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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Xeptu 14th Sep 2020 11:07


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10884907)
Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Two things that will change our position
A vaccine
A reliable quick test that can be used to better manage our border controls



A reliable quick test is being tested in Israel at the moment. Without looking up anything I did see a news item on it last week
on 3aw. It would provide a 30 sec result. It would be 98% accurate. Well lets hope it's a goer.
This will come out before any vaccine I reckon. If available it would open all borders (wether you like it or not premiers) crossing by car, bus, train, plane, at check in or at the crossings.
Your negative go through, your positive turn back and isolate. Probably still not good enough for the premiers.
Watching this space though.

We are very good at drug and alcohol detection in the workplace within our mining industry, we have zero tolerance yet they still keep turning up in full knowledge of that. These are small numbers and it's dealt with and managed well. That's still a problem though and it shouldn't be happening. A reliable quick test for covid would be no different.
Confidence that a plane load of passengers are arriving negative and proven on arrival would do it for me. I have no doubt it would do it for the greater majority too.
It would be a brave government that refused the decision of the greater majority in any state and in reality I don't believe they would.

michigan j 14th Sep 2020 11:10


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884880)
A 309 is a temporary visa (other) and they have paid many thousands of $'s and often waited 18+ months for that visa.

Any reason you singled that group?

Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

Bend alot 14th Sep 2020 11:40


Originally Posted by michigan j (Post 10884955)
Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

Then what do the 300 folk that are onshore meant to do?

Stats are only good if you understand a bit about them.

I do hope you will answer the 300 guys in a real bad time line position - I do not think they have any options but become illegal.

I know of only 2 cases that months ago got out and back in.

Many of the skilled visas were also granted long ago with PR and every right to enter.

Tourist visas (but that covers possibly many of Tom Hanks crew) is very low - I do not see the point of your post.

Sunfish 14th Sep 2020 19:42

The reason the international borders are closed is to avoid the arrival of millions of well heeled citizens of third world countries seeking an escape from their homeland covid epidemics.

Ragnor 14th Sep 2020 21:51

Queen P puts up $200 million for Virgin to remain in Brisbane, then she closes border virgin sack staff then claims she would rather loose election than open the border virgin sack more staff....mostly in Brisbane money well spent again QLD.

‘In the midst of the worst crisis’: up to 250 Virgin head office jobs face axe

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...896c?width=650Virgin Australia wide-body aircraft are seen grounded at the Brisbane Airport. Picture: Glenn HuntVirgin Australia has warned its recovery plans have been “severely impacted” by Victoria’s COVID-19 and ongoing border closures, informing staff the airline was likely to make up to 250 head office positions redundant.

In a note to staff on Monday, Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah said the aviation industry was “in the midst of the worst crisis” it had ever faced.

“Our cash management throughout this period is absolutely critical,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“One of our largest costs is labour, and with much less transitionary work required as the administration process is coming to an end and without the revenue coming through the door, we simply cannot justify the number of team members who are currently stood up.”

The redundancies will be the second since the airline was purchased by private equity outfit Bain Capital after it fell into administration in April as the coronavirus pandemic shuttered airports and left planes stranded.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...fbf8?width=320Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah at the company’s Southbank office. Picture: Tara CroserVirgin announced earlier this month it would make a third of its workforce — around 3000 people — redundant.

Mr Scurrah, who has remained the company’s chief executive through the Deloitte-run administration, said staff who had been stood down would likely remain so until March 2021, a position which would be reviewed in January.

‘Consultation will occur immediately for roles which are identified as no longer being required as a result of the smaller operation and reduced work,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“We expect around 150 roles to be impacted in addition to the 250 head office roles that have recently been impacted within the operations division.”

But Virgin will also begin a comprehensive review of the way head office works, with Mr Scurrah suggesting it would be redesigned “to suit a smaller, simpler operation”.

“The reality is this will also have the regrettable impact of further job losses,” he wrote.

“I’m aware that for many of you it will feel like we have already done this … last year.

“However, the world and our business have significantly changed since then which must be addressed.”

Virgin last week permanently shut down its Tigerair budget brand after 13 years, although it will retain the air operator certificate so it can revive a low-cost carrier when the domestic travel market has recovered.

As part of Bain Capital’s plan, Virgin will simplify its fleet and largely operate Boeing 737s, removing ATRs, Boeing 777s, Airbus A330s and Airbus A320s.

