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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Chad Gates 24th Oct 2021 03:08

Fair enough I guess Clare. Might be easier to understand your support of a statement, if you only quote the statement and not the whole post. Especially when you are quoting someone like SOPS, as we know he’s a myopic MM lover.

SOPS 24th Oct 2021 03:21


Originally Posted by Chad Gates (Post 11131412)
Fair enough I guess Clare. Might be easier to understand your support of a statement, if you only quote the statement and not the whole post. Especially when you are quoting someone like SOPS, as we know he’s a myopic MM lover.

No Chad.. you know very little actually. I like Clare, get sick of people that seem to want us overrun we Covid because they don’t like our Premier. Please don’t assume things.

KRviator 24th Oct 2021 03:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11131413)
No Chad.. you know very little actually. I like Clare, get sick of people that seem to want us overrun we Covid because they don’t like our Premier. Please don’t assume things.

"Overrun with Covid"...Puh-lease. You're more melodramatic than Anna-Stayaway and her "thousands will die each month if we open the border" rubbish.

YOUR CHO - not NSW's, not Qld's, and not whoever is advising ScoMo - testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of managing 500 new cases per day or 5,000 total cases.

IF that is true, then on what grounds does WA continue to exclude 2/3rds of the country from the state based on nothing more than the state in which they live? To the untrained eye, that's against s.117 of the Constitution. If it were based on a defined risk, I'd have no problem with it, nor any leg on which to stand. However, I didn't stand up in court and say "We can manage 5,000 cases". Dr Andy Robertson did.

Originally Posted by The Clive Palmer Trial
Dr Robertson estimates that for 100 new cases per day (or 1,000 active cases), 130 hospital beds and 25 ICU beds would be required, and 14 deaths expected; while for 500 new cases per day (or 5,000 active cases), 650 hospital beds and 124 ICU beds would be required, and 70 deaths expected. These numbers would remain within the capacity of the Western Australian health system to manage, but would substantially increase the burden upon the health system.

So, if the WA health system can manage with upto 500 new cases per day, is it really fair or just to deny 2/3rds of the population entry to Western Australia based on nothing more than their state of residence?

Unless there's something more at play...

Clare Prop 24th Oct 2021 04:09

Yes, when that state of residence had Covid rampant in the community.

And for those who think I am a McGowan fan, he has just decided that aviation businesses who were forced to close during the last lockdown are not eligable for the government small business assistance payment. So I am NOT a fan of him or any other politician. Doesn't mean I want to throw the borders open to people from states that have lost control of the virus. I've been involved in quarantine in the agricultural industry and this is no different.

galdian 24th Oct 2021 05:06

I saw an article that quoted Queen P as saying "...when Delta arrives....' regards vaccinations in QLD.
For an elimination proponent (as a preference ) I thought a major change of direction for her leadership.

Chairman Dan has followed in the NSW footsteps, not his preferred direction maybe but he's pivoted based on vaccination levels.

Tasmania/South Australia/NT have/will pivot and decide direction based on vaccinations.

The success of all the above (or not) will only be determined by time BUT those states have decided a certain path to move forward.

I perceive (rightly/wrongly) McGowan is still a covid eliminator and his actions will be determined more by elimination rather than vaccinations.
It will be interesting to see if/when he makes a Queen P pronouncement "...when Delta arrives....." if he ever does, major change of direction to be handled.

Separate but find it quite offensive he's so proud to spruik the WA budget deficit - which is all well and good.
Just surprised didn't follow with "...and this will allow us to fund improvements in health/infrastructure/welfare housing/..........whatever.

Leadership? Hmmmmmm.





Potsie Weber 24th Oct 2021 05:23


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11131383)
I don't think so in the slightest. You reap what you sow, and for such a large percentage of the WA population to vote for McGowan on the basis of his state border policies to the detriment of the rest of the country, to me, says they deserve everything that comes their way.

How many hundreds of thousands of people have suffered as a result of WA's border policies? As a result of Queensland's? Take a look at the hundreds of media reports about people being detained in hotel quarantine while their parent dies only a mile or two away, parents being told they cannot enter the hospital to see their child undergoing critical treatment as they're from NSW and an unelected official declared an entire state a Covid Hotspot or health staff being told they'll not be allowed to leave their home if they go to work across the border as they'll need to quarantine (endlessly) on their return. So no, I don't think wishing ill will on a state that does that is out of line - for the simple reason they have done it to everyone else - and keep right on doing it!

