Survival does not equal recovery. It’s like saying you survived a car crash but you may never recover from the injuries sustained. Lots of info around long COVID. You’re about 12 months behind on the whole debate.

Meanwhile, in the rest of Australia, no one gives a flying f*ck what the media in WA thinks!

So if half the population get covid, that's 13 million, only one percent will not recover. Thats ok then isn't it, only 130,000 deaths.

Unfortunately the uneducated fools can't even do the math with Australia currently running at about 2.5% death rate. Which would boost that number to 325,000... but of course they don't give a dam about other people as long as it's not them. 932 deaths vs 36,000 cases equals about 2.6% death rate, to equate that to your daily life that's one 1 in 40 chance of dieing from it. Long covid being about 15% which means your taxes would have to foot long term medicare and disability payments for another 2 million possibly for the rest of their life span. And the possible loss of their productivity, adds up to some big economic downsides.

Also on the last point, WA has proven that with no virus they are doing pretty well economically with numbers all up on 2019. Compare that to the UK where GDP is still almost double figures in the red from 2019 figures.

Perhaps WA does not care what the rest of Australia ( or should that be Sydney) thinks?
As this continues…

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...115e8339a1bac6

Depending on your age, of course…

The entire way Australia has dealt with this is an absolute joke to the world. Mind you that’s been said on here enough. A quick google and I can’t seem to find another first world nation that has screwed it up so badly.

It really seems to be pretty simple looking at the rest of the first world, vaccinations high, borders open. That’s international borders! Whilst Australia cannot even keep domestic borders open, what a joke.

Canada announces easing of travel from the 9th, USA is fairly free, UK, Europe. In Asia Singapore is working hard to open. All this time Australia goes backwards, industry is decimated and people seriously over it.

As we all know the biggest issue is zero unity in the country, zero leadership and a media that blows it all sideways.

Watch the rest of the world slowly get back to normal, I honestly even fear for domestic Christmas holidays in Straya!

Hang on, what happened to Australia being great and UK being bad?

That changed in the second quarter of this year.

it is clear that up to March our response had been - through good geographic fortune and brutal border policies - successful and we enjoyed a standard of life and freedoms much of the rest of the world envied. The economy was recovering and we watched as the rest of the world had harder longer lockdowns, mass death and economic hits.

But by March steadily people in many of the worst hit western countries had rolled up their sleeves and got jabbed. Meanwhile we suffered from mixed messaging about what was safe, bungled orders became apparent, and fatally were told vaccination was not a race. And then came delta.

I would rather be in the UK now than here.

Yes the population will never get anywhere if they keep regurgitating Sky News headlines and US Republican party crap that has been disproved and just makes you look stupid and uneducated over and over.

I really hope you are joking on that front, you'd have to be mildly insane to want to even visit the UK right now, things are pretty dire over there. I don't mean just the Covid issues, everything from crime to unemployment to well, yes, the risk of getting covid. The UK has the double wham of dealing with brexit and covid at the same time and things are not going well.

When you state that you make a joke of yourself, no one outside of Australia is caring about how Australia handles it because most of them have been inundated with Covid and are more worried about fighting. I agree Scomo has handled this incredibly badly, but due to some state premier diligence and the lockdowns working we are one of the few Western nations with a positive GDP from 2019. There is one thing that is certain, the countries that have had large spread of covid in the community have had massive economic downturns as a result. France, Germany, USA all sit at -3% or worse than 2019 figures, UK is clawing back some losses at -8%. If the virus had not been mishandled by Sydney playing politics we'd be up 1-2% by now. China and India are positive, but they are major developing nations, so they just burn through peasants to go forward, but they are still way down on pre-2020 expansion rates.

What load of bollocks. I have spoken to plenty of people overseas who are interested and that has not really changed. But now they are interested in the "what the #$%$ happened to you guys?" sense. Australia's current situation and outbreak(s) is in the news regularly across three continents maybe more.

No I'm not joking. Maybe I am insane as I was in the UK just 10 days ago.

Not worked up at all, I'm quite happy sitting with nothing much to do but debate Covid misinformation, one of the side products of lockdown. I figure the longer people perpetuate moronic ideas that disuade people from just getting out and getting vaccinated we will stay in lockdown even longer.

Your statement of things have all been covered in this thread, probably numerous times and are well debunked by science and critical research.

