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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

KRviator 20th Aug 2021 05:14

Here we go again....:ugh::mad:


A mother in northern New South Wales has been denied entry to Queensland for vital tests on a cyst on her four-month-old baby's brain, as border restrictions tighten.

Amy Gerang-Hall, who lives at Bangalow in the NSW north coast border region, had received a medical exemption to cross the border with her daughter, Davina, for a specialist MRI scan. However, Queensland Health has since told Ms Gerang-Hall it is treating all NSW patients as if they were from a hotspot.

"If we were to go there, we could only go into the Emergency Department and her neurologist would have to come and see her there, and everyone would be in PPE [Personal Protective Equipment]. "But she needs to have an MRI, which means she would have to go to the MRI department, and because that was in the hospital, we weren't allowed."
And from abit further down in the article:

Chris Ingall, a paediatrician in Lismore, NSW, said he was concerned border complications were placing infants' and children's lives at risk.Dr Ingall said it felt like dťjŗ vu from a similar situation in 2020.

"Even last weekend we had four babies and children who required emergency care.

"Three of those four we had to send down to Newcastle because Queensland Health dictated that the parent would have to go into separate, self-funded hotel accommodation for two weeks of quarantine away from their child," he said. "So, the parents say, 'Look, I will just have to go south, even though I am moving away from my supports and family' and so forth. "We have babies who are breastfeeding, establishing breastfeeding, who have bowel obstructions, who have respiratory illness requiring ventilator support.

"There is this intractable Queensland Health approach, which I think is putting children's and babies' lives at risk."

It's been a year since Ballina couple Kimberley and Scott Brown lost one of their unborn twins. After suffering pregnancy complications, Ms Brown was flown to Sydney for emergency surgery, instead of a much closer Queensland hospital due to the border closure.Source

ruprecht 20th Aug 2021 05:55

Iíd like my QLD flood levy back, please.

compressor stall 20th Aug 2021 06:01

Noticed on some FIR NOTAMs overseas no Q required if vaccinatedÖ but second jab must be not more than 9 months old.

booster certificates anyone?

SOPS 20th Aug 2021 07:35

West Australians have until midnight Wednesday to get home. After that, itís too late. And Iím guessing it will be until a least the end of the year, but I hope Iím wrong.

KRviator 20th Aug 2021 07:38

I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

SOPS 20th Aug 2021 07:42


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11098321)
I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

I hate to point this out, but Delta has already been in WA. A women came back from Sydney in June and later tested positive for Delta. On the one case alone, Perth and Mandurah went into a hard and fast lockdown for 4 days.. and the outbreak was controlled.

WingNut60 20th Aug 2021 08:23


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11098316)
West Australians have until midnight Wednesday to get home. After that, itís too late. And Iím guessing it will be until a least the end of the year, but I hope Iím wrong.

The warning has been in the winds for several days now.
There are no surprises here.

It'll be pretty hard for someone to claim that they "got caught"

Turnleft080 20th Aug 2021 09:00


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 11098340)
The warning has been in the winds for several days now.
There are no surprises here.

It'll be pretty hard for someone to claim that they "got caught"

Meanwhile back in Vic, Dan was more angry ( like not happy Jan add) saying "the government done our bit if numbers rise it is entirely your fault. We will lockdown harder." I didn't think we could lockdown any harder. I heard on 3aw take off one more hour off exercise, extend curfew 8pm-6am, kill the gardeners and take away. "On a knife edge".

Chronic Snoozer 20th Aug 2021 09:43


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11098321)
I'm going to absolutely pi$$ myself when it gets into WA. Even if I'm off work for another 6 months, it'll be worth it...:}

Yes champ. That's the attitude to have.

MickG0105 20th Aug 2021 09:43


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11098279)
I have been trying to find info (maybe someone can) on the sudden disappearance of the Wuhan, Alpha, Beta, Gamma variants. On most graphs they are down to < 2%. Vaccines pretty march started at the beginning of the year so it wasn't the vaccines that kicked them out. Did the Delta variant just push them aside. ...

It's straightforward evolution, survival of the fittest, where fitness is measured in infectiousness.

The coronavirus has the potential to throw up a mutation every time it infects a cell and produces more of itself (ie. each 'generation'). Some of the mutations yield nothing in particular but every once in a while a mutation that changes the spike protein will make that variant more infectious. If that new variant is significantly more infectious and occurs in a relatively uninfected population, it's off to the races. Typically the more infectious variant outperforms its forebear and becomes the new dominant strain, initially in that population. The wonder of international air travel tends to be what connects a new variant to broader populations.

Thus when the 'original' Wuhan reached the UK that relatively uninfected population become the feedstock for the alpha-variant, about 50 percent more contagious than the original. In South Africa the original variant threw up the beta-variant, again about 50 percent more contagious than the original. Gamma probably first developed in South America but manifested itself in Japan. Delta appears to be one of the first variants on a variant, in that it almost certainly mutated from a non-original strain, likely alpha-variant, in the Indian population. It is estimated to be 60 percent more infectious than alpha and thus quickly dominated the previous dominant variant.

There's also been a raft of other variants - epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, etc - recorded that have bobbed in a specific sub-populations but that have either been not significantly more infectious than their forbear or emerged too late such that they couldn't achieve dominance.

PoppaJo 20th Aug 2021 09:47

Melbourne is about to explode and it appears a Kiwi like lockdown is being announced in the morning, for the whole state.



Turnleft080 20th Aug 2021 10:28


Originally Posted by MickG0105 (Post 11098380)
It's straightforward evolution, survival of the fittest, where fitness is measured in infectiousness.