Virgin’s larger rival, Qantas, has also made significant job cuts through the year. Most recently, it announced 2500 positions across Qantas and its Jetstar brand would be made redundant on top of 6000 jobs cut in June.

Qantas in August recorded a $2bn loss as the coronavirus pandemic pushed full-year revenue down by 21 per cent.

Qantas shares ended up three per cent on Monday at $3.94.

Bain Capital, which offered $3.5bn for Virgin, has had the backing of the Transport Workers Union after the private equity group gave commitments to keep the airline as a full-service carrier and not switch to a low-cost model.

Mr Scurrah told staff on Monday that it was “clear that the impacts of various government decisions to deal with COVID continue to subdue demand for flying”.

“With our current capacity sitting at around 10 per cent, which is supported by federal government subsidies to ensure some limited transportation infrastructure remains functional, the outlook has never been less certain.

“Regrettably, we must again take action to address the impact of this ongoing crisis on our business,” he said.

Sunfish 14th Sep 2020 23:25

This is just one. of many disappointments in store..

blubak 14th Sep 2020 23:27


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10885382)
Queen P puts up $200 million for Virgin to remain in Brisbane, then she closes border virgin sack staff then claims she would rather loose election than open the border virgin sack more staff....mostly in Brisbane money well spent again QLD.

‘In the midst of the worst crisis’: up to 250 Virgin head office jobs face axe

https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...896c?width=650Virgin Australia wide-body aircraft are seen grounded at the Brisbane Airport. Picture: Glenn HuntVirgin Australia has warned its recovery plans have been “severely impacted” by Victoria’s COVID-19 and ongoing border closures, informing staff the airline was likely to make up to 250 head office positions redundant.

In a note to staff on Monday, Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah said the aviation industry was “in the midst of the worst crisis” it had ever faced.

“Our cash management throughout this period is absolutely critical,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“One of our largest costs is labour, and with much less transitionary work required as the administration process is coming to an end and without the revenue coming through the door, we simply cannot justify the number of team members who are currently stood up.”

The redundancies will be the second since the airline was purchased by private equity outfit Bain Capital after it fell into administration in April as the coronavirus pandemic shuttered airports and left planes stranded.
https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/...fbf8?width=320Virgin chief executive Paul Scurrah at the company’s Southbank office. Picture: Tara CroserVirgin announced earlier this month it would make a third of its workforce — around 3000 people — redundant.

Mr Scurrah, who has remained the company’s chief executive through the Deloitte-run administration, said staff who had been stood down would likely remain so until March 2021, a position which would be reviewed in January.

‘Consultation will occur immediately for roles which are identified as no longer being required as a result of the smaller operation and reduced work,” Mr Scurrah wrote.

“We expect around 150 roles to be impacted in addition to the 250 head office roles that have recently been impacted within the operations division.”

But Virgin will also begin a comprehensive review of the way head office works, with Mr Scurrah suggesting it would be redesigned “to suit a smaller, simpler operation”.

“The reality is this will also have the regrettable impact of further job losses,” he wrote.

“I’m aware that for many of you it will feel like we have already done this … last year.

“However, the world and our business have significantly changed since then which must be addressed.”

Virgin last week permanently shut down its Tigerair budget brand after 13 years, although it will retain the air operator certificate so it can revive a low-cost carrier when the domestic travel market has recovered.

As part of Bain Capital’s plan, Virgin will simplify its fleet and largely operate Boeing 737s, removing ATRs, Boeing 777s, Airbus A330s and Airbus A320s.

Virgin’s larger rival, Qantas, has also made significant job cuts through the year. Most recently, it announced 2500 positions across Qantas and its Jetstar brand would be made redundant on top of 6000 jobs cut in June.

Qantas in August recorded a $2bn loss as the coronavirus pandemic pushed full-year revenue down by 21 per cent.

Qantas shares ended up three per cent on Monday at $3.94.

Bain Capital, which offered $3.5bn for Virgin, has had the backing of the Transport Workers Union after the private equity group gave commitments to keep the airline as a full-service carrier and not switch to a low-cost model.

Mr Scurrah told staff on Monday that it was “clear that the impacts of various government decisions to deal with COVID continue to subdue demand for flying”.

“With our current capacity sitting at around 10 per cent, which is supported by federal government subsidies to ensure some limited transportation infrastructure remains functional, the outlook has never been less certain.

