Mattyj.......'vaccines don't stop transmissions or infection' - except in those people where it did.

As for freedom is paid for in blood, are you prepared to put on the public record that that will be your blood? Ready to take one for the team, from the team? Or, is it easier for you to process your proposed solution if you don't know the names of the sacrificed, the family and friends of the sacrificed, their photos, their life plans, their wonderful contributions to our community, their beautiful potential........ you get the picture.

And what is this civilisation you talk of?

By the indications of sacrifices and such I suspect maybe he's a representative of the Mayans or Aztecs.

I pray my family is spared but you’re all just delaying the inevitable

This conversation is playing out in the medical world as we speak. There are quite a number of pre vaccine infected staff who don't want to be infected a second time, vaccinated or not.

As a consequence of that, there are just as many that don't want to be infected for the first time either, yet that is what's expected in a post vaccinated environment. It's a dilemma and one that's causing quite a bit of distress. For pilots, having personally witnessed a Long Covid Breathlessness episode, whilst you will be able to deny your way through a medical, the first time an episode occurs in the workplace will no doubt be the last time you fly. I can't see that being acceptable for a class one medical certificate.

What do we do, how do we address this before it happens.

A fair assessment of the reality of Covid IMHO.
CDC latest info states the fact that many vaccinated people are still carrying viral loads similar to unvaccinated and are able to transmit the virus.
If anyone doubts the CDC just look at real world data from Singapore,Israel,or the UK.
However the vaccines are still considered to be very effective at reducing serious disease.
So any argument about saving everyone from becoming infected by vaccinating is rapidly loosing credibility.
Ultimately for those that seek maximum disease protection go and get jabbed but don’t push that on others for the sake of humanity because it simply doesn’t work that way. At least according to the CDC and real world experience.
Best of luck to all.

Will people who aren't vaxed be able to post on here? Asking for a friend-)

No you need to be vaccinated to have an opinion! Get with the times...

What trickery is this....?

A QR Code for International Travel...!!

The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age today, Wednesday, are running with a story on the lines of;

If you are vaccinated and you are inked with your MyGov account, you (we), can fly international.

It's behind a Paywall (for me anyway), so I have no idea as to when this will happen or any nitty gritty details.

Maybe this is a ray of hope?

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fede...03-p58fda.html

The story covers the fledgling technological possibilities and that national cabinet is aiming to implement a plan for such proof of vaccination for quarantine free international travel. The story goes on to say that a few of the usual Lib Nat suspects are against making it a requirement for domestic travel, or at all elsewhere.

If such a scheme can work, you can bet that a couple of state Premiers will mandate it, meaning that it will become a defacto requirement.

The digital wallet technology is based on an ICAO development, and the government has already received help from Apple and Google to add such a proof of vax to their phone wallet apps.

All of this vaccine "privileges" means nothing as the vaccines are proven not to stop infection and spread of the virus. They do however significantly slow the rate of serious symptoms and death. The real message should be, "get vaccinated because in 6 months we will open up, if you don't have protection, too bad so sad..." If you are stupid enough to be a vaccine denier, you will be Darwinised for the greater community.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti...nt_enhancement

some new science for you vaccine sycophants.
if you aren’t familiar with this term, you will be soon.

I've asked the reluctant vaxers before and was ignored.

1) Did COVID cost you your job?

2) Have you taken money from the Government?

OK, here's a third question.

3) Will you vaccinate if it is a requirement to keep your flying position?

However, when Australia opens up and open up it must do eventually, an unvaccinated society will see strain and possible paralysis in areas of the medical system and economy. I can't see sensible alternatives to vaccinating society as quickly and as best you can and then opening up the borders gradually.