So yes I have reached the stage where I just say it's stupid to just regurgitate it over and over.

Yes.

Immunity in medical terms is not complete protection from the virus, it just means your body has the ability to fight the virus.

Almost all the current vaccines have been proven to reduce severity of symptoms of Covid by a factor of 90% reducing the death rate significantly among affected.

Due to the high replication rate of the virus, especially delta strain, live virus can still be shed and yes a person may still have active infection along with being infectious to others.

That is a dumbed down wording of immunity. Protection does not mean, does not get, in actuality you must be infected first for your immune system to respond to the threat and deal with it.

If it was to say provides "complete" protection then you might consider that as the immunity you are searching for. Terms like you "can" be exposed and not get infected is a way of saying in most cases yes you wont notice you were exposed to a virus. Goverment agencies use wording like that to ensure people don't pick at the edges. Same way your antibacterial wipes say they protect vs 99.9% of bacteria. You will always get sick from the .1% if you challenge it in court.

If the vaccine removes 90% of severe symptoms vs a non vaccinated I would say it offers protection from that disease, just not "complete" protection.

Nice play of semantics, but from your own link - Immunization: A process by which a person becomes protected against a disease through vaccination. This term is often used interchangeably with vaccination or inoculation.

You'd also better tell the Federal Gov health department to change their wording

This was my point a way back, should we really be calling it a vaccine. In our aviation world we do all we can to remove ambiguity, for example we don't use runway 13 and 31, vertical distance in feet, horizontal distance in metres.

Most of us pre Covid understood a vaccine meant immunity, I can't be infected. Whilst that may be the case for some vaccines it isn't for corona viruses.

So why does WA carry on with countless news articles about the rest of Australia and the COVID situation?

My only hope is that the bad news from NSW/VIC spurs the WA population into vaccination because something needs to be done about that. The hermit nation has created a lacklustre approach to the jab and a general feeling that “it can’t happen here”. It can, and it will.

You might want to check with Moorabbin on that one.

I think this all was evident around the Flu vaccine and the constant reminder it was there to reduce symptoms not prevent it.

For those spruiking the good economy of Australia during CoVID, here are the USA figures.

Per capita
2021* 68,308.97 estimated
2020 63,415.99
2019 65,253.52

To the person saying Australia GDP has been going up through CoVID, the facts say differently.

In billions of $
2020 1,359.33$
​​​​2019 1,391.54$

Looks like a drop to me

Yes I agree with you, but does it remove ambiguity. A good way to find out would be to ask the israelis. Are you immune to Covid-19. Well No but I've been vaccinated as opposed to Yes I have been vaccinated.

That's why the US GDP figures are growing at such a rate. $20,000 USD per person. Australia in comparison is $11,000 AUD per person half what the US is spending, and as I said earlier the government don't want to spend more because inflation is already creeping up due to us not being in that bad position.

Australias current financial support costs, and that $41bil extra hasn't been used yet.

You might want to add 2021 figures to that.

2021* 1,617.54$

Suddenly looks positive again...

You obviously haven’t been out of AuSTrayaTraz in sometime. I can tell you what people think when they know the truth of what’s happening on the prison island. You can’t travel domestically, city lockdowns, approvals required to leave, you can’t get back if just a general citizen without mega cost, 14 day quarantine with no end in sight.

I do hate to admit it, it is Australia that is the joke and an embarrassment on the world stage.

Lets just hope vaccinations go crazy, it is the only hope. Will there be domestic travel by Christmas?

Then you have not followed any of this thread or have researched other vaccines. Just roll back to our ADE discussion, which relates to a number of vaccines in the past that have caused deaths. You don't hear about them because in sheltered Australia we rarely get viruses of much mass concern.

Half my family and numerous friends live overseas. I'm an immigrant to Australia so a lot of extended family in foreign nations, including the USA, UK and others less fortunate like India. Most of their news is similar crud to here, trying to get others to vaccinate so normal life can return etc etc.

What is the currency your quoting those per capita GDP numbers in please? And what is your source for this data please?

Couldn't help but notice that you provided a 2021 estimate for the US GDP per capita numbers but haven't provided a 2021 estimate for the Australian GDP numbers. Any particular reason for that?

Just glanced at the ABC news channel - are the spin doctors working overtime or am I just too sensitive?