“Regrettably, we must again take action to address the impact of this ongoing crisis on our business,” he said.

So,she has given then the $200m or was it part of a deal that didnt happen?
If it has in fact already happened,maybe she now needs to explain why it wasnt instead put into local business including tourism,im sure those business people would like to hear why they didnt get any.

Stickshift3000 15th Sep 2020 00:56


Originally Posted by Sunfish (Post 10885307)
The reason the international borders are closed is to avoid the arrival of millions of well heeled citizens of third world countries seeking an escape from their homeland covid epidemics.

That I understand and agree with.

But why stop Aussies leaving if they agree to quarantine on return? I'd be out of here quicker than anything if I could leave.

KRviator 15th Sep 2020 01:07


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10885460)
That I understand and agree with.

But why stop Aussies leaving if they agree to quarantine on return? I'd be out of here quicker than anything if I could leave.

In WA's case it is one of capacity. They testified in the Palmer trial than can manage 7 hotels associated with COVID quarantine. They currently have 6 operating. So long as they continue to decree everyone entering WA must go through the quarantine process, irrespective of their risk factors, that in turn limits the percentage available for international travellers.

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 01:07


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884989)
Then what do the 300 folk that are onshore meant to do?

Stats are only good if you understand a bit about them.

I do hope you will answer the 300 guys in a real bad time line position - I do not think they have any options but become illegal.

I know of only 2 cases that months ago got out and back in.

Many of the skilled visas were also granted long ago with PR and every right to enter.

Tourist visas (but that covers possibly many of Tom Hanks crew) is very low - I do not see the point of your post..

The point of my post? To inform, and not allow people to jump to shrill and false conclusions.

This data includes the numbers of incoming Australians and non-Australians during the month of August, and also where they are from, and their citizenship and visa status, and provides comparisons with previous time periods.

It doesn't discuss anything else, including those who are already in Australia and who hold a valid visa. I am sorry you read the data as a slur on visa holders who might have been here for some years. It reflects negatively on your ability to comprehend a simple presentation of very basic information. The data does not touch on Tom Hanks or anything else. There are many forms of permanent and temporary visas, and this data does not differentiate between those types.

As for the 300 non-Australians whose visa will shortly expire, they will have to contemplate either getting another visa to stay, or a visa extension, or alternatively either leaving or staying illegally in Australia. Whilst flights are still leaving, there is no excuse for a temporary visa holder to stay illegally in Australia, and doing so will generally reflect negatively on that person in any future visa decisions. Of course I am sorry they are in a bad situation, but the pandemic has not changed this equation. Discussions about whether non-Australians with no income, visa, health cover or access to other support should stay in Australia is not what this data is about. There has never been a prohibition on non-Australians leaving Australia.

Again, this data only discusses the numbers and characteristics of people traveling to Australia during August.

neville_nobody 15th Sep 2020 01:18


If it has in fact already happened,maybe she now needs to explain why it wasnt instead put into local business including tourism,im sure those business people would like to hear why they didnt get any.
.

Because local business is not sexy and usually don't hired large unionised work forces.

Chronic Snoozer 15th Sep 2020 01:25

Here's a statistic. No cases for 5 months but still in lockdown. Discuss.

Mildura

Turnleft080 15th Sep 2020 01:31


Originally Posted by Chronic Snoozer (Post 10885478)
Here's a statistic. No cases for 5 months but still in lockdown. Discuss.

Mildura

Well for starters, that 30,000 votes that won't be going to labor.
They won't forget this come election 2022.

Ladloy 15th Sep 2020 01:48


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10885479)
Well for starters, that 30,000 votes that won't be going to labor.
They won't forget this come election 2022.

I hope that's sarcasm. 2022 in the media/election cycle is an eternity away.
Remember the labor and lib branch stacking? The sports rort? The water scandal which probably has implications in Mildura? What about Morrison going on a holiday at the peak of the bushfires?
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 02:06


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 10885483)
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

As TurnLeft says "that 30 000 votes not going to Labor"

Maggie Island 15th Sep 2020 02:08


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 10885483)
I hope that's sarcasm. 2022 in the media/election cycle is an eternity away.
Remember the labor and lib branch stacking? The sports rort? The water scandal which probably has implications in Mildura? What about Morrison going on a holiday at the peak of the bushfires?
The Murdoch narrative will have their say when we get there.