You need to stop focussing on Rio Tinto and consider the broader context, I used Rio as they were the first ones out of the gate to complain about the worker shortage. Fast forward a few days and BHP did the same, yet you've not commented on them at all. Or the cafe's who are short of chefs, the c0ckies who need workers for the harvest or the pubs up north who don't have backpackers pulling beers.

Whilst strong borders were McGowan’s election mantra, it was the absolute lack of any alternative that saw the landslide. The Libs were an embarrassment, so much so, even there most diehard liberal supporters could not vote for them. It was the most one sided election ever, with the libs left begging for sympathy votes as their main policy. If you believe it was all McGowan and his borders that got the landslide, you are simply stoking his inflated ego.

galdian 24th Oct 2021 05:45


Originally Posted by Potsie Weber (Post 11131435)
Whilst strong borders were McGowan’s election mantra, it was the absolute lack of any alternative that saw the landslide. The Libs were an embarrassment, so much so, even there most diehard liberal supporters could not vote for them. It was the most one sided election ever, with the libs left begging for sympathy votes as their main policy. If you believe it was all McGowan and his borders that got the landslide, you are simply stoking his inflated ego.

Interesting, when discussing with a friend he thought some of the policies of the Lib's were worth considering and that the leader of the Lib's carried himself OK for a young'un considering circumstances.

I always thought the template (Qld election) indicated the way things were go, from what I saw Deb F was less than useless but some upside in the WA opposition leader yet WA has a total of 2 (yes 2) members of the opposition.

Wait to see if/when MM decides he has to open up and abandon "hermit" mentality, could be fun to watch. Popcorn anyone! ;)






43Inches 24th Oct 2021 06:27

I don't hold much weight to arguments like 'the libs had no policy' such widespread swings shows the whole state rejected everything liberal en-masse as a point. The swing completely obliterated any local members efforts to bring a constituency around to their points. Even if the libs had no policy some local members would have had some line and worked hard, or were all 53 members who were rejected just terrible. A government of 53 out of 59 seats is not formed just by one man alone, there's 52 others who were voted into parliament for their local area. Or are we that ignorant to how democracy works in Australia. Governments that are voted in on the whim of 'better the devil you know' don't get huge majorities. One thing I see in the rhetoric of Labor is strong patriotism in state matters, which obviously correlates with the voters. He stands up for WAs rights in the face of those nasty Easterners, hence why I say (with some joking and some seriousness) to be prepared for a WAXIT referendum back on the agenda if they continue with this popularity, if not only to wrangle more tax dollars back in WAs favor.

De_flieger 24th Oct 2021 08:23


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 11131437)
Interesting, when discussing with a friend he thought some of the policies of the Lib's were worth considering and that the leader of the Lib's carried himself OK for a young'un considering circumstances.

I always thought the template (Qld election) indicated the way things were go, from what I saw Deb F was less than useless but some upside in the WA opposition leader yet WA has a total of 2 (yes 2) members of the opposition.

Having spent a bit of time in WA in the last few years it's been interesting to watch the political tide - in 2017, pre-covid the Libs lost the state election in what their own reports described as a landslide too, so they've had ongoing problems. It can't all be written off as insular sandgropers who want to slam the borders shut thanks to covid and to hell with everything else.

Throw in a bunch of apparent branch-stacking, some poorly chosen candidates ( one who was a 5G-covid conspiracist, and another woman married to a pastor who thinks pornography viewers are going to hell and that homosexuals need to be "cleansed", and who wasn't allowed to answer questions about whether she shared his views ), as well as a lot of people felt that the selected candidates had extreme and unrepresentative religious views, and the brand was on the nose. That's taking things from the Liberal Party's own post-election report as to why people didn't vote for them, not my personal views. Throw in Scott Morrison backing Clive Palmer, which set up an easy free kick for McGowan, and the leader of the opposition announcing defeat well before the election, and the outcome was fairly much in line with what would be expected.