Wikipedia. Pfffft! Why do we even have The Lancet, or The New England Journal of Medicine, to name but two of the many actual sober medical journals. But at least Wiki does attach this caution:

This article needs more medical references for verification or relies too heavily on primary sources.(December 2020)

I do believe I answered it, but it may not have been you that asked, so...
1: In all but name. I have a job, but I cannot get there, and am on indefinite LWOP until McGoose reopens the border. Probably upto $120K in the hole so far since February 2020..
2: No. I have asked, and been told I am ineligible - despite 11 months off work last year and it'll probably be at least 6-7 months this year. Not entitled to so much as a brass razoo from anyone apparently.
3: Yes, though under protest. I am yet to be convinced even 80% of all eligible citizens vaccinated will be sufficient for McGoose to reopen WA to interstate travelers, however have scheduled our Pfizer vaccinations for later this week as I don't think we have a choice! We either reach the target as a nation, or we might as well subdivide Australia into the separate states for the foreseeable future.

So many people ragging on the Gladys approach. If they do go ahead with their plan to loosen restrictions without eliminating community transmission, it'll be a huge step moving forward in this country.

I have absolutely no issue with people choosing not to get vaccinated, however in a years time when you are suffering the after effects of the virus because the world moved on without you, please accept my tsk tsk... Similar to when a sad mother mourns the loss of her child to whooping cough, cause she thought the vaccine caused autism, sad but that gene pool probably was too dumb to survive. There is no need to sacrifice you or your loved ones, a simple jab will solve this, therefore it is not a sacrifice as the loss of life is avoidable, you just became a proof of Darwinism, by proving you were not intelligent enough to survive in the real world. A sacrifice would be a soldier giving their life to defend your freedoms.

Your job is in WA but you live in a state that is currently restricted under the border directions? Was there a pressing reason why, when there were no border restrictions earlier in the year, you didn’t move to WA?

Yes.

Extra characters to satisfy the forum software...

NSW will be the litmus test of whether suppression rather than elimination is possible, but it will be on its own. The other states are not going to budge on elimination for a very long time. I would guarantee that even if WA had 80% of 16+ vaccinated, McClown will lockdown at a single case in the community. He will shut the border to any state that has any community transmission. The population have been scared into total submission.

We are going to be a divided hermit nation for years to come.

I guarantee you this will be the last year of full lockdowns. Even WA will drop full restrictions either by end year or early next year. Vaccine targets are on track for mid summer and then Australians with or without vax will have no choice in whether they get exposed. The only reason for further lockdowns will be a more deadly strain resistant to vaccines. NSW is proving that vaxed population are dieing less if at all and as that proof grows, like the UK we will open.

For those of you that may not of heard it, the Western Australian Commissioner of Police was just interviewed on the radio. What he said.. without using these exact words.. but what he meant was…. Do not leave WA. I could shut us down to the rest of Australia in the next few hours, and you may not be allowed to come back to the state for months. He was warning people .. don’t go anywhere.

If you think lockdowns are over…. Think again.

Whilst I agree with the intent of your post, some of your points are flawed.
1. Suffering the effects of the virus because the world moved on.
We still don't know for sure yet if that will still be the case even though you were vaccinated.
2. A simple jab will solve this.
We don't know that yet, it may be the long term effect of the vaccine could be just as bad as the disease.
3. A soldier giving their life to defend your freedoms.
Historically both sides have that exact same argument, they can't both be right.

A fair assessment, which side will it be.

And there you have it, straight from the horses mouth, or close enough. We are One Nation, Under God....

Oh, wait...Wrong country...:ugh:

[QUOTE=43Inches;11089442]I have absolutely no issue with people choosing not to get vaccinated, .........

You should have left it at that.
The rest of your dummies versus smarties post is highly opinionated waffle of dubious value.

Most of the long term effects are caused by scarring or secondary infections caused by the virus. The vaccine is proven to reduce both these effects, so therefore yes, vaccines will heavily reduce your risk of long term effects.

Nothing has developed yet as of 6 months of mass inoculations world wide except TTS and mild short term aftereffects. The science is fairly sound in how the Vaccines work and their long term effects, even to the point that vaccination whilst pregnant is allowed. The later being a significant pointer that they are very confident that no 3 eyed and 10 legged babies are coming.