The Libs do have the option of calling it as early as Aug 21, and thats assuming theres no Double D trickery to make it earlier! Either way many commentators have touted the second half of 2021as the likely slot for the election.

KRviator 15th Sep 2020 02:23


Originally Posted by michigan j (Post 10884955)
Calm down.That is a direct cut and paste from the ABS "Key Statistics"

The other noteworthy thing about those statistics is the percentage of arrivals based on state when viewed against the actual percentage of the Australian population of the state. Ana-StayAway "I'll do anything to protect Queenslanders, even if it means not pulling our weight to make sure I get re-elected" is doing her thing. WA has, at least, stepped up a bit from the previous months, yet everyone is quite happy to lock out NSW residents, even though they are carrying nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals, with the attendant risks that entails...

Originally Posted by The ABS - August Arrivals
% Arrivals / % Oz Population
NSW 62.6 / 31.9
WA 13.9 / 10.3
QLD 13.3 / 20.1
VIC 0.5 / 26.1
SA 7.3 / 6.9
NT 2.5 / 1
ACT 0 / 1.7
TAS 0 / 2.1


Originally Posted by The ABS - July arrivals
% Arrivals / % Oz Population
NSW 61.3 / 31.9
WA 15.9 / 10.3
QLD 16.2 / 20.1
VIC 0.2 / 26.1
SA 2.1 / 6.9
NT 4.3 / 1
ACT 0.1 / 1.7
TAS 0 / 2.1


exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:06


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10884717)
The WA CHO has testified the health system there can cope with a COVID case load of 5,000 active cases, made up of 500 new cases a day, 650 in wards and 124 in ICU. Doesn't sound like "can't cope" to me...


You love to quote numbers, yet you have shown a potential lack of understanding of the data / stats you quote. You still haven't responded to my request on your av life expectancy misunderstanding!

Back in late March WA had 164 icu beds, don't know if thats changed. What happens to the rest of the patients who need ICU beds if 124 are taken up by cv patients? Wasn't this the whole reason of preventing a large outbreak, to prevent the system from being overloaded, not just bed numbers, but staff as well?

Everyone seems to expect the Best Possible Outcome, economically and infection / deaths etc, that just isn't possible given that it appears to be a very difficult to model precisely.


exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:10


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10885493)
The other noteworthy thing about those statistics is the percentage of arrivals based on state when viewed against the actual percentage of the Australian population of the state. Ana-StayAway "I'll do anything to protect Queenslanders, even if it means not pulling our weight to make sure I get re-elected" is doing her thing. WA has, at least, stepped up a bit from the previous months, yet everyone is quite happy to lock out NSW residents, even though they are carrying nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals, with the attendant risks that entails...

Just so you understand, as Paul Bongiorno points out at the New Daily, international quarantine is a Federal responsibility.

exfocx 15th Sep 2020 03:15


Originally Posted by Bend alot (Post 10884265)
No actually I have not, I have heard it is way too early (a few years) to know that economic result.

Sorry Sir Bend alot, not totally correct! Yes, if you're considering what may transpire over the next 5 yrs, but the present data on deaths Vs economic damage as televised by Alan Kohler and others is that > deaths = > economic damage.

slats11 15th Sep 2020 03:34

WA has about 500 ICU beds - public, private, plus surge capacity of 200 new beds (and 300 vents) which started to be added in March.

https://www.mediastatements.wa.gov.a...ical-care.aspx


That said, I understand the logistics of covering a large state, remote communities, and the difficulty getting clinical staff from interstate if WA gets swamped.


Chronic Snoozer 15th Sep 2020 06:14

McGowan get help

:rolleyes:

michigan j 15th Sep 2020 08:22

Next you'll tell me that the WA government used taxpayer money to assist the building of the Crown complex with 1900 Hotel rooms, but has run out of capacity to hold (checks notes) 525 people per week.
I guess those 525 people would generally represent about 250 rooms once you think that a lot would be in families.

But sure, time to open the prisons and detention centres I guess.

Bend alot 15th Sep 2020 09:53


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885504)
Sorry Sir Bend alot, not totally correct! Yes, if you're considering what may transpire over the next 5 yrs, but the present data on deaths Vs economic damage as televised by Alan Kohler and others is that > deaths = > economic damage.

The longer term economic result of countries actions to Covid-19 will take a few years - but if you want to say > (greater) deaths = > (greater) economic damage on present data = Sweden is the worst model of pretty much any nation on the globe.