The coronavirus has the potential to throw up a mutation every time it infects a cell and produces more of itself (ie. each 'generation'). Some of the mutations yield nothing in particular but every once in a while a mutation that changes the spike protein will make that variant more infectious. If that new variant is significantly more infectious and occurs in a relatively uninfected population, it's off to the races. Typically the more infectious variant outperforms its forebear and becomes the new dominant strain, initially in that population. The wonder of international air travel tends to be what connects a new variant to broader populations.

Thus when the 'original' Wuhan reached the UK that relatively uninfected population become the feedstock for the alpha-variant, about 50 percent more contagious than the original. In South Africa the original variant threw up the beta-variant, again about 50 percent more contagious than the original. Gamma probably first developed in South America but manifested itself in Japan. Delta appears to be one of the first variants on a variant, in that it almost certainly mutated from a non-original strain, likely alpha-variant, in the Indian population. It is estimated to be 60 percent more infectious than alpha and thus quickly dominated the previous dominant variant.

There's also been a raft of other variants - epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, etc - recorded that have bobbed in a specific sub-populations but that have either been not significantly more infectious than their forbear or emerged too late such that they couldn't achieve dominance.

Thanks for that MickG0105. Makes you wonder, the longer you lockdown the more time their is to generate a new variant.

Potsie Weber 20th Aug 2021 10:50

What happens when we get to the end of the Greek alphabet for variants? Is that when this ends or do we move onto Roman numerals?

MickG0105 20th Aug 2021 10:59


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 11098396)
Thanks for that MickG0105. Makes you wonder, the longer you lockdown the more time their is to generate a new variant.

You're welcome.

And yes and no on the latter. Each infected person is an incubator for a potential new variant. If you keep the number of infected down, you reduce the likelihood of a new, significantly more infectious variant emerging. Further, if you have measures in place to limit spread you can prevent a new variant from gaining a foothold. That's why the way out of this is likely to be multifaceted - at the very least a combination of vaccination and some infection control measures.

Lead Balloon 20th Aug 2021 11:00

That's why the Omega strain is going to be 'interesting'. We need to hope against hope that the 'light at the end of the tunnel' isn't the glow of the Omega or some other strain that's mutated to luminescence.

Paragraph377 20th Aug 2021 11:30

Iím still curious as to one thing - if Ďtechnicallyí they donít know/canít prove how or what caused the virus, or what causes it to mutate, then how can the Government actually know what the real solution for eradicating it is? Are lockdowns, masks and the current vaccines really going to work long term? Where does root cause come into this - itís pretty difficult to resolve this pandemic if you donít even know what the root cause is in the first place? For Melbourne to go into lockdown 6 times it shows that the current measures are not effective because the virus does keep coming back and spreading.

TBH, I donít need a lecture in the theories of mask wearing and lockdowns to minimise the spread, I get it. Iím looking at the prospect of this - if you donít know what causes the problem how can you truly fix it? Because with these variants it looks like we could be doing this tango for years, and that is not only unsustainable, it is not addressing the root cause, and without a root cause how can they create a workable Ďfixí?





PoppaJo 20th Aug 2021 11:31

I know the rest of the year is going to be tough down south but sweet Jesus.



ScepticalOptomist 20th Aug 2021 12:01


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11098428)
Iím still curious as to one thing - if Ďtechnicallyí they donít know/canít prove how or what caused the virus, or what causes it to mutate, then how can the Government actually know what the real solution for eradicating it is? Are lockdowns, masks and the current vaccines really going to work long term? Where does root cause come into this - itís pretty difficult to resolve this pandemic if you donít even know what the root cause is in the first place? For Melbourne to go into lockdown 6 times it shows that the current measures are not effective because the virus does keep coming back and spreading.

TBH, I donít need a lecture in the theories of mask wearing and lockdowns to minimise the spread, I get it. Iím looking at the prospect of this - if you donít know what causes the problem how can you truly fix it? Because with these variants it looks like we could be doing this tango for years, and that is not only unsustainable, it is not addressing the root cause, and without a root cause how can they create a workable Ďfixí?

We have no ďfixĒ or cure for the flu, but we have learned to live with it. CV and whatever else comes next will eventually be the same.

MickG0105 20th Aug 2021 12:17


Originally Posted by Paragraph377 (Post 11098428)
I’m still curious as to one thing - if ‘technically’ they don’t know/can’t prove how or what caused the virus, or what causes it to mutate ...

The mechanism by which coronaviruses replicate and mutate is very well understood - the RNA replication process that occurs after a coronavirus infects a cell is markedly less accurate than DNA replication. Each time a replication occurs the RNA creates a protein sequence and that protein sequence is then used to create a new strand of RNA - the protein sequence is a bit like a negative in photography or a mould in casting. Because of the inherent weakness in RNA replication there is a very small chance that the protein sequence could change slightly so you end up with a very, very slightly flawed negative or mould. Those changes result in the next generation of RNA that is printed/cast being changed every so slightly. When you have many, many replications occurring many, many times as you would get in a large infected population, basic probability favors that the virus will adjust. It is straightforward evolution but on a very, very condensed timeline because of a) the relatively very short inter-generarional cycle time and b) the relatively poor accuracy of the replication process. Most of the time the small 'misprints' or 'miscasts' (mutations) that arise have no effect whatsoever on how the coronavirus interacts with its target hosts but every once in a while they do.

And you don't need to know how or what "caused" the original coronavirus to emerge, once you have mapped it genetically then you're on your way to dealing with it.

Chronic Snoozer 20th Aug 2021 12:18


Originally Posted by PoppaJo (Post 11098430)
I know the rest of the year is going to be tough down south but sweet Jesus.


https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_kenn...63173716987909

How responsible, from a former politician. How many likes is he after?


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