The sacrifice is made by both sides, both "sacrifice" the lives of soldiers to progress their own needs, so for some greater good, whether its in defense or aggression. The point is a Sacrifice is a choice you make that is final and binding to the cause. You can't sacrifice money or income for instance, that is a miss-use of the idea. You can exchange income/cash for something, but you can get that same cash back later should you wish. A person dies and you cant get that exact person back, their thoughts, memory or future deeds are erased at that point, but if they died for no reason it's also not a sacrifice. Same as most living things, so you could sacrifice an animal for the good of the herd if its loss had some point or improved (or perceived improved) life for the rest. Therefore I don't see isolating, or dieing of covid as a sacrifice, both are preventable and not necessary with the right path and controls.

And this just proves your intelligence does not rise above the insult capabilities of a 5 year old. And offers no counter argument to prove you have the ability to comprehend or debate what is being said here.

ADE is not new science but kind of Biology 101 actually and something that will be considered and watched through all the process of design, development and (full) approval of any vaccine.
There you go, a study about subjects participating in trials being properly informed about risks ;
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33113270/

Cheers.

Which has nothing to do with "your freedoms"

As for the rest of your response, like I said, we don't know that yet.

Ah ok, that was just an example, yes, not the overall ideal. I mean an opposition soldier could sacrifice his life so his civilisation could conquer and oppress yours. I was more referring to laying down or be willing to die for your ideal.

It’s going really well in NSW, isn’t it. Glad to see Bunnings is still open for all that essential DIY. And a man in his 20s has just died from it…, looks like us oldies are the only ones that can die from it.

Not any more, we're all vaccinated :)

Day after Day she keeps saying Delta is like no other. Meanwhile Genie back in the bottle again down in Dan land today.

Newcastle is on the verge of falling over now. Should have protected the regions, but didn’t. She is failing the people of the regions here.

I find it strange the sudden death of a 20 something year old from covid is being referred to the coroner.

From the NSW coroner:

Deaths as a result COVID-19 are regarded as a natural cause death and therefore it is expected that in most cases a Death Certificate will be issued and the death is not reported to the Coroner. It is however anticipated that there will be instances where a deceased has not been diagnosed with carrying the virus and may have displayed symptoms of COVID-19 and a Death Certificate is not issued. As with any case where a Death Certificate is not issued, the death is reportable to the Coroner.
Link

What could the reasoning behind it be? My inner conspiracy theorist is screaming, 'died with covid, not of it'

*Prepares for head to be bitten off*

I don't see anything wrong with being skeptical about why the coroner should get involved. It may well be because of the issues around covid they want to be certain of the cause. The only thing that could be gained is that he was proved to have died of some other cause, that is not covid. It would not 'be in the governments favor' to prove it not. As this would be used as argument against vaccination of that group and convolute the situation. There is always the possibility that someone has done something criminal here or malpractice and blamed covid.

The 20 year old was covid positive and unvaccinated. He was in home quarantine and being seen daily be medical staff, I believe a nurse. I imagine the coroner is being involved due to what must have been a significant, rapid deterioration in their condition and because they were under medical care.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...-08-662513.pdf

This was released in March 2021.


“with the implications for long-COVID post SARS-CoV-2 also considered.”

I thought all deaths where the deceased is alone at the time of death are referred to the coroner? I don't see why this is odd at all.

Pretty sure that depends on which state you are in, NSW I have no idea. But from the link it seems that if no one attends to produce a death certificate that's most likely the case. However this individual has already been attributed a death cause by the look of it. Just reading the news it says un-vaccinated and one of two in the house, the 2nd has been moved to hospital.

Police will always attend when a death occurs at home. If a death certificate is issued and presented then barring any other suspicious circumstances the coroner will not become involved.
Since the cause of this death is clearly being investigated, then perhaps NSW Health reporting it as a Covid death at this time is inappropriate.