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43Inches 23rd Oct 2021 06:12

No doubt, but that comment was in regard to the long haul pilots having work, not domestic A330 crew, who would still be doing east coast runs as well.

With regard to A330 vs others that's now purely a QF consideration with no other airline operating the wide-bodies on that route so its all 737 and A320 traffic otherwise. In the days VA did it, there was a short run of good A330 coverage, but the last few years with yield management more and more 737 were being used to alleviate cost factor. Even in the US there is a move towards more cost effective large single aisle, with more A321 on order than ever, which shows they are over the issues the 757 was culled for, the expectation of long turn around times due to one aisle. QF is more unique, in that it has good corporate contracts so it can make profit on lower load factors due to its brand loyalty, something it's lived off for some time now.

KRviator 23rd Oct 2021 07:11


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11130945)
No doubt, but that comment was in regard to the long haul pilots having work, not domestic A330 crew, who would still be doing east coast runs as well.

True, however the only reason the Perth LH crews are going to stay stood down until the year 2325AD is due to one reason, and one reason only. McGowan's border bollocks. Were he to see sense and do as other states have done, then they'd likely be getting recurrent if not now, then in the very near future and flying again by Christmas.


Originally Posted by SOPS
If everything comes to a grinding halt because we canít possibly survive without all you wise men from the east, we will sort it out when it happens. No need for you to worry.

Clearly not.

Rio Tinto lost $3.2B profit - not revenue - profit due to the labour shortage in their iron ore operation. Work out the lost royalties on that, the lost payroll tax, the lost income tax from employee bonus payments, etc. BHP would be similar, and they have just advertised for Drivers for their rail network for the third time this year because they have introduced a "Thou shall live in WA" clause to their selection criteria. And the fact BHP - who pay a bucketoad more $$ on a far better roster than most any other operator outside the Pilbara cannot get WA-based crew show that WA can't do the job. If they could, Rio & BHP wouldn't be out billions of dollars and neither they, nor the tourist operators would be crying about the labour shortage in the state.

But they are. Because WA cannot manage things themselves, no matter how much you would like to think you can. If you could - I wouldn't have had a job there for well over a decade!


Originally Posted by Clare Prop
Hear hear. It's very tedious reading all the bile and hatred.

No one's forcing you to read it.

But you know what I've noticed from reading it? It isn't really directed at Steve Marshall, or Peter Gutwein or Michael Gunner, nor has it ever been. It has been, almost without fail, directed at McGowan & Anna-Stayaway, because it has been their border polices that have caused so much heartache. Even now, McGowan is not following his own border policies. NSW is still classified as "Extreme Risk" - defined as an average caseload of 500/day on a 14day rolling average. NSW has been under that for days - since the 19th October when we went from 508/day to 483/day on a 14-day rolling average.

The other interesting tidbit about that is the ACT remains Medium Risk for the WA border bollocks and has been for yonks, IIRC. However, if you correct the ACT case numbers, for NSW's population (NSW having 18.9x the population of the ACT), you will find the ACT has been above 500/day on a 14 day average since the 4th October. But they remain "Medium risk", even though they have a higher percentage of cases. :ugh:

neville_nobody 23rd Oct 2021 07:40


ot quite sure where this free money is coming from, oh that's right the gov is giving back WA citizens 40 cents in every dollar they pay in taxes.... The rest goes to subsidizing QLD, SA and the NT. Why QLD needs subsidising when they have wondrous COAL who knows... Oh that's right no one needs that stuff anymore so we sell it at close to cost to make it seem like there's an industry and take money from WAs profitable iron ore and gold production to prop up our economy.
Who then in turn have members of their population serve in the ADF to live in and defend your state.

itsnotthatbloodyhard 23rd Oct 2021 07:41


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11130945)
No doubt, but that comment was in regard to the long haul pilots having work, not domestic A330 crew, who would still be doing east coast runs as well.

Not sure what you mean here. There is no such thing as Ďdomestic A330 crewí - all QF A330 crew are long haul, who sometimes fly domestic sectors.

43Inches 23rd Oct 2021 07:54

Rio Tinto is a bad example of Covid problems, 1st half 2019 revenue $21.8 Billion vs 1st Half 2021 revenue of $33.1 Billion. The other indicators are even stronger, they doubled EBITDA and free cashflow over the same period. So whatever losses they claim to have made from covid are overshadowed by a MASSIVE increase in revenue and profitability. To be honest they are just looking for excuses as to why they can't continue 50% growth factors and anyone can see that next year will look bad even if they have 20% growth, "oh but it's half the growth of last year...."