Reporting "Victoria has 29 new cases, none in quarantine".

Is that the same as "Victoria has 29 new cases, all in the community"?

Trying to soften the blow/misdirect the masses, cases in quarantine of interest, cases in the community a disaster.

Wonder if the ABC just pulled the statement directly from Chairman Dan's propaganda division or massaged the message themselves?

I suggest you read up on what propaganda is, most of what ABC does is truthful, just presented very badly.

You watch the likes of Fox and Sky News and they basically twist any truth to suit the right wing agenda. I recall when vaccine rollout was slow both channels blatantly blamed the states for slow rollout, when it had nothing to do with the states. They use large screaming headlines that have little to do with the subject matter and clarify the truth in the fine print, but nobody usually gets to that part of the drivel. Under test some of what they say is true, but twisted in angle, which is exactly what propaganda is. BTW Australia does not blanket ban political propaganda, they reserved the right to not include that ban in our human rights agreement, so yes be very wary of how news and opinion pieces are angled here. Like seen on this forum, most people can regurgitate the rubbish spewed forth in headlines and catch phrases but can't substantiate why, that's when you know you've been fooled.

It’s your right not to get vaccinated just accept the time is coming when lockdowns will end and you might not be able to do your job , attend sports events or go to your favourite restaurant. No overseas travel and some people may choose to keep their distance . Very little sympathy from health care workers if your sick , best to have private health insurance . It’s a choice and choices have consequences.

Because I was primarily just proving that Australias GDP did drop contrary to what one poster said. The US data was on my screen at the time and data for the Australian numbers were not.
On looking just then the projections for 2021 are similar percentage wise to the USA. That could be revised if the on again off again lock down yoyo persists.

Okey doke, thank you.

So, what source are you using? And are you converting those US GDP per capita numbers into AUD?

Separately, I can't recall anyone saying that Australia's economy didn't shrink during 2020. What others have said, quite correctly, is that in Q1-21 the economy had recovered such that it was larger than Q4-19. I'm pretty sure that that was unique amongst developed economies.

If you are referring to my posts, re-read, they state that Australia is above where it was prior to covid, not that it didn't drop during the pandemic. Also I clearly showed why the US GDP is so high, with $20,000 USD per person in the US so far handed out in pure covid stimulus. Australia has handed out less than half of that with about $11,000 AUD per person in stimulus/assistance. When you look at the big picture, Australia has done much better economically than the US. You have to also throw in that Australia started a trade war with China over the whole cause of covid, where they have blocked a number of luxury imports and beef, which the US picked up the slack on and provided to china. So our economy could easily have been another few % points higher if that trade was maintained.

In the UK economic recovery is being stifled by a lack of workers, partly because of brexit, but a larger cause is isolating workers due to the large number of infections. Education is still down on attendance for the same reason, and fear as well to re-enter society for fear of more waves. This has hit GDP significantly.

I was listening to RT’s boom bust show yesterday and they were saying the UK economy was going great..??

having said that, the city of London and its financial district and the surrounding suburbs are a completely different planet than the rest of the UK

And there’s your first mistake....

Old Rope, Fresh Perspective
 

Politicians have abdicated responsibility for this Covid crisis
If a foreign power were causing damage on this scale we would regard it as an act of war, and deaths in defence of the country would become acceptable again.Read in The Australian: https://apple.news/AJ_imuxadTJq1Bg2aN93cLg



Politicians have abdicated responsibility for this Covid crisis


By Steve Waterson
12:00AM AUGUST 07, 2021

Well, that was worth waiting for. Finally a tiny glimpse of the modelling that has underpinned government decision-making on our Covid response, and very convincing it is too. And unbelievably, literally unbelievably, precise.

Let’s not go through the various conditional predictions of the virus’s impact, especially the “worst-case” scenario, which happily generates a number far short of “everybody dies”, which I would regard as the worst case.

Instead here’s what the Doherty Institute says could happen if we suffered a six-month uncontrolled outbreak with only 60 per cent of the population vaccinated: there would be 737,971 infections and 5294 deaths. Note the super-scientific accuracy: not 737,970 or 737,972 infections; why, that would just be sloppy guesswork.