I shall wait for more data, but I still think Sweden did pretty bad considering they had a pretty big "unofficial" lock-down.

Turnleft080 15th Sep 2020 13:02

Well I watched Dan's presser today full of smirks and praises for regional Vic I'm a winer. It's all my doing.
Though when he spoke about Melbourne still got that couldn't give a rats attitude. Really emphasises the ring of steal
police state, a 14 day period of less than 50, then a 14 day period of 5. That's another 6 weeks of lockdown if that works.
The government is just a one man show. My way or the highway. Fear mongering at it's best.
As Sunfish said a control freak a pain inflicter. He won't lose the next election because he will walk and
take his pension. leave the economic destruction for someone else to fix.
I think of the Tenerife accident and he's got that similar attitude as the KLM captain.

Ragnor 15th Sep 2020 22:07

SA want 14 days no community transmission, Queen P has been reported as following suit announcement to come later in the week. Say if NSW goes 14 days they open business and airlines are already behind as it will take a 2-3 weeks to advertise sell tickets etc. First day of interstate travel there is a community transmission in NSW, does Queen P slam the border shut and SA close up again?

blubak 15th Sep 2020 22:30


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10885815)
Well I watched Dan's presser today full of smirks and praises for regional Vic I'm a winer. It's all my doing.
Though when he spoke about Melbourne still got that couldn't give a rats attitude. Really emphasises the ring of steal
police state, a 14 day period of less than 50, then a 14 day period of 5. That's another 6 weeks of lockdown if that works.
The government is just a one man show. My way or the highway. Fear mongering at it's best.
As Sunfish said a control freak a pain inflicter. He won't lose the next election because he will walk and
take his pension. leave the economic destruction for someone else to fix.
I think of the Tenerife accident and he's got that similar attitude as the KLM captain.

Yeh spot on,funny he hasnt mentioned he didnt put any of his so called security guards into hotels to enforce quarantine in regional victoria,his big f up in melbourne has caused all this but like you say he doesnt give a toss about melbourne now.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 15th Sep 2020 23:39

A recent poll with 140,000 respondents by Channel 9 showed 71% of respondents in favour of the lockdown being extended. The vast majority of victorians don’t watch sky news and understand that opening up too quickly would simply trigger a third wave.

the same pole was latter hijacked by bots to flip the result (10,000 no votes from the same IP address being one example), leading to nine removing the pole.

KRviator 16th Sep 2020 01:01


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885501)
You love to quote numbers, yet you have shown a potential lack of understanding of the data / stats you quote. You still haven't responded to my request on your av life expectancy misunderstanding!

Because the numbers are what they are. They don't lie. As for your fascination with my lack of reply, I hadn't bothered to reply because no matter the expected life expectancy when you attain 80 years of age, you are (typically) still retired, (typically) not contributing to the economy beyond your groceries and fuel purchases and arguing over whether you would expect to die at 86 or 96 or any particular age doesn't contribute to the issue whereby the average age of COVID deaths (in Australia) at the time of writing is 86 years old. Even if we accept the US data, it would mean an effective saving of what? 2,3, maybe 5 years at whatever the life-year-cost is, which renders your point essentially, meaningless in context.


Originally Posted by exfpcx
Everyone seems to expect the Best Possible Outcome, economically and infection / deaths etc, that just isn't possible given that it appears to be a very difficult to model precisely.

Everyone except the CHO's, who seem to be only focused exclusively on the worst possible outcomes. "What if it gets into WA, and what if there is an outbreak and what if that outbreak becomes uncontrolled then it could be catastrophic....yadda yadda."

Yes, if it met all those conditions, I agree. But the chances of that happening, with proper precautions taken, are slim. That has been found, legally, in the Palmer trial. Dual engine failures on a turbine twin, wile extremely rare, still happen, but with proper precautions they are allowed to fly several hours away, overwater even, from the nearest suitable diversion airport, even though a dual failure could still occur.


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10885503)
Just so you understand, as Paul Bongiorno points out at the New Daily, international quarantine is a Federal responsibility.

It does not matter whose responsibility it is. Because, as above, the data doesn't lie. If you have nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals coming in via NSW, then you need more staff to manage those arrivals, and those additional staff have a higher chance of being infected with COVID and thus passing it to their close contacts. We've seen recent cases in the NSW Health System where ED staff have caught it, and they are arguably the most experienced front-line workers in the state when it comes to infection control.

