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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Ragnor 20th Jan 2021 19:40

With the WA election getting momentum, WAxit party is gaining a little momentum. Do WA residents think this would be a good thing and would vote for CP old throw a ways?

chookcooker 20th Jan 2021 21:40


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10971923)
https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/i...azilian-amazon

Its killing younger people. Still want to open the borders dickheads?

you’ll be fine with your $1000 cash in your bumbag and all ya numpty.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 20th Jan 2021 22:34


The single biggest current threat to that position is for some virulent, shit-brained expeditioner to fly in and head straight to a night out at six of our (open, and unrestricted) night-spots.
Why would someone want to go to ALL of WA's night spots?

WingNut60 20th Jan 2021 23:04


Originally Posted by Traffic_Is_Er_Was (Post 10972342)
Why would someone want to go to ALL of WA's night spots?

Very drole. But the answer is obvious.................primarily because they're shite-brains from the eastern states, and we don't have hundreds and hundreds of leagues clubs to go to.
And our bowling clubs (not bowlos, never bowlos) are not staffed with sufficient drag queens to keep the shite-brains happy..

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 20th Jan 2021 23:43


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10972352)
....and we don't have hundreds and hundreds of leagues clubs go to.

That explains the angst....Frustration!


And our bowling clubs (not bowlos, never bowlos) are not staffed with sufficient drag queens to keep the shite-brains happy..
Then you need to employ more! Keep that vibrant economy bustling along! If you don't have a choice of leagues clubs, at least get the bowling clubs up to scratch!

jrfsp 21st Jan 2021 02:33

Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings.....and that they have their own governments that make those decisions, oh wait NZ has a labour gov....

PoppaJo 21st Jan 2021 02:49


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10971746)
Well indeed, i dont think the 787-8s would have great re sale value either, only option would be to transfer to QF to replace 330s on lease, but even that wouldn't be a cheap option, and on short - medium routes the A330s are actually able to hold their own fuel wise and would probably have less capacity than the 332s

78s are all heading to the Alice. Starting this week I believe, unless engine tests disagree.

Airshow is November, can’t sit down at the farm forever. However remains to be seen how much foreign stuff even comes down this year.

michigan j 21st Jan 2021 02:59


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10972425)
Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings..

How is NSW holding this up?

Ragnor 21st Jan 2021 03:08

This thread needs to be renamed “all borders to remain closed”

jrfsp 21st Jan 2021 03:16


Originally Posted by michigan j (Post 10972434)
How is NSW holding this up?

Because of the recent cases of community transmission. There will be no bubbles until we have a sustained period of no community transmission.

dr dre 21st Jan 2021 03:24


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10972231)
With the WA election getting momentum, WAxit party is gaining a little momentum. Do WA residents think this would be a good thing and would vote for CP old throw a ways?

No, it’s a micro party being given some media coverage, not momentum. They’ll have as much as a contribution to Australian Politics as the Motoring Enthusiasts Party.

michigan j 21st Jan 2021 03:27

If you were in Greater Sydney (which typically includes Wollongong, the Central Coast and the Blue Mountains) any time on or after December 21, you cannot enter the ACT, South Australia, Western Australia or Victoria. You are also banned from Queensland, but only if you were in the Greater Sydney hotspot during the previous 14 days.

Tasmania, meanwhile, rates Sydney and Wollongong only as “medium risk”, so people who have visited these areas can enter the island state but must quarantine for 14 days. Tasmania has no restrictions on arrivals from the Central Coast or Blue Mountains.

Victorians can still travel to NSW, the ACT, the Northern Territory, SA and Queensland, but not WA.

Queensland has asked everyone who has recently been in Victoria to get tested, and barred them from visiting health facilities and aged-care or disability homes.

Tasmania allows anyone in from Victoria unless they have visited particular high-risk venues (although when I checked, Victoria’s own list of “close contact” exposure sites was more up-to-date).

Ragnor 21st Jan 2021 04:14

Don't forget SA, by their accord SY is still running rampart with he virus, earliest they expect to consider opening is Feb 2nd.

itsnotthatbloodyhard 21st Jan 2021 04:18


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10972438)
Because of the recent cases of community transmission. There will be no bubbles until we have a sustained period of no community transmission.

Then you can pretty much forget about it at least until the vaccination program’s complete, because as long as we have people coming into the country from COVID-ridden places elsewhere, there will be occasional outbreaks into the community.