I’m teasing, of course (it’s one of the few pleasures not yet forbidden in these joyless times), and have no doubt the statisticians are doing their very best with the data; so let’s assume they’re correct that almost three-quarters of a million would be infected, of whom 5000 would die.

Many of us in the anti-lockdown corner are asked how many lives we would sacrifice to see the country open up again, our accusers triumphantly certain there is no decent answer because, as the NSW Premier told us in May, “no death is acceptable”.

She and her interstate counterparts would rather smash our lives and livelihoods in pursuit of their ridiculous, hubristic ambition.

If a foreign power were causing damage on this scale we would regard it as an act of war, when deaths in defence of the country would become acceptable again.

Perhaps we should bite the bullet and say 5000 predominantly old people taken prematurely is a sad but tolerable price to pay for the restoration of our freedoms and the repair of our society – as long as it’s not my precious grandparents. Oh wait, mine have already died of old age, like all my ancestors since humans first wandered out of the African Rift Valley. It happens a lot, I understand. And by the way, those 5000 projected deaths assume we could find no other way of protecting the vulnerable, which is hard to believe.

The Prime Minister’s proud boast is that our closed borders and hyper vigilance have “saved 30,000 lives” since the start of the epidemic last year. More unverifiable modelling; but again, let’s assume he’s right. I wonder how many of the saved have succumbed to other ailments in that time; or will next week’s census reveal a Cocoon-like bubble of healthy nonagenarians, 30,000 strong, laughing at Covid and death in all its other guises?

At best, we’ve dragged their lives out for a few more lonely months sequestered from their families, just as we’ve kicked the whole pandemic a little way down the road, at an almost inconceivable cost. As our leaders and their worker bees finesse their incarceration strategy, in the background the cries of misery grow louder.

The politicians look on, stern-faced and witless, bleating their platitudes about feeling our pain, and urging us to get vaccinated as the only way to escape the shackles on our lives, as though they had nothing to do with the sinister emergency powers they have granted themselves and aimed against us. “A surge in cases has closed restaurants”; “the latest outbreak means tradesmen can’t go to work”; “thanks to some selfish cab driver we must stay at home for the next month”.

No, ladies and gentlemen, the virus hasn’t done this to us; you have, cosy in your luxurious offices with your index-linked financial cushions, surrounded by sycophants and shoving people around like demented puppetmasters.

It may come as a shock to those snorting and gobbling at the trough of public money, but not everyone makes their living by opening a spreadsheet on a laptop, reaching out to a stakeholder and unmuting themselves on a Zoom call.

There are people who pay taxes (rather than recycle them) by travelling every day to places where they make actual things with their hands, who build home offices rather than work from them.

Some then have the audacity to consider their manual or menial work essential, as though they are under some obligation to put food on the table for their families.

And these ungrateful wretches, instead of praising the wisdom of their superiors who imprison them in their unfashionable suburbs, have the nerve to march in the streets in complaint, thousands of people engaged in reckless superspreader events that have led to a massive zero new infections.

“How sharper than a serpent’s tooth it is to have a thankless child!” wails Shakespeare’s King Lear. Echoing him, our politicians and bureaucrats, parents to their infantilised population, are “disgusted” (NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian) with these “filthy” (NSW Deputy Police Commissioner Gary Worboys) “boofheads” (NSW Police Minister David Elliot), “wankers” (NT Chief Minister Michael Gunner) and “hooligans, dropkicks” (WA Premier Mark McGowan). Treasure the eloquent, statesmanlike rhetoric of these latter-day Ciceros; that’s the way to bring the people along with you in difficult times.

Instead they govern by regulations that grow daily more ridiculous. Sit down to drink, but stand up near a park bench; exercise, but don’t rest; go shopping but don’t browse, even though the sadists at Coles have moved everything you wanted into different aisles; under no circumstances talk to anyone you know, despite the masks that afford magic protection from nanometre Covid dust; the list is a never-ending carousel of hilarity.

The latest inanity from the future governor of Queensland (remember her, the one who did more than anyone else to dissuade people from receiving the AstraZeneca vaccine?) is to warn against online shopping.

“Do you need those people out in the community delivering packages and things?” she asks. No, your excellency, of course not, let them park their vans and bikes and get a well-paid, non-executive board position like your pals do.

