Because there was nothing noble about it, they were doing their job, no different to your pilots returning Australians. Have we forgotten already thousands were infected, hundreds died,

We in Australia have been lucky, the numbers are much smaller compared to the UK. all eyes are on the UK to see how that works out. We don't deny there will come a time to open up.

What do I want, absolutely nothing. I would like Australians to be aware that not everything is as it seems, How many of us could tell you how many pilots are still stood down, do they even care. When our politicians (like scomo did) and our CMO's say we are ready, we are prepared for this, that we are not and when that critical moment arrives, that will become painfully obvious.

Because there is no such thing as VADE, someone added the V to ADE to make it seem like vaccines are causing this (scaremongering) when its just Antibodies in general, whether they be a result of previous infection or vaccine response.

When I mentioned earlier that Australia will open up at years end, this was based on two things.

One, vaccination levels will reach an acceptable point to try this and two; The level of discontent at lockdowns or lockdown fatigue will have reached a point that governments will start to become wary of using this method. Both restlessness and economic factors will push the second point more and more the longer this continues. People do not become accustomed to lack of freedoms, they simmer until burn out, and no government wants to get there. Hence why brits opened up.

This all of course depends on Covid not going nuclear and becoming more deadly, ADE and whatever else nature can muster.

I'm actually really confused about what you're talking about here. Don't know why you're so vague. Your daughters are in the medical field and worked in hospitals on the frontline? They can't be vaccinated even though working on the frontline, why? Bugout plan? What are you on about!?

Almost 300 cases in NSW today. What a monumental **** up by the NSW government. All because they were too smug to lock it down earlier.

I didn't think it was all that vague, but if your from northern QLD, I'll assume you weren't all that in touch with what happened in VIC at the time.
I didn't say "My Daughters" somebody else did.
It was in the time before the vaccine.
There are issues around being vaccinated once you have been/are infected. I don't know enough about it myself.
Bugout Plan, we have made the decision not to become infected a second time, vaccinated or not, In other words they won't be staff at all, if and when that time comes.

You can work out for yourself what the likely consequences of that are where there are significant staff numbers having made the same decision.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...05-p58gb9.html

Scomo and Hunt are pair of mucking fuppets, what a total pisspoor move.

I don't think there is any issues with vaccination post exposure, however the general restriction is a 3 month wait prior to allow the more vulnerable non exposed to get vaccinated first. Exposure does grant some immunity, but it seems as though it drops off relatively fast WRT covid.

The first I heard of VADE was listening to the inventor of mRNA technology, Dr Robert Malone who has worked in vaccine development for decades, saying the mRNA vaccinated patients with huge viral loads starting to show up around the world are early hallmarks of VADE..he stressed of course that it’s too early to tell definitively yet.

He’s hardly been in step with the broad medical community recently.
That in itself doesn’t mean he’s wrong, but there are enough red flags to treat his claims with a healthy degree of scrutiny and scepticism.

Except he’s not the ‘inventor’.
https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd
And spare me the ‘who fact checks the fact checkers’ retort that seems to be the only line conspiracy theorists are able to conjure up.

Malone wasn’t the inventor of mRNA, as he claims, merely worked on the project, the credit for “inventing mRNA” technology is given to others. He is seen in the scientific community as an outlier and a quack who has spread anti-vax misinformation. Either way his claims about ADE - Antibody Dependent Enhancement - are misleading and not backed by evidence:

COVID-19 vaccines effectively prevent severe disease; haven’t shown signs of antibody-dependent enhancement as claimed by Robert Malone

But the most damning critique is where did he go to make these claims? The podcast of Steve Bannon, the Trump boosting conspiracy troll.

Where is the reporting of these "mRNA vaccinated patients with huge viral loads"?

I have another Wiki reference for this discussion:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law

The use of the word "huge" is probably just a hyperbole overcome by cognitive lassitude.

What the not yet peer reviewed studies show are that in communities with very high cases of Delta, vaccinated people who have had breakthrough infections of Delta exhibit similar viral loads to unvaccinated people. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....31.21261387v1

Interesting, but nothing overly against the flow in that I'd say. If you get infected (and the chances are very low) you can infect others. Might be more transmissible than previously expected though. Probably why the CDC has recommended masks for vaxed folk too.

