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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

Ladloy 19th Jul 2020 08:58


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10841061)
You mean the same guy who stood in front of the media and said "why would you want to go to SA"?

The same guy who told everyone not to go to Anzac day, but then allowed thousands to protest for the black lives matter movement? Not only allowed it, but directly said no one will be fined.

The same guy who allowed private security guards to monitor hotel quarantine guests?

The list goes on! He should have been sacked months ago.

Were you saying the same when 3000 people were allowed off a cruise ship in Sydney which killed 30 people? NSW reported 18 cases today. They're only 3 weeks behind Vic. I hope to see you screaming from the rooftops that Gladys should be sacked when we see NSW hit the second wave and we are at 100+ daily new cases.

Rashid Bacon 19th Jul 2020 09:02


What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics......
There's no playbook for pandemic's, but there sure is culpability about ensuring guards at hotels do the job they are supposed to do. If he had managed that right (as they seem to have done in every other state) we would not be in this calamitous situation now.

Why are people continually apologising for this clown ??

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 19th Jul 2020 09:04


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10841066)
What can Dan do. Lockdown the sick, and get the healthy back to work. I have been saying that since March.
With this new mask policy, all borders, all states, should open up on Thursday. If they don't what are we waiting for?
Four more weeks of this, people are starting to bleed from the inside. I'm starting to crack myself. Sorry if I upset you though I'm over this.

ahh, the ‘lock down the sick’ idea! Sounds beautiful in its simplicity, but like most issues, it’s more complex than that.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....outputType=amp

I was also thinking along these lines at the beginning of the pandemic (for the sake of my career) but unfortunately an objective analysis of all facts showed this isn’t possible.

Add to that, I was in the ‘its just a flu’ camp for the first few weeks too! Some of my quotes certainly haven’t aged well.

thisishardtochoose 19th Jul 2020 09:06


Originally Posted by normanton (Post 10841061)
You mean the same guy who stood in front of the media and said "why would you want to go to SA"?

The same guy who told everyone not to go to Anzac day, but then allowed thousands to protest for the black lives matter movement? Not only allowed it, but directly said no one will be fined.

The same guy who allowed private security guards to monitor hotel quarantine guests?

The list goes on! He should have been sacked months ago.

1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

2. As far as I remember he explicitly said to not go to those protests. All the other major cities in Australia had these protests (much bigger than Melb in some cities) but no transmission and even in Melbourne it has proven to be very low cases which are not linked in any way shape or form. So no you cannot blame the increase of cases on BLM protests.

3. Private Security guards have been used widely across all the other states as well. NSW had caught some sleeping on the job. The only reason anyone has any sort of a problem with this is because some idiot couldn't keep it in his pants. This idiot didn't have the brain space to compute that these people were being isolated for some reason.

Then there were families who decided the rules that were in place didn't exist for them, people even thought regardless of having being diagnosed with this disease they were allowed to go visit their family.

Honestly, yes Dan could have done things better but in my opinion majority of the blame lies with the people of Victoria (including I). I for one would not want Dan's job and I am pretty sure nor would anyone on this thread or the opposition party (thank god they aren't in power).

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 19th Jul 2020 09:08


Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose (Post 10841088)
1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

2. As far as I remember he explicitly said to not go to those protests. All the other major cities in Australia had these protests (much bigger than Melb in some cities) but no transmission and even in Melbourne it has proven to be very low cases which are not linked in any way shape or form. So no you cannot blame the increase of cases on BLM protests.

3. Private Security guards have been used widely across all the other states as well. NSW had caught some sleeping on the job. The only reason anyone has any sort of a problem with this is because some idiot couldn't keep it in his pants. This idiot didn't have the brain space to compute that these people were being isolated for some reason.

Then there were families who decided the rules that were in place didn't exist for them, people even thought regardless of having being diagnosed with this disease they were allowed to go visit their family.

Honestly, yes Dan could have done things better but in my opinion majority of the blame lies with the people of Victoria (including I). I for one would not want Dan's job and I am pretty sure nor would anyone on this thread or the opposition party (thank god they aren't in power).

This is too rational for PPRUNE.

please take you logical/radical ideas elsewhere!

Rashid Bacon 19th Jul 2020 09:15

As far as the protests go - were people seriously going to take his advice and "not go". Clearly not.

Hotel guards - In other states there was much more supervision. Also ask Dan the man about the security contracts that were offered to several companies who refused as the money on offer wouldn't cover costs. You get what you pay for. In the end, he paid for crap and got exactly that.

It's reasonable to expect prudent and sensible leadership with adequate processes to manage and monitor this sort of stuff. External assistance should have been here in much greater numbers weeks and months ago.