Not sure what you mean here. There is no such thing as ‘domestic A330 crew’ - all QF A330 crew are long haul, who sometimes fly domestic sectors.
I don't fly the A330 so I thought there was a domestic vs LH crew, my apologies. In any case I thought the 330s were still flying east coast and some WA as well, I was actually suprised to see them slinking around during lockdown.

dr dre 23rd Oct 2021 08:33


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11130993)
I don't fly the A330 so I thought there was a domestic vs LH crew, my apologies. In any case I thought the 330s were still flying east coast and some WA as well, I was actually suprised to see them slinking around during lockdown.

All domestic CC are to be stood up from sometime in December, last time that happened was earlier in the year when borders were mostly open and the 330 was doing a substantial amount of transcons. As there hasnít been any real loss of CC since then (the VR was done earlier) then it could be assumed that the same amount 330 flying would be done domestically from the start of next year too.


itsnotthatbloodyhard 23rd Oct 2021 10:19


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11130993)


I don't fly the A330 so I thought there was a domestic vs LH crew, my apologies. In any case I thought the 330s were still flying east coast and some WA as well, I was actually suprised to see them slinking around during lockdown.

From the context, I assume you meant pilots - but if referring to cabin crew, youíd be quite right, both LH and SH operate on the 330 (and both LH & SH have been operating east coast to Perth).

Transition Layer 23rd Oct 2021 12:00

Seems like there are plenty of people commenting on this thread who donít understand the huge and direct impact that the WA Govt policies have on the ability of airline crews to do their jobs. And if you want to be more specific, the quarantine requirements for WA are now the difference between full time work and stand down for QF Long Haul pilots, as per Fridayís announcement.

If you donít understand the finer details and realise why itís infuriating, then donít comment. Itís an insult to the rest of us who just want to live in Perth and do our jobs. International Pilots in the rest of Australia will very shortly be able to go back to normalÖwho knows when that will happen in WA.

SHVC 23rd Oct 2021 22:07


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11130857)
So if the deadline is Dec 31st whereíd you pull April from?


31st first does for group 2 industry, say if they use AZ December 31st min 4 weeks maximum 12 for second dose which will be March then he is quoted in many statements that he will look at opening when 80% is reached.

I want WA to remain closed I want those mines to keep
scaling back due labor shortages and I want to see WA wake up and get pi$$ed at each other when they see the rest of us living. WA is in lockdown and you donít even realize it.

February, March April

KRviator 23rd Oct 2021 22:24


Originally Posted by 43Inches (Post 11130993)
Rio Tinto is a bad example of Covid problems, 1st half 2019 revenue $21.8 Billion vs 1st Half 2021 revenue of $33.1 Billion. The other indicators are even stronger, they doubled EBITDA and free cashflow over the same period. So whatever losses they claim to have made from covid are overshadowed by a MASSIVE increase in revenue and profitability.

I don't think you can compare their finances from 2019 to 2021 and say they Covid hasn't caused an issue, which was the point of my comment. In January 2019, the ore price was around $75/T for most of the month, before finishing at $117/T in July. That same period in 2021 was $166/T & $218/T so of course their earnings will be substantially higher, even though their unit costs have increased by 25% over that time while their tonnages have remained almost static at 327MT shipped 2019 vs expected 320-325MT shipped 2021.

However, that doesn't alter the fact they could have made several billion more had they had sufficient staff on site. Which they have admitted they don't have, as have BHP. If SOPS were to be believed, there wouldn't be a labour shortage in WA as they can handle everything they need to, in-house.

Evidence across a range of industries in WA shows that to be false.

EDIT:
And NSW now has a 14-day rolling average case # below 400 being only 384 / day yet continue to be held in the "Extreme Risk" category for WA while even if the ACT records zero cases today, they would still be above the 'magic 500' when adjusted for population, while WA keeps them in only the "Medium Risk" category. But of course it's based on "health advice". :yuk:

havick 23rd Oct 2021 22:51


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 11131357)
I don't think you can compare their finances from 2019 to 2021 and say they Covid hasn't caused an issue, which was the point of my comment. In January 2019, the ore price was around $75/T for most of the month, before finishing at $117/T in July. That same period in 2021 was $166/T & $218/T so of course their earnings will be substantially higher, even though their unit costs have increased by 25% over that time while their tonnages have remained almost static at 327MT shipped 2019 vs expected 320-325MT shipped 2021.

However, that doesn't alter the fact they could have made several billion more had they had sufficient staff on site. Which they have admitted they don't have, as have BHP. If SOPS were to be believed, there wouldn't be a labour shortage in WA as they can handle everything they need to, in-house.