Very apt. Straight to the pool room alongside the well venerated Dunning Kruger.

The PM about to speak again after another cabinet meeting. I don't wreken will will see 70% never mind 80% vaxed, just maybe, they discussed lowering these
numbers. Just guessing as we need to reach something tangible. You get this feeling that the exit strategy will change on a week to week basis.

Dam he just spoke still 70%. Still a long long way to freedom.

So, bullsh^t, in lay terms.

Did you look at the sample size that they were working with for that study? An initial cohort of 291 samples with a lot of exclusions along the way.

The small sample size aside, the fundamental problem with that study is that they are trying to use threshold cycle (Ct) values from PCR testing to determine viral load. You can't use Ct values to determine, or even infer, viral load. As the CDC stated clearly here:

Similarly, they are then trying to take the inferred viral load to further infer infectiousness. As the CDC states at the same reference as above:

It will be interesting to see if that paper makes it way through the review process.

I wasn't supporting its rigour or methodology (I'll let the established process take care of that) rather I was just pointing out that even if does pass, its conclusions are not paradigm shifting, and hardly anything to base an alternative narrative on.

Yes another pointless meaningless national cabinet that is yet to achieve anything. One thing I agree with 80% will not be reached anytime soon to save a lot of Australians from financial ruin in many industry. However if our fearless leader Gladys has proven with her half assed lockdown the bloody vaccine works and seems to work well. The nay sayers can argue all they want the last 3 weeks have proved it. Glad I’m fully vaxed to be honest

Opinion stated as fact. Of course lockdowns work to slow the spread of disease.

Fair enough. Sadly, regardless of where that study lands you'll have some touting the no difference in viral load malarkey as proof that vaccines don't work.

I think the confusion arises out of what we non medical people believed a vaccination "was" prior to Covid and I'll put my hand up, I was one of them.
I understood once I had been vaccinated I couldn't be infected, at least a very low chance of that happening. It turns out as it applies to Corona Virus's, that's not the case, all it's going to do is reduce the severity, who knew.

As I read through previous posts here, there is still some that are of that same understanding. On that basis when someone says it doesn't work are they technically correct, just misguided by what it does.

Two Billion Dollars a week the lockdowns are costing, surely that would have justified a dedicated quarantine facility outside of our Capital Cities in each State, similar to Howard Springs.

opinion stated as fact

You forgot to add, they prolong them forever.

Will be interesting to see how she tries to respond tomorrow to the statements made from the CHO in Canberra this evening. Normally the stock
standard ‘We follow the medical advice’...Errrrr the big boss is calling for a circuit breaker Gladys...isn’t that not following the advice?

She did say cases will continue to deteriorate tomorrow, and as she had 18 hours of data already at today’s presser, seems like we are into the 300s now.

Dry timber

The consensus here in the West tonight, on all radio and TV news services seems to be, that unless Gladys does something fast and big, NSW will be locked out of WA until at least the end of the year.

Isn't the relative threat of infection following full vaccination a factor of the individual vaccine efficacy?? I've had the first AZ and decided to wait the whole 12 weeks to get the second one as it apparently pushes the efficacy to near 100% (certainly in the 90s, as opposed to the 70s I believe when 1 and 2 are 4 weeks apart).

I'm happy to be corrected as I am not a Doctor but that would suggest to me on logic that at 90%+ the chance of getting infected or getting infected and having ANY symptoms is pretty slim, whereas lower efficacy might mean infection and slight symptoms.

I watch Bill Maher's Real Time occasionally and a month or two ago he was tested for Covid and tested positive although he had been fully vaccinated (not sure which one or the time between the doses, but since he's in the US, I'd guess Moderna, Pfizer or J&J) and according to his Press Release, while the virus was present in his system, he had absolutely zero symptoms.

It's going to take WA that long to get your vaccination rates above the mythical 70/80% for Phase B?