Now it may be months before even domestic borders fully open.

Xeptu 19th Jul 2020 09:29

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....362c1ba6aa.jpg

currawong 19th Jul 2020 09:35

Emulate the successful.

Its not that hard...


Boe787 19th Jul 2020 10:05

Taiwan the most successful....no lockdown.....masks mandatory in public and on public transport
masks readily available....eg 711 stores and subsidised by government according to my mate there.
25 million people on an island half the size of Tasmania, 7 deaths and around 430 cases.

thisishardtochoose 19th Jul 2020 11:40


Originally Posted by Rashid Bacon (Post 10841095)
As far as the protests go - were people seriously going to take his advice and "not go". Clearly not.

Hotel guards - In other states there was much more supervision. Also ask Dan the man about the security contracts that were offered to several companies who refused as the money on offer wouldn't cover costs. You get what you pay for. In the end, he paid for crap and got exactly that.

It's reasonable to expect prudent and sensible leadership with adequate processes to manage and monitor this sort of stuff. External assistance should have been here in much greater numbers weeks and months ago.

Now it may be months before even domestic borders fully open.

1. Didn't the NSW government try make the protests illegal yet the courts over ruled the decision? I can guarantee you if Dan had tried to do the same thing you all would be complaint about "loss of democracy". Damned if you Damned if you don't.

2. Can you guarantee that with more supervision this idiot security guard would not have slept with the person? Didn't stop the guards from sleeping with all this "extra supervision" in NSW did it?

3. You'll see when Australians start embracing/normalising wearing of masks domestic travel will return sooner than later. But it's people like Turnleft080 who will make it very much difficult to do so costing us all our own jobs and livelihoods then in turn complain about losing jobs and livelihoods.

dr dre 19th Jul 2020 11:47


Originally Posted by currawong (Post 10841111)
Emulate the successful.

Its not that hard...

Here's some more data. Compared with the infection rates of East Asian nations that I posted in post #469 there's one outlier, Singapore. That nation had traditionally had a policy of discouraging their citizens from wearing masks. It's infection rate is currently 8000 per 1mil, putting it into the territory of Western nations. They have since reversed their policy on mask wearing in April, and have suffered a decline in infections since.

We really should be looking to our fellow members of the Asia-Pacific and fighting the pandemic as they successfully have, not how it's being fought in countries we traditionally considered as more similar (cough USA/UK cough).

thenavman 19th Jul 2020 11:54


Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose (Post 10841088)
1. Why would you go to SA? The reason SA escaped from getting high number of cases is quite literally because no one goes there in my opinion. QLD, NSW, VIC got most of the cases purely for the fact that these 3 states get more international travellers hence more people carrying the virus. Note up until recently these were the only 3 states that were taking in any form of Repatriation flights.

They actually did pretty well over in SA if you look at the case numbers per capita. At the start of the pandemic they had the 2nd highest number of cases per capita and even now have had higher number of historical cases per capita than QLD, WA and NT. They had very high rates of testing and good contact tracing that got some genuine community transmission under control early on. Victoria on the other hand had very low rates of testing until the recent outbreak.

Bend alot 19th Jul 2020 12:06


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10841201)
Here's some more data. Compared with the infection rates of East Asian nations that I posted in post #469 there's one outlier, Singapore. That nation had traditionally had a policy of discouraging their citizens from wearing masks. It's infection rate is currently 8000 per 1mil, putting it into the territory of Western nations. They have since reversed their policy on mask wearing in April, and have suffered a decline in infections since.

We really should be looking to our fellow members of the Asia-Pacific and fighting the pandemic as they successfully have, not how it's being fought in countries we traditionally considered as more similar (cough USA/UK cough).

Singapore had enviable rates even within Asia - Expat workers were and are still the downfall in "infection" rates. Death rates that are very close to the top and exceptionally low even within Asia.

And personally I trust Singapore's reported cases of infection and death rates more than some other Asian numbers reports

42... 19th Jul 2020 12:42


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10841049)
why sure there is. Attached is the playbook commissioned by the Obama administration which shouldn’t be too hard to adopt to local needs. Of course the idiot Trump ignored all of it because: Obama

https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...c-Playbook.pdf

Oh, so please don't ignore while the plan was in place, it was never funded: Obama. To busy giving phones to his voters.

Sunfish 19th Jul 2020 13:05

Private security guards were used in Melbourne because Minister Pakula is allegedly beholden to their union, at least according to the Liberals. Political correctness prevented reaching out to racial and religious non english speaking minorities as well.