I wonder what happened to the original aim of ‘suppression’, which seems to have been arbitrarily changed to ‘elimination’ by some?
What’s the point of a federally-agreed definition of a hotspot, if the states just impose their own definitions, seemingly at random?
Why have a closed border between two places that both have very low rates of infection? It just means the low risk of transmission is on one side of an invisible line on the ground and not the other - doesn’t reduce the overall risk to the Australian population, which is what this should really be about, rather than making individual state governments look good.

I’m all for lockdowns &/or border closures where they make sense, but can’t see how some of what’s going on really helps in the big scheme of things.

jrfsp 21st Jan 2021 04:26


Originally Posted by itsnotthatbloodyhard (Post 10972453)
Then you can pretty much forget about it at least until the vaccination program’s complete, because as long as we have people coming into the country from COVID-ridden places elsewhere, there will be occasional outbreaks into the community.

I wonder what happened to the original aim of ‘suppression’, which seems to have been arbitrarily changed to ‘elimination’ by some?
What’s the point of a federally-agreed definition of a hotspot, if the states just impose their own definitions, seemingly at random?
Why have a closed border between two places that both have very low rates of infection? It just means the low risk of transmission is on one side of an invisible line on the ground and not the other - doesn’t reduce the overall risk to the Australian population, which is what this should really be about, rather than making individual state governments look good.

I’m all for lockdowns &/or border closures where they make sense, but can’t see how some of what’s going on really helps in the big scheme of things.

My point is, we cant lecture to other counties about a bubble when they have chosen elimination and we have chosen suppression. And by elimination i'm talking about community elimination. NZ has the same HQ system but seems to have far less issues with outbreaks.... albeit far less people are moving through their system

And it seems (rightly or wrongly) that the general public is on board with the idea of no community transmission (state election results)

Dannyboy39 21st Jan 2021 04:52

Elimination is never going to happen, unless that TV advert of the huge border walls across state is going to happen. It is so endemic in the population globally already.

Dannyboy39 21st Jan 2021 04:58


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10971745)
I guess it’s a more an issue with, they own these 788s and they can’t sell them for what they want. Was window before all this started to offload 3.

Norwegian has blown that plan by flooding the market with them.

However they might need them now to borrow against them.

There is a very limited SLB market for widebodies right now (there was before the pandemic), so airlines are going to in for an awakening to find out what they’re going to go for.

Chris2303 21st Jan 2021 06:31


Originally Posted by jrfsp (Post 10972425)
Gladys today has reportedly said she wants Pacific / NZ bubble to start......not sure if she got the memo that its actually her state holding up proceedings.....and that they have their own governments that make those decisions, oh wait NZ has a labour gov....

Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.

Ragnor 21st Jan 2021 06:57

It crazy how divisive the population is on this, one mob wants to live under a rock for the next few yrs because they’re so scared and most likely believe every little media beat up they read. The others just want to continue to live (that’s me) in a modified way as normal as possible to 2019.

Aus and NZ will be vaccinated by yrs end do NZ still not want anyone in their country? It has to end at some point and we continue to live. All well and good to not be affected by this now, but there are 100s of 1000s ppl that are what do they do for employment or to see their family etc!

UK have been vaccinating since December is it to early to tell if it is working or not? Italy want it so bad they’re looking at suing Pfizer due to not giving it to them.

blubak 21st Jan 2021 07:01


Originally Posted by Chris2303 (Post 10972480)
Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.

I guess u are a kiwi?
I can understand your feelings about arrivals,we in victoria had a very hard time after the virus went rampant after the govt stuffed up(i dont dispute their f up for 1 moment) however they have turned it around & its because we followed the rules.
Most of us living in vic are i would say very fearful of a 3rd wave & that is why rightly or wrongly we dont look favourably on arrivals or borders being left open when risks are possible.
I know many will disagree with these sentiments & many will think we are fools believing govt spin however we do not have a lot of choice & right now we love our freedom.

dr dre 21st Jan 2021 07:13


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10972484)

UK have been vaccinating since December is it to early to tell if it is working or not?

An article on the early results here

Israel has had the most vaccinated, after two weeks the immunised population has had a 1/3rd decline in infections compared to the non immunised group. The effect of the vaccine on lowering infection rates will become stronger after the second dose.