Ladloy 24th Oct 2021 12:11


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11131444)
I don't hold much weight to arguments like 'the libs had no policy' such widespread swings shows the whole state rejected everything liberal en-masse as a point. The swing completely obliterated any local members efforts to bring a constituency around to their points. Even if the libs had no policy some local members would have had some line and worked hard, or were all 53 members who were rejected just terrible. A government of 53 out of 59 seats is not formed just by one man alone, there's 52 others who were voted into parliament for their local area. Or are we that ignorant to how democracy works in Australia. Governments that are voted in on the whim of 'better the devil you know' don't get huge majorities. One thing I see in the rhetoric of Labor is strong patriotism in state matters, which obviously correlates with the voters. He stands up for WAs rights in the face of those nasty Easterners, hence why I say (with some joking and some seriousness) to be prepared for a WAXIT referendum back on the agenda if they continue with this popularity, if not only to wrangle more tax dollars back in WAs favor.

and hey, the federal libs had no policy last election and still won!

SOPS 24th Oct 2021 15:42


Originally Posted by De_flieger (Post 11131478)
Having spent a bit of time in WA in the last few years it's been interesting to watch the political tide - in 2017, pre-covid the Libs lost the state election in what their own reports described as a landslide too, so they've had ongoing problems. It can't all be written off as insular sandgropers who want to slam the borders shut thanks to covid and to hell with everything else.

Throw in a bunch of apparent branch-stacking, some poorly chosen candidates ( one who was a 5G-covid conspiracist, and another woman married to a pastor who thinks pornography viewers are going to hell and that homosexuals need to be "cleansed", and who wasn't allowed to answer questions about whether she shared his views ), as well as a lot of people felt that the selected candidates had extreme and unrepresentative religious views, and the brand was on the nose. That's taking things from the Liberal Party's own post-election report as to why people didn't vote for them, not my personal views. Throw in Scott Morrison backing Clive Palmer, which set up an easy free kick for McGowan, and the leader of the opposition announcing defeat well before the election, and the outcome was fairly much in line with what would be expected.

And you wait until the Federal election advertising starts in WA. Clive Palmer is despised here. The worst thing ScoMo did was back him. Labor will milk that for all its worth.

KRviator 24th Oct 2021 21:27


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 11131419)
Yes, when that state of residence had Covid rampant in the community.

Is being such a drama king a WA thing? "Rampant in the Community"...Really? Have you bothered to look at the figures yourself? Or are you one of those people who believe everything your State Daddy tells you?

The ACT has more Covid cases per capita than does NSW, and has done since the 17th October, yet is classified two steps lower than NSW, to the point you can quarantine at home if you were to travel to WA, whereas Joe Q Public from NSW cannot travel to WA at all - even if their only child lays dying in hospital - not even to quarantine at their expense in a Government managed hotel...

The ACT is currently classified as "Medium Risk" according to the WA Controlled Border program, while NSW is assessed as "Extreme Risk". The 14-day rolling average for those states sits at 384 for NSW and 27 for the ACT, however, if you normalise those figures for population, you get 518 for the ACT (as NSW's population is 18.9x greater) and, again normalised for population, the ACT has peaked at over 700 on a 14-day rolling average, but IIRC they have never gone above the "Medium Risk" category, because it does not factor in population size, so as an assessment tool, it is useless, and unfairly penalises those states with higher populations.

IF that's the quality of the "health advice" being provided in WA it's no wonder your health system is up the shyte.

Transition Layer 24th Oct 2021 22:28

Extremely valid points you raise about the disparity between NSW and ACT case numbers KRviator. :D

Hopefully someone calls them out on it soon, although it’s unfortunately very rare to see any tough questions asked of McGowan or Cook at any press conference.

43Inches 24th Oct 2021 22:38

Unfortunately apart from NSW and Vic who seem to react to each others progress and adjust I doubt you will see any change over west, probably the opposite. QLD, who knows, that state is erratic and could just open or go full McGowan at any time for any reason not related to anything.

galdian 24th Oct 2021 23:07


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11131787)
Unfortunately apart from NSW and Vic who seem to react to each others progress and adjust I doubt you will see any change over west, probably the opposite. QLD, who knows, that state is erratic and could just open or go full McGowan at any time for any reason not related to anything.

Disagree regards QLD, think Queen P's new position is "live with Delta, it will come, get vaccinated", like when Chairman Dan saw the light in Victoria the change in direction was immediate and forceful.