The result is that the vector in Victoria has been the low paid immigrant workforce. Security guards, meat workers, and now assistants in aged care centers.

‘’It’s now about to go through prisons. Victoria police by the way has SFA masks available at present, so they can’t do much either.

-41 19th Jul 2020 13:12


Originally Posted by 42... (Post 10841243)
Oh, so please don't ignore while the plan was in place, it was never funded: Obama. To busy giving phones to his voters.

Your facts won't work here. Suggest you study the recent events in Portland, such a glowing example of the Left. Hasn't Fauci been in charge of pandemic response since hmmmmmm 1984? but yeah its all orange mans fault, Facebook tells me so.

Turnleft080 19th Jul 2020 20:19

So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.

rattman 19th Jul 2020 21:18


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10841484)
So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.



Ahhh yeah the chemtrails, antivaxor who is selling his own formulations that have 'excitotoxins' to promote regrowth of the brain

https://vaccineconspiracytheorist.**...-blaylock.html

blubak 19th Jul 2020 22:10


Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose (Post 10841019)
What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics, I sincerely hope we never have to go through one of these ever again but cut the man some slack. Not one other person would want to be in his position right now.

Realistically do you think he likes having to do all this??
Its easy for others to write on here & criticise but overall we should consider ourselves lucky we have someone who cares & is doing his best.
Yes of course hes made mistakes but is there anyone who hasnt.
Just on the subject of the BLM protestors-where are they all now?
Oh thats right,they are trying to find another reason to protest about now,the BLM issue has gone away,not important any more.

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 19th Jul 2020 22:23


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10841484)
So Dan wants us to wear a mask while driving.

They found that about a third of the workers developed headaches with use of the mask, most had preexisting headaches that were worsened by the mask wearing, and 60% required pain medications for relief. As to the cause of the headaches, while straps and pressure from the mask could be causative, the bulk of the evidence points toward hypoxia and/or hypercapnia as the cause. That is, a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia). It is known that the N95 mask, if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%, which can lead to a loss of consciousness, as happened to the hapless fellow driving around alone in his car wearing an N95 mask, causing him to pass out, and to crash his car and sustain injuries. I am sure that we have several cases of elderly individuals or any person with poor lung function passing out, hitting their head. This, of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


I wish the that F wit turnleft would just POQ and just shut up he does not know what he is talking about. He is a terrible rat spreading all sorts of horse droppings.
Thanks Thisishardtochoose. Drive safely all and good health.

Don’t surgeons wear masks for hours at a time?

if it really had the kind of effect you’re suggesting the entire medical industry would be screwed

Ragnor 19th Jul 2020 22:55


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10841550)
Just on the subject of the BLM protestors-where are they all now?
Oh thats right,they are trying to find another reason to protest about now,the BLM issue has gone away,not important any more.


No you’re wrong! They’re planning another BLM protest in Hyde park Sydney this weekend NSW Police currently trying to have it blocked in the Supreme Court as we speak, if it does go ahead the NSW Police commissioner said this morning he will instruct his officers to issue infringement for breached social distancing rules, if they issue 10000 fines then so be it.

These BLM protester are idiots they’re doing more harm than good for the cause they represent.

compressor stall 19th Jul 2020 23:43

But IIRC the ban for the BLM protest was overturned in NSW courts - which is actually gives more validity to those wanting to protest.

Dan and his Vic colleagues said repeatedly "Don't Go etc", but stopped short of banning it, most likely due to legal advice that the ban would be overturned, emboldening the protesters' position.

On eyre 20th Jul 2020 02:59

One can but hope these protests go ahead sans masks with a few superspreaders in attendance and let Darwin’s logic take effect.

JustinHeywood 20th Jul 2020 03:21


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10841484)

...This [mask wearing] , of course, can lead to death.

Dr. Russell Blaylock, author of The Blaylock Wellness Report newsletter, is a nationally recognized board-certified neurosurgeon, health practitioner, author, and lecturer.


So, I googled Dr Blaylock. The first hit is "pseudoscience peddler" - hardly a credible source since he's also an ant-vaxxer and subscribes, it seems, to most conspiracy theories.

Quoting people like him does not strengthen ANY argument, in fact it diminishes it. .


currawong 20th Jul 2020 05:57

Yep, the other link rates a mention here -

Websites Publishing False Coronavirus Information:

https://www.newsguardtech.com/corona...acking-center/

:rolleyes:

Buster Hyman 20th Jul 2020 07:20


Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose (Post 10841019)
What would you like dan to do? There's no playbook for dealing with Pandemics,

...except for this one, originally written in 2014. https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/519F9392797E2DDCCA257D47001B9948/$File/w-AHMPPI-2019.PDF

...or this Victorian one from 2015. https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/emerg...emic-influenza

You have to remember, there's thousands of Fat Cats in the VPS all dying to write a memo, or a Business Case, or a Business Continuity Plan, any one of which deals with a multitude of foreseeable disasters, including Pandemics. (Been there, seen that!)

wheels_down 21st Jul 2020 06:22

QF group are very edgy to get going.