Evidence across a range of industries in WA shows that to be false.

EDIT:
And NSW now has a 14-day rolling average case # below 400 being only 384 / day yet continue to be held in the "Extreme Risk" category for WA while even if the ACT records zero cases today, they would still be above the 'magic 500' when adjusted for population, while WA keeps them in only the "Medium Risk" category. But of course it's based on "health advice". :yuk:

Thats the problem, the Ďadviceí is taken as gospel for ass covering from someone that has no skin in the game.

dr dre 23rd Oct 2021 23:07


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11131353)
31st first does for group 2 industry, say if they use AZ December 31st min 4 weeks maximum 12 for second dose which will be March then he is quoted in many statements that he will look at opening when 80% is reached.

AstraZeneca has already been phased out, itís all Pfizer and Moderna now with a shorter second dose interval. 80% will be reached early December, and 90% prior to yearís end. An apparent change in policy from the Health Minister yesterday, indicating a reopening plan to be announced prior to reaching the 80% target. Previously it was to be announced somewhere between 80-90%. Thatís was probably why the vaccine mandate for 75% of workers was bought in, to get the rates up quicker. If WA were truly blasť about reopening then theyíd hardly institute such a widespread mandate.


I want WA to remain closed I want those mines to keep
scaling back due labor shortages and I want to see WA wake up and get pi$$ed at each other when they see the rest of us living.
Criticise actions of governments all you want, but wishing the people of a place to suffer to prove a point is a bit demented.....

43Inches 23rd Oct 2021 23:15

While there is some squeeze on workforce, most is of Rios creation with the move to more contracted work (2016) in lieu of full time in house due to 'volatile ore prices'. There is also a major weather event thrown in which disrupted ports and and operations during the period. Rio is also operating at close to maximum capacity anyway until Koodaideri comes on line, which is fairly soon, that will add another 40 MgT of ore capability. Outside of that the wild iron ore prices are probably thanks to covid.

With regard to crews infuriated in WA. Us pilots in Victoria and NSW have been in lockdown and more or less permanent stand down, so while there is a little bit of sympathy for the plight of the few QF pilots that can't work or have to quarantine a while I assume still being paid. Many, if not most on the East coast have been existing on dole level income for close to 2 years, that's airlines domestic, long haul, short haul, regional, GA, even private pilots could not fly in Melbourne, we don't even have the option to fly and then quarantine. If you are an intrastate pilot in WA or any other state based worker you are probably working with reasonable income, and have been the whole pandemic, which I am happy for them.

If you choose to live in a state with known isolationist policies, times will happen when you are isolated from the world. The locals have chosen this path, they set a clear mandate to the government in the election.

The question is in a few years time when the state pushes for independence, will you stick with the republic of McGowan or move back to the Kingdom of Morrison. :E

KRviator 23rd Oct 2021 23:34


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 11131375)
Criticise actions of governments all you want, but wishing the people of a place to suffer to prove a point is a bit demented.....

I don't think so in the slightest. You reap what you sow, and for such a large percentage of the WA population to vote for McGowan on the basis of his state border policies to the detriment of the rest of the country, to me, says they deserve everything that comes their way.

How many hundreds of thousands of people have suffered as a result of WA's border policies? As a result of Queensland's? Take a look at the hundreds of media reports about people being detained in hotel quarantine while their parent dies only a mile or two away, parents being told they cannot enter the hospital to see their child undergoing critical treatment as they're from NSW and an unelected official declared an entire state a Covid Hotspot or health staff being told they'll not be allowed to leave their home if they go to work across the border as they'll need to quarantine (endlessly) on their return. So no, I don't think wishing ill will on a state that does that is out of line - for the simple reason they have done it to everyone else - and keep right on doing it!


Originally Posted by 43I
While there is some squeeze on workforce, most is of Rios creation with the move to more contracted work (2016) in lieu of full time in house due to 'volatile ore prices'. There is also a major weather event thrown in which disrupted ports and and operations during the period. Rio is also operating at close to maximum capacity anyway until Koodaideri comes on line, which is fairly soon, that will add another 40 MgT of ore capability.

You need to stop focussing on Rio Tinto and consider the broader context, I used Rio as they were the first ones out of the gate to complain about the worker shortage. Fast forward a few days and BHP did the same, yet you've not commented on them at all. Or the cafe's who are short of chefs, the c0ckies who need workers for the harvest or the pubs up north who don't have backpackers pulling beers.