Phew. You scared the absolute crap out of me Sops, I thought you were going to say this time next year.

Yes!, that's exactly the way I understand it works "today" we'll still become infected, we'll still be contagious albeit to a lesser degree, we just may not know it (assymptomatic). That still doesn't address any long term implications that infection may cause.

Reiterating prior to Covid, most thought as I did, vaccination prevents infection, which isn't the case for Corona Viruses. Sorta makes sense otherwise we should have eliminated the flu by now.

I think it was because of this statement from the Golden Girl who Does It Differently.


https://www.perthnow.com.au/news/cor...down-c-3607977

No, I think you’ll find it is fact stated as fact:

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=3616969

Are you seriously suggesting that lockdowns do not reduce the spread of a virus within a community?

And if the mindset behind publishing that article is to be understood, it shows WA likely has no intention of honouring the so-called "fully agreed" National Cabinet Phase B. Th goal of which is to

That leaves vaccination, however, if/when NSW makes the target and still has cases, then what? I'll stake a carton of beer that irrespective of the actual vaccination %-age above target, case numbers or hospitalizations, the borders won't reopen so long as there is community transmission in NSW.

Restrictions easing on vaccinated residents, which could include.....

That would be all of them would it not.

Actually no, the National Roadmap does include lockdowns in Phase B, and also in Phase C for specific locations in extreme circumstances. There’s no conflict between what the Federal government and the WA government have said regarding the roadmap.

Yes, for sure, I think that if you're of a certain age you might remember getting the oral polio vaccination and the tuberculosis BCG vaccination as a kid and associating that with essentially zero cases of either. Or if you've got kids of your own, associating the MMR or MMRV vaccines with essentially zero cases of any of measles, mumps, rubella or chicken pox (Varicella).

One of the big differences, of course, is that none of those vaccines or our experience of them was during a pandemic, where the targeted disease was prevalent.

Interestingly or otherwise, one of the hitherto most commonly received vaccinations is for seasonal flu. The purpose of that vaccine is not to stop infection, it is to stop an infection manifesting as a serious illness. People would sometimes get crook from an influenza infection after being vaccinated against the seasonal flu but would not be perturbed because the vaccine prevented the serious illness that is properly associated with the flu. Most people would shrug the mild presentation off as a cold. And no one got bent out of shape about it because there was no associated flu test to demonstrate that despite being vaccinated against the flu you were in fact infected by it.

That's why understanding the efficacy end point is important. What you want from a vaccine is for it to condition your immune system such that when you are infected you don't become seriously ill, don't need to be hospitalised, don't need to be admitted to ICU and don't subsequently die. Ideally it should also reduce your ability to transmit the disease if you do become infected but frankly if the vaccine is efficacious at preventing serious illness AND you have a good uptake of the vaccine in the population, forward transmission isn't as much of a concern.

And what we are seeing in the data out of places like Israel is that the vaccines are reducing hospitalisations, ICU admissions and deaths by an order of magnitude (that is, by around 90 percent).

From the UK using up to date data....
"Although individuals may not develop symptoms of COVID-19 after vaccination, it is possible that they could still be infected with the virus and could transmit to others. Understanding how effective vaccines are at preventing infection is therefore important to predict the likely impact of the vaccination programme on the wider population. In order to estimate vaccine effectiveness against infection, repeat asymptomatic testing of a defined cohort of individuals is required. Studies have now reported on vaccine effectiveness against infection in healthcare workers, care home residents and the general population. With the Pfizer-BioNTech, estimates of effectiveness against infection range from around 55 to 70%, with the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine they range from around 60 to 70% (5, 13, 14, 15). With 2 of 2 doses of either vaccine effectiveness against infection is estimated at around 65 to 90% (5, 13)."
Latest UK Vaccination Summary Report

I would never have thought our society would end up ruined, divided fighting each other and on our knees like this! Oddly enuf not from wars, not from some Virus that 99% of people who get it recover from or even from an alien attack but from an evil force right under our noses, the silent killers the corrupt grubby Govt hell bent on destruction!
We are doomed for the foreseeable future!