Today they announced the next phase of Melbourne expansion. The day after lockdown ends.

They also released the Queensland schedule the day after also.

All these people given false hope about travelling to QLD, will they be given refunds or credits when they are told they are not going. Perhaps this is some form of ploy to get people turning their savings into credits within the QF group?

Madness if they think she is opening the borders up the day after.

Xeptu 22nd Jul 2020 23:20

Well what a difference a few days has made. We are losing the containment battle and we can blame that on the attitudes of the few that think this is a nothingness and determined to blatantly continue doing their own thing with reckless abandonment.
The chances of any return to some sort of normality in the next 6 months is lost. All eyes on Queensland and the ASX.

hoss58 23rd Jul 2020 00:58

It may well end up that Melbourne goes down the herd immunity path just by circumstance the way covid is spreading.

Ragnor 23rd Jul 2020 01:04

I think the herd immunity could be debunked, President of Brazil has tested positive for a second time to Covid-19.

Australopithecus 23rd Jul 2020 01:15

There needs to be a mandatory custodial sentence for anyone shown to have been at large while knowingly infected. And it should be retroactive to include Shaggs Security too.

hoss58 23rd Jul 2020 01:52

Totally agree. You only have to look at Sweden. Just noting that unless they can get it under control more people than not may get the virus even though herd immunity is not what they are trying to achieve.

novice110 23rd Jul 2020 02:20

It will be a long time before 'more people than not' get this virus in Victoria !

Total cases under 7000 in a population of 6.3 million.

Other estimates from serology tests puts it at around 2% of the population currently. (Dr Chant NSW CHO comments)


Stickshift3000 23rd Jul 2020 02:20


Originally Posted by hoss58 (Post 10843921)
It may well end up that Melbourne goes down the herd immunity path just by circumstance the way covid is spreading.

There have been approximately 6000 cases in the Melbourne area (the majority of these have since recovered), for a population of approximately 5,000,000.

0.12% of the population has been confirmed to have had the virus.

Basically, stuff all of the Melbourne population has been infected. Herd immunity would not be achievable...

jrfsp 23rd Jul 2020 02:22

Comes back to domestic travel is continuing to reduce / stricter borders rather than going the other way.
Cant see domestic travel until almost 2021 now

ECAMACTIONSCOMPLETE 23rd Jul 2020 02:54


Originally Posted by Stickshift3000 (Post 10843950)
There have been approximately 6000 cases in the Melbourne area (the majority of these have since recovered), for a population of approximately 5,000,000.

0.12% of the population has been confirmed to have had the virus.

Basically, stuff all of the Melbourne population has been infected. Herd immunity would not be achievable...

plus the R number is 1

thisishardtochoose 23rd Jul 2020 04:05

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...staff/12481774

Oh damn this will also be Dan Andrews fault :ugh::ugh::ugh:

DHC8 Driver 23rd Jul 2020 04:09


Originally Posted by Boe787 (Post 10841133)
Taiwan the most successful....no lockdown.....masks mandatory in public and on public transport
masks readily available....eg 711 stores and subsidised by government according to my mate there.
25 million people on an island half the size of Tasmania, 7 deaths and around 430 cases.


I’m in Taiwan and all you say is 100% true except about masks being compulsory. That has been relaxed recently - still required on public transport (MRT, buses, aircraft etc.). Some restaurants still taking temperature. But overall life is very normal here - there never has been a lockdown because the government secured the borders very early.

currawong 23rd Jul 2020 09:35

Pity the military isn't involved with the quarantine system here.

NZ did, at least at management level, when others showed they were not up to the task.

The ones I see are doing a pretty fair job bolstering law enforcement.

They know how to guard stuff.

They are already paid for.

Cock ups are not tolerated.

Whats not to like?

Green.Dot 23rd Jul 2020 09:49


Originally Posted by thisishardtochoose (Post 10843992)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...staff/12481774

Oh damn this will also be Dan Andrews fault :ugh::ugh::ugh:

I say you nailed it mate.

If we have to blame one person, it is him indeed. He snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And every Australian should be angry. Angry for the next decade even.

I hope his name lives on as the biggest cluster$&@# in the history of Australian Politics. That would make me happier.


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