The effect of the vaccine on reducing serious illness, death and the strain on the health system in Israel, which is the real purpose of the vaccine, should start to be seen by the end of the week according to the article. If the trial results are replicated in real life then it should have a significant effect.

wheels_down 21st Jan 2021 07:17

What’s the plan when Canberra turns the tap off in 8 weeks? If Jetstar want to stand down it’s Sydney or Melbourne base again in April, May, June, the consequences are quite dire for all these workers.

If Canberra want to cut the government assistance to zero, fair enough, it’s had its run, however push all foreign arrivals to inland to prevent any spread around the states, to keep the domestic tourism alive.

The focus for the next half needs to be on keeping domestic tourism and travel alive. Less talk about international let’s try and protect and look after our own backyard for the next year.

I am seeing a lot of talk around International bubbles and so forth, we seem to have enough trouble keeping our states open let alone abroad.

Dannyboy39 21st Jan 2021 07:44


Originally Posted by Chris2303 (Post 10972480)
Let's just forget that the vast majority on NZers do NOT want an open border for some considerable time. I, for one, would be happier if we had no arrivals whatsoever.

How often is any sort of migration a vote winner? Many people would choose to keep borders closed forever and ever.

Ragnor 21st Jan 2021 08:39


Originally Posted by wheels_down (Post 10972493)
What’s the plan when Canberra turns the tap off in 8 weeks? If Jetstar want to stand down it’s Sydney or Melbourne base again in April, May, June, the consequences are quite dire for all these workers.

Well if it’s dire to domestic ML and SY based pilots, just imagine what it is like for a QF380 skip about to go less than JK. Is there a word worse than dire for international pilots?!

currawong 21st Jan 2021 09:50

On suppression vs elimination.

It has pretty much taken an elimination approach to achieve suppression.

Hard to control, but not impossible.

Certainly harder than anticipated a year ago, when it was thought a two week shutdown would beat it.

Pity it didn't.

Buster Hyman 21st Jan 2021 12:01


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10972437)
This thread needs to be renamed “all borders to remain closed”

Nah, with all these State Clowns controlling borders, it really just depends on what time you’re looking at the thread!

Angle of Attack 21st Jan 2021 12:14

No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!

Potsie Weber 21st Jan 2021 13:36


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10972694)
No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!

In the developed states, do they teach the difference between your and you’re?

McLimit 21st Jan 2021 13:42


The effect of the vaccine on reducing serious illness, death and the strain on the health system in Israel, which is the real purpose of the vaccine, should start to be seen by the end of the week according to the article. If the trial results are replicated in real life then it should have a significant effect.
The vaccine is only 'reducing serious illness, death and strain on the health system?'

The vaccine doesn't eliminate the virus?

So, the State/s in Australia that have stated their policy is virus elimination or haven't stated that is their policy but it really is, WILL NEVER, EVER open their borders??

If that is the case, if I were NSW (for they appear to be the only State in Australia behaving rationally), at commencement of immunisation I would immediately close borders to all Australian States that are persuing the 'eliminate' policy. I would then commence negotiations with every vaccinated country and territory in the rest of the world for a resumption of travel and all that goes along with it. Trade, Tourism, Business, Family Reunion, Sporting Events, Conventions..............LIFE................

WingNut60 21st Jan 2021 14:07


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 10972694)
No disrespect to WA but quoting export volumes vs import volumes etc etc, doesn’t cut it. WA produces 15% of the National GDP. The point is in the developed states there is much more to the economy than digging crap out of the ground.WA would be invaded by Australia within weeks of secession basically to stop them getting invaded by anyone else. Don’t get me wrong I lived in WA in a past life and I know how you feel, but your wrong, your basically a mine with nothing else and you need to live elsewhere to realise it. I know it makes you feel good to believe your better, but unfortunately your not, the vast swathe of services come from the Commonwealth, not your state. I’m not saying any Eastern state is better either, I’m one of these rare types that is actually Australian, the whole point that we have become wealthy is unity, not stupid Trumpism division.

But if you really want to break it off go ahead, it would actually be comical watching that debacle!