If we accept the premise that it is a federal responsibility then the Federal Government owes a duty to the residents of NSW (and others where the %age is disproportionate) to hold the other states to account over their penalising those residents. It is all well and good for the Qld CHO to declare "We won't open the border until there is 28 days of no community transmission", but conventionally overlook the number of arrivals. Were NSW to outlaw international arrivals completely, like Tasmania has done, then sure, they could easily achieve that figure. But there's next to no possibility while there is chance of infection through the hotel quarantine program.

Qld has locked out ACT residents even though they have a better track record than Qld. "Oh, but they commute from outside the ACT into the ACT, and they could bring the Pestilence with them" says Dr Young. I invite you to look at the NSW COVID Map by postcode, scroll down to Canberra and select the recent button. No recent cases within cooee, yet they are still locked out of Qld. "Border closures are based on risk!" Pigs asre they are. As Chronic Snoozerposted above "It's risk avoidance not risk management. Like aviation, things would all be a lot safer if we just all stayed at home.". After-all, Qld has recent confirmed cases of COVID, we should lock down the state to make sure those AFL players don't catch it in their 5-star luxury quarantine hotel...

Climb150 16th Sep 2020 01:07

The rest of the world will be on the other side and recovering while Australia is still hiding with all the doors and windows locked.

Stickshift3000 16th Sep 2020 02:08


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10886192)
Yeh spot on,funny he hasnt mentioned he didnt put any of his so called security guards into hotels to enforce quarantine in regional victoria,his big f up in melbourne has caused all this but like you say he doesnt give a toss about melbourne now.

No hotels were used in regional Vic for quarantine; they were only used for international arrivals.

Actually, there was a hotel used in Portland for international ships at port. This hotel was guarded by prison & corrective services officers, as it was utilised after private security firms were shown the door.

blubak 16th Sep 2020 02:58


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10886281)
No hotels were used in regional Vic for quarantine; they were only used for international arrivals.

Actually, there was a hotel used in Portland for international ships at port. This hotel was guarded by prison & corrective services officers, as it was utilised after private security firms were shown the door.

Thats what i said'he didnt put any in regional vic' & if he had he now wouldnt be able to bleat about how good regional vic is.
If he had used his supposed top class security system in regional vic they too would be suffering like we are due to his incompetence

exfocx 16th Sep 2020 03:54


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10886248)
Because the numbers are what they are. They don't lie. As for your fascination with my lack of reply, I hadn't bothered to reply because no matter the expected life expectancy when you attain 80 years of age, you are (typically) still retired, (typically) not contributing to the economy beyond your groceries and fuel purchases and arguing over whether you would expect to die at 86 or 96 or any particular age doesn't contribute to the issue whereby the average age of COVID deaths (in Australia) at the time of writing is 86 years old. Even if we accept the US data, it would mean an effective saving of what? 2,3, maybe 5 years at whatever the life-year-cost is, which renders your point essentially, meaningless in context. Again your ignorance of 'average' is astounding. These people have paid their taxes and the fact they're no longer paying tax is irrelevant, that age group is the one that built this country suffering the effects of the depression, WW2 and fought in Korea, not whiney brats such as yourself. You are a narcissistic individual.

Everyone except the CHO's, who seem to be only focused exclusively on the worst possible outcomes. "What if it gets into WA, and what if there is an outbreak and what if that outbreak becomes uncontrolled then it could be catastrophic....yadda yadda." Again your ignorance is on display. The "what ifs" have been widely publicised and you still cannot fathom the outcome!

Yes, if it met all those conditions, I agree. But the chances of that happening, with proper precautions taken, are slim. Same again, you've already shown you have no understandingThat has been found, legally, in the Palmer trial. Again acting the Lawyer with no understanding of the law and likely misquoting because you've also shown you don't understand context, in whatever the situation is: medical, legal, statistical.Dual engine failures on a turbine twin, wile extremely rare, still happen, but with proper precautions they are allowed to fly several hours away, overwater even, from the nearest suitable diversion airport, even though a dual failure could still occur. Oh PLEASE, stick to choo choo trains. Talk about overreach!

It does not matter whose responsibility it is. Because, as above, the data doesn't lie. Again, pretending you understand data, you've already shown your ignorance there. If you have nearly 2/3rds of international arrivals coming in via NSW, then you need more staff to manage those arrivals, and those additional staff have a higher chance of being infected with COVID and thus passing it to their close contacts. We've seen recent cases in the NSW Health System where ED staff have caught it, and they are arguably the most experienced front-line workers in the state when it comes to infection control.

