Well, it’s complicated. In the 1933 attempt (spurred by economic discontent at the time) they went to petition the British parliament, which they believed had sovereignty at the time. The British said that the 1931 Statue of Westminster prevented them from interfering in Australian Federal matters. The movement died out.

Lang Hancock started another attempt in the 70’s during the first Iron Ore boom. It got some traction in the press and they fielded some politcial candidates but that died out within time, as this “attempt” will too.

There’s no mention in the Constitution about leaving the Federation, I assume barring a civil war Federal Parliament would have to grant assent, which they won’t.

I reckon if I posed that question in any state - “Should NSW/Vic/whoever secede if the residents of this state will benefit economically?” the results would be a clear Yes too. It doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

This thread having devolved into secession talk anyway is pointless, even if WA or any state did secede I doubt it would have a major effect on the amount of people travelling between cities once the pandemic is over, which therefore wouldn’t have too much of an effect on airline jobs, which is what this thread should be about anyway.

Vic has mostly opened up, that’s a good start. Hopefully Queen P announces next Friday the same. SA won’t open until Feb but at least they have a date

yeah good start, but who has a clue to figuring out the traffic light system.

northern beaches LGA with 150+ cases since mid December can come in, but Canada Bay LGA with 0 cases since October can’t...

:ugh:

Canada bay can go to Vic unrestricted. It’s just one LGA that can’t go. But you’re correct this traffic light system who can make sense of it.

Ok, I must of missed that update today

Good summary - but remember that would also involve a CASA and a CASWA, and international relations between them.

WA had/has a policy of dividing the state into sections that get travel restrictions when/if they get community COVID cases.

If they simply applied that to other states and territories, that would be a good start.

SA, QLD, VIC, NT & NSW could be broken up into many zones and only the zone/s (that everyone knows in advance) get shut down if a cases evolve.

It is already applied to NSW, in the form of LGA at the current minute Cumberland is the only LGA not allowed to enter Victoria. Why that is I have no idea very random.

Qld, the NT and, IIRC SA also had LGA-Specific restrictions on entry vs locking out the whole state, WA being the holdout with their typical "EVERYONE in NSW is a risk to us" attitude.

Yet McGoose wants Gladys to "go with the majority and eliminate the virus...." but it seems to me I can travel almost anywhere in the country from my country-NSW LGA, except WA.

When will QLD make a decision are they wanting 28 days still?! SA earliest opening to Sydney is February 2nd for 14 days.

Looks about Monday 15th for Sydney/Queensland to open, IF things stay at zero.

So if Sydney pickup another case this coming week its basically game over until March 1.

Rex looking doubtful. Dan will follow his colleague up north. The question is how long will it last also once the gates are open. 30 days seems a good figure to put cash on.

Why even bother trying to travel domestically this year. Confidence had most certainly dropped off in the last 30 days, well from the conversations I’ve picked up.

Interesting is WA have on their web page requirements for very low, low and medium risk states.

They also state what very low and low is as per community COVID 19 numbers - BUT THEY have not followed their own public info! On this QLD should only have risen to low, from very low as only 2 cases were in the community in last rolling 14 - they state up to 5 cases of rolling 14 days is a low category risk state or territory.

The higher classification came from the outbreak being of the B117 mutation which has a higher risk of transmissibility, which is why all states applied restrictions on Queensland straight away. Normal protocols and classifications had to be altered to take into account the higher risk of exponential growth outpacing contact tracing ability, it’s a testament to the hotel worker who was infected that they limited their contact whilst working in a high risk job.

If you do a little bit of looking you’ll see there’s hard science behind these decisions, it isn’t all a conspiracy.

Thats interesting, conversations I’ve had with travelers and what I have seen indicates the opposite. Ppl just want to be able to move around see their family, holiday and do business. It will come back just like November. But, mostly likely closing again in April because of one case.

Also worth pointing out it was QLD that asked for all states to declare BNE as a hotspot... which then triggered the border restrictions.

They have had about 14 days to amend the website! not very hard.

Very little science - distance and population density are a key factor - and truth is there was no real community transmittions of that strain even though the ground zero case used public transport. The only community case was her partner.

Got some science for that 70% more contagious variant or just luck?

Actual fact in Australia by science is it is less transmittable here, or am I missing the science on that?

Up to 5 days infectious in the community and all.

The numbers and rates of this virus are weird across the World but the stats within countries are pretty consistent after around 6 months after the first cases/second waves. They can be both good and bad and many countries (I have visited or lived) are pretty honest on such things. But the stats are way off what I expected.