43Inches 23rd Oct 2021 23:43

I never said there was no worker shortage, I was stating just that Rio is a bad example of doing badly in covid. BHP the same.

We (Melbourne) just opened up here, so many shops are just happy to see customers let alone worry about staff, however we are still short staffed here as well as many casuals laid off have become used to sitting around or moved into other occupations. Many local larger shops are taking walk in applications as net based recruiting is not gathering enough. So it's not just a WA issue at the moment. You would think from all the moaning that people would be dying for work, but it's not really showing up in applicants for the basic stuff with local supermarkets in large suburbs still struggling to get staff. Local managers asking staff if they have any kids or friends etc that need work, different from a few years ago where you had to take a job in a burb 20 km away to begin.

I won't be surprised if Melbourne in particular starts to see logistics issues with lack of delivery drivers leading to pay and condition pushes, like in the UK. A lot of supermarkets are already having delivery issues with congested distribution centers, and shelves lacking some goods. This is in part due to covid hitting a couple of major distribution hubs, but is also due to lack of drivers.

PS Auspost and most other delivery services are screwed here, it takes a week plus to get things sent across the city, and don't bother paying the extra for 'express' it gets there at the same time. It's going to totally implode by Christmas.

SixDemonBag 24th Oct 2021 01:11

There will be a lot of relief from shops re-opening. The sky wonít fall. Calm down

Clare Prop 24th Oct 2021 02:24


Originally Posted by Chad Gates (Post 11130934)

Clare

Is it true you believe that only West Australians that support MM should be able to post on this board?

I have never posted any such thing and I'm not a supporter of him myself, I think he is a one trick pony with far too much power. I live in the electorate that had to put up with his "Walter Mitty" pal Barry Urban, I have no time for any of them.

I have never posted that I am a fan of closed borders, I am one of many who had to watch a parent die on Facetime and attend a Youtube funeral, so you can wind your neck in there.

There are no politicians or political parties that give a toss about small aviation businesses or deserve out support, so we actually get on with our lives despite whatever the governments throw at us; my aviation business has been trading steadily throughout the pandemic, keeping GA props turning.

There really are some posters here who are full of hatred they decide to label 2.5 million people as "bogans" and seem to really want us to have the virus here because apparently we deserve it for having a premier that they don't like. It's pathetic to watch these bitter and twisted people go on and on.

Criticise McGowan all you like but ridiculing a state full of people just makes you look like a stupid bully. FWIW the tide does seem to be turning against him.

Chad Gates 24th Oct 2021 03:08

Fair enough I guess Clare. Might be easier to understand your support of a statement, if you only quote the statement and not the whole post. Especially when you are quoting someone like SOPS, as we know he’s a myopic MM lover.

SOPS 24th Oct 2021 03:21


Originally Posted by Chad Gates (Post 11131412)
Fair enough I guess Clare. Might be easier to understand your support of a statement, if you only quote the statement and not the whole post. Especially when you are quoting someone like SOPS, as we know heís a myopic MM lover.

No Chad.. you know very little actually. I like Clare, get sick of people that seem to want us overrun we Covid because they donít like our Premier. Please donít assume things.

KRviator 24th Oct 2021 03:55


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 11131413)
No Chad.. you know very little actually. I like Clare, get sick of people that seem to want us overrun we Covid because they donít like our Premier. Please donít assume things.

"Overrun with Covid"...Puh-lease. You're more melodramatic than Anna-Stayaway and her "thousands will die each month if we open the border" rubbish.

YOUR CHO - not NSW's, not Qld's, and not whoever is advising ScoMo - testified under oath that the WA health system is capable of managing 500 new cases per day or 5,000 total cases.

IF that is true, then on what grounds does WA continue to exclude 2/3rds of the country from the state based on nothing more than the state in which they live? To the untrained eye, that's against s.117 of the Constitution. If it were based on a defined risk, I'd have no problem with it, nor any leg on which to stand. However, I didn't stand up in court and say "We can manage 5,000 cases". Dr Andy Robertson did.

Originally Posted by The Clive Palmer Trial
Dr Robertson estimates that for 100 new cases per day (or 1,000 active cases), 130 hospital beds and 25 ICU beds would be required, and 14 deaths expected; while for 500 new cases per day (or 5,000 active cases), 650 hospital beds and 124 ICU beds would be required, and 70 deaths expected. These numbers would remain within the capacity of the Western Australian health system to manage, but would substantially increase the burden upon the health system.

So, if the WA health system can manage with upto 500 new cases per day, is it really fair or just to deny 2/3rds of the population entry to Western Australia based on nothing more than their state of residence?

Unless there's something more at play...


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