favour?

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...W-and-QLD.aspx

Too true Numpty, despite the bovine excrement that has been dished out between states both in and out of this forum, when chips are down we help each other out. Even with the pandemic teams of nurses were sent from WA to assist Victoria at the height of their outbreak.

jrfsp 2nd Feb 2021 11:42


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10981527)
Let’s see if McIdiot can publicly thank Gladys for the use our water bombers, she was kind to send one over today.

Just when i thought the thread couldnt get any lower....I thought all Australians knew that bushfires are off limits for making making political jokes / jibes.

Thankfully the fire authorities across the country (and internationally) have a long history of co-operation and helping each other. Also the air firefighting fleet is managed by the NAFC and receives funding support from the Australian Government as well as State and Territory Governments. (But yes the 737 is directly purchased by NSW and is available for loan by other states
https://nafc.org.au/

SOPS 3rd Feb 2021 08:58

Now there is a possible leak in a hotel in Victoria. These international arrivals are definitely the weak link. I don’t have the answer.. but the hotel system is causing problems.


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