Could have used a mask, could have been in an empty part of the train, could have coughed/sneezed into the elbow, could have not been shedding at that time.....

Lineage-specific growth of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 during the English national lockdown

Covid-19: New variant raises R number by up to 0.7

Single clusters are rarely good to form conclusions from. We know that if strain B1.1.7 gets into the community it does spread more than previous dominant strains. This is seen in nations which have had large outbreak of it.

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.

Try Botswana almost same number of cases as Australia - far fewer deaths and 1 10th the population.

New mutation to date is nothing outside both UK and South Africa (note Botswana is next door to south African strain).

If you think both the South African and UK variants are not in Botswana - I quote the Castle.

All the links and stuff still mean nothing look at Sweden originally the great model - then not. then we are still not sure (but certainly not a great model) they may end up not too bad.

What does seem to work (in affected state) is a hard fast large lock down - in Australia. That has worked in a number of states with the outbreaks. TAS, QLD and SA spring to mind.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/...ay-22-january/

200 odd in ICU, actually looks like it’s under control. As is Sweden

Totally under control, that’s barely anyone in the ICU, I’m sure there’s heaps more space left.......

‘Urgent need of volunteers’ — Irish hospitals on the brink with just 26 ICU beds left in entire country

They’re totally under control as well man, totally......

Covid-19 forces Swedish hospitals to delay 'necessary surgery' - Every one of the country's 21 regional healthcare authorities reported being in a "strained" or "very strained" situation, with the regions of Jönköping and Uppsala telling SR that they were having to postpone urgent operations on cancer or heart patients

But hey, just the flu right......

200 out of 4 million people, what a disaster, median age of death 82

your link for Sweden is 2 weeks old, check the daily infection and death rates for the last few days.

you mention Sweden a lot yet you probably don’t know anyone living there or ever lived there yourself.

The only impact to normal people lives is the local
swimming pool and ice rink is closed. Kids still attending primary school. Grand parents not forbidden to visit their loved ones. And life goes on without the political bull crap Australia dishes out on a daily basis.

the fact is people get sick from a range of things, unfortunately some of these people die at an earlier age than is desirable. Can’t ever change that. You sprout a lot of garbage of health systems coming close to collapse. Where is the evidence of it actually happening. More people died in December 1993 in Sweden than April 2020. Also, there is basically zero flu now so look at excess mortality before preaching doomsday predictions.

California. Paramedics told not to transport patients to hospital who have a grim outlook, and I’m not just talking about Covid patients. Paramedics told to limit the use of oxygen, due to low supply.

I can’t be arsed finding links to the stories that proves it, but they’d be very easy to find.

Seems to be a bit of a scaremongering by the news networks. This from NPR,

Well, actually, it is best practice to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest in the field where they are found. That is our normal protocol in LA County. So the shift towards not transporting patients who do not have restoration of pulse is a relatively small change. These patients have very limited chance of survival. And so these are the patients that we're asking the paramedics to call in to our base hospitals, discuss with the base physician and determine if further resuscitation is futile and therefore terminate resuscitation on scene. We are continuing to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest, and we continue to transport all patients in whom our paramedics are able to resuscitate in the field
Another gem from the same article,

And I say that because I see how people are still congregating in groups and making decisions to have family gatherings or New Year's parties. And these decisions are what continues to impact our health care system.

So the LA ambulance system is being overwhelmed by people who probably seem not to take advice seriously.

Numbers in ireland are down from 8000 a day to around 2000 with generally 60+ deaths per day.
Their govt are saying no relief from restrictions till at least end of feb however it seems you can still go for an overseas holiday with the govt response being,you shouldnt go!
Puzzles me somewhat when you read that & also only a requirement to have a test within 72hrs of returning.

There’s a ban there on gatherings above 8, 10 sqm per person in public areas, ban on non essential entry from outside EU, total ban on UK and Denmark, non essential public buildings closed til Feb. Mask recommendations issued for the first time in December. Plus a lot of nursing homes have chosen to close to visitors so grand parents visits are limited. And High schools switched to remote learning. Life certainly isn’t back to normal there.

You don’t think “necessary and urgent” heart and cancer surgery being delayed is a problem?

They had their deadliest November since 1918. Excess mortality was clearly above average in 2020, as was the same in every European country.

Sweden’s strategy has given them a death rate 10 times higher than their Nordic brethren in Norway and Finland and 3 times higher than Denmark.

But the most telling thing is that even the King of Sweden admitted their strategy has been a failure. Their Prime Minister has admitted it was a failure. Even their Chief Epidemiologist back-pedalled. You can’t try to rehabilitate what they’ve done now if they themselves have admitted it was a mistake.