What begins as absurdity soon turns dark. In NSW you must carry evidence of your address at all times when outside your home, and produce it to a police officer – “Papers please!” – on demand. You must carry a mask on your person, even to walk the dog around the block. Cold War Berlin-style police checkpoints have appeared on our streets to confirm cars are within 10km of their homes, and their occupants not intending to protest against their rulers. The army is on patrol in areas whose citizens are often refugees from regimes where camouflage battle-dress is rarely a welcome sight.

Do Western concepts of freedom no longer matter in Australia? Is it a trivial matter that we are commanded not to leave our homes? Does it seriously not bother anyone in office that we are being compared – accurately – to North Korea in our legislated refusal to allow our citizens to leave the country, or overseas Australians to return? This is very bad company we find ourselves in.

The politicians say they’re faced with tough decisions, but they’re not making decisions at all. They defend their abdication of responsibility by loftily declaring they are acting on the health advice they receive. They don’t evaluate that advice, mind, they simply follow it.

And it leads always to the same destination: lockdown. It’s “horrible”, Berejiklian said this week, “but we know we have no option”. In Victoria, Premier Daniel Andrews parrots her: “There are no alternatives to lockdown”, he said on Thursday. Unless of course you don’t order a lockdown, which I think does qualify as an option, and a much more appealing one.

Lockdowns certainly work in the crudest sense, in that by isolating people you limit viral transmission, but that’s not the point.

It’s the cost-benefit analysis that’s missing, absent from the moment our governments panicked and abandoned our sensible national pandemic plan to follow the brutes of Communist China into a policy of dystopian oppression, to “keep us safe”.

Let’s turn the acceptable casualty question around and direct it to our leaders: how many fruitful young lives are you happy to waste to keep those Covid numbers low?

How many small businesses are you ready to see disappear? How many suicides will you tolerate? How many bankruptcies? How many children should forgo their formative primary education and socialisation? How many deaths from other untreated illness are acceptable to you?

How much sorrow are you willing to impose on your subjects? How many grief-stricken families must bury parents and children without ceremony, like backyard pets? How many tears will soften your stony, self-righteous hearts?

Whether born of stupidity or callousness, the effect of our current aimless course is the same. State against state, city against country, suburb against suburb, office worker against tradesman, old against young, vaccinated against unvaccinated: it is a heartless, divisive and dehumanising policy. And worse, it doesn’t work.

The very people we elect to safeguard our freedoms are shredding them, causing fractures in society that may never be healed.

Surely there are politicians in every party who are silently appalled by this mounting despair and devastation. If their leaders cannot find a path out of this madness, perhaps those others should speak up and think about taking the reins, before the electorate’s frustration turns to fury.




Shared from Apple News

https://www.theguardian.com/business...id-freedom-day

This article highlights a few issues with the UK economy, notably workforce and inflation risks with treasury stimulus mostly driving recovery over opening the community up. An interesting note was US inflation has crept up to above 5% due to them printing endless money.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-58014256

More on job vacancy concerns.

Gladys accused of Claytons of going to soft to slowly now over 300, Dan going Vodka has 29 all in the community.
Good one Dan and no ring of steel. Why? It's to expensive and not enough cops to police it.
From lockdown 5, to lockdown lite, to lockdown 6. That's like taking the foot of the accelerator.
Unless the traces can track like buggery, this lockdown will be extended. Hoover Dam crack discovered
more sticky tape required.

From an aviation point of view come October flights crews will be struggling to stay current again.

Well bloody said!

Fine until the end where it goes on about freedoms, suicides and bankruptcies, which we have done to death debunking as completely fake news. Just more emotive crap with no baseline information, sounds good to all those that want confirmation bias that they are right.

Just get vaccinated and get on with it.

The virus is not a foreign power, the economy was doing fine until NSW screwed the containment.

Western concepts of freedom are being followed to the letter, lockdown and quarantine during a health emergency is within international human rights legislation.

People writing this crap just get more stupid people on side who don't follow the rules and spread it further, extending our lockdowns.

Etc etc etc....

Hear hear! 👏

“Cost/benefit analysis”, extremely relevant IMO….

Actually you can attend funerals and weddings via the internet now, might not be ideal but like everything else doing well you can do it therefore not missing any ceremony.

So lockdown pits young against old, but the statement earlier of ;

Those oldies will just accept the young'ns telling them to move on and be turned into biscuits.

Sorry but this guy has written complete BS.