McGowan will run his own race until his conversion to "live with Delta, it will come, get vaccinated", good luck betting when it'll happen.

Ladloy 24th Oct 2021 23:45


Originally Posted by galdian (Post 11131796)
Disagree regards QLD, think Queen P's new position is "live with Delta, it will come, get vaccinated", like when Chairman Dan saw the light in Victoria the change in direction was immediate and forceful.

McGowan will run his own race until his conversion to "live with Delta, it will come, get vaccinated", good luck betting when it'll happen.

It will happen when the vaccination rates pick up, just like it did in every other state. The issue is supply of vaccinations has been woeful to begin with coupled with diverting to Sydney during this delta outbreak. To think that the QLD and Vic government has seen the light is beyond stupid. If you think they intended to keep borders shut and people locked down indefinitely you have rocks in your head. The narrative has to be black and white for the simpeltons.


I also love when people use names like Chairman Dan, palachook, Queen P. Straight away I know what flavour of propaganda you consume. Using it detracts from your argument.

galdian 25th Oct 2021 00:12


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11131805)
It will happen when the vaccination rates pick up, just like it did in every other state. The issue is supply of vaccinations has been woeful to begin with coupled with diverting to Sydney during this delta outbreak. To think that the QLD and Vic government has seen the light is beyond stupid. If you think they intended to keep borders shut and people locked down indefinitely you have rocks in your head. The narrative has to be black and white for the simpeltons.


I also love when people use names like Chairman Dan, palachook, Queen P. Straight away I know what flavour of propaganda you consume. Using it detracts from your argument.

What's changed is their direction from contain/eradicate to "live with it".
I see WA as the only state that - for whatever reasons - hasn't seen the light, it will be interesting when McGowan does.

Personally can't think of any pollies at the moment who provide any inspiration, I don't see using terms of endearments as in any way detracting from anything.

43Inches 25th Oct 2021 00:26

To be fair the 'Dan plan' has always been since vaccination became available to Suppress, Contain and then open up and live with once a certain level of vaccination was achieved. Living in Victoria I've watched a lot of his announcements to see what applies to me and the narrative has not changed much in 9 months. The idea of suppression and containment was to try to have some sort of normal life until vaccination rates peaked, the recent outbreak forced their hand to move faster. What was not spelled out until recently was what level of vax equated to what level of 'living with'. It's quite clear that as NSW has opened up with no real huge spikes, Vic has adjusted and offered more freedoms at similar stages than what was planned, the expectation that the state will be pretty much completely open, possibly with just mask requirements by Christmas is looking pretty good.

logansi 25th Oct 2021 00:44


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11131815)
To be fair the 'Dan plan' has always been since vaccination became available to Suppress, Contain and then open up and live with once a certain level of vaccination was achieved. Living in Victoria I've watched a lot of his announcements to see what applies to me and the narrative has not changed much in 9 months. The idea of suppression and containment was to try to have some sort of normal life until vaccination rates peaked, the recent outbreak forced their hand to move faster. What was not spelled out until recently was what level of vax equated to what level of 'living with'. It's quite clear that as NSW has opened up with no real huge spikes, Vic has adjusted and offered more freedoms at similar stages than what was planned, the expectation that the state will be pretty much completely open, possibly with just mask requirements by Christmas is looking pretty good.

Exactly this. I've mostly supported Dan through the pandemic and always said to friends that, that would change if he didn't open up once the best available protection was available to all. People who criticise him and use childish names have been fed lies that this wasn't always the plan, be it Victoria or NSW the long-term plan was the same, the only real difference being that sadly Victoria ended up having the outbreak last year NSW didn't. I will never understand how people, including some here are praising NSW but still chanting "chairman dan", Victoria is literally doing everything NSW is doing, opening borders, almost all rules gone.

morno 25th Oct 2021 03:16


Originally Posted by Ladloy (Post 11131805)
I also love when people use names like Chairman Dan, palachook, Queen P. Straight away I know what flavour of propaganda you consume. Using it detracts from your argument.

Actually, given that her surname is Polish with original pronunciation very much like “palachook”, not the ridiculous pronunciation that she uses now, then I’d say that it adds to the argument, not detracts from it.


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