That’s because the nation was been in a lockdown since the end of last month. Tough measures are working, but the pandemic is still a serious issue if you fail to do anything.

The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.

It's a bit hot in Broome at this time of year but our south coast regions are always good ................if you can get a booking!
Good luck with that.
Plus, of course, we don't know which "Denmark" you are supposed to be in.

Why would anyone risk booking anything interstate? Someone only has to sneeze in Cobar and McGowan is likely to reinstate the hard border. I'm flabbergasted Anna-Stayaway "only" implemented a hotspot-based approach with the Avalon & Berala outbreaks. I mean, who would have thought someone at Dubbo would have less risk of bringing the Pestilence to Queensland than someone from Drummoyne? Everyone knows WA is the leader here, and the NT, Victoria, SA, Queensland and even Tasmania are all wrong with their health advice.

Nope, if I want a holiday, it'll be somewhere relatively local.

Us lepers in Melbourne from July to Oct last year had wonderful local holidays.
It was called going to the supermarket and strolling the magnificent scenery of food items in
their natural habitat called shelves.

Gotta keep the humour alive!!!

People will travel.

The only difference is having a get out quick contingency plan!

Ppl will travel and this mornings announcement will give the traveling public confidents now.

The next issue is, how will the state premiers react when there is a covid case July when most of the population is vaccinated.

NZ just went two months now they have that nasty strain even after a negative result this is here for the long term McGoose and Queen P need to accept that.

<sarcasm> Point of order, good sir. They are the Premier's of their states! They don't have to "accept" anything! The buck stops with them, remember! </sarcasm>

On a serious note though, all that means is they will likely mandate 4 weeks quarantine for interstate travelers, instead of 2 weeks. At the travelers expense remember.

After all, if you can afford to travel with the economy the way it is, you can afford to spend $8,000 in "hotel" quarantine costs! Unless you're a sportsman, actor, own a newspaper or are the BFF of a politician, in which case, you can quarantine wherever you damn well please....

dr dre,

Are you by any chance an actual Doctor? You seem to have some very strong opinions on this topic. And you also seem to fail to empathise with Pilots who are advocating a loosening of State border restrictions in Australia, in the faint hope more of us will get back to work.

You don’t need to be a doctor to not empathise with the craven, self-serving cries to open borders and damn the torpedos. The pilots here advocating free travel seem to discount the public not actually wanting to fly to a hot spot. Even the borders that are open currently are not seeing paying loads on many of the few flights. Additionally, readers here have to wade through some real drivel and occasional anti-boomer screed which does not do your case any good.

Pax numbers certainly aren’t matching the hype that the airlines have been talking up even now that travel is unrestricted between many states.

School holidays are almost over- Feb and March will no doubt be underwhelming. Hopefully Easter & next school holidays will bring more joy, but this will all be subject to how many more knee jerks we see from leaders between now and then.

Likewise, you don't need to be a pilot to understand the current "open-closed-open-partially closed (for now, we'll see tomorrow morning, maybe) - nope, still open for now" régime of the various *cough* leaders *cough* does nothing whatsoever to build confidence in the ability of Australian's to feel safe travelling interstate, without either being screwed over on arrival (WA) or on their return (Victoria/Qld). Look at that idiot Victorian Police Minister (or whatever he was) that said "I see no problem whatsoever driving non-stop from the Queensland Border tothe Victorian Border, if you want to get home" (slightly paraphrased, but you get the idea).

Why on earth would you book a holiday interstate if there's the slightest chance you could be up for 14 days quarantine on your return, assuming you actually made it to your holiday destination in the first place, or weren't forced to quarantine there?

As for the anti-boomer sentiment, I don't subscribe to it much, but it is undeniable that the major beneficiaries of the border closures (to 'keep them safe' remember) and resultant economic damage are the boomers, while those most affected by the economic carnage are those generations that follow...

My wife tells me that she’d like to travel to Sydney to see friends. No flippin’ way would I risk letting her because we certainly can’t afford 2 weeks quarantine if they suddenly close the borders. She agrees.

There’s what I imagine would be a pretty common conversation in many households in Australia right now.

Don’t do that, you’ll put the PPRuNe server into quarantine and no one from outside able to enter for 100 years.

The worst part is booking a ticket/s and all that goes with a holiday (no refundable pre paid hire car & other) and waiting for that flight to get airborne.

It is not great but not so bad going into 14 days self isolation on return because of a few cases many miles away but in the state you visited.

But I have already booked another domestic interstate flight.