15% of GDP from 10% of the population.
Hardly enough that. Poor effort indeed.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a0519dad3a.jpg


Angle of Attack 21st Jan 2021 14:20

Thanks Potsie,

You have basically emulated the whole WA thing in one post, a simple grammatical error becomes a big deal over there, don’t worry I get it, I know how it is. I’m not a hater against WA, at all FFS I lived there for quite a few years, but I felt the sense of us and them when I lived there 20 years ago.
But lets be honest, WA would be pilfered within weeks if any secession occurred, Get over it you REQUIRE Australia to survive, that’s the simple of it, also the other states provide 85% of GDP would tend to indicate you don’t have a real economy apart from digging shit out of the ground. Over here we actually make money by commerce, a foreign subject over there, in fact NSW commerce contributes more GDP than the entire WA. I know WA does have commerce, but last financial year it was about 0.2% of GDP. You suckers are stuck to the real engine of the economy while making these insane assertions that your saving the country...Oh yeah sounds like McGowen...

Angle of Attack 21st Jan 2021 14:24

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....4d3846392.jpeg

Angle of Attack 21st Jan 2021 14:28

Wing nut,
now your going on GDP per Capita? Give me a break, that has nothing to do with it
What has something to do with it is WA is 15% of the entire economy, basically a mid tiered minnow,
We lead and McGowan cowers, basically he’s an idiot let’s be frank. You people think WA’s economy is
so important and I get that, when you live in an isolated place you actually believe that and it’s not your fault.

live the dream!

WingNut60 21st Jan 2021 21:37

And you just can't see that it's exactly that patronising BS that infuses every West Australian with a burning desire to go it alone.

dr dre 21st Jan 2021 21:56


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10973075)
And you just can't see that it's exactly that patronising BS that infuses every West Australian with a burning desire to go it alone.

C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.

KRviator 21st Jan 2021 22:10

Shame the spot price of iron ore is so high. Can only wonder what would have happened to McGoose's state budget and the influence on his hard border if it hadn't contributed to such a big surplus.

But, as the saying goes...What goes up, must come down!

WingNut60 21st Jan 2021 22:52


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10973093)
C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.

Yes. That does not represent reality.
What I should have said was that it drives a burning resentment at being forced to listen to that patronising BS at every turn.

Yes, WA is lucky to be able to capitalise on our mineral wealth and agriculture.
Both are subject to cyclic highs and lows. NSW and Victorian exports are too.
While smuggly denigrating WA do they ever consider the probable impact on their sacred financial services division if they were to lose 46% of their revenue.
Or that the services division might just follow the money.
Plenty of banks in the world.

And any conjecture at a Chinese invasion that focuses only on WA is pure wet dream

currawong 21st Jan 2021 22:53

I think people are largely missing the point regarding borders and the like.

More to do with ability (or lack thereof) to deal with a major outbreak, than parochialism, politics, space aliens or whatever.

ICU capacity is a good indicator of that ability.

NZ went tougher, ICU places per capita substantially less than Australia.

Western Samoa, less again. A full on sitting of parliament decides entry on an individual case by case basis there.

But keep up the state hate sledging.

Makes you look smarter.:ok:


Chronic Snoozer 21st Jan 2021 23:20


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10973093)
C’mon wingnut60, you know the amount of West Aussies with a “burning” desire to “go it alone” is minuscule. I know 28% wanted secession on an opinion poll, but there’s a big difference between saying “ummmm yeah secession doesn’t sound that bad” when asked by an opinion pollster and actual tangible steps to make it so.

There’s no protests happening, no politicians want it, the WAxit party is a micro party of Palmer failures who’ll have no political sway at the next election and the real people who run the state (BHP, Rio) don’t want it.

It serves no useful purpose on this thread to pretend there’s a groundswell of grassroots movement for secession.

The irony of your commentary is that it isn't up to WA to secede, the rest of Australia would have to agree to it via a referendum would they not? I was in the WA museum the other day - this very question is posed in one of the displays and a very unscientific counter method used to allow visitors to answer the question "Do you think WA should secede?". The pile of counters for yes was definitely greater than that for no.


And any conjecture at a Chinese invasion that focuses only on WA is pure wet dream
No, they are way more subtle than that.

ruprecht 22nd Jan 2021 00:12


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 10973167)
I was in the WA museum the other day - this very question is posed in one of the displays and a very unscientific counter method used to allow visitors to answer the question "Do you think WA should secede?". The pile of counters for yes was definitely greater than that for no.

The question could have been: “Do you think people from ‘The East’ are really lizard people in disguise?” and the results would have been similar. :p


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