If we accept the premise that it is a federal responsibility then the Federal Government owes a duty to the residents of NSW (and others where the %age is disproportionate) to hold the other states to account over their penalising those residents. Showing your constitutional ignorance, again. It is all well and good for the Qld CHO to declare "We won't open the border until there is 28 days of no community transmission", but conventionally overlook the number of arrivals. Were NSW to outlaw international arrivals completely, like Tasmania has done, then sure, they could easily achieve that figure. But there's next to no possibility while there is chance of infection through the hotel quarantine program.

Qld has locked out ACT residents even though they have a better track record than Qld. "Oh, but they commute from outside the ACT into the ACT, and they could bring the Pestilence with them" says Dr Young. I invite you to look at the NSW COVID Map by postcode, scroll down to Canberra and select the recent button. No recent cases within cooee, yet they are still locked out of Qld. "Border closures are based on risk!" Pigs asre they are. You've already shown you have no understanding of basic stats, so I doubt you could quantify risk fullstop. As Chronic Snoozerposted above "It's risk avoidance not risk management. Like aviation, things would all be a lot safer if we just all stayed at home.". A meaningless statement. After-all, Qld has recent confirmed cases of COVID, we should lock down the state to make sure those AFL players don't catch it in their 5-star luxury quarantine hotel...

A lot of meaningless verbiage. You keep going on about "the data" but time and again you show all you can do is regurgitate "data" with no understanding. Basically you didn't respond because you didn't understand and you needed 5 days to think up a non response.

I'm fairly certain the QLD CHO has forgotten more about "data" than you have ever understood.

currawong 16th Sep 2020 09:40

The numbers are trending well in VIC.

Regardless of what is said here, the rest of the nation IS wishing you all well and that the trend can be maintained.

Western Europe looks to be in for another hammering.

With luck and hard work, that can continue to be avoided here.

All the best, wherever you are.


Chronic Snoozer 16th Sep 2020 10:04


Originally Posted by exfocx (Post 10886300)

I'm fairly certain the QLD CHO has forgotten more about "data" than you have ever understood.

Obviously not the amount of money the likes of Tom Hanks and the AFL plus hangers on bring in to Queensland coffers.

Turnleft080 16th Sep 2020 10:15


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10886429)
The numbers are trending well in VIC.

Regardless of what is said here, the rest of the nation IS wishing you all well and that the trend can be maintained.

Western Europe looks to be in for another hammering.

With luck and hard work, that can continue to be avoided here.

All the best, wherever you are.

Thanks bro however western europe has an interesting trend this time round.
If you check UK, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and others even the USA on worldometers you find the cases are increasing dramatically
though deaths have pretty much flatlined. If the gap continues to increase between these two lines, the better. It means the virus is starting to wane
it gets weaker when it effects more. Just how viruses were meant to work.
The most ironic thing about this virus is it will eventually die itself out. When that happens the vaccine will be just about ready.
If the whole world let it rip and you protect the elderly covid would of finished 2 months ago.
If you lockdown the whole world then you prolong the virus to die out. ie flatten the curve.
End of the day same deaths.


Slezy9 16th Sep 2020 10:34


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886455)
It means the virus is starting to wane
it gets weaker when it effects more. Just how viruses were meant to work.

So how come HIV/ AIDS hasn’t died out? Or the seasonal flu? They are both viruses.

Meant to work according to who?

Turnleft080 16th Sep 2020 10:45


Originally Posted by Slezy9 (Post 10886474)
So how come HIV/ AIDS hasn’t died out? Or the seasonal flu? They are both viruses.

Meant to work according to who?

Hiv/aids is a blood disease. Spread by infected needles. You don't breath that in.
Seasonal flu does die out though it mutates into another strain the following year.



Slezy9 16th Sep 2020 10:55


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886486)
Hiv/aids is a blood disease. Spread by infected needles. You don't breath that in.
Seasonal flu does die out though it mutates into another strain the following year.

Do you have any peer reviewed papers to back up your claim that “viruses just die out”?

Ragnor 16th Sep 2020 11:30


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10886486)
Spread by infected needles.

Maybe go back to med school also. Few other ways that it